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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Compassion

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  • sean tremblay
    Sandeep I agree, with the points you have made, and I only brought up Afghanistan because of the mention of Islam and Democracy in the first post.  I also
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 6, 2010
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      Sandeep
      I agree, with the points you have made, and I only brought up Afghanistan because of the mention of Islam and Democracy in the first post.  I also agree that this is not a forum for discussing geopolitics, but it seems to be hinted at from time to time, so I chimed in.  Religion can be a powerful thing and it can anchor us and give us a sense of place and belonging.  I would never presume to take that away from anybody, but all religions have turned thier teaching into tools of destruction at one time or another.  In discussing compassion I personally believe that we have some obligation to one another, so I ask the question, When practicing compassion in the world, how far should your compassion extend or is thier a border for that as well a sort of spiritual "Durand" line?
      --- On Tue, 7/6/10, Sandeep <sandeep1960@...> wrote:

      From: Sandeep <sandeep1960@...>
      Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Compassion
      To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, July 6, 2010, 1:48 AM

       


      Hi Sean,

      I am sure humaneness guided your thoughts and actions while discharging your duties as a soldier.

      However, I believe this is not the forum where the geo-politics can be discussed... .

      ... the geo-politics and the real objectives  ....which have driven the actions in the last 100 years of all the Colonial Powers, whether that is the British, or the US or the Soviets...in producing the "Talibans" for each side... in what is known as the "Great Game" in the regions of central Asia, including Afghanistan.



      You stated Islam is a state.

      Well, the term "Islam" connotes one who has surrendered.

      In surrender... ...there is no "to" in the surrender.

      Or "by".

      Which makes mockery of the justifications of the actions which are enacted these days under the so called sanctification of Islam

      The use of the ideology known as  "Islam" (or Hinduism, or Christianity) as a tool to establish an organization which is nothing but a power structure with it's innate need to perpetuate and to spread the area of influence... .

      ..... is no different to the use of another ideology known as "democracy" .......to establish power structures which has the same needs.

      And with all the same attendant "ugliness".


      Democracy as a principle of governance whereby the people's will and wishes are to be represented and enacted in each and every aspect of governance
      whether that be economics, welfare, politics,  relationships between nations, social-value systems  etc etc........does not exist anywhere.

      The very process of mandate selection which is to execute the principles of democracy is the starting corruption of the very principles.

      Whether that be White House or Whitehall or New Delhi.




      sean tremblay wrote:

       

        First thing, I would state is that I believe that compassion is a natural state for the human "Being"  anyone who has kids or can remember there early childhood knows this from observation.  There is a reason for this, we are a communal animal that relies on one another for survival.  We are not a solitary creature.  Bonds formed by love and compassion are completely necessary.  The lack of compassion is the result of internalizing external forces.
        Second thing, war Democracy/Allah as stated below.  I have to speak on this having been a soldier and a combat veteran.  It is not that simple. Islam is not a state it is a religion and like every religion there are a thousand ways of practicing that religion.  Democracy is not a state it is a philosophy of governance and economics.  Which can again manifest itself in a number of ways.  As a soldier from a democratic state, I can firmly say that "Obliteration" and "Genocide" has NEVER been a part of my mission statement, never been a part of my objective nor have I acted as a representative to any organization that authorizes or approves or even desires "Genocide" and "Obliteration" .  Lets look at what the forces of Democracy are doing in Afghanistan.  After a coup the King was taken out of power and a "Republic was established by his cousin, this republic was challenged and defeated within two years by Communists based in Kabul.  Communism was challenged by tribal leaders and traditionalists mostly from the Rural Pashtun populations.  In a nut shell the country a once popular tourist destination and suppler of wheat for all of Asia descended into chaos.  The Russians intervened on behalf of the Communist regime. As we all know in a very heavy handed way, they deliberastly attacked the food supply, they mined the crap out of the country side and destroyed a nation.  When the Russians pulled out the country was left in chaos, War lords battled for control and the people suffered.  In walked the Taliban from Pakistan, they brought order from chaos through fear, public execution, and violence.
      Currently the Afghan government and the Afghan constitution was written by and is run by Afghans.  They have chosen an "Islamic Republic" we have made no effort to push an American style democracy.  Also the goals of the Taliban and the other terrorist groups differ.  Al Queda wants a pan Islamic Caliphate with the head I'm sure being in Saudi Arabia, the Taliban wants control of Afghanistan, Religion is a motivator.  Currently the Taliban rule in areas where the Police, and other authorities don't have a strong presence.  And again they rule through fear, murder and intimidation, so I ask is it NOT compassionate to intervene on behalf of the people who suffer.  I have gone over every act of violence I was part of in Afghanistan every day   anylizing my actions.  I know that the safety and well being of the people I was charged to protect was first and foremost in my mind and that was the consideration I took on every action, I never dehumanized my enemy, so when it came to engage them and drive them out it was in knowing that by stopping them, I might save the lives of many, girls might go to school and not fear acid thrown in there faces, farmers will be able to feed there families, Men will not be murdered and women not be beaten.   I didnt do it for democracy, I did it for the Afghans!
      If that is not compassion I don't know what is, and I don't care

      -


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    • Sandeep
      Hi Sean, ... Like the Durand line exists only in the imagination (and people are ready to kill for such figments of thought).. ..the belief that compassion can
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 7, 2010
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        Hi Sean,



        sean tremblay wrote:
         

        Sandeep
        I agree, with the points you have made, and I only brought up Afghanistan because of the mention of Islam and Democracy in the first post.  I also agree that this is not a forum for discussing geopolitics, but it seems to be hinted at from time to time, so I chimed in.  Religion can be a powerful thing and it can anchor us and give us a sense of place and belonging.  I would never presume to take that away from anybody, but all religions have turned thier teaching into tools of destruction at one time or another.  In discussing compassion I personally believe that we have some obligation to one another, so I ask the question, When practicing compassion in the world, how far should your compassion extend or is thier a border for that as well a sort of spiritual "Durand" line?



        Like the Durand line exists only in the imagination (and people are ready to kill for such figments of thought)..

        ..the belief that compassion can be practiced and the immediate co-created question with that belief..........as to how much or how long can such practices be continued......is creativity of thought.

        Aka......don't I have a personal life to lead.......or is it only a constant Hail Sister Mary act to be laboured at?



        When there is no defining of what compassionate acts or practices are........there is no sense of a pursuit of "doing compassion".

        There is thus no created story around what  is unfolding.......as to what it stands for....... thus the absence of a stake, absence of an agenda.

        And thus an absence of thought aka "how far or how long to go"


        There is a milieu of existing, in which some who enters that milieu, that ambit........ experiences compassion, empathy, benediction...

        ... quite irrespective of whatever action took place or did not take place.


        Now to an on-looker, whatever is unfolding might appear as cold, indifferent, ordinary, limited, temporary.

        Or as deep warmth, extraordinary sympathy, compassionate acts of the greatest heights........ unlimited, perpetual.


        To the milieu of existing......there is neither the "other".

        And thus neither a sense of exchange with this no-other.

        With no sense of exchange, there is no defining of such an no-exchange(as warm or cold etc).

        Nor the limitation of time or space for such no-exchange.

        There is no sense of a need to turn it "on" or "off".

        And thus in the absence of limitation, even "unlimited" has no meaning.


        For the milieu of existing which went under the label......Jesus.....there was neither the leper to healed, or the dead to be raised, or the rabble to be whipped in the corridors of the temple.

        Healing, compassion, love, empathy......was the constant raining........irrespective of the recipient or the manner in which it poured.




        So what about regular Joe, struggling to make it through to the next paycheck.

        Faced with a situation which has a scope for whatever form of empathy or compassion to arise and extend........one does whatever one is moved to.

        In whatever form and in whatever measure.

        And for whatever time ....one is moved to.

        Knowing that no matter what did get to unfold.......in precisely the manner it did.....

        ......it could not have been different ......to what did get played out.


        Moment to moment to moment.




      • medit8ionsociety
        An ancient Buddhist meditation technique that is applicable to any religion and even to the non-religious, is wonderful at teaching appreciation and compassion
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 15, 2013
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          An ancient Buddhist meditation technique that is applicable to any religion and even to the non-religious, is wonderful at teaching appreciation and compassion for others.

          Here is how t is done:


          Survival depends on the efforts of other people. Relax your mind, body, and emotions and contemplate on all the ways you are dependent on others.


          For example, if no one grew grain and no one brought it to market and no one manufactured it into bread, how would we eat? If no one dug up metal from the earth and no one turned it into steel and no one formed it into parts, how would we have a car to drive? And if no one cleared land and no one paved over it, how would we have a road to drive on? And so on and so on.


          With this meditation, one becomes warm toward others where previously coldness, uncaring, or even looking down upon others existed. The meditative tradition holds that compassion and humility are the two most important components of spritiual growth. This meditation generates both.

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