- ... Bg-I was quite clear. Meditation is needed by anyone because of the ceaseless pressures presented everyday to everyone. ... Bg-Yes meditation needs toMessage 1 of 79 , Feb 1, 2003View Source
>>>G: of course to you meditation remains a needed practice....Bg-I was quite clear. Meditation is needed by anyone because of the
ceaseless pressures presented everyday to everyone.
>>>so you feel that it will always need to remain in place....Bg-Yes meditation needs to remain a daily activity for everyone.
>>>we are not really saying such different things... one needsnot sit in a certain position to be within a stilled and open
mind state that is called meditation.... there comes a time
when this is ongoing...
Bg--There is no time when you cannot fall from grace. Spontaneous
meditation is also subject to cessation.
>>>>it is no longer a *practice* thatneeds to be accessed by sitting and attempting to put it into
place.... it is an ongoing spontaneous reality ......
many scriptures speak to this as well.... perhaps you just
have not encountered it as yet and therefore deny its
validity .... but i can say that Yes it can and does exist ....
Bg--My experience of spontaneous meditation, dhyana, is sporadic. It
could not be spontaneous if one did not fall away from it. I did not
deny the existence of spontaneous meditation. I denied that anyone
goes past the need to meditate.
>>>you of course may accept that or not ....in either case it will
only be known as truth once you yourself encounter and
Bg--As you say we do not differ too much in what we are saying. One
thing, though, I have noted, and I believe you will agree because I
think you have a grasp on the essentials, "I" am not resting in
>>>enjoy your journey.....minus the delusionary plays of mind and ego...
>>>to nowhere to go but finding the here and the Now as it IS........
>>>shanti om ...g..In my post on Patanjali (#5)I mentioned a level he calls virama
pratyaya. It is between object oriented samadhi (sabija, which is
sporadic) and nirbija samadhi (objectless). P. calls this
the "other" type. He says it is possible to be caught there.
I am not saying virama pratyaya is not reality. And I am not picking
on you Ganga, as different than anyone else about this. The point is
that to go beyond that sporadic level, efforts need to be redoubled
and not treated dismissively. I have a lot of respect for all the
people on this list. We would not be here if we did not care about
the same thing. I am here to discuss it and I am willing to listen
with my heart to what you have to say. It would not be a discussion
- ... nice fit for the ... drives ... and ... Experiences ... them. I just ... there. ... instead of ... your core ... feel ... the ... of ... in ... except ...Message 79 of 79 , Feb 3, 2003View Source--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "tosime"
> I am still a few days behind. However this quote seemed anice fit for the
> daily practice thread.drives
> Charlotte Joko Beck
> TRUE STORIES ABOUT SITTING
> How old were you when you started meditating?
> Beck: Thirty-nine, forty, somewhere in there.
> Did you have any realization through meditation?
> No. Of course we have realizations, but that's not what really
> Will you say more about that?
> I meet all sorts of people who've had all sorts of experiences
> they're still confused and not doing well in their life.Experiences
> are not enough. My students learn that if they have so-calledthem. I just
> experiences, I really don't care much about hearing about
> tell them, "Yeah, that's OK. Don't hold onto it. And how are youthere.
> getting along with your mother?" Otherwise, they get stuck
> It's not the important thing in practice.instead of
> And may I ask you what is?
> Learning to deal with one's personal, egotistical self. That's the
> work. Very, very difficult.
> There seems to be a payoff, though, because you feel alive
> dead.your core
> I wouldn't say a payoff. You're returning to the source, you might
> say-what you always were, but which was severely covered by
> belief and all its systems. And when those get weaker, you dofeel
> joy. I mean, then it's no big deal to do the dishes and clean upthe
> house and go to work and things like that.of
> Doing the dishes is a great meditation-especially if you hate it.
> Well, if your mind wanders to other things while your doing the
> dishes, just return it to the dishes. Meditation isn't something
> special. It's not a special way of being. It's simply being aware
> what is going on.in
> Does sitting meditation prepare the ground to do that?
> Sure. It gives you the strength to face the more complex things
> your life. You're not meeting anything much when your sittingexcept
> your little mind. That's relatively easy when compared to someof the
> complex situation we have to live out way through. Sitting givesyou
> the ability to work with your life.Books are
> I read your books.
> Oh you read. Well, give up reading, OK?
> Give up reading your books?
> Well, they're all tight. Read them once and that's enough.
> useful. But some people read for fifty years, you know. And theyboom,
> haven't begun their practice.
> How would you describe self-discovery?
> You're really just an ongoing set of events: boom, boom, boom,
> boom, one after the other. The awareness is keeping up withthose
> events, seeing your life unfolding as it is-not your ideas of it,not
> your pictures of it. See what I mean?way..."
> How would you define meditation?
> Awareness of what, mentally, physically.
> Can you please complete the following sentence for me. "The
> experience of meditation is..."
> "...awareness of what is."
> "Meditative awareness has changes my life in the following
> "It has changed my life in the direction of it being more
> more satisfactory, more joyful, and more useful, probably."Though I
> don't think much in those terms. I don't wake up in the morninggoing
> thinking, I'm going to be useful. I really think about what I'm
> to have for breakfast.with all
> "The one thing awareness has taught me that I want to share
> people is that..."out
> I don't want to share anything with all people.
> Who do you want to share with?
> Nobody. I just live my life. I don't go around wanting to share
> something. That's extra.
> Could you talk about that a little bit?
> Well, there's a little shade of piety that creeps into practice. You
> know, "I have this wonderful practice, I want to share it with
> everyone." There's an error in that. You could probably figure it
> I think that's something I need to learn.
> You and I know there's nothing that's going to make me run
> faster than somebody who comes around and wants to behelpful. You
> know what I mean? I don't want people to be helpful to me. Ijust
> want to live my own life.G: i agree with this in the way that *realizations* and
> Do you think you share yourself?
> Yeah, but who's that?
*experience* is used these are transitory and fleeting.... i call
them insights and phenomena....
this is quite different than *Realization* which blows out
conceptual insights and phenomena ....
shanti om ..g..