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Regarding Patanjali #5

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  • texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@aol.com>
    Hi Everybody: I posted some thoughts on the first type of bliss described by Patanjali in an earlier post. The crux of I.17 seems to be a description of the
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 30, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Everybody:

      I posted some thoughts on the first type of bliss described by
      Patanjali in an earlier post.
      "The crux of I.17 seems to be a description of the first stage of
      bliss after the restriction of the fluctuations. I.18 describes the
      next stage. Later."-bg

      Yoga Sutra translated by Feuerstein:
      I.18 The other type of enstasy (the second stage-bg) has a residuum
      of subliminal-activators; it follows the former, cognitive enstasy
      upon the practice of the presented idea of cessation.
      F. describes the 'presented idea of cessation' as- just in sleep
      there is a presented-idea of 'non-occurrence' so also in the higher
      stages of cognitive enstasy there is an awareness of the gradual
      inhibition of all presented-ideas.

      translated by Iyengar:
      I.18 The void arising in these experiences is another samadhi.
      Hidden inpressions lie dormant, but spring up during moments of
      awareness, creating fluctuations and disturbing the purity of the
      consciousness.
      Iyengar comments- Here Patanjali mentions another state of samadhi in
      beween sabija and nirbija but does not name it. It is experienced
      with the cessation of all functions of the brain, leaving behind only
      the residual samskaras (tendencies). The word used for this state is
      virama pratyaya.

      BG-The first stage of bliss described by P. is object oriented and
      contains a sense of I amness, joy or cognitive awareness. In this
      second stage (I.18), (virama pratyaya), these fluctuation cease but
      the tendencies will arise again after the samadhi. This is not final
      but a transition stage before what is called nirbija samadhi.

      Iyengar
      I.19 In this state, one may experience bodilessness, or become
      merged in nature. This may lead to isolation or to a state of
      loneliness.
      Iyengar explains this by showing that upon awakening from dreamless
      sleep the average person glimpses a non physical state of existence
      and also the state of merging in nature. In sleep these two phases
      remain unconscious until one wakes, whereas evolved souls experience
      them consciously during samadhi. Sleep is a natural condition of
      consciousness; samadhi is a superconscious state.

      Iyengar
      I.20 Practice must be pursued with trust, confidence, vigour, keen
      memory and power of absorption to break this spiritual complacency.
      I. explains with some detail how one can be halted in the progress
      toward the last stage of development (nirbija samadhi) by remaining
      in the stage described in I.18. As does Feuerstein in his commentary.

      Iyengar
      I.21 The goal is near for those who are vigorous and intense in
      practice.

      BG- I take this to mean not to stop the practice that got you there.
      Double up! Honor the pure (unadulterated) and honest in yourself and
      others. Meditate. There is a state of bliss where the tendencies
      will still arise. But one can go past that state, once the method is
      ingrained, if one does not block it. He refers to this later in
      III.51 also, by admonishing against pride, etc.

      This post is what I said I would post on Pantanjali and bliss. To
      jump ahead to book II might clarify something.

      Feuerstein
      II.11 The fluctuations (immediate thoughts-bg) of the causes of
      afflictions (deeper tendencies-bg) are to be overcome by meditative-
      absorption.

      but before that:
      II.10 The causes of affliction, in their subtle form (as a tendency-
      bg), are to be overcome by the process of Involution.

      BG-Involution is the practice of self inquiry, asking "Who am I?".
      Involution means to go back through the Ego, the tendency of
      separateness, to the real Self. Destroying this first tendency is
      what destroys all tendencies at their root.

      The manifestations of these tendencies are overcome or stopped by
      meditation.

      Bliss, consciousness, and what is real.
      Bobby G.
    • tosime
      Hi Bobby, Thanks for posting this. I find it fascinating but I am not sure I understand it all. I know this is asking a lot but could you please give us a
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 30, 2003
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        Hi Bobby,

        Thanks for posting this. I find it fascinating but I am not sure I
        understand it all.

        I know this is asking a lot but could you please give us a simpler version.
        I am thinking of something along the lines of what I could say to my 11 year
        old son - very simple English.

        I recall you came close to this in one of your previous posts...

        "...If I am fearful, then I am remembering something
        I am convinced is scary. It is just a thought. If I have a
        realization about myself or a fantasy it does not transport me to
        that place where it is real. I have to have the thought "me" and put
        me in that place. It all changes in an instant if the telephone
        rings..."

        Except for 'realization' this would come quite close.

        Also, I liked the way you summarized the previous section as an
        introduction.

        Thanks...Tony

        -----Original Message-----
        From: texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@...> [mailto:Bigbobgraham@...]
        Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:45 PM
        To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Regarding Patanjali #5


        Hi Everybody:

        I posted some thoughts on the first type of bliss described by
        Patanjali in an earlier post.
        "The crux of I.17 seems to be a description of the first stage of
        bliss after the restriction of the fluctuations. I.18 describes the
        next stage. Later."-bg

        Yoga Sutra translated by Feuerstein:
        I.18 The other type of enstasy (the second stage-bg) has a residuum
        of subliminal-activators; it follows the former, cognitive enstasy
        upon the practice of the presented idea of cessation.
        F. describes the 'presented idea of cessation' as- just in sleep
        there is a presented-idea of 'non-occurrence' so also in the higher
        stages of cognitive enstasy there is an awareness of the gradual
        inhibition of all presented-ideas.

        translated by Iyengar:
        I.18 The void arising in these experiences is another samadhi.
        Hidden inpressions lie dormant, but spring up during moments of
        awareness, creating fluctuations and disturbing the purity of the
        consciousness.
        Iyengar comments- Here Patanjali mentions another state of samadhi in
        beween sabija and nirbija but does not name it. It is experienced
        with the cessation of all functions of the brain, leaving behind only
        the residual samskaras (tendencies). The word used for this state is
        virama pratyaya.

        BG-The first stage of bliss described by P. is object oriented and
        contains a sense of I amness, joy or cognitive awareness. In this
        second stage (I.18), (virama pratyaya), these fluctuation cease but
        the tendencies will arise again after the samadhi. This is not final
        but a transition stage before what is called nirbija samadhi.

        Iyengar
        I.19 In this state, one may experience bodilessness, or become
        merged in nature. This may lead to isolation or to a state of
        loneliness.
        Iyengar explains this by showing that upon awakening from dreamless
        sleep the average person glimpses a non physical state of existence
        and also the state of merging in nature. In sleep these two phases
        remain unconscious until one wakes, whereas evolved souls experience
        them consciously during samadhi. Sleep is a natural condition of
        consciousness; samadhi is a superconscious state.

        Iyengar
        I.20 Practice must be pursued with trust, confidence, vigour, keen
        memory and power of absorption to break this spiritual complacency.
        I. explains with some detail how one can be halted in the progress
        toward the last stage of development (nirbija samadhi) by remaining
        in the stage described in I.18. As does Feuerstein in his commentary.

        Iyengar
        I.21 The goal is near for those who are vigorous and intense in
        practice.

        BG- I take this to mean not to stop the practice that got you there.
        Double up! Honor the pure (unadulterated) and honest in yourself and
        others. Meditate. There is a state of bliss where the tendencies
        will still arise. But one can go past that state, once the method is
        ingrained, if one does not block it. He refers to this later in
        III.51 also, by admonishing against pride, etc.

        This post is what I said I would post on Pantanjali and bliss. To
        jump ahead to book II might clarify something.

        Feuerstein
        II.11 The fluctuations (immediate thoughts-bg) of the causes of
        afflictions (deeper tendencies-bg) are to be overcome by meditative-
        absorption.

        but before that:
        II.10 The causes of affliction, in their subtle form (as a tendency-
        bg), are to be overcome by the process of Involution.

        BG-Involution is the practice of self inquiry, asking "Who am I?".
        Involution means to go back through the Ego, the tendency of
        separateness, to the real Self. Destroying this first tendency is
        what destroys all tendencies at their root.

        The manifestations of these tendencies are overcome or stopped by
        meditation.

        Bliss, consciousness, and what is real.
        Bobby G.


        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@aol.com>
        Hi Tony: Thanks for the reply. It s no trouble. The terminology is not familar to many. Raja Yoga is called Classical Yoga and Patanjali invented it as far
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 30, 2003
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          Hi Tony:

          Thanks for the reply. It's no trouble. The terminology is not
          familar to many.

          Raja Yoga is called Classical Yoga and Patanjali invented it as far
          as we know. It is about the concepts concerning the mind, its
          functions and attributes. It is not Jnana yoga.

          When you are perfectly still you have the sense of I am. Thoughts do
          not occur then. They could if you let them. As long as the I am is
          current, thoughts are repelled. They try to arise and you know what
          the thought would be if it did arise. But you don't entertain it.
          You are not lost in it and swept into another and another and so on.
          After this is successfully practiced for a few moments the feeling of
          bliss or gladness is known in association with the state of I
          amness. This is object oriented samadhi. The process may take
          awhile to settle into.

          Any object can be used such as a mantra or the breath and so on, as
          long as the object is held steady in the mind.

          After practicing for a while the bliss comes automatically. For me
          it was the sun. It was the most beautiful thing I had ever seen and
          I just about fell apart everytime I saw it. It is just amazingly
          beautiful. Now it is music and dirt and just about everything. Your
          child could probably explain this better than me. I think it is what
          some refer to as love.

          So back to the sutra. If one does not continue to practice after
          object oriented samadhi, then a plateau is reached and progess
          slows. The sutra are intended I believe to help those who get stuck
          at this point to understand that it can get even better.

          Thanks
          Bobby G.

          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tosime"
          <tosime@b...> wrote:
          > Hi Bobby,
          >
          > Thanks for posting this. I find it fascinating but I am not sure I
          > understand it all.
          >
          > I know this is asking a lot but could you please give us a simpler
          version.
          > I am thinking of something along the lines of what I could say to
          my 11 year
          > old son - very simple English.
          >
          > I recall you came close to this in one of your previous posts...
          >
          > "...If I am fearful, then I am remembering something
          > I am convinced is scary. It is just a thought. If I have a
          > realization about myself or a fantasy it does not transport me to
          > that place where it is real. I have to have the thought "me" and
          put
          > me in that place. It all changes in an instant if the telephone
          > rings..."
          >
          > Except for 'realization' this would come quite close.
          >
          > Also, I liked the way you summarized the previous section as an
          > introduction.
          >
          > Thanks...Tony
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@a...> [mailto:Bigbobgraham@a...]
          > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:45 PM
          > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Regarding Patanjali #5
          >
          >
          > Hi Everybody:
          >
          > I posted some thoughts on the first type of bliss described by
          > Patanjali in an earlier post.
          > "The crux of I.17 seems to be a description of the first stage of
          > bliss after the restriction of the fluctuations. I.18 describes the
          > next stage. Later."-bg
          >
          > Yoga Sutra translated by Feuerstein:
          > I.18 The other type of enstasy (the second stage-bg) has a residuum
          > of subliminal-activators; it follows the former, cognitive enstasy
          > upon the practice of the presented idea of cessation.
          > F. describes the 'presented idea of cessation' as- just in sleep
          > there is a presented-idea of 'non-occurrence' so also in the higher
          > stages of cognitive enstasy there is an awareness of the gradual
          > inhibition of all presented-ideas.
          >
          > translated by Iyengar:
          > I.18 The void arising in these experiences is another samadhi.
          > Hidden inpressions lie dormant, but spring up during moments of
          > awareness, creating fluctuations and disturbing the purity of the
          > consciousness.
          > Iyengar comments- Here Patanjali mentions another state of samadhi
          in
          > beween sabija and nirbija but does not name it. It is experienced
          > with the cessation of all functions of the brain, leaving behind
          only
          > the residual samskaras (tendencies). The word used for this state
          is
          > virama pratyaya.
          >
          > BG-The first stage of bliss described by P. is object oriented and
          > contains a sense of I amness, joy or cognitive awareness. In this
          > second stage (I.18), (virama pratyaya), these fluctuation cease but
          > the tendencies will arise again after the samadhi. This is not
          final
          > but a transition stage before what is called nirbija samadhi.
          >
          > Iyengar
          > I.19 In this state, one may experience bodilessness, or become
          > merged in nature. This may lead to isolation or to a state of
          > loneliness.
          > Iyengar explains this by showing that upon awakening from dreamless
          > sleep the average person glimpses a non physical state of existence
          > and also the state of merging in nature. In sleep these two phases
          > remain unconscious until one wakes, whereas evolved souls
          experience
          > them consciously during samadhi. Sleep is a natural condition of
          > consciousness; samadhi is a superconscious state.
          >
          > Iyengar
          > I.20 Practice must be pursued with trust, confidence, vigour, keen
          > memory and power of absorption to break this spiritual complacency.
          > I. explains with some detail how one can be halted in the progress
          > toward the last stage of development (nirbija samadhi) by remaining
          > in the stage described in I.18. As does Feuerstein in his
          commentary.
          >
          > Iyengar
          > I.21 The goal is near for those who are vigorous and intense in
          > practice.
          >
          > BG- I take this to mean not to stop the practice that got you there.
          > Double up! Honor the pure (unadulterated) and honest in yourself
          and
          > others. Meditate. There is a state of bliss where the tendencies
          > will still arise. But one can go past that state, once the method is
          > ingrained, if one does not block it. He refers to this later in
          > III.51 also, by admonishing against pride, etc.
          >
          > This post is what I said I would post on Pantanjali and bliss. To
          > jump ahead to book II might clarify something.
          >
          > Feuerstein
          > II.11 The fluctuations (immediate thoughts-bg) of the causes of
          > afflictions (deeper tendencies-bg) are to be overcome by meditative-
          > absorption.
          >
          > but before that:
          > II.10 The causes of affliction, in their subtle form (as a
          tendency-
          > bg), are to be overcome by the process of Involution.
          >
          > BG-Involution is the practice of self inquiry, asking "Who am I?".
          > Involution means to go back through the Ego, the tendency of
          > separateness, to the real Self. Destroying this first tendency is
          > what destroys all tendencies at their root.
          >
          > The manifestations of these tendencies are overcome or stopped by
          > meditation.
          >
          > Bliss, consciousness, and what is real.
          > Bobby G.
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • tosime
          Hi Bobby, Thank you for the beautiful version that is now very easy to understand. My thanks are a little delayed because I traveled over the weekend. I return
          Message 4 of 6 , Feb 3, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Bobby,

            Thank you for the beautiful version that is now very easy to understand.

            My thanks are a little delayed because I traveled over the weekend. I return
            to find over 400 posts! What do I do? The posts appear to come faster than I
            can read them! How do I home in on the 20% of posts that give me 80% of the
            daily development?

            Could Bob give us a sort of meditation highlights or summary?

            ...Tony

            -----Original Message-----
            From: texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@...> [mailto:Bigbobgraham@...]
            Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 1:53 AM
            To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Regarding Patanjali #5 -
            Bobby G.



            Hi Tony:

            Thanks for the reply. It's no trouble. The terminology is not
            familar to many.

            Raja Yoga is called Classical Yoga and Patanjali invented it as far
            as we know. It is about the concepts concerning the mind, its
            functions and attributes. It is not Jnana yoga.

            When you are perfectly still you have the sense of I am. Thoughts do
            not occur then. They could if you let them. As long as the I am is
            current, thoughts are repelled. They try to arise and you know what
            the thought would be if it did arise. But you don't entertain it.
            You are not lost in it and swept into another and another and so on.
            After this is successfully practiced for a few moments the feeling of
            bliss or gladness is known in association with the state of I
            amness. This is object oriented samadhi. The process may take
            awhile to settle into.

            Any object can be used such as a mantra or the breath and so on, as
            long as the object is held steady in the mind.

            After practicing for a while the bliss comes automatically. For me
            it was the sun. It was the most beautiful thing I had ever seen and
            I just about fell apart everytime I saw it. It is just amazingly
            beautiful. Now it is music and dirt and just about everything. Your
            child could probably explain this better than me. I think it is what
            some refer to as love.

            So back to the sutra. If one does not continue to practice after
            object oriented samadhi, then a plateau is reached and progess
            slows. The sutra are intended I believe to help those who get stuck
            at this point to understand that it can get even better.

            Thanks
            Bobby G.

            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tosime"
            <tosime@b...> wrote:
            > Hi Bobby,
            >
            > Thanks for posting this. I find it fascinating but I am not sure I
            > understand it all.
            >
            > I know this is asking a lot but could you please give us a simpler
            version.
            > I am thinking of something along the lines of what I could say to
            my 11 year
            > old son - very simple English.
            >
            > I recall you came close to this in one of your previous posts...
            >
            > "...If I am fearful, then I am remembering something
            > I am convinced is scary. It is just a thought. If I have a
            > realization about myself or a fantasy it does not transport me to
            > that place where it is real. I have to have the thought "me" and
            put
            > me in that place. It all changes in an instant if the telephone
            > rings..."
            >
            > Except for 'realization' this would come quite close.
            >
            > Also, I liked the way you summarized the previous section as an
            > introduction.
            >
            > Thanks...Tony
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@a...> [mailto:Bigbobgraham@a...]
            > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:45 PM
            > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Regarding Patanjali #5
            >
            >
            > Hi Everybody:
            >
            > I posted some thoughts on the first type of bliss described by
            > Patanjali in an earlier post.
            > "The crux of I.17 seems to be a description of the first stage of
            > bliss after the restriction of the fluctuations. I.18 describes the
            > next stage. Later."-bg
            >
            > Yoga Sutra translated by Feuerstein:
            > I.18 The other type of enstasy (the second stage-bg) has a residuum
            > of subliminal-activators; it follows the former, cognitive enstasy
            > upon the practice of the presented idea of cessation.
            > F. describes the 'presented idea of cessation' as- just in sleep
            > there is a presented-idea of 'non-occurrence' so also in the higher
            > stages of cognitive enstasy there is an awareness of the gradual
            > inhibition of all presented-ideas.
            >
            > translated by Iyengar:
            > I.18 The void arising in these experiences is another samadhi.
            > Hidden inpressions lie dormant, but spring up during moments of
            > awareness, creating fluctuations and disturbing the purity of the
            > consciousness.
            > Iyengar comments- Here Patanjali mentions another state of samadhi
            in
            > beween sabija and nirbija but does not name it. It is experienced
            > with the cessation of all functions of the brain, leaving behind
            only
            > the residual samskaras (tendencies). The word used for this state
            is
            > virama pratyaya.
            >
            > BG-The first stage of bliss described by P. is object oriented and
            > contains a sense of I amness, joy or cognitive awareness. In this
            > second stage (I.18), (virama pratyaya), these fluctuation cease but
            > the tendencies will arise again after the samadhi. This is not
            final
            > but a transition stage before what is called nirbija samadhi.
            >
            > Iyengar
            > I.19 In this state, one may experience bodilessness, or become
            > merged in nature. This may lead to isolation or to a state of
            > loneliness.
            > Iyengar explains this by showing that upon awakening from dreamless
            > sleep the average person glimpses a non physical state of existence
            > and also the state of merging in nature. In sleep these two phases
            > remain unconscious until one wakes, whereas evolved souls
            experience
            > them consciously during samadhi. Sleep is a natural condition of
            > consciousness; samadhi is a superconscious state.
            >
            > Iyengar
            > I.20 Practice must be pursued with trust, confidence, vigour, keen
            > memory and power of absorption to break this spiritual complacency.
            > I. explains with some detail how one can be halted in the progress
            > toward the last stage of development (nirbija samadhi) by remaining
            > in the stage described in I.18. As does Feuerstein in his
            commentary.
            >
            > Iyengar
            > I.21 The goal is near for those who are vigorous and intense in
            > practice.
            >
            > BG- I take this to mean not to stop the practice that got you there.
            > Double up! Honor the pure (unadulterated) and honest in yourself
            and
            > others. Meditate. There is a state of bliss where the tendencies
            > will still arise. But one can go past that state, once the method is
            > ingrained, if one does not block it. He refers to this later in
            > III.51 also, by admonishing against pride, etc.
            >
            > This post is what I said I would post on Pantanjali and bliss. To
            > jump ahead to book II might clarify something.
            >
            > Feuerstein
            > II.11 The fluctuations (immediate thoughts-bg) of the causes of
            > afflictions (deeper tendencies-bg) are to be overcome by meditative-
            > absorption.
            >
            > but before that:
            > II.10 The causes of affliction, in their subtle form (as a
            tendency-
            > bg), are to be overcome by the process of Involution.
            >
            > BG-Involution is the practice of self inquiry, asking "Who am I?".
            > Involution means to go back through the Ego, the tendency of
            > separateness, to the real Self. Destroying this first tendency is
            > what destroys all tendencies at their root.
            >
            > The manifestations of these tendencies are overcome or stopped by
            > meditation.
            >
            > Bliss, consciousness, and what is real.
            > Bobby G.
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • medit8ionsociety
            ... understand. ... I return ... faster than I ... of the ... A Guru is important and beneficial No it s not! Meditation is important and beneficial. No
            Message 5 of 6 , Feb 3, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              "tosime" <tosime@b...> wrote:
              > Hi Bobby,
              >
              > Thank you for the beautiful version that is now very easy to
              understand.
              >
              > My thanks are a little delayed because I traveled over the weekend.
              I return
              > to find over 400 posts! What do I do? The posts appear to come
              faster than I
              > can read them! How do I home in on the 20% of posts that give me 80%
              of the
              > daily development?
              >
              > Could Bob give us a sort of meditation highlights or summary?
              >
              > ...Tony
              >

              "A Guru is important and beneficial"
              "No it's not!"
              "Meditation is important and beneficial."
              "No it's not"
              and so on and so on...:-)
              Seriously, or almost so, every inner debate that most meditators go
              through in their development, evolution, and involution has been
              played out right in front of our eyes by the most illuminated,
              intelligent, eloquent, and bold possible Realizers anywhere. I really
              have confidence that it has gone down for a purpose that deals with
              accelerating the ending of ??? and the quickening of !!!
              Also, as we always state in our classes, if you missed anything, you
              didn't need it, or the universe would have made you be there to get it.
              So, don't sweat it if you miss a few hundred posts now and then.
              Peace and blessings,
              Bob
            • texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@aol.com>
              ... understand. Hi Tony: Thanksfor the interest. ... I return ... faster than I ... 80% of the ... I can t read them all either and if I missed responding to
              Message 6 of 6 , Feb 3, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tosime"
                <tosime@b...> wrote:
                > Hi Bobby,
                >
                > Thank you for the beautiful version that is now very easy to
                understand.

                Hi Tony:
                Thanksfor the interest.
                >
                > My thanks are a little delayed because I traveled over the weekend.
                I return
                > to find over 400 posts! What do I do? The posts appear to come
                faster than I
                > can read them! How do I home in on the 20% of posts that give me
                80% of the
                > daily development?
                >
                > Could Bob give us a sort of meditation highlights or summary?
                >
                > ...Tony

                I can't read them all either and if I missed responding to anyone i
                apologize.
                It would be easier to pick up responses if the threads were renamed
                after awhile.

                Love
                Bobby G.


                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@a...> [mailto:Bigbobgraham@a...]
                > Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 1:53 AM
                > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Regarding Patanjali
                #5 -
                > Bobby G.
                >
                >
                >
                > Hi Tony:
                >
                > Thanks for the reply. It's no trouble. The terminology is not
                > familar to many.
                >
                > Raja Yoga is called Classical Yoga and Patanjali invented it as far
                > as we know. It is about the concepts concerning the mind, its
                > functions and attributes. It is not Jnana yoga.
                >
                > When you are perfectly still you have the sense of I am. Thoughts
                do
                > not occur then. They could if you let them. As long as the I am is
                > current, thoughts are repelled. They try to arise and you know what
                > the thought would be if it did arise. But you don't entertain it.
                > You are not lost in it and swept into another and another and so on.
                > After this is successfully practiced for a few moments the feeling
                of
                > bliss or gladness is known in association with the state of I
                > amness. This is object oriented samadhi. The process may take
                > awhile to settle into.
                >
                > Any object can be used such as a mantra or the breath and so on, as
                > long as the object is held steady in the mind.
                >
                > After practicing for a while the bliss comes automatically. For me
                > it was the sun. It was the most beautiful thing I had ever seen and
                > I just about fell apart everytime I saw it. It is just amazingly
                > beautiful. Now it is music and dirt and just about everything.
                Your
                > child could probably explain this better than me. I think it is what
                > some refer to as love.
                >
                > So back to the sutra. If one does not continue to practice after
                > object oriented samadhi, then a plateau is reached and progess
                > slows. The sutra are intended I believe to help those who get stuck
                > at this point to understand that it can get even better.
                >
                > Thanks
                > Bobby G.
                >
                > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tosime"
                > <tosime@b...> wrote:
                > > Hi Bobby,
                > >
                > > Thanks for posting this. I find it fascinating but I am not sure I
                > > understand it all.
                > >
                > > I know this is asking a lot but could you please give us a simpler
                > version.
                > > I am thinking of something along the lines of what I could say to
                > my 11 year
                > > old son - very simple English.
                > >
                > > I recall you came close to this in one of your previous posts...
                > >
                > > "...If I am fearful, then I am remembering something
                > > I am convinced is scary. It is just a thought. If I have a
                > > realization about myself or a fantasy it does not transport me to
                > > that place where it is real. I have to have the thought "me" and
                > put
                > > me in that place. It all changes in an instant if the telephone
                > > rings..."
                > >
                > > Except for 'realization' this would come quite close.
                > >
                > > Also, I liked the way you summarized the previous section as an
                > > introduction.
                > >
                > > Thanks...Tony
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@a...> [mailto:Bigbobgraham@a...]
                > > Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:45 PM
                > > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Regarding Patanjali #5
                > >
                > >
                > > Hi Everybody:
                > >
                > > I posted some thoughts on the first type of bliss described by
                > > Patanjali in an earlier post.
                > > "The crux of I.17 seems to be a description of the first stage of
                > > bliss after the restriction of the fluctuations. I.18 describes
                the
                > > next stage. Later."-bg
                > >
                > > Yoga Sutra translated by Feuerstein:
                > > I.18 The other type of enstasy (the second stage-bg) has a
                residuum
                > > of subliminal-activators; it follows the former, cognitive enstasy
                > > upon the practice of the presented idea of cessation.
                > > F. describes the 'presented idea of cessation' as- just in sleep
                > > there is a presented-idea of 'non-occurrence' so also in the
                higher
                > > stages of cognitive enstasy there is an awareness of the gradual
                > > inhibition of all presented-ideas.
                > >
                > > translated by Iyengar:
                > > I.18 The void arising in these experiences is another samadhi.
                > > Hidden inpressions lie dormant, but spring up during moments of
                > > awareness, creating fluctuations and disturbing the purity of the
                > > consciousness.
                > > Iyengar comments- Here Patanjali mentions another state of samadhi
                > in
                > > beween sabija and nirbija but does not name it. It is experienced
                > > with the cessation of all functions of the brain, leaving behind
                > only
                > > the residual samskaras (tendencies). The word used for this state
                > is
                > > virama pratyaya.
                > >
                > > BG-The first stage of bliss described by P. is object oriented and
                > > contains a sense of I amness, joy or cognitive awareness. In this
                > > second stage (I.18), (virama pratyaya), these fluctuation cease
                but
                > > the tendencies will arise again after the samadhi. This is not
                > final
                > > but a transition stage before what is called nirbija samadhi.
                > >
                > > Iyengar
                > > I.19 In this state, one may experience bodilessness, or become
                > > merged in nature. This may lead to isolation or to a state of
                > > loneliness.
                > > Iyengar explains this by showing that upon awakening from
                dreamless
                > > sleep the average person glimpses a non physical state of
                existence
                > > and also the state of merging in nature. In sleep these two
                phases
                > > remain unconscious until one wakes, whereas evolved souls
                > experience
                > > them consciously during samadhi. Sleep is a natural condition of
                > > consciousness; samadhi is a superconscious state.
                > >
                > > Iyengar
                > > I.20 Practice must be pursued with trust, confidence, vigour,
                keen
                > > memory and power of absorption to break this spiritual
                complacency.
                > > I. explains with some detail how one can be halted in the progress
                > > toward the last stage of development (nirbija samadhi) by
                remaining
                > > in the stage described in I.18. As does Feuerstein in his
                > commentary.
                > >
                > > Iyengar
                > > I.21 The goal is near for those who are vigorous and intense in
                > > practice.
                > >
                > > BG- I take this to mean not to stop the practice that got you
                there.
                > > Double up! Honor the pure (unadulterated) and honest in yourself
                > and
                > > others. Meditate. There is a state of bliss where the tendencies
                > > will still arise. But one can go past that state, once the method
                is
                > > ingrained, if one does not block it. He refers to this later in
                > > III.51 also, by admonishing against pride, etc.
                > >
                > > This post is what I said I would post on Pantanjali and bliss. To
                > > jump ahead to book II might clarify something.
                > >
                > > Feuerstein
                > > II.11 The fluctuations (immediate thoughts-bg) of the causes of
                > > afflictions (deeper tendencies-bg) are to be overcome by
                meditative-
                > > absorption.
                > >
                > > but before that:
                > > II.10 The causes of affliction, in their subtle form (as a
                > tendency-
                > > bg), are to be overcome by the process of Involution.
                > >
                > > BG-Involution is the practice of self inquiry, asking "Who am I?".
                > > Involution means to go back through the Ego, the tendency of
                > > separateness, to the real Self. Destroying this first tendency is
                > > what destroys all tendencies at their root.
                > >
                > > The manifestations of these tendencies are overcome or stopped by
                > > meditation.
                > >
                > > Bliss, consciousness, and what is real.
                > > Bobby G.
                > >
                > >
                > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                > >
                > >
                > >
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