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Re: Daily Practice

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  • G <crystalkundalini@hotmail.com>
    ... medit8ionsociety ... from now till the cows come home and I m sure you can have some wunnerful peaceful experiences, you can even experience oneness with
    Message 1 of 79 , Feb 1, 2003
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
      "judirhodes <judirhodes@z...>" <judirhodes@z...> wrote:
      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
      medit8ionsociety
      > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > > I think it is likely that for 99+% of people, meditation is the
      > > valuable bridge that Ganga speaks of,
      >
      > ******* There really is no bridge, it's either one or the other and
      > never the twain shall meet. "Meditation" is just another act
      > of "doing" or "not doing" which leads nowhere except in circles.
      > Understanding that entire activity, which is all "self" referential
      > is another matter entirely. In other words, you can meditate
      from now till the cows come home and I'm sure you can have
      some wunnerful peaceful experiences, you can even experience
      oneness with god. But understanding, like I said, undermines
      ALL experience, mundane or sublime. It's complete freedom
      from all experiential adventure.
      >
      > Judi

      G: understanding as you like to call it .... or knowing as i call it
      happens in an instant .... first the ground is prepared ... the
      seed is planted .... it ripens.... and falls off of the tree.....

      for myself it was in a split second ... it was a known that blew
      out all the known abouts and concepts ... but without having
      come to a stilled place and absolute surrender it wouldn't have
      happened.... and that surrender wouldn't have taken place
      unless a number a fallacys were pulled away first.... that
      happened through meditation - one pointed focus - being in the
      moment - vipassana - then self enquiry....

      one can walk around saying it is already here and there is
      nothing to do until they are blue in the face and it won't change a
      thing nor awaken them .... you may postulate that it does ...
      you can just accept what is here and still be trapped in the
      delusions of your own creation... it is sad that you are so
      vehement against everything except your view that one should
      simply just give up and accept where they are.... there is a vast
      differance in just giving up and in surrender....

      surrender comes sometimes after years of yes the dreaded
      word *practice* ..... there are many many roads and paths to
      enlightenment ... not one ... just as there are vast amounts of
      differances and variables in seekers and their conditioned
      awarenesses.... the miss judi farm of beating someone into
      submission while attractive to some is not the only alternative....

      there are many ways and means ... what works for one is a
      hinderance to another.... the thing is to find the keys that open
      your awareness and ability to surrender to what IS ... the key to
      unlock the door to walk through and leave the ego "I" behind with
      it's resulting dramas and sufferings.....

      it is easy to sit on the judi throne of disdain and continue to play
      the littany over and over again.... that there is nothing to get...
      and no where to go.... Wonderful it might have worked for you....
      i don't say that it didn't.... but clearly it does not work for everyone
      or else there wouldn't be so many methods and paths that are
      quite viable and remain in place simply because yes they can
      and do work......

      now how many nay sayer posts can you get out of this one.....

      enjoy your circle judi .... watch and around and around she will
      go..... the punch and judi show of disdane for anything
      except just *Wake Up* ..... if it were that easy judi then all
      the people that are not doing anything would already be
      free from suffering... but the fact that they are not disproves
      your path of simply do nothing.....

      shanti om ...g...
    • G <crystalkundalini@hotmail.com>
      ... nice fit for the ... drives ... and ... Experiences ... them. I just ... there. ... instead of ... your core ... feel ... the ... of ... in ... except ...
      Message 79 of 79 , Feb 3, 2003
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tosime"
        <tosime@b...> wrote:
        > I am still a few days behind. However this quote seemed a
        nice fit for the
        > daily practice thread.
        >
        > ...Tony
        >
        > Charlotte Joko Beck
        >
        > TRUE STORIES ABOUT SITTING
        >
        > How old were you when you started meditating?
        >
        > Beck: Thirty-nine, forty, somewhere in there.
        >
        > Did you have any realization through meditation?
        >
        > No. Of course we have realizations, but that's not what really
        drives
        > practice.
        >
        > Will you say more about that?
        >
        > I meet all sorts of people who've had all sorts of experiences
        and
        > they're still confused and not doing well in their life.
        Experiences
        > are not enough. My students learn that if they have so-called
        > experiences, I really don't care much about hearing about
        them. I just
        > tell them, "Yeah, that's OK. Don't hold onto it. And how are you
        > getting along with your mother?" Otherwise, they get stuck
        there.
        > It's not the important thing in practice.
        >
        > And may I ask you what is?
        >
        > Learning to deal with one's personal, egotistical self. That's the
        > work. Very, very difficult.
        >
        > There seems to be a payoff, though, because you feel alive
        instead of
        > dead.
        >
        > I wouldn't say a payoff. You're returning to the source, you might
        > say-what you always were, but which was severely covered by
        your core
        > belief and all its systems. And when those get weaker, you do
        feel
        > joy. I mean, then it's no big deal to do the dishes and clean up
        the
        > house and go to work and things like that.
        >
        > Doing the dishes is a great meditation-especially if you hate it.
        >
        > Well, if your mind wanders to other things while your doing the
        > dishes, just return it to the dishes. Meditation isn't something
        > special. It's not a special way of being. It's simply being aware
        of
        > what is going on.
        >
        > Does sitting meditation prepare the ground to do that?
        >
        > Sure. It gives you the strength to face the more complex things
        in
        > your life. You're not meeting anything much when your sitting
        except
        > your little mind. That's relatively easy when compared to some
        of the
        > complex situation we have to live out way through. Sitting gives
        you
        > the ability to work with your life.
        >
        > I read your books.
        >
        > Oh you read. Well, give up reading, OK?
        >
        > Give up reading your books?
        >
        > Well, they're all tight. Read them once and that's enough.
        Books are
        > useful. But some people read for fifty years, you know. And they
        > haven't begun their practice.
        >
        > How would you describe self-discovery?
        >
        > You're really just an ongoing set of events: boom, boom, boom,
        boom,
        > boom, one after the other. The awareness is keeping up with
        those
        > events, seeing your life unfolding as it is-not your ideas of it,
        not
        > your pictures of it. See what I mean?
        >
        > How would you define meditation?
        >
        > Awareness of what, mentally, physically.
        >
        > Can you please complete the following sentence for me. "The
        > experience of meditation is..."
        >
        > "...awareness of what is."
        >
        > "Meditative awareness has changes my life in the following
        way..."
        >
        > "It has changed my life in the direction of it being more
        harmonious,
        > more satisfactory, more joyful, and more useful, probably."
        Though I
        > don't think much in those terms. I don't wake up in the morning
        > thinking, I'm going to be useful. I really think about what I'm
        going
        > to have for breakfast.
        >
        > "The one thing awareness has taught me that I want to share
        with all
        > people is that..."
        >
        > I don't want to share anything with all people.
        >
        > Who do you want to share with?
        >
        > Nobody. I just live my life. I don't go around wanting to share
        > something. That's extra.
        >
        > Could you talk about that a little bit?
        >
        > Well, there's a little shade of piety that creeps into practice. You
        > know, "I have this wonderful practice, I want to share it with
        > everyone." There's an error in that. You could probably figure it
        out
        > yourself.
        >
        > I think that's something I need to learn.
        >
        > You and I know there's nothing that's going to make me run
        away
        > faster than somebody who comes around and wants to be
        helpful. You
        > know what I mean? I don't want people to be helpful to me. I
        just
        > want to live my own life.
        >
        > Do you think you share yourself?
        >
        > Yeah, but who's that?

        G: i agree with this in the way that *realizations* and
        *experience* is used these are transitory and fleeting.... i call
        them insights and phenomena....
        this is quite different than *Realization* which blows out
        conceptual insights and phenomena ....

        shanti om ..g..
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