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[Meditation Society of America] Re: Swami Sivananda on signs of spiritual evolution

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  • tarah513
    Dear Aileen. Please see my comments below. ... taking ... that s me I don t see the necessity for you to be dismayed because I thought they were putting me
    Message 1 of 40 , May 21, 2010
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      Dear Aileen.

      Please see my comments below.


      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Aideen Mckenna" <aideenmck@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Faithe,
      >
      >
      >
      > What I was/am saying is that I'm dismayed that you seem to be taking
      > offence. I didn't see anything hurtful in their comments, but that's me

      I don't see the necessity for you to be "dismayed" because I thought they were putting me down. Tell me, would you have felt dismayed if I felt they were putting me down and did not address that? No, you would not, because you would not know in that case how I felt. So, instead of feeling dismayed, perhaps you should be feeling joy that I had the courage to speak up and clear the air. As I said, NOTHING was intentional, but subconsciously there were things going on, or perceived as going on. Nothing wrong with bringing them.

       

      > And maybe you aren't offended after all & I'm misreading your words.

      I don't know if I was offended or not. I don't think so. I just observed something and brought it out in the open. Perhaps I must have been offended given that I did address it. Does it matter whether or not I was offended?

      If
      > you're feeling that you were/are offended, I feel sad.

      Believe me, Aileen, there are a lot more devastating things going on to be sad about! You should really feel happy that I did not keep quiet and let it fester.

      I hope you don't
      > find this group unwelcoming. It's been a help to me as I lurch along.

      That is good Aileen. But a "welcoming" group does not necessarily mean that everyone's views and comments are accepted 100%. A welcoming group, in my mind, is one that allows anyone to bring up anything...no matter how uncomfortable or painful, and not be attacked, but rather two-way communication can take place and all are left standing whole - no one has to "give in" in order to be accepted.

      I feel grateful that I could speak up without the fear of retribution.

       

      > Written words on a screen or a paper page are nowhere close to a substitute
      > for a gathering of people in a space. Body language is missing, facial
      > expressions... I no longer understand what's going on in the conversation &
      > I think I'm not contributing anything useful. I hope I haven't been a cause
      > for any loss of peace.

      Rest peacefully! You can no more cause the loss of peace for anyone than direct the weather to bid your will.

      I hope you have learned from this experience. That is why I asked you the question which you did not address...

      ......passing by the flabbergast stage, what are you picking up now?  Is it guilt that you may have been the cause of this lack of peace?

      Love to you Aileen. You sound very young. Keep the youthfulness throughout life.

      Faithe

      >
      >
      >
      > Love & peace,
      >
      > Aideen
      >
      >
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tarah513
      > Sent: May-21-10 12:37 PM
      > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Swami Sivananda on signs of
      > spiritual evolution
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Dear Aideen,
      >
      > I am sure that you were no more flabbergasted that I was to learn that Bob
      > found my postings ( intended for encouragement to look at it from another
      > perspective) as negative and to Sean as how he saw me as he viewed himself
      > eons ago, before his travels through life. I might add that he was quick to
      > respond he is no where near completion or understanding.
      >
      > So why didn't Sean just reply, "here is what has happened to me, here is
      > where I am now, here is what I am growing towards, thanks for sharing your
      > thoughts".
      >
      > The response of my comments were no more intentional than I think that Bob's
      > & Sean's were as my perceived "put-downs". It just goes to show that perhaps
      > we all need to reflect on why this occurred.
      >
      > So then, past the flabbergasted stage, what do you pick up now?
      >
      > Faithe
      >
      >
      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Aideen Mckenna"
      > aideenmck@ wrote:
      > >
      > > Oh Dear Faithe!
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > I'm utterly flabbergasted to read that you regard Bob's & Sean's helpful,
      > > friendly, affectionate comments to you as put-downs!!
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Aideen
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > _____
      > >
      > > From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
      > > [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tarah513
      > > Sent: May-21-10 6:44 AM
      > > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Swami Sivananda on signs of
      > > spiritual evolution
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Hello!
      > >
      > > I just have a couple of comments.
      > >
      > > First, you state how you struggled with the "attachment" in Afghanistan
      > and
      > > how difficult it was to let go. I suggest that perhaps you just let one
      > > attachment (a type of thought, living style) for another (the buddhist
      > > route). You call it detached from the old ego & growing a new ego.
      > >
      > > Second, you, as well as others, DO put me down. You did so in your comment
      > > that that you had to chuckle at some of my comments because it reminded
      > you
      > > of yourself when you first arrived. [Interpretation: go on Faithe, we are
      > > here to help you, eventually, if you are spiritual enough you will come to
      > > the higher level of consciousness way of thinking/being, see Buddha's Way
      > or
      > > Christianity, etc.]
      > >
      > > Bob did the same thing yesterday to me when he made the comment about how
      > > others affected him (in a positive manner, whereas I affected him
      > negatively
      > > was strongly inferred). IF this unattachment were truly achieved, would
      > one
      > > really have the differentiation? I answered Bob in a manner that later I
      > did
      > > not like, as I allowed myself to be pulled into the same mode.
      > >
      > > As long as it is perceived that there is a "right/comfortable" way vs. the
      > > opposite, then unattachment is NOT present. Unattachment is a figment of
      > the
      > > imagination (as so many things are) as a means to an end (gaining a higher
      > > level of spiritual evolvement) when in the whole scheme of things is
      > totally
      > > meaningless because... who can really measure spiritual levels? No one
      > can,
      > > and never has. There are millions of books of how to do it, showing the
      > > endless journey(s) & paths that people can partake to arrive settled on
      > the
      > > spiritual station. I have yet to meet a highly evolved "spiritual"
      > > person...still waiting (here I chuckle).
      > >
      > > I am the most highly evolved spiritual person that I know...as it should
      > be.
      > > Perhaps each of you feel the same way about yourselves.
      > >
      > > Thank you.
      > >
      > > Faithe
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
      > > bethjams9@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hi Faithe,  This is Sean here and I read somewhere in this chapter
      > > something about killing and SE Asia, that happens to be something I know
      > > something about. Â But this is how it relates to the Ego and being
      > > un-attached. Â many on this sight come from a buddhist or hindu outlook I
      > > use christian terminology mostly because I'm familiar with it but the use
      > of
      > > metaphor and symbol is not important. Â I had to chucle at some of your
      > > coments because when I first joined I was constantly taking people to task
      > > on thier comments, I had a prove it sucka attitude to just about
      > everything,
      > > I think I even remember saying "Blah blah blah insert sancrit and it makes
      > > you right"But back to the ego thing.....Non attachment to me does not mean
      > > withdrawing from life, but experiencing life in a whole new way, or taking
      > > shit as it is and not what you want it to be. Â Like kids do. Â I like to
      > > refer to the story of the garden of Eden when we had no knowlege of good
      > and
      > > evil we
      > > > just were, LIVING and Being without the burdon(toil) of judgement, a
      > state
      > > of life wherte do don't cling to things. Â Sometimes stuff sucks but it
      > > passes if you let it. Â The day goes on the sun rises in the morning and
      > the
      > > bad shit fades also it is imperminent unless you live it over and over
      > again
      > > in your thoughts and feelings...That is attachment. Â I bake a cake do I
      > > worry about the cake being gone someday, no I just enjoy the cake for what
      > > it is at this moment. Â So I supose attachement works two ways. Â Oh yea
      > > back to Killing in SE Asia, Â I was there last year on a working vacation,
      > > and there was plenty of killing going on, I had become detached from my
      > old
      > > ego and developed a new one! I became a person needed for a specific job.
      > Â
      > > I was a mentor to the Afghan National Police and I lived and worked and
      > > fought in the rural villages of southern Afghanistan. Â I bagan to feel a
      > > part of it I forgot who I was as time went on I started to go kinda
      > > > native, I was consulted at tribal shuras I was becoming something else,
      > I
      > > was obseesed with my work, I often went days without sleeping there was to
      > > much to do, pople to feed and defend, lives to watch over and injustice to
      > > fight, the contrst of peace and chaos violence and hospitality became
      > normal
      > > to me I earned a new name! when It was time to leave I became depressed my
      > > old ego had been obliterated, and my new one was no longer usefull. Â My
      > > work I felt was not over how could it be people were still suffering!When
      > I
      > > came home nobody knew the new ego they expected the old one that had left,
      > > but he was gone. Â For months I clung to my Afghan persona, and I played
      > > back in my head every thought word and deed. Â I began to question myself
      > > did I do the right things say the right things because one has to tread
      > > carefully around others our actions have an effect nd they are rooted in
      > our
      > > thoughts and feelings! Â I was attached to Afghanistan and a person who
      > > > I thought I had become, I was attached to the shock of comming home and
      > to
      > > the feelings of self pity and dought. Â It was the worst example of
      > killing
      > > the ego, if you just hap hazardly destroy your sense of self something
      > will
      > > fill that void and you may not like it!The point is things happen and they
      > > move through us good and bad and they all paas non stay, un-attachment is
      > > simply moving with instead of against ie, not swimming up stream.Sorry I
      > > have been rambling ...long night at work!Khoda HafezSean
      > > >
      > > > --- On Thu, 5/20/10, dan330033 dan330033@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > > From: dan330033 dan330033@
      > > > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Swami Sivananda on signs of
      > > spiritual evolution
      > > > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Date: Thursday, May 20, 2010, 6:16 PM
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Â
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
      > > hanifshekhem@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Yo!
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Thank you all for the contemplation on attachment. Dan's wisdom is
      > > greatly appreci-loved. And, as usual, when i read Faithe's responses they
      > > reveal my attaching ideas, thoughts, beliefs, and limited perceptions in
      > > this earthly reality. It reminds me of how the lotus flower emerges from
      > the
      > > muck and mire each day to reach its full expression.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > What i meditated on from Dan's love re attachment:
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > -One living instantaneously/timelessly has no existence in a realm
      > > >
      > > > > > where words are being produced and read.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > -There is no other to tell this to.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > -one living *such* is free, beyond freedom or boundedness --
      > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > > > is not followed by the past and karma ...
      > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > > > yet has no motive not to be simply present as is, without division
      > > ...
      > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > > > thus no motive for deception ...
      > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > > > nothing to be gained, nor avoided, nor proved, nor shown to
      > > "another"
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Beautiful!
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > ONE!
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Yo!
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Nice to be heard!
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > - Dan -
      > > >
      > >
      >

    • dan330033
      ... D: Unless one is not attached. ... D: Yes, words develop, as does thought. ... D: It depends on what you mean by peace. If peace is taken as
      Message 40 of 40 , May 24, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513" <faithearden@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Words (sound or written) indeed are vibrations, but are not "just
        > vibrations". They are one of the methods used to communicate that to
        > which one is attached.

        D: Unless one is not attached.

        > It is a tool that has been developed and used
        > (not always successfully, I might add).

        D: Yes, words develop, as does thought.

        > On peace, well, we certainly don't have it here, so I am guessing it is
        > no where - "as it is above, so it is below".

        D: It depends on what you mean by "peace." If "peace" is taken as undivided being aware, then peace is directly clear. If "peace" is taken as all people on the earth not harming each other, not manipulating, not stealing, not deceiving, not assaulting, etc. - then clearly one does not observe peace as what is occuring in the world.

        Being aware above as below, there is no division, and no outside or inside - call this by whatever name seems to fit the conversation of the moment, such as being, awareness, peace, love, or like the Taoists "the uncarved block."

        Doesn't matter very much what you call it -.

        At heart, there is no name for this - just the being of it.

        - Dan -

        > Faithe
        >
        >
        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "dan330033"
        > <dan330033@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
        > faithearden@ wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > > Hi Dan.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > A little bit of snipping...
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "dan330033"
        > > > > > <dan330033@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > D: Words are fun. Nothing to be attached to.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I disagree. Words ARE fun, but don't agree with the rest.
        > > > >
        > > > > D: You are disagreeing with your own idea of what the
        > > > > words mean, which you are inventing.
        > > > >
        > > > > And if your disagreement with yourself stops -
        > > > > no "other" can be found to disagree with.
        > > >
        > > > What I am saying is that words spoken are the attachment.
        > >
        > > D: Words spoken are just vibrations produced in the air by the human
        > larynx.
        > >
        > > As "others"
        > > > question the attachment, there is where the acceptance,
        > defensiveness or
        > > > argumentative stance is taken. The agreement that I stated is that
        > words
        > > > ARE fun in that they allow attachments to be voiced. We all love our
        > > > attachments, whether toys, ideas, religions or grandiose spiritual
        > > > endeavors.
        > >
        > > D: Words are just one of many, many ways that vibrating reverbations
        > move though the universe.
        > >
        > > > >
        > > > > > > Being isn't an affective state.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > If it is not, than how can one determine whether one is "being"
        > or
        > > > > > not?????
        > > > >
        > > > > D: One doesn't determine anything. One is still. Being.
        > > >
        > > > Sure...great words Dan. Your words. Your attachment. See, it is fun!
        > >
        > > D: Even beyond fun - it is love.
        > >
        > > > What is not fun is that I question your attachment. Granted it is
        > YOUR
        > > > belief and after you read this it will still be YOUR belief. Perhaps
        > we
        > > > are using the term "one" to denote different things. Now how fun is
        > > > that! We not only use the same words, but those words mean totally
        > > > different things to each of us.
        > >
        > > D: Meanings arise in the moment. Like all perceiving, meanings are in
        > flux. No meaning to attach to. No no-meaning to attach to. Just being.
        > >
        > > > > > > > Personally, I read this, shook my head and mumbled to
        > > > > > myself..."thought
        > > > > > > > running amok".
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > D: Running amok, in Southeast Asia where the concept
        > > > > > > started, had to do with uncontrollable rage and killing
        > people.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Thought just appears, disappears, though - with nothing
        > > > > > > to kill or be killed involved.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Isn't that your experience?
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I did think that at one time, experience showed otherwise.
        > > > >
        > > > > D: That's just memory, that notion about something that was shown
        > > > > - this is not a memory, this being that
        > > > > shines through immediacy of experience.
        > > >
        > > > Bringing new ideas to kill off old ideas is indeed killing, and can
        > do
        > > > more damage than just the removal of a few hundred thousand bodies.
        > >
        > > D: Well, if ideas of killing ideas suit you, ideate about killing
        > ideas. If that ceases to be fun, such thinking ceases. Now, nothing to
        > kill or be killed. Just thoughtless peace. An idea arises, dissolves.
        > Nothing was killed. Peace is.
        > >
        > > It
        > > > all depends on the ideas. There are good and evil ideas. Ideas have
        > the
        > > > capacity to totally control and totally wipeout millions. I have
        > noted
        > > > this directly in my life experiences.
        > >
        > > D: When ideas about control no longer attract or repulse, no
        > controlling entities need to be imagined. The fear of no one being in
        > control dissolves into peace.
        > >
        > > > > > Take care Dan.
        > > > >
        > > > > D: I care. But I don't take care.
        > > > >
        > > > > Be well, Faithe.
        > > > >
        > > > > - Dan
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Take care Dan.
        > > >
        > > > I could say (cleverly, I might add) I am well, but I am not being
        > well.
        > >
        > > D: I am being. Well, well, well.
        > >
        > > > Words...fun, fun, fun.
        > >
        > > D: Till Daddy takes my T-Bird away.
        > >
        > > Not to worry though - I'm in free-fall anyway.
        > >
        > > > Love you Dan!
        > >
        > > Love you Faithe!
        > >
        > > - D -
        > >
        >
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