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Re: Some tidbit from Nisarga

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  • medit8ionsociety
    ... Perhaps we could say It s all a matter of activity and reactivity secondary to our point of view, our perception. The ancient illustration of Advaita,
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 3, 2010
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513" <faithearden@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sandeep chatterjee
      > <sandeep1960@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > That you are awake and alive is itself a concept, at this moment.
      > > Go back to the source, before this concept arose, what was your state?
      > >
      > > I don't know.
      >
      > Faithe: Isn't thinking that one can/should go back to the source BEFORE
      > this concept arose, just another concept? Isn't the not knowing what
      > that state was, also a concept? More mulberry bush circling.
      > >
      > > That which you don't know is the true state.
      >
      > Faithe: How does one know that they don't know? Isn't this "true state"
      > of "don't know" another concept?
      > >
      > > Everything that comes after this consciousnesses arises, is useless,
      > > consciousnesses is useless.
      >
      > Faithe: How does one realize non-consciousness? Isn't labeling
      > consciousness as "useless", also a concept?
      > >
      > >
      > > So the search, all aspects of it belong the same?
      >
      > Faithe: Even the searching for "non-searching"?
      > >
      > > Throw away every thought, every experience, everything that happens
      > after this consciousness has risen.
      >
      > Faithe: To do this, one would have to realize that "state" prior to
      > consciousness, which is not possible.
      > >
      > > Other than throwing it away as useless, there is nothing to be done
      > beyond this understanding in which you are more and more absorbed.
      > >
      > Faithe: Thinking that one has thrown it (thoughts, experience, etc.
      > prior to consciousness) is just another aspect of consciousness, is it
      > not?
      >
      > >
      > >
      > > In the jnani beingness has reached the state of no-beingness, still
      > appearances will happen, how will one act?
      >
      > Faithe: One will act just as before, no change, no difference, other
      > than perhaps trying to fool oneself that they do not exist.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > It is something like the dream world......everything is happening and
      > not only you but nobody is doing anything.
      > >
      >
      > Faithe: Is "dream world" just another aspect of consciousness? And if
      > so, then the dream world must also be thrown away!!! If nobody is doing
      > anything in the dream world, then why do I sometimes wake up exhausted
      > after a stimulating dream?
      >

      Perhaps we could say "It's all a matter of activity and
      reactivity secondary to our point of view, our perception."

      "The ancient illustration of Advaita, of the rope being
      taken for a snake, may elucidate the point a little more.
      When a man mistakes the rope for a snake, the rope has
      vanished, and when he takes it for a rope,the snake has
      vanished, and the rope only remains. The ideas of dual
      or treble existence come from reasoning or insufficient
      data, and we read them in books or hear about them, until
      we come under the delusion that we really have a dual
      perception of the soul and the body; but such a
      perception never really exists. The perception is either
      of the body,or of the soul. It requires no arguments to
      prove it, you can verify it in your own mind."
      Swami Vivekananda
    • sandeep chatterjee
      ... From: medit8ionsociety Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Some tidbit from Nisarga To:
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 3, 2010
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        --- On Sun, 10/3/10, medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

        From: medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Some tidbit from Nisarga
        To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, October 3, 2010, 7:40 PM

         



        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513" <faithearden@...> wrote:


        <SNIP>

        >
        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sandeep chatterjee
        > <sandeep1960@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > That you are awake and alive is itself a concept, at this moment.
        > > Go back to the source, before this concept arose, what was your state?
        > >
        > > I don't know.
        >

        Perhaps we could say "It's all a matter of activity and
        reactivity secondary to our point of view, our perception."

        "The ancient illustration of Advaita, of the rope being
        taken for a snake, may elucidate the point a little more.
        When a man mistakes the rope for a snake, the rope has
        vanished, and when he takes it for a rope,the snake has
        vanished, and the rope only remains. The ideas of dual
        or treble existence come from reasoning or insufficient
        data, and we read them in books or hear about them, until
        we come under the delusion that we really have a dual
        perception of the soul and the body; but such a
        perception never really exists. The perception is either
        of the body,or of the soul. It requires no arguments to
        prove it, you can verify it in your own mind."
        Swami Vivekananda


        ----------


        Yes Bob.

        What arises as verbalization, articulation, or in this medium,........ squiggly signs moving from screens to screens via routers, cables and satellite linkages...

        ....is indeed conceptual entertainment.


        Yet the correct way

        (so to say, as really there is no correct or incorrect way).....

        .....is to accept what is prattled .......totally on faith.


        And to note the immediately arising thought(s)......

        " Whoa Whoa Whoa.......what, is this another brain-washing cult that I have to accept on blind faith?

        Who the hell is anybody to tell me, ME to accept anything?

        Do I, ........I who have succeeded in life, kicked ass , taken no shit from nobody....using my knowledge, experiences, intellect, reasoning ability, physical prowess   ......

        am I stupid, do I not have brains?

        If these guys cannot prove on MY terms what they prattle, they are all assholes , spouting bogus crap  "

        etc etc etc.


        The usual defense when there is a sense of a threat to one's identity, aka one's very sense of existence. 

        :-)


        Yes, accept totally on faith.

        And further accept that such a vision( to use a mere term) as displayed by the particular verbalization....


        ....is NOT apparent here "in me".


        And then to look at what is it that obstructs such a vision to dawn "here-in-me".



        For example.......rather than ........is this not a concept, is that not a concept...et al.......


        ....the repentance(which is not the usual connotation of a guilt laden remorse but means a re-turning)...


        ....the re-turn..........of the focus ........as to who is it....... to whom all this verbalization is a concept.


        To whom is the phantasmagoria  of the array of the perceived .....

        ....such an existential reality....


        ....that the very suggestion that it's all fluff .....

        .....is anathema?


        Is there a loci........ where the very questioner .......questioning the conceptuality of the verbalization....


        ....can be anchored?


        Whatever be the answer to the above........ that thought creates....

        ......who is it that took delivery of that latest answer....

        ....where did that latest answer get anchored?



        And the apperception.......

        .......that there is neither  been ever the thought of conceptuality....

        ... nor the absence of any such thought.



        That is a Guru( a remover of the apparent surrounding darkness)...

        ...and a Guru need not only be of the sentient biological variety...


        ...which throws oneself back to oneself....

        ....i.e. enables the arising and abets the perpetuation of ....

        ....repentance.


        A repentance which consumes both the sense of a perceiver and it's innate belief in the reality of it's individuated existence.......


        ......AND...... consumes the sense of the perceived, whose existence is held to be so real.

        Both sense of realities, lending each other ........the fuel...

        ....for both to seem to continue to persist.


        As a display of what such a drama would be like.......


        ......if ........


        .....such a drama could ever be enacted on some stage of primordial proportions.




        .

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