[Meditation Society of America] Re: A Most Unusual Deathbed Scene
- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, sean tremblay <bethjams9@...> wrote:
>D: Only if you promise not to bring a video camera.
> Get a room you two
Hey, it's interesting to see Walto's response below -- I read these messages on-line and didn't see the message below from Walto.
Does that mean he deleted it after he posted it?
Well, for fun, here's a response, Walto -
> You have it that there is one (and only one) thing when it suits whatever lineNo, you misunderstand what I'm saying. You haven't recapitulated it adequately at all.
> you are pushing at one moment and as many as you like when that suits better.
That which is non-divided may be referred to as one. But that doesn't mean it is a thing. Nor does it mean that it is one numerically.
I can refer to "many" as much as I like - it doesn't mean that any of the "many" exist by themselves as separated entities.
> You (but not I, because we are different entities)D: There aren't separately existing entities, each having and keeping their own qualities. That conclusion doesn't hold water, old chap.
> pontificate (i.e., state withD: Interesting how you read these notions into simple postings. My assurance or non-assurance seems irrelevant to me.
> absolute assurance but provide no reasons whatever) that there are perspectives
> but that there are also no perspectives, that there are numerous selves but alsoD: There isn't any actually existing separated self with its own qualities. There are self-configurations in thought via memory - but thought doesn't arise as a separately existing thing, either.
> that there is no self at all.
> In your world, I am he and you are me and you areD: You insist on compartmentalized worlds with different beings inhabiting them. Again, if that works for you, fine.
> the walrus. That's a convenient world, it's not my world, but I like the music there.
If I recall, I think I was saying something like: there isn't a pro or con about being - just about words provided about being.
With words, thoughts, one can imagine different separately existing perspectives, beings, worlds being experienced by different entities.
Yet, being simply is as it is - unconcerned about ways that words are attributed to positions, or contests between one imagined position and another.
Being aware is simple, doesn't involve any position or perspective, nor any non-perspective to be held.
Being aware as this, the words we exchange here are for fun - not to provide a compartment to put reality into.
> Different as our views are on these matters, however, one thing that isD: I haven't concluded anything, my friend.
> apparently the case in both of our worlds (i.e, both yours and mine) is that if
> one is willing to contradict oneself, one can conclude anything whatever.
I walked through an open door, and found myself on
both sides, with nothing between.
Expressing this as I will, I don't take the word for
the actuality, nor the concept for what is so.
> That's true in my world because it's a theorem of logic, and it's true in yourD: Only, I am not living in a separately existing world,
> world for whatever "reason" you happen to find satisfying at some moment or rhetorically
> useful at another moment (there being different moments as well as different people).
formed by a continuing line of thought and memory reference.
> These are clearly not the same type of warrant, whichD: A very interesting assessment you've made of this situation.
> in my world (but not yours) provides additional evidence of the clearest
> possible kind that I am not you, and that, far from there being no selves, there
> must be at least two.
How much does a self weigh? Where exactly is a self located?
What are its qualities that make it able to be known
as a self and not as something else, like a chair?
What forms the outside of one self, and when and how
does a self make contact with another self?
> And if you throw in your buddy Sandeep, that would makeD: You can formulate entities, conceptually, however you'd
> (as I count 'em) three.
like. Three, a million - that point is that these entities
make sense to you, because you provide their qualities,
their locations, based on your understanding/perception
of where and what they are.
So, perceptually, experientially, these entities are
relevant to you, and formed of your perception, and your
And the "you" that forms "them" isn't separable -
one looking into this clearly, sees immediately
that the "you" forming "them" hasn't a separated location,
is simply being aware, and thoughts forming give the
impression of different existences.
If that thought is not, the separable existences are not.
And yet, one is simply aware.
This simplicity *isn't* dependent on thought/concept/memory.
But "entities" *are* dependent on thought/concept/memory.
> Now, if you'll excuse me, I'd like to go meditate.D: Yes, of course. Where is the non-conceptual
fact of *being aware* located while
the body-mind defined as "Walto" is in a meditational
> Best,Absolutely the best ... the only ... that which is beyond compare:
One's being ...
From: Yahoo User <sanjivs77@...>
Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 8:26 PM
Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: A Most Unusual Deathbed SceneSean,
Thank you for expressing what I (and I assume many others) have been thinking for a long time. I value most of the posts on this forum and really appreciate all the work Bob has put in. But the few you mention seem to be in love with seeing their names on the forum associated with repetitive posts, which they may think come from an exalted state of enlightenment but are quite meaningless to lesser mortals like me. Sandeep seems to think that nothing matters, so I would ask - why bother posting here ??
-------------LOL.It is precisely because nothing matters, hence the pixelings.Incidentally, neither nothing matters............ nor......... nothing does not matter.
There was also a mention of the term "meaningless".
Meaningless is as much a meaning as any other meaning.
Hence an expression of the same creativity of thought...... which is the sense of a mind....... a sense of an individuated self.After all the sense of a a meaning (even of meaningless) ...
....has to co-exist with the sense of the entity......... for which the meaning(even of meaningless)...
..is a held meaning.
That........ to which neither a meaning, nor meaningless can be attributed....
.....cannot be referenced by even the term "That".
Or by these very pixels.