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Some tidbit from Nisarga

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  • sandeep chatterjee
    That you are awake and alive is itself a concept, at this moment. Go back to the source, before this concept arose, what was your state? I don t know. That
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 26, 2010
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      That you are awake and alive is itself a concept, at this moment.

      Go back to the source, before this concept arose, what was your state?

      I don't know.

      That which you don't know is the true state.

      Everything that comes after this consciousnesses arises, is useless,
      consciousnesses is useless.



      So the search, all aspects of it belong the same?

      Throw away every thought, every experience, everything that happens after this consciousness has risen.

      Other than throwing it away as useless, there is nothing to be done beyond this understanding in which you are more and more absorbed.



      In the jnani beingness has reached the state of no-beingness, still appearances will happen, how will one act?



      It is something like the dream world......everything is happening and not only you but nobody is doing anything.






    • medit8ionsociety
      That you are awake and alive is itself a concept, at this moment. Go back to the source, before this concept arose, what was your state? I don t know. That
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 26, 2010
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        That you are awake and alive is itself a concept, at this moment.
        Go back to the source, before this concept arose, what was your state?


        I don't know.

        That which you don't know is the true state.

        Everything that comes after this consciousnesses arises, is useless,
        consciousnesses is useless.



        So the search, all aspects of it belong the same?

        Throw away every thought, every experience, everything that happens after this consciousness has risen.

        Other than throwing it away as useless, there is nothing to be done beyond this understanding in which you are more and more absorbed.




        In the jnani beingness has reached the state of no-beingness, still appearances will happen, how will one act?



        It is something like the dream world......everything is happening and not only you but nobody is doing anything.

      • tarah513
        ... Faithe: Isn t thinking that one can/should go back to the source BEFORE this concept arose, just another concept? Isn t the not knowing what that state
        Message 3 of 5 , Sep 27, 2010
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          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > That you are awake and alive is itself a concept, at this moment.
          > Go back to the source, before this concept arose, what was your state?
          >
          > I don't know.

          Faithe: Isn't thinking that one can/should go back to the source BEFORE this concept arose, just another concept? Isn't the not knowing what that state was, also a concept? More mulberry bush circling.
          >
          > That which you don't know is the true state.

          Faithe: How does one know that they don't know? Isn't this "true state" of "don't know" another concept?
          >
          > Everything that comes after this consciousnesses arises, is useless,
          > consciousnesses is useless.

          Faithe: How does one realize non-consciousness? Isn't labeling consciousness as "useless", also a concept?
          >
          >
          > So the search, all aspects of it belong the same?

          Faithe: Even the searching for "non-searching"?
          >
          > Throw away every thought, every experience, everything that happens after this consciousness has risen.

          Faithe: To do this, one would have to realize that "state" prior to consciousness, which is not possible.
          >
          > Other than throwing it away as useless, there is nothing to be done beyond this understanding in which you are more and more absorbed.
          >
          Faithe: Thinking that one has thrown it (thoughts, experience, etc. prior to consciousness) is just another aspect of consciousness, is it not?

          >
          >
          > In the jnani beingness has reached the state of no-beingness, still appearances will happen, how will one act?

          Faithe: One will act just as before, no change, no difference, other than perhaps trying to fool oneself that they do not exist.
          >
          >
          >
          > It is something like the dream world......everything is happening and not only you but nobody is doing anything.
          >

          Faithe: Is "dream world" just another aspect of consciousness? And if so, then the dream world must also be thrown away!!! If nobody is doing anything in the dream world, then why do I sometimes wake up exhausted after a stimulating dream?

        • medit8ionsociety
          ... Perhaps we could say It s all a matter of activity and reactivity secondary to our point of view, our perception. The ancient illustration of Advaita,
          Message 4 of 5 , Oct 3, 2010
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            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513" <faithearden@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sandeep chatterjee
            > <sandeep1960@> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > That you are awake and alive is itself a concept, at this moment.
            > > Go back to the source, before this concept arose, what was your state?
            > >
            > > I don't know.
            >
            > Faithe: Isn't thinking that one can/should go back to the source BEFORE
            > this concept arose, just another concept? Isn't the not knowing what
            > that state was, also a concept? More mulberry bush circling.
            > >
            > > That which you don't know is the true state.
            >
            > Faithe: How does one know that they don't know? Isn't this "true state"
            > of "don't know" another concept?
            > >
            > > Everything that comes after this consciousnesses arises, is useless,
            > > consciousnesses is useless.
            >
            > Faithe: How does one realize non-consciousness? Isn't labeling
            > consciousness as "useless", also a concept?
            > >
            > >
            > > So the search, all aspects of it belong the same?
            >
            > Faithe: Even the searching for "non-searching"?
            > >
            > > Throw away every thought, every experience, everything that happens
            > after this consciousness has risen.
            >
            > Faithe: To do this, one would have to realize that "state" prior to
            > consciousness, which is not possible.
            > >
            > > Other than throwing it away as useless, there is nothing to be done
            > beyond this understanding in which you are more and more absorbed.
            > >
            > Faithe: Thinking that one has thrown it (thoughts, experience, etc.
            > prior to consciousness) is just another aspect of consciousness, is it
            > not?
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > In the jnani beingness has reached the state of no-beingness, still
            > appearances will happen, how will one act?
            >
            > Faithe: One will act just as before, no change, no difference, other
            > than perhaps trying to fool oneself that they do not exist.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > It is something like the dream world......everything is happening and
            > not only you but nobody is doing anything.
            > >
            >
            > Faithe: Is "dream world" just another aspect of consciousness? And if
            > so, then the dream world must also be thrown away!!! If nobody is doing
            > anything in the dream world, then why do I sometimes wake up exhausted
            > after a stimulating dream?
            >

            Perhaps we could say "It's all a matter of activity and
            reactivity secondary to our point of view, our perception."

            "The ancient illustration of Advaita, of the rope being
            taken for a snake, may elucidate the point a little more.
            When a man mistakes the rope for a snake, the rope has
            vanished, and when he takes it for a rope,the snake has
            vanished, and the rope only remains. The ideas of dual
            or treble existence come from reasoning or insufficient
            data, and we read them in books or hear about them, until
            we come under the delusion that we really have a dual
            perception of the soul and the body; but such a
            perception never really exists. The perception is either
            of the body,or of the soul. It requires no arguments to
            prove it, you can verify it in your own mind."
            Swami Vivekananda
          • sandeep chatterjee
            ... From: medit8ionsociety Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Some tidbit from Nisarga To:
            Message 5 of 5 , Oct 3, 2010
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              --- On Sun, 10/3/10, medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

              From: medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Some tidbit from Nisarga
              To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Sunday, October 3, 2010, 7:40 PM

               



              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513" <faithearden@...> wrote:


              <SNIP>

              >
              > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sandeep chatterjee
              > <sandeep1960@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > That you are awake and alive is itself a concept, at this moment.
              > > Go back to the source, before this concept arose, what was your state?
              > >
              > > I don't know.
              >

              Perhaps we could say "It's all a matter of activity and
              reactivity secondary to our point of view, our perception."

              "The ancient illustration of Advaita, of the rope being
              taken for a snake, may elucidate the point a little more.
              When a man mistakes the rope for a snake, the rope has
              vanished, and when he takes it for a rope,the snake has
              vanished, and the rope only remains. The ideas of dual
              or treble existence come from reasoning or insufficient
              data, and we read them in books or hear about them, until
              we come under the delusion that we really have a dual
              perception of the soul and the body; but such a
              perception never really exists. The perception is either
              of the body,or of the soul. It requires no arguments to
              prove it, you can verify it in your own mind."
              Swami Vivekananda


              ----------


              Yes Bob.

              What arises as verbalization, articulation, or in this medium,........ squiggly signs moving from screens to screens via routers, cables and satellite linkages...

              ....is indeed conceptual entertainment.


              Yet the correct way

              (so to say, as really there is no correct or incorrect way).....

              .....is to accept what is prattled .......totally on faith.


              And to note the immediately arising thought(s)......

              " Whoa Whoa Whoa.......what, is this another brain-washing cult that I have to accept on blind faith?

              Who the hell is anybody to tell me, ME to accept anything?

              Do I, ........I who have succeeded in life, kicked ass , taken no shit from nobody....using my knowledge, experiences, intellect, reasoning ability, physical prowess   ......

              am I stupid, do I not have brains?

              If these guys cannot prove on MY terms what they prattle, they are all assholes , spouting bogus crap  "

              etc etc etc.


              The usual defense when there is a sense of a threat to one's identity, aka one's very sense of existence. 

              :-)


              Yes, accept totally on faith.

              And further accept that such a vision( to use a mere term) as displayed by the particular verbalization....


              ....is NOT apparent here "in me".


              And then to look at what is it that obstructs such a vision to dawn "here-in-me".



              For example.......rather than ........is this not a concept, is that not a concept...et al.......


              ....the repentance(which is not the usual connotation of a guilt laden remorse but means a re-turning)...


              ....the re-turn..........of the focus ........as to who is it....... to whom all this verbalization is a concept.


              To whom is the phantasmagoria  of the array of the perceived .....

              ....such an existential reality....


              ....that the very suggestion that it's all fluff .....

              .....is anathema?


              Is there a loci........ where the very questioner .......questioning the conceptuality of the verbalization....


              ....can be anchored?


              Whatever be the answer to the above........ that thought creates....

              ......who is it that took delivery of that latest answer....

              ....where did that latest answer get anchored?



              And the apperception.......

              .......that there is neither  been ever the thought of conceptuality....

              ... nor the absence of any such thought.



              That is a Guru( a remover of the apparent surrounding darkness)...

              ...and a Guru need not only be of the sentient biological variety...


              ...which throws oneself back to oneself....

              ....i.e. enables the arising and abets the perpetuation of ....

              ....repentance.


              A repentance which consumes both the sense of a perceiver and it's innate belief in the reality of it's individuated existence.......


              ......AND...... consumes the sense of the perceived, whose existence is held to be so real.

              Both sense of realities, lending each other ........the fuel...

              ....for both to seem to continue to persist.


              As a display of what such a drama would be like.......


              ......if ........


              .....such a drama could ever be enacted on some stage of primordial proportions.




              .

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