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On Death and Dying / Nisargadatta

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  • dan330033
    I do not look at death as a calamity, as I do not rejoice at the birth of a child. The child is out for trouble, while the dead is out of it. Attachment to
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 28, 2011
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      I do not look at death as a calamity, as I do not rejoice at the birth of a child. The child is out for trouble, while the dead is out of it. Attachment to life is attachment to sorrow. We love what gives pain. Such is our nature.

      ...

      In some cases death is the best cure. A life may be worse than death, which is but rarely an unpleasant experience, whatever the appearances.

      ...

      The more you know yourself, the less you are afraid of dying. Of course, the agony of dying is never pleasant to look at, but the dying man is rarely conscious.

      ....

      One who believes himself as having been born is very much afraid of death. On the other hand, to him who knows himself truly, death is a happy event.

      Nisargadatta, in "I Am That"
    • medit8ionsociety
      ... Yo Sri Danji, Thanks! I appreciate these quotes and virtually everything Niz ever shared. As humility and compassion are what I think are the 2 greatest
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 29, 2011
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        "dan330033" <dan330033@...> wrote:
        >
        > I do not look at death as a calamity, as I do not rejoice at the birth of a child. The child is out for trouble, while the dead is out of it. Attachment to life is attachment to sorrow. We love what gives pain. Such is our nature.
        >
        > ...
        >
        > In some cases death is the best cure. A life may be worse than death, which is but rarely an unpleasant experience, whatever the appearances.
        >
        > ...
        >
        > The more you know yourself, the less you are afraid of dying. Of course, the agony of dying is never pleasant to look at, but the dying man is rarely conscious.
        >
        > ....
        >
        > One who believes himself as having been born is very much afraid of death. On the other hand, to him who knows himself truly, death is a happy event.
        >
        > Nisargadatta, in "I Am That"
        >

        Yo Sri Danji,
        Thanks! I appreciate these quotes and virtually
        everything Niz ever shared. As humility and
        compassion are what I think are the 2 greatest
        evolution of consciousness stimulating things,
        the perspective pointed to in the story below is of
        value in trying to know about death (and more importantly
        this event we call "Life", as it takes place):

        When John Daido Loori was a monk at the Los Angeles
        Zen Center, he remarked one day to Maezumi Roshi:
        "I have resolved the question of life and death."

        "Are you sure?" Maezumi asked.

        "Yes,"replied Loori.

        "Are you really sure?:

        Absolutely," Loori answered.

        With that, Maezumi threw himself violently upon
        Loori and began to strangle him. Gasping for breath,
        Loori struggled to escape, but to no avail. Finally he
        swung back his fist and struck his teacher, knocking him aside.

        Maezumi rose to his feet and brushed himself off.
        "Resolved the question of life and death, eh?" he
        laughed, and walked off.

        Later, still bearing the marks of his teacher's fingers
        on his throat, Loori passed a senior monk, Genpo Sensei.

        On seeing the bruises, Genpo did a double take.
        "Told Roshi you'd resolved the question of life
        and death, did you?" he said and strode away laughing.

        By Sean Murphy from One Bird, One Stone: 108 American Zen Stories published by Renaissance Books.
        ----------------------------------------------------------------
        I first saw this on the Nondual Highlights Issue #1553 Saturday, September 13, 2003. http://www.nonduality.com
        -----------------------------------------------------------------
        Fair Use Notice: This document may contain
        copyrighted material whose use has not been specifically
        authorized by the copyright owners. I believe that
        this not-for-profit, educational use on the Web
        constitutes a fair use of the copyrighted material
        (as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law).
        If you wish to use this copyrighted material for purposes
        of your own that go beyond fair use, you must obtain
        permission from the copyright owner.
      • Sean
        Bob, The top quotes soind more like apathy than they do like compasion. At least to my westerrn ears, PS Guus loges the knife!!
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 29, 2011
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          Bob, The top quotes soind more like apathy than they do like compasion. At least to my westerrn ears, PS Guus loges the knife!!

          medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          >"dan330033" <dan330033@...> wrote:
          >>
          >> I do not look at death as a calamity, as I do not rejoice at the birth of a child. The child is out for trouble, while the dead is out of it. Attachment to life is attachment to sorrow. We love what gives pain. Such is our nature.
          >>
          >> ...
          >>
          >> In some cases death is the best cure. A life may be worse than death, which is but rarely an unpleasant experience, whatever the appearances.
          >>
          >> ...
          >>
          >> The more you know yourself, the less you are afraid of dying. Of course, the agony of dying is never pleasant to look at, but the dying man is rarely conscious.
          >>
          >> ....
          >>
          >> One who believes himself as having been born is very much afraid of death. On the other hand, to him who knows himself truly, death is a happy event.
          >>
          >> Nisargadatta, in "I Am That"
          >>
          >
          >Yo Sri Danji,
          >Thanks! I appreciate these quotes and virtually
          >everything Niz ever shared. As humility and
          >compassion are what I think are the 2 greatest
          >evolution of consciousness stimulating things,
          >the perspective pointed to in the story below is of
          >value in trying to know about death (and more importantly
          >this event we call "Life", as it takes place):
          >
          >When John Daido Loori was a monk at the Los Angeles
          >Zen Center, he remarked one day to Maezumi Roshi:
          >"I have resolved the question of life and death."
          >
          >"Are you sure?" Maezumi asked.
          >
          >"Yes,"replied Loori.
          >
          >"Are you really sure?:
          >
          >Absolutely," Loori answered.
          >
          >With that, Maezumi threw himself violently upon
          >Loori and began to strangle him. Gasping for breath,
          >Loori struggled to escape, but to no avail. Finally he
          >swung back his fist and struck his teacher, knocking him aside.
          >
          >Maezumi rose to his feet and brushed himself off.
          >"Resolved the question of life and death, eh?" he
          >laughed, and walked off.
          >
          >Later, still bearing the marks of his teacher's fingers
          >on his throat, Loori passed a senior monk, Genpo Sensei.
          >
          >On seeing the bruises, Genpo did a double take.
          >"Told Roshi you'd resolved the question of life
          >and death, did you?" he said and strode away laughing.
          >
          >By Sean Murphy from One Bird, One Stone: 108 American Zen Stories published by Renaissance Books.
          >----------------------------------------------------------------
          >I first saw this on the Nondual Highlights Issue #1553 Saturday, September 13, 2003. http://www.nonduality.com
          >-----------------------------------------------------------------
          >Fair Use Notice: This document may contain
          >copyrighted material whose use has not been specifically
          >authorized by the copyright owners. I believe that
          >this not-for-profit, educational use on the Web
          >constitutes a fair use of the copyrighted material
          >(as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law).
          >If you wish to use this copyrighted material for purposes
          >of your own that go beyond fair use, you must obtain
          >permission from the copyright owner.
          >
          >
          >
        • walto
          ... Gasping for breath, ... Loori would not go gentle into that good night. W
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 29, 2011
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            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety <no_reply@...> wrote:
            >
            Gasping for breath,
            > Loori struggled to escape, but to no avail. Finally he
            > swung back his fist and struck his teacher, knocking him aside.
            >

            Loori would not go gentle into that good night.

            W
          • Sean
            Most people do not,
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 30, 2011
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              Most people do not,

              walto <calhorn@...> wrote:

              >
              >
              >--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety <no_reply@...> wrote:
              >>
              > Gasping for breath,
              >> Loori struggled to escape, but to no avail. Finally he
              >> swung back his fist and struck his teacher, knocking him aside.
              >>
              >
              >Loori would not go gentle into that good night.
              >
              >W
              >
            • medit8ionsociety
              ... Yo Sean, Glad and not surprized that Gus likes the knife. It s the kind of gift a father gives to a son that whenever after he uses it, causes the son (or
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 31, 2011
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                Sean <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                >
                > Bob, The top quotes soind more like apathy than they do like compasion. At least to my westerrn ears, PS Guus loges the knife!!
                >

                Yo Sean,

                Glad and not surprized that Gus likes the knife.
                It's the kind of gift a father gives to a son that
                whenever after he uses it, causes the son
                (or daughter!) to re-bond with his/her feelings
                of appreciation of having such a great dad.

                It didn't occur to me to see the quotes in a way
                that pointed to apathy, but I can see that posibility now.
                Pretty sure that's 180 degrees from where Nisargadatta
                was actually coming from. All of the statements seem
                true and right on to me, and valuable as they sure
                aren't what we usually hear commented about pertaining
                to death. Much more honest and worth meditating on
                than the all too usual fairy tale quality or total
                silence that are the usual "Western" discussions
                about death. Rereading them, one special thing that
                struck me was the part about not rejoicing at
                the birth of a child. I remember when my newest
                grandchild was born, how different me and Bette's
                reaction was than the baby's paternal grandmother's.
                For us, it was our 5th G-kid, and for her, her 17th.
                She was much more Niz-like in her reaction than we were.
                And I'm not saying that was good or bad, or better
                or worse, in any way (than how elated we were). Just
                sayin! Even being apathetic about birth or death
                may be a much better game plan than fearing either.
                But it probably isn't anywhere near as much fun as
                being unafraid and happy in any and every given moment.

                Peace and blessings,
                Bob

                medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                >
                > >"dan330033" <dan330033@> wrote:
                > >>
                > >> I do not look at death as a calamity, as I do not rejoice at the birth of a child. The child is out for trouble, while the dead is out of it. Attachment to life is attachment to sorrow. We love what gives pain. Such is our nature.
                > >>
                > >> ...
                > >>
                > >> In some cases death is the best cure. A life may be worse than death, which is but rarely an unpleasant experience, whatever the appearances.
                > >>
                > >> ...
                > >>
                > >> The more you know yourself, the less you are afraid of dying. Of course, the agony of dying is never pleasant to look at, but the dying man is rarely conscious.
                > >>
                > >> ....
                > >>
                > >> One who believes himself as having been born is very much afraid of death. On the other hand, to him who knows himself truly, death is a happy event.
                > >>
                > >> Nisargadatta, in "I Am That"
                > >>
                > >
                > >Yo Sri Danji,
                > >Thanks! I appreciate these quotes and virtually
                > >everything Niz ever shared. As humility and
                > >compassion are what I think are the 2 greatest
                > >evolution of consciousness stimulating things,
                > >the perspective pointed to in the story below is of
                > >value in trying to know about death (and more importantly
                > >this event we call "Life", as it takes place):
                > >
                > >When John Daido Loori was a monk at the Los Angeles
                > >Zen Center, he remarked one day to Maezumi Roshi:
                > >"I have resolved the question of life and death."
                > >
                > >"Are you sure?" Maezumi asked.
                > >
                > >"Yes,"replied Loori.
                > >
                > >"Are you really sure?:
                > >
                > >Absolutely," Loori answered.
                > >
                > >With that, Maezumi threw himself violently upon
                > >Loori and began to strangle him. Gasping for breath,
                > >Loori struggled to escape, but to no avail. Finally he
                > >swung back his fist and struck his teacher, knocking him aside.
                > >
                > >Maezumi rose to his feet and brushed himself off.
                > >"Resolved the question of life and death, eh?" he
                > >laughed, and walked off.
                > >
                > >Later, still bearing the marks of his teacher's fingers
                > >on his throat, Loori passed a senior monk, Genpo Sensei.
                > >
                > >On seeing the bruises, Genpo did a double take.
                > >"Told Roshi you'd resolved the question of life
                > >and death, did you?" he said and strode away laughing.
                > >
                > >By Sean Murphy from One Bird, One Stone: 108 American Zen Stories published by Renaissance Books.
                > >----------------------------------------------------------------
                > >I first saw this on the Nondual Highlights Issue #1553 Saturday, September 13, 2003. http://www.nonduality.com
                > >-----------------------------------------------------------------
                > >Fair Use Notice: This document may contain
                > >copyrighted material whose use has not been specifically
                > >authorized by the copyright owners. I believe that
                > >this not-for-profit, educational use on the Web
                > >constitutes a fair use of the copyrighted material
                > >(as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law).
                > >If you wish to use this copyrighted material for purposes
                > >of your own that go beyond fair use, you must obtain
                > >permission from the copyright owner.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • dan330033
                Is death apathetic? Is death compassionate? Who does death avoid, who does death consult as to the most compassionate way to relate? What is death? One dies.
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 31, 2011
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                  Is death apathetic?

                  Is death compassionate?

                  Who does death avoid, who does death consult as to the most compassionate way to relate?

                  What is death?

                  One dies.

                  One is.

                  This is free - beyond apathy or compassion ...

                  Being this.

                  - D -

                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety <no_reply@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Sean <bethjams9@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Bob, The top quotes soind more like apathy than they do like compasion. At least to my westerrn ears, PS Guus loges the knife!!
                  > >
                  >
                  > Yo Sean,
                  >
                  > Glad and not surprized that Gus likes the knife.
                  > It's the kind of gift a father gives to a son that
                  > whenever after he uses it, causes the son
                  > (or daughter!) to re-bond with his/her feelings
                  > of appreciation of having such a great dad.
                  >
                  > It didn't occur to me to see the quotes in a way
                  > that pointed to apathy, but I can see that posibility now.
                  > Pretty sure that's 180 degrees from where Nisargadatta
                  > was actually coming from. All of the statements seem
                  > true and right on to me, and valuable as they sure
                  > aren't what we usually hear commented about pertaining
                  > to death. Much more honest and worth meditating on
                  > than the all too usual fairy tale quality or total
                  > silence that are the usual "Western" discussions
                  > about death. Rereading them, one special thing that
                  > struck me was the part about not rejoicing at
                  > the birth of a child. I remember when my newest
                  > grandchild was born, how different me and Bette's
                  > reaction was than the baby's paternal grandmother's.
                  > For us, it was our 5th G-kid, and for her, her 17th.
                  > She was much more Niz-like in her reaction than we were.
                  > And I'm not saying that was good or bad, or better
                  > or worse, in any way (than how elated we were). Just
                  > sayin! Even being apathetic about birth or death
                  > may be a much better game plan than fearing either.
                  > But it probably isn't anywhere near as much fun as
                  > being unafraid and happy in any and every given moment.
                  >
                  > Peace and blessings,
                  > Bob
                  >
                  > medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > >"dan330033" <dan330033@> wrote:
                  > > >>
                  > > >> I do not look at death as a calamity, as I do not rejoice at the birth of a child. The child is out for trouble, while the dead is out of it. Attachment to life is attachment to sorrow. We love what gives pain. Such is our nature.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> ...
                  > > >>
                  > > >> In some cases death is the best cure. A life may be worse than death, which is but rarely an unpleasant experience, whatever the appearances.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> ...
                  > > >>
                  > > >> The more you know yourself, the less you are afraid of dying. Of course, the agony of dying is never pleasant to look at, but the dying man is rarely conscious.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> ....
                  > > >>
                  > > >> One who believes himself as having been born is very much afraid of death. On the other hand, to him who knows himself truly, death is a happy event.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Nisargadatta, in "I Am That"
                  > > >>
                  > > >
                  > > >Yo Sri Danji,
                  > > >Thanks! I appreciate these quotes and virtually
                  > > >everything Niz ever shared. As humility and
                  > > >compassion are what I think are the 2 greatest
                  > > >evolution of consciousness stimulating things,
                  > > >the perspective pointed to in the story below is of
                  > > >value in trying to know about death (and more importantly
                  > > >this event we call "Life", as it takes place):
                  > > >
                  > > >When John Daido Loori was a monk at the Los Angeles
                  > > >Zen Center, he remarked one day to Maezumi Roshi:
                  > > >"I have resolved the question of life and death."
                  > > >
                  > > >"Are you sure?" Maezumi asked.
                  > > >
                  > > >"Yes,"replied Loori.
                  > > >
                  > > >"Are you really sure?:
                  > > >
                  > > >Absolutely," Loori answered.
                  > > >
                  > > >With that, Maezumi threw himself violently upon
                  > > >Loori and began to strangle him. Gasping for breath,
                  > > >Loori struggled to escape, but to no avail. Finally he
                  > > >swung back his fist and struck his teacher, knocking him aside.
                  > > >
                  > > >Maezumi rose to his feet and brushed himself off.
                  > > >"Resolved the question of life and death, eh?" he
                  > > >laughed, and walked off.
                  > > >
                  > > >Later, still bearing the marks of his teacher's fingers
                  > > >on his throat, Loori passed a senior monk, Genpo Sensei.
                  > > >
                  > > >On seeing the bruises, Genpo did a double take.
                  > > >"Told Roshi you'd resolved the question of life
                  > > >and death, did you?" he said and strode away laughing.
                  > > >
                  > > >By Sean Murphy from One Bird, One Stone: 108 American Zen Stories published by Renaissance Books.
                  > > >----------------------------------------------------------------
                  > > >I first saw this on the Nondual Highlights Issue #1553 Saturday, September 13, 2003. http://www.nonduality.com
                  > > >-----------------------------------------------------------------
                  > > >Fair Use Notice: This document may contain
                  > > >copyrighted material whose use has not been specifically
                  > > >authorized by the copyright owners. I believe that
                  > > >this not-for-profit, educational use on the Web
                  > > >constitutes a fair use of the copyrighted material
                  > > >(as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law).
                  > > >If you wish to use this copyrighted material for purposes
                  > > >of your own that go beyond fair use, you must obtain
                  > > >permission from the copyright owner.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • sean tremblay
                  fwap fwap.. is the sound of a dead horse being flogged ________________________________ From: dan330033 To:
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 31, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    fwap fwap.. is the sound of a dead horse being flogged


                    From: dan330033 <dan330033@...>
                    To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 4:09 PM
                    Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: On Death and Dying / Nisargadatta

                     
                    Is death apathetic?

                    Is death compassionate?

                    Who does death avoid, who does death consult as to the most compassionate way to relate?

                    What is death?

                    One dies.

                    One is.

                    This is free - beyond apathy or compassion ...

                    Being this.

                    - D -

                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety <no_reply@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Sean <bethjams9@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Bob, The top quotes soind more like apathy than they do like compasion. At least to my westerrn ears, PS Guus loges the knife!!
                    > >
                    >
                    > Yo Sean,
                    >
                    > Glad and not surprized that Gus likes the knife.
                    > It's the kind of gift a father gives to a son that
                    > whenever after he uses it, causes the son
                    > (or daughter!) to re-bond with his/her feelings
                    > of appreciation of having such a great dad.
                    >
                    > It didn't occur to me to see the quotes in a way
                    > that pointed to apathy, but I can see that posibility now.
                    > Pretty sure that's 180 degrees from where Nisargadatta
                    > was actually coming from. All of the statements seem
                    > true and right on to me, and valuable as they sure
                    > aren't what we usually hear commented about pertaining
                    > to death. Much more honest and worth meditating on
                    > than the all too usual fairy tale quality or total
                    > silence that are the usual "Western" discussions
                    > about death. Rereading them, one special thing that
                    > struck me was the part about not rejoicing at
                    > the birth of a child. I remember when my newest
                    > grandchild was born, how different me and Bette's
                    > reaction was than the baby's paternal grandmother's.
                    > For us, it was our 5th G-kid, and for her, her 17th.
                    > She was much more Niz-like in her reaction than we were.
                    > And I'm not saying that was good or bad, or better
                    > or worse, in any way (than how elated we were). Just
                    > sayin! Even being apathetic about birth or death
                    > may be a much better game plan than fearing either.
                    > But it probably isn't anywhere near as much fun as
                    > being unafraid and happy in any and every given moment.
                    >
                    > Peace and blessings,
                    > Bob
                    >
                    > medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > >"dan330033" <dan330033@> wrote:
                    > > >>
                    > > >> I do not look at death as a calamity, as I do not rejoice at the birth of a child. The child is out for trouble, while the dead is out of it. Attachment to life is attachment to sorrow. We love what gives pain. Such is our nature.
                    > > >>
                    > > >> ...
                    > > >>
                    > > >> In some cases death is the best cure. A life may be worse than death, which is but rarely an unpleasant experience, whatever the appearances.
                    > > >>
                    > > >> ...
                    > > >>
                    > > >> The more you know yourself, the less you are afraid of dying. Of course, the agony of dying is never pleasant to look at, but the dying man is rarely conscious.
                    > > >>
                    > > >> ....
                    > > >>
                    > > >> One who believes himself as having been born is very much afraid of death. On the other hand, to him who knows himself truly, death is a happy event.
                    > > >>
                    > > >> Nisargadatta, in "I Am That"
                    > > >>
                    > > >
                    > > >Yo Sri Danji,
                    > > >Thanks! I appreciate these quotes and virtually
                    > > >everything Niz ever shared. As humility and
                    > > >compassion are what I think are the 2 greatest
                    > > >evolution of consciousness stimulating things,
                    > > >the perspective pointed to in the story below is of
                    > > >value in trying to know about death (and more importantly
                    > > >this event we call "Life", as it takes place):
                    > > >
                    > > >When John Daido Loori was a monk at the Los Angeles
                    > > >Zen Center, he remarked one day to Maezumi Roshi:
                    > > >"I have resolved the question of life and death."
                    > > >
                    > > >"Are you sure?" Maezumi asked.
                    > > >
                    > > >"Yes,"replied Loori.
                    > > >
                    > > >"Are you really sure?:
                    > > >
                    > > >Absolutely," Loori answered.
                    > > >
                    > > >With that, Maezumi threw himself violently upon
                    > > >Loori and began to strangle him. Gasping for breath,
                    > > >Loori struggled to escape, but to no avail. Finally he
                    > > >swung back his fist and struck his teacher, knocking him aside.
                    > > >
                    > > >Maezumi rose to his feet and brushed himself off.
                    > > >"Resolved the question of life and death, eh?" he
                    > > >laughed, and walked off.
                    > > >
                    > > >Later, still bearing the marks of his teacher's fingers
                    > > >on his throat, Loori passed a senior monk, Genpo Sensei.
                    > > >
                    > > >On seeing the bruises, Genpo did a double take.
                    > > >"Told Roshi you'd resolved the question of life
                    > > >and death, did you?" he said and strode away laughing.
                    > > >
                    > > >By Sean Murphy from One Bird, One Stone: 108 American Zen Stories published by Renaissance Books.
                    > > >----------------------------------------------------------
                    > > >I first saw this on the Nondual Highlights Issue #1553 Saturday, September 13, 2003. http://www.nonduality.com
                    > > >----------------------------------------------------------
                    > > >Fair Use Notice: This document may contain
                    > > >copyrighted material whose use has not been specifically
                    > > >authorized by the copyright owners. I believe that
                    > > >this not-for-profit, educational use on the Web
                    > > >constitutes a fair use of the copyrighted material
                    > > >(as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law).
                    > > >If you wish to use this copyrighted material for purposes
                    > > >of your own that go beyond fair use, you must obtain
                    > > >permission from the copyright owner.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >



                  • dan330033
                    Sean - This is the sound of your death - and it is not fwap, fwap - because it is not external to your being. - D -
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 1, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Sean -

                      This is the sound of your death - and it is not fwap, fwap - because it is not external to your being.

                      - D -

                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > fwap fwap.. is the sound of a dead horse being flogged
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: dan330033 <dan330033@...>
                      > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 4:09 PM
                      > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: On Death and Dying / Nisargadatta
                      >
                      >
                      >  
                      > Is death apathetic?
                      >
                      > Is death compassionate?
                      >
                      > Who does death avoid, who does death consult as to the most compassionate way to relate?
                      >
                      > What is death?
                      >
                      > One dies.
                      >
                      > One is.
                      >
                      > This is free - beyond apathy or compassion ...
                      >
                      > Being this.
                      >
                      > - D -
                      >
                      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety <no_reply@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Sean <bethjams9@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Bob, The top quotes soind more like apathy than they do like compasion. At least to my westerrn ears, PS Guus loges the knife!!
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > Yo Sean,
                      > >
                      > > Glad and not surprized that Gus likes the knife.
                      > > It's the kind of gift a father gives to a son that
                      > > whenever after he uses it, causes the son
                      > > (or daughter!) to re-bond with his/her feelings
                      > > of appreciation of having such a great dad.
                      > >
                      > > It didn't occur to me to see the quotes in a way
                      > > that pointed to apathy, but I can see that posibility now.
                      > > Pretty sure that's 180 degrees from where Nisargadatta
                      > > was actually coming from. All of the statements seem
                      > > true and right on to me, and valuable as they sure
                      > > aren't what we usually hear commented about pertaining
                      > > to death. Much more honest and worth meditating on
                      > > than the all too usual fairy tale quality or total
                      > > silence that are the usual "Western" discussions
                      > > about death. Rereading them, one special thing that
                      > > struck me was the part about not rejoicing at
                      > > the birth of a child. I remember when my newest
                      > > grandchild was born, how different me and Bette's
                      > > reaction was than the baby's paternal grandmother's.
                      > > For us, it was our 5th G-kid, and for her, her 17th.
                      > > She was much more Niz-like in her reaction than we were.
                      > > And I'm not saying that was good or bad, or better
                      > > or worse, in any way (than how elated we were). Just
                      > > sayin! Even being apathetic about birth or death
                      > > may be a much better game plan than fearing either.
                      > > But it probably isn't anywhere near as much fun as
                      > > being unafraid and happy in any and every given moment.
                      > >
                      > > Peace and blessings,
                      > > Bob
                      > >
                      > > medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > >"dan330033" <dan330033@> wrote:
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> I do not look at death as a calamity, as I do not rejoice at the birth of a child. The child is out for trouble, while the dead is out of it. Attachment to life is attachment to sorrow. We love what gives pain. Such is our nature.
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> ...
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> In some cases death is the best cure. A life may be worse than death, which is but rarely an unpleasant experience, whatever the appearances.
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> ...
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> The more you know yourself, the less you are afraid of dying. Of course, the agony of dying is never pleasant to look at, but the dying man is rarely conscious.
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> ....
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> One who believes himself as having been born is very much afraid of death. On the other hand, to him who knows himself truly, death is a happy event.
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> Nisargadatta, in "I Am That"
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >
                      > > > >Yo Sri Danji,
                      > > > >Thanks! I appreciate these quotes and virtually
                      > > > >everything Niz ever shared. As humility and
                      > > > >compassion are what I think are the 2 greatest
                      > > > >evolution of consciousness stimulating things,
                      > > > >the perspective pointed to in the story below is of
                      > > > >value in trying to know about death (and more importantly
                      > > > >this event we call "Life", as it takes place):
                      > > > >
                      > > > >When John Daido Loori was a monk at the Los Angeles
                      > > > >Zen Center, he remarked one day to Maezumi Roshi:
                      > > > >"I have resolved the question of life and death."
                      > > > >
                      > > > >"Are you sure?" Maezumi asked.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >"Yes,"replied Loori.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >"Are you really sure?:
                      > > > >
                      > > > >Absolutely," Loori answered.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >With that, Maezumi threw himself violently upon
                      > > > >Loori and began to strangle him. Gasping for breath,
                      > > > >Loori struggled to escape, but to no avail. Finally he
                      > > > >swung back his fist and struck his teacher, knocking him aside.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >Maezumi rose to his feet and brushed himself off.
                      > > > >"Resolved the question of life and death, eh?" he
                      > > > >laughed, and walked off.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >Later, still bearing the marks of his teacher's fingers
                      > > > >on his throat, Loori passed a senior monk, Genpo Sensei.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >On seeing the bruises, Genpo did a double take.
                      > > > >"Told Roshi you'd resolved the question of life
                      > > > >and death, did you?" he said and strode away laughing.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >By Sean Murphy from One Bird, One Stone: 108 American Zen Stories published by Renaissance Books.
                      > > > >----------------------------------------------------------
                      > > > >I first saw this on the Nondual Highlights Issue #1553 Saturday, September 13, 2003. http://www.nonduality.com
                      > > > >----------------------------------------------------------
                      > > > >Fair Use Notice: This document may contain
                      > > > >copyrighted material whose use has not been specifically
                      > > > >authorized by the copyright owners. I believe that
                      > > > >this not-for-profit, educational use on the Web
                      > > > >constitutes a fair use of the copyrighted material
                      > > > >(as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law).
                      > > > >If you wish to use this copyrighted material for purposes
                      > > > >of your own that go beyond fair use, you must obtain
                      > > > >permission from the copyright owner.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • dan330033
                      Because mostly they want to keep being people. - D -
                      Message 10 of 12 , Nov 1, 2011
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                        Because mostly they want to keep being people.

                        - D -

                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Sean <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Most people do not,
                        >
                        > walto <calhorn@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety <no_reply@> wrote:
                        > >>
                        > > Gasping for breath,
                        > >> Loori struggled to escape, but to no avail. Finally he
                        > >> swung back his fist and struck his teacher, knocking him aside.
                        > >>
                        > >
                        > >Loori would not go gentle into that good night.
                        > >
                        > >W
                        > >
                        >
                      • Sean
                        Of course they do
                        Message 11 of 12 , Nov 1, 2011
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                          Of course they do


                          dan330033 <dan330033@...> wrote:

                          >Because mostly they want to keep being people.
                          >
                          >- D -
                          >
                          >--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Sean <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                          >>
                          >> Most people do not,
                          >>
                          >> walto <calhorn@...> wrote:
                          >>
                          >> >
                          >> >
                          >> >--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety <no_reply@> wrote:
                          >> >>
                          >> > Gasping for breath,
                          >> >> Loori struggled to escape, but to no avail. Finally he
                          >> >> swung back his fist and struck his teacher, knocking him aside.
                          >> >>
                          >> >
                          >> >Loori would not go gentle into that good night.
                          >> >
                          >> >W
                          >> >
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                        • dan330033
                          That s what they are - the intention to keep a sense of their existence going ... And seeing through that intention ... One is. - D -
                          Message 12 of 12 , Nov 1, 2011
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                            That's what they are - the intention to keep a sense of their existence going ...

                            And seeing through that intention ...

                            One is.

                            - D -

                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Sean <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Of course they do
                            >
                            >
                            > dan330033 <dan330033@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > >Because mostly they want to keep being people.
                            > >
                            > >- D -
                            > >
                            > >--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Sean <bethjams9@> wrote:
                            > >>
                            > >> Most people do not,
                            > >>
                            > >> walto <calhorn@> wrote:
                            > >>
                            > >> >
                            > >> >
                            > >> >--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety <no_reply@> wrote:
                            > >> >>
                            > >> > Gasping for breath,
                            > >> >> Loori struggled to escape, but to no avail. Finally he
                            > >> >> swung back his fist and struck his teacher, knocking him aside.
                            > >> >>
                            > >> >
                            > >> >Loori would not go gentle into that good night.
                            > >> >
                            > >> >W
                            > >> >
                            > >>
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
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