Re: Daily Practice-Dan
> >>>G: of course to you meditation remains a needed practice....
> Bg-I was quite clear. Meditation is needed by anyone because of
> ceaseless pressures presented everyday to everyone.DB-You aren't separate from those pressures.
You are how they arise.
Bg-- I guess you are speaking of the origin of pressures. The
pressures (the world )arise with the sense of "I" according to
Ramana Maharshi. Buddha said "desire" and Freud said "sex". Ken
Wilber said look at the spectrum of Consciousness and pick the world
view that applies to dualism you wish to address (paraphrase by Bg).
DB-Combatting them with meditation doesn't
resolve your relationship with them.
It just gives you a buffer.
Bg--What I see is that your ideas and the way you express them is an
active meditation. One that is not available to some. Putting a
negative on the methods others use is not possible in your venue but
it can be constued that way very easily. I don't see it that way. I
see you as discussing the issue but some may not.
In that vein the issue was whether meditation is worthwhile, and not
whether it resolves or is a buffer. Just to be clear.
> >>>so you feel that it will always need to remain in place....DB--Nothing needs to be added to "what is" -- this
> Bg-Yes meditation needs to remain a daily activity for everyone.
is not a soup in lack of salt.
Bg--The issue was not whether to add something but whether to drop
something because it is no longer needed. As if the soup would taste
the same without the salt.
> >>>we are not really saying such different things... one needsDB--Of course there is such a time.
> not sit in a certain position to be within a stilled and open
> mind state that is called meditation.... there comes a time
> when this is ongoing...
> Bg--There is no time when you cannot fall from grace. Spontaneous
> meditation is also subject to cessation.
It is now.
Bg--Now has nothing to do with time. Can you imagine a time when
there is not now?
DB--Whatever is subject to cessation is a phenomenon
with a beginning and end.
Bg--You are looking at it in reverse most likely because of the
language and the way it is used. Spontaneous meditation means in the
sense I was referring to it, the cessation of confusing the mind for
reality. While that is reality too, when it ceases, what we call
spontaneous meditation occurs. From the viewpoint of the mind the
meditation ceased and the pressures returned. The way it is was
given in the beginning was correct in reference to the way it was
used. But thanks for the non-dual perspective too.
DB--Knowing is that you are without beginning.
Bg--I have no problem with saying things to people who would not
understand it if they did not it already. You never know who might
agree with you. But if you do it too much you stopped ceasing. :)
This sure is fun.
- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "tosime"
> I am still a few days behind. However this quote seemed anice fit for the
> daily practice thread.drives
> Charlotte Joko Beck
> TRUE STORIES ABOUT SITTING
> How old were you when you started meditating?
> Beck: Thirty-nine, forty, somewhere in there.
> Did you have any realization through meditation?
> No. Of course we have realizations, but that's not what really
> Will you say more about that?
> I meet all sorts of people who've had all sorts of experiences
> they're still confused and not doing well in their life.Experiences
> are not enough. My students learn that if they have so-calledthem. I just
> experiences, I really don't care much about hearing about
> tell them, "Yeah, that's OK. Don't hold onto it. And how are youthere.
> getting along with your mother?" Otherwise, they get stuck
> It's not the important thing in practice.instead of
> And may I ask you what is?
> Learning to deal with one's personal, egotistical self. That's the
> work. Very, very difficult.
> There seems to be a payoff, though, because you feel alive
> dead.your core
> I wouldn't say a payoff. You're returning to the source, you might
> say-what you always were, but which was severely covered by
> belief and all its systems. And when those get weaker, you dofeel
> joy. I mean, then it's no big deal to do the dishes and clean upthe
> house and go to work and things like that.of
> Doing the dishes is a great meditation-especially if you hate it.
> Well, if your mind wanders to other things while your doing the
> dishes, just return it to the dishes. Meditation isn't something
> special. It's not a special way of being. It's simply being aware
> what is going on.in
> Does sitting meditation prepare the ground to do that?
> Sure. It gives you the strength to face the more complex things
> your life. You're not meeting anything much when your sittingexcept
> your little mind. That's relatively easy when compared to someof the
> complex situation we have to live out way through. Sitting givesyou
> the ability to work with your life.Books are
> I read your books.
> Oh you read. Well, give up reading, OK?
> Give up reading your books?
> Well, they're all tight. Read them once and that's enough.
> useful. But some people read for fifty years, you know. And theyboom,
> haven't begun their practice.
> How would you describe self-discovery?
> You're really just an ongoing set of events: boom, boom, boom,
> boom, one after the other. The awareness is keeping up withthose
> events, seeing your life unfolding as it is-not your ideas of it,not
> your pictures of it. See what I mean?way..."
> How would you define meditation?
> Awareness of what, mentally, physically.
> Can you please complete the following sentence for me. "The
> experience of meditation is..."
> "...awareness of what is."
> "Meditative awareness has changes my life in the following
> "It has changed my life in the direction of it being more
> more satisfactory, more joyful, and more useful, probably."Though I
> don't think much in those terms. I don't wake up in the morninggoing
> thinking, I'm going to be useful. I really think about what I'm
> to have for breakfast.with all
> "The one thing awareness has taught me that I want to share
> people is that..."out
> I don't want to share anything with all people.
> Who do you want to share with?
> Nobody. I just live my life. I don't go around wanting to share
> something. That's extra.
> Could you talk about that a little bit?
> Well, there's a little shade of piety that creeps into practice. You
> know, "I have this wonderful practice, I want to share it with
> everyone." There's an error in that. You could probably figure it
> I think that's something I need to learn.
> You and I know there's nothing that's going to make me run
> faster than somebody who comes around and wants to behelpful. You
> know what I mean? I don't want people to be helpful to me. Ijust
> want to live my own life.G: i agree with this in the way that *realizations* and
> Do you think you share yourself?
> Yeah, but who's that?
*experience* is used these are transitory and fleeting.... i call
them insights and phenomena....
this is quite different than *Realization* which blows out
conceptual insights and phenomena ....
shanti om ..g..