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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Swami Sivananda on signs of spiritual evolution

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  • tarah513
    Hi Aideen, Thank you so much for the reference. I reviewed it. I know, Buddhism has been around a long, long time and I should accept it or just shut up. I
    Message 1 of 40 , May 20, 2010

      Hi Aideen,

      Thank you so much for the reference.

      I reviewed it. I know, Buddhism has been around a long, long time and I should accept it or just shut up. I mean the audacity of me to think I could know something more than Buddha.

      I don't accept what has been offered. I will not argue why. Maybe I truly have achieved a type of "unattachment" where these writings are concerned. I have no interest in having others accept my opinions and for others to understand where I am coming from. I do, however, like to share with others.

      I offer this based on my life experiences...

      We all go through this "acquiring things" stage. I do not look at that as unhealthy or stressful. There is a time for doing this. Let me tell you, I have had more fun collecting things, buying gifts for others, making sure my son had schooling and all the other things that kids love to have. Let me offer this tidbit...during the past few years I have been preparing for my death. I am having MORE fun now sharing what I have collected  through life - giving away things to others who are in a stage of their life where these "things" can be used and going to an ever more simplistic life. Everytime I clear out something, I breathe a huge sigh of relief. I am happy to see it go...I am happy to see the happy people who get the things.

      We are always collecting...if not ideas, then things. Tell me, do you cling to the books you have on spirituality and meditation? Do you think there is always another book, a little more profound than the last that can really, really help you "get it"? Is there a guru you are just dying to meet, or do you have one now that you just can't imagine being without?

      Freedom occurred when I removed these types of things/ideas, as well, out of my life.

      You sound so very sincere. I do not write this to attack you or your beloved beliefs. I write it to share what happened to me, (me, separate from you). If we were not separate, we would not be experiencing different things. We each are born to the mundane, and then we die and leave the mundane. I meditate continually on that simplistic sentence.

      Love to you,

      Faithe

      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Aideen Mckenna" <aideenmck@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Faithe,
      >
      >
      >
      > You might find this useful:
      >
      >
      >
      > http://buddhism.about.com/od/basicbuddhistteachings/a/attachment.htm
      >
      >
      >
      > May you experience freedom from clinging & aversion. There's a bottomless
      > ocean of peace to which you have access any/every moment. Paradoxically,
      > you discover it when you let go. The Buddha said: "Think of nothing as I,
      > me, mine.". That's letting go. One can let go now - & it's always now!
      >
      > Aideen
      >
      >
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tarah513
      > Sent: May-20-10 3:52 AM
      > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Swami Sivananda on signs of
      > spiritual evolution
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Hi Dan.
      >
      > WOW...
      >
      > Tell me, you know all this, how?
      >
      > A lot of words (attachment) used to discussed unattachment!
      >
      > Are you happy...or is that something one who is not attached does not
      > contemplate?
      >
      > Personally, I read this, shook my head and mumbled to myself..."thought
      > running amok".
      >
      > Nice to "see" you.
      >
      > Faithe
      >
      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "dan330033"
      > dan330033@ wrote:
      > >
      > > > --- On Tue, 5/18/10, tarah513 faithearden@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > > From: tarah513 faithearden@
      > > > Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Swami Sivananda on signs of
      > spiritual evolution
      > > > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 7:03 PM
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > I don't know if we are all attached to suffering, but it appears that
      > the majority of humans are attached to staying alive on Earth! Isn't that
      > the "ultimate attachment"? Attached to not giving up the body!
      > > > All these spiritual guru's can preach all they want about attachment.
      > For me, it is meaningless. Unless one is ready, ABLE and willing to leave
      > this life, there is attachment.
      > > > Faithe
      > >
      > > One is unattached when there is no other, no thing, to be attached to.
      > >
      > > If you're aware of something to be attached to, you are attached.
      > >
      > > There is no such thing as a human body to be attached to, until a human
      > body is formulated as something existing, something continuing.
      > >
      > > That formulation takes time to come together, even if simply coming
      > together as a basic feeling of something that is wet or cold, warm or
      > hurting.
      > >
      > > One living instantaneously/timelessly has no time for things to come
      > together or fall apart.
      > >
      > > There is no body, nor mind, nor world, nor self, to be attached to.
      > >
      > > There is no sense of not being attached.
      > >
      > > There is no other to tell this to.
      > >
      > > Words form o n a screen.
      > >
      > > It takes time for words to form and be read.
      > >
      > > One living instantaneously/timelessly has no existence in a realm where
      > words are being produced and read.
      > >
      > > Yet, words being produced and read, appearing and disappearing, make no
      > difference at all.
      > >
      > > They are not things to be attached to or not attached to.
      > >
      > > One living instantaneously/timelessly without attachment nor possessing
      > anything to be attached to ...
      > >
      > > is not likely to yell "fire" in a crowded theater, or plan ways to steal
      > someone's wallet ...
      > >
      > > one living *such* is free, beyond freedom or boundedness --
      > >
      > > is not followed by the past and karma ...
      > >
      > > yet has no motive not to be simply present as is, without division ...
      > >
      > > thus no motive for deception ...
      > >
      > > nothing to be gained, nor avoided, nor proved, nor shown to "another" ...
      > >
      > > - D -
      > >
      >

    • dan330033
      ... D: Unless one is not attached. ... D: Yes, words develop, as does thought. ... D: It depends on what you mean by peace. If peace is taken as
      Message 40 of 40 , May 24, 2010
        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513" <faithearden@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Words (sound or written) indeed are vibrations, but are not "just
        > vibrations". They are one of the methods used to communicate that to
        > which one is attached.

        D: Unless one is not attached.

        > It is a tool that has been developed and used
        > (not always successfully, I might add).

        D: Yes, words develop, as does thought.

        > On peace, well, we certainly don't have it here, so I am guessing it is
        > no where - "as it is above, so it is below".

        D: It depends on what you mean by "peace." If "peace" is taken as undivided being aware, then peace is directly clear. If "peace" is taken as all people on the earth not harming each other, not manipulating, not stealing, not deceiving, not assaulting, etc. - then clearly one does not observe peace as what is occuring in the world.

        Being aware above as below, there is no division, and no outside or inside - call this by whatever name seems to fit the conversation of the moment, such as being, awareness, peace, love, or like the Taoists "the uncarved block."

        Doesn't matter very much what you call it -.

        At heart, there is no name for this - just the being of it.

        - Dan -

        > Faithe
        >
        >
        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "dan330033"
        > <dan330033@> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
        > faithearden@ wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > > Hi Dan.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > A little bit of snipping...
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "dan330033"
        > > > > > <dan330033@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > D: Words are fun. Nothing to be attached to.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I disagree. Words ARE fun, but don't agree with the rest.
        > > > >
        > > > > D: You are disagreeing with your own idea of what the
        > > > > words mean, which you are inventing.
        > > > >
        > > > > And if your disagreement with yourself stops -
        > > > > no "other" can be found to disagree with.
        > > >
        > > > What I am saying is that words spoken are the attachment.
        > >
        > > D: Words spoken are just vibrations produced in the air by the human
        > larynx.
        > >
        > > As "others"
        > > > question the attachment, there is where the acceptance,
        > defensiveness or
        > > > argumentative stance is taken. The agreement that I stated is that
        > words
        > > > ARE fun in that they allow attachments to be voiced. We all love our
        > > > attachments, whether toys, ideas, religions or grandiose spiritual
        > > > endeavors.
        > >
        > > D: Words are just one of many, many ways that vibrating reverbations
        > move though the universe.
        > >
        > > > >
        > > > > > > Being isn't an affective state.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > If it is not, than how can one determine whether one is "being"
        > or
        > > > > > not?????
        > > > >
        > > > > D: One doesn't determine anything. One is still. Being.
        > > >
        > > > Sure...great words Dan. Your words. Your attachment. See, it is fun!
        > >
        > > D: Even beyond fun - it is love.
        > >
        > > > What is not fun is that I question your attachment. Granted it is
        > YOUR
        > > > belief and after you read this it will still be YOUR belief. Perhaps
        > we
        > > > are using the term "one" to denote different things. Now how fun is
        > > > that! We not only use the same words, but those words mean totally
        > > > different things to each of us.
        > >
        > > D: Meanings arise in the moment. Like all perceiving, meanings are in
        > flux. No meaning to attach to. No no-meaning to attach to. Just being.
        > >
        > > > > > > > Personally, I read this, shook my head and mumbled to
        > > > > > myself..."thought
        > > > > > > > running amok".
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > D: Running amok, in Southeast Asia where the concept
        > > > > > > started, had to do with uncontrollable rage and killing
        > people.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Thought just appears, disappears, though - with nothing
        > > > > > > to kill or be killed involved.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Isn't that your experience?
        > > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I did think that at one time, experience showed otherwise.
        > > > >
        > > > > D: That's just memory, that notion about something that was shown
        > > > > - this is not a memory, this being that
        > > > > shines through immediacy of experience.
        > > >
        > > > Bringing new ideas to kill off old ideas is indeed killing, and can
        > do
        > > > more damage than just the removal of a few hundred thousand bodies.
        > >
        > > D: Well, if ideas of killing ideas suit you, ideate about killing
        > ideas. If that ceases to be fun, such thinking ceases. Now, nothing to
        > kill or be killed. Just thoughtless peace. An idea arises, dissolves.
        > Nothing was killed. Peace is.
        > >
        > > It
        > > > all depends on the ideas. There are good and evil ideas. Ideas have
        > the
        > > > capacity to totally control and totally wipeout millions. I have
        > noted
        > > > this directly in my life experiences.
        > >
        > > D: When ideas about control no longer attract or repulse, no
        > controlling entities need to be imagined. The fear of no one being in
        > control dissolves into peace.
        > >
        > > > > > Take care Dan.
        > > > >
        > > > > D: I care. But I don't take care.
        > > > >
        > > > > Be well, Faithe.
        > > > >
        > > > > - Dan
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Take care Dan.
        > > >
        > > > I could say (cleverly, I might add) I am well, but I am not being
        > well.
        > >
        > > D: I am being. Well, well, well.
        > >
        > > > Words...fun, fun, fun.
        > >
        > > D: Till Daddy takes my T-Bird away.
        > >
        > > Not to worry though - I'm in free-fall anyway.
        > >
        > > > Love you Dan!
        > >
        > > Love you Faithe!
        > >
        > > - D -
        > >
        >
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