Re: Daily Practice
- --- In email@example.com,
"dan330033 <dan330033@y...>" <dan330033@y...> wrote:
> Hi G --G: yes i agree with all that you are saying on this subject....
> I don't think Judi is saying at all
> "just do nothing and believe you are already
> I think she is saying you must come to the end
> of your rope, the end of your adventure and
> process of becoming, of getting somewhere else,
> other than you are.
> Not saying, "I am fine as I am," but looking
> into what is going on when you attempt to
> say that -- what you are doing when you
> try to reassure yourself like that.
> Her critique points out, to me, that
> often "meditation practice" becomes a kind
> of placebo, someting to believe in so as
> to feel good about yourself eventually
> getting somewhere.
> She wants to undermine this kind of complacency,
> which is really a kind of supression.
> Meditation as formal practice easily lends itself
> to supression and belief that the status quo
> is working just fine.
> She is saying truth is here when the status quo
> is shaken to its roots and drops away.
> I feel she is talking about the heart of meditation,
> which formal practices presented by organizations
> often disguise.
> Gautama didn't say, "I am going to meditate real
> good, because meditation is good for your health
> and well-being, and I want to be healthy and feel
> Gautama did say, "I am going to sit here and not
> leave until I know, truly know directly. Nothing
> else matters to me, my will to live and thrive
> has no value, my family and power don't matter,
> there is just nothing else I can possibly
> do at this point."
> The suggestions, rationales, practices, and so on
> that various authorities had offered him, and
> which he had mastered were of no avail.
> Similar indications are shown by such as Lao Tzu,
> Jesus, I'm sure many others, but I don't
> catalogue them.
> So, for me, Judi is indicating that the heart of
> meditation has nothing to do with accepting
> what someone else tells you meditation practice
> is and should be. And she's not saying just
> do what you feel like doing, don't worry,
> you're enlightened already.
> You can't know what already always is the case,
> until you're attempt to provide other things
> which you want to be the case drops away.
> That attempt can be "I'm going to just be,
> and enjoy that I'm already enlightened,"
> or "I'm going to meditate real good, so
> I can learn more and more about who I am --
> isn't this great?"
> The heart of meditation is utter self-confrontation
> that is direct, that is the falling away of
> the unreal anchoring, that someone else can't
> give you.
> When you talk about your experience, it seems you're
> sometimes saying similar things.
> Frankly, the outward differences of form of how you
> teach and how Judi teaches doesn't matter as much to me as
> the heart of knowing, in which self-deceit
> breaks apart ...
> You deserve a break today,
> Dan :-)
although meditation can lead to one confronting the self it may
also be used as a placebo.... one cannot say that it is either
right or wrong ... as with everything there are two sides of the
same coin.... no matter what method one uses as long as an
"I" prevails its not over yet..... i think we are all pointing in the
same end direction just taking different scenery along the way.....
thankyou for explaining more where judi is heading ....
shanti om ...g...
- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "tosime"
> I am still a few days behind. However this quote seemed anice fit for the
> daily practice thread.drives
> Charlotte Joko Beck
> TRUE STORIES ABOUT SITTING
> How old were you when you started meditating?
> Beck: Thirty-nine, forty, somewhere in there.
> Did you have any realization through meditation?
> No. Of course we have realizations, but that's not what really
> Will you say more about that?
> I meet all sorts of people who've had all sorts of experiences
> they're still confused and not doing well in their life.Experiences
> are not enough. My students learn that if they have so-calledthem. I just
> experiences, I really don't care much about hearing about
> tell them, "Yeah, that's OK. Don't hold onto it. And how are youthere.
> getting along with your mother?" Otherwise, they get stuck
> It's not the important thing in practice.instead of
> And may I ask you what is?
> Learning to deal with one's personal, egotistical self. That's the
> work. Very, very difficult.
> There seems to be a payoff, though, because you feel alive
> dead.your core
> I wouldn't say a payoff. You're returning to the source, you might
> say-what you always were, but which was severely covered by
> belief and all its systems. And when those get weaker, you dofeel
> joy. I mean, then it's no big deal to do the dishes and clean upthe
> house and go to work and things like that.of
> Doing the dishes is a great meditation-especially if you hate it.
> Well, if your mind wanders to other things while your doing the
> dishes, just return it to the dishes. Meditation isn't something
> special. It's not a special way of being. It's simply being aware
> what is going on.in
> Does sitting meditation prepare the ground to do that?
> Sure. It gives you the strength to face the more complex things
> your life. You're not meeting anything much when your sittingexcept
> your little mind. That's relatively easy when compared to someof the
> complex situation we have to live out way through. Sitting givesyou
> the ability to work with your life.Books are
> I read your books.
> Oh you read. Well, give up reading, OK?
> Give up reading your books?
> Well, they're all tight. Read them once and that's enough.
> useful. But some people read for fifty years, you know. And theyboom,
> haven't begun their practice.
> How would you describe self-discovery?
> You're really just an ongoing set of events: boom, boom, boom,
> boom, one after the other. The awareness is keeping up withthose
> events, seeing your life unfolding as it is-not your ideas of it,not
> your pictures of it. See what I mean?way..."
> How would you define meditation?
> Awareness of what, mentally, physically.
> Can you please complete the following sentence for me. "The
> experience of meditation is..."
> "...awareness of what is."
> "Meditative awareness has changes my life in the following
> "It has changed my life in the direction of it being more
> more satisfactory, more joyful, and more useful, probably."Though I
> don't think much in those terms. I don't wake up in the morninggoing
> thinking, I'm going to be useful. I really think about what I'm
> to have for breakfast.with all
> "The one thing awareness has taught me that I want to share
> people is that..."out
> I don't want to share anything with all people.
> Who do you want to share with?
> Nobody. I just live my life. I don't go around wanting to share
> something. That's extra.
> Could you talk about that a little bit?
> Well, there's a little shade of piety that creeps into practice. You
> know, "I have this wonderful practice, I want to share it with
> everyone." There's an error in that. You could probably figure it
> I think that's something I need to learn.
> You and I know there's nothing that's going to make me run
> faster than somebody who comes around and wants to behelpful. You
> know what I mean? I don't want people to be helpful to me. Ijust
> want to live my own life.G: i agree with this in the way that *realizations* and
> Do you think you share yourself?
> Yeah, but who's that?
*experience* is used these are transitory and fleeting.... i call
them insights and phenomena....
this is quite different than *Realization* which blows out
conceptual insights and phenomena ....
shanti om ..g..