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Faithe's Comment on Farming and Meditation

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  • WestWindWood
    Meditation is a lot like farming. You have to have faith that if you make the effort to plant the seed that this is better than barren ground. First you have
    Message 1 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
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      Meditation is a lot like farming. You have to have faith that if you make the effort to plant the seed that this is better than barren ground. First you have to get the ground ready, start fresh by plowing all the weeds under, try to live the best that you can by giving up bad behavior, remove weeds that suck away from the good growth that is to come. You also have to balance the fertilizer to get the best yield possible. Then you plant the seeds; you make the commitment to this kind of future. There are different kinds of good seed, you just have to look around at what you have to work with, your soil and climate, and find the path, the technique, that works best for you. And now there is the weather, you just have to trust the process and take whatever comes. Maybe you can say the weather is effortless because you have no control over it, but at any rate just offer up the problems that occur, weather, and accept what comes.  So you trust the weather, and because of you past karma what ever happens happens, but it will be a learning experience. You keep trying and eventually, if not this year, then next year, you come out and notice that your field has all this new growth and you suddenly see this wonderful vitality; however, now with enlightenment, the wonderment of this vital energy, the work begins. You have studied agriculture, you are not going by guess here, and you know that you have to get to work in earnest and weed that which takes away from the good plantings; also look for insects, like bad friends that take away from your good efforts. Eventually your notice with the harvest that life is getting better, that yes there were problems along the way, but those problems seem like some distant worry that no longer is of concern. Maybe you die and become reincarnated to new land or maybe you work really hard on this particular farm. You have become richer, but now you have to keep at it, do the cycle over and over and become better and better over time. Eventually you become one with the vitality that comes from working the land.

      --- On Sun, 4/4/10, tarah513 <faithearden@...> wrote:

      From: tarah513 <faithearden@...>
      Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
      To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 5:20 PM

       


      --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
      <no_reply@.. .> wrote:
      >
      > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
      > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
      > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
      > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
      >
      HA-HA-HA!!!

      I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me tell
      you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the growing!
      Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing, herbicides,
      insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
      "effortlessly" .

      Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I buy some
      if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.

      Faithe


    • sean tremblay
      Like it ... From: WestWindWood Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Faithe s Comment on Farming and Meditation To:
      Message 2 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
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        Like it

        --- On Tue, 4/6/10, WestWindWood <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:

        From: WestWindWood <westwindwood2003@...>
        Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Faithe's Comment on Farming and Meditation
        To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 12:31 PM

         

        Meditation is a lot like farming. You have to have faith that if you make the effort to plant the seed that this is better than barren ground. First you have to get the ground ready, start fresh by plowing all the weeds under, try to live the best that you can by giving up bad behavior, remove weeds that suck away from the good growth that is to come. You also have to balance the fertilizer to get the best yield possible. Then you plant the seeds; you make the commitment to this kind of future. There are different kinds of good seed, you just have to look around at what you have to work with, your soil and climate, and find the path, the technique, that works best for you. And now there is the weather, you just have to trust the process and take whatever comes. Maybe you can say the weather is effortless because you have no control over it, but at any rate just offer up the problems that occur, weather, and accept what comes.  So you trust the weather, and because of you past karma what ever happens happens, but it will be a learning experience. You keep trying and eventually, if not this year, then next year, you come out and notice that your field has all this new growth and you suddenly see this wonderful vitality; however, now with enlightenment, the wonderment of this vital energy, the work begins. You have studied agriculture, you are not going by guess here, and you know that you have to get to work in earnest and weed that which takes away from the good plantings; also look for insects, like bad friends that take away from your good efforts. Eventually your notice with the harvest that life is getting better, that yes there were problems along the way, but those problems seem like some distant worry that no longer is of concern. Maybe you die and become reincarnated to new land or maybe you work really hard on this particular farm. You have become richer, but now you have to keep at it, do the cycle over and over and become better and better over time. Eventually you become one with the vitality that comes from working the land.

        --- On Sun, 4/4/10, tarah513 <faithearden@ earthlink. net> wrote:


        From: tarah513 <faithearden@ earthlink. net>
        Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
        To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
        Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 5:20 PM

         


        --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
        <no_reply@.. .> wrote:
        >
        > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
        > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
        > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
        > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
        >
        HA-HA-HA!!!

        I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me tell
        you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the growing!
        Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing, herbicides,
        insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
        "effortlessly" .

        Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I buy some
        if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.

        Faithe



      • Papajeff
        Faithe, Nice analogy. I started to perspire just reading it. I grew up on a farm and remember the weeding in the heat of summer and harvesting by hand as a lot
        Message 3 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
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          Faithe,

          Nice analogy. I started to
          perspire just reading it.

          I grew up on a farm and
          remember the weeding in the
          heat of summer and harvesting
          by hand as a lot of work. I
          also remember how delicious
          the fresh fruits and veggies
          tasted - just from the garden.

          Still, the seed, once planted,
          does grow effortlessly. Clearing
          the way and keeping it clear
          in order for the crop to reach
          its fullest potential (of
          enlightenment) is the work on
          our part, as you've so nicely
          stated.

          Meditating is much easier than
          weeding.

          Thanks.

          Jeff



          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, WestWindWood <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
          >
          > Meditation is a lot like farming. You have to have faith that if you make the effort to plant the seed that this is better than barren ground. First you have to get the ground ready, start fresh by plowing all the weeds under, try to live the best that you can by giving up bad behavior, remove weeds that suck away from the good growth that is to come. You also have to balance the fertilizer to get the best yield possible. Then you plant the seeds; you make the commitment to this kind of future. There are different kinds of good seed, you just have to look around at what you have to work with, your soil and climate, and find the path, the technique, that works best for you. And now there is the weather, you just have to trust the process and take whatever comes. Maybe you can say the weather is effortless because you have no control over it, but at any rate just offer up the problems that occur, weather, and accept what comes.  So you trust the weather,
          > and because of you past karma what ever happens happens, but it will be a learning experience. You keep trying and eventually, if not this year, then next year, you come out and notice that your field has all this new growth and you suddenly see this wonderful vitality; however, now with enlightenment, the wonderment of this vital energy, the work begins. You have studied agriculture, you are not going by guess here, and you know that you have to get to work in earnest and weed that which takes away from the good plantings; also look for insects, like bad friends that take away from your good efforts. Eventually your notice with the harvest that life is getting better, that yes there were problems along the way, but those problems seem like some distant worry that no longer is of concern. Maybe you die and become reincarnated to new land or maybe you work really hard on this particular farm. You have become richer, but now you have to keep at it, do the
          > cycle over and over and become better and better over time. Eventually you become one with the vitality that comes from working the land.
          >
          > --- On Sun, 4/4/10, tarah513 <faithearden@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > From: tarah513 <faithearden@...>
          > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
          > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 5:20 PM
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
          > <no_reply@ .> wrote:
          > >
          > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
          > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
          > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
          > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
          > >
          > HA-HA-HA!!!
          >
          > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me tell
          > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the growing!
          > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing, herbicides,
          > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
          > "effortlessly" .
          >
          > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I buy some
          > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
          >
          > Faithe
          >
        • cosmic_yogi1
          Inquiring Faithe, I greet you with love and understanding. The Zen have asked--how can We truly understand verbally? If We go to the words of describing this
          Message 4 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
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            Inquiring Faithe,

            I greet you with love and understanding.

            The Zen have asked--how can We truly understand verbally? If We go to
            the words of describing this or that, how can We truly know it?

            Bob has stated in previous correspondences that "You missed the point by
            being so literal".

            This brings to mind the infamous Zen Koan of 'Emptying your cup'.

            Paraphrasing-- Your cup is too full!--'You are full of your opinions and
            speculations. How can you know the Zen unless you empty your cup?'

            Regarding your problem with what i have offered, i recall several
            metaphores: Is a drop of water from the ocean still the ocean? Hot and
            Cold is still temperature. Yin and Yang is still the Dao.

            Great Masters, Saints and Avatars alike have said that 'We are all
            inexstricably bound and linked to the source'. Life has been the
            greates revealer of this truth. Hence, the 'connectedness to the ALL'.

            As i continue to awake and observe on this journey, in meditation is
            where i realize the 'connectedness to the ALL'. To 'remove' that idea
            from meditation, i believe, misses the point.

            In profound peace,

            ONE


            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
            <faithearden@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > Dear Cosmic.
            >
            > Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along
            that
            > shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
            >
            > My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
            > "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
            >
            > Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness
            idea
            > is removed, what then can be realized?
            >
            > Faithe
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
            > hanifshekhem@ wrote:
            > >
            > > Yo Faithe,
            > > 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
            > the ALL.
            > >
            > > ONE
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
            > faithearden@ wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Hi Cosmic.
            > > >
            > > > What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended
            and
            > it
            > > > is just a label?
            > > >
            > > > Thanks in advance.
            > > >
            > > > Faithe
            > > >
            > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
            > > > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Beloved,
            > > > >
            > > > > Beautifully stated!
            > > > >
            > > > > ONE
            > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
            > medit8ionsociety
            > > > no_reply@ wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > "tarah513" <faithearden@> wrote:
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
            > > > medit8ionsociety
            > > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
            > > > > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
            > > > > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
            > > > > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
            > > > > > > >
            > > > > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer.
            Let
            > me
            > > > tell
            > > > > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is
            the
            > > > growing!
            > > > > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
            > herbicides,
            > > > > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT
            grow
            > > > > > > "effortlessly".
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can
            I
            > buy
            > > > some
            > > > > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Faithe
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > Yo Faithe,
            > > > > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
            > > > > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
            > > > > > of this Nasrudin story:
            > > > > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
            > > > > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
            > > > > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
            > > > > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
            > > > > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
            > > > > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
            > > > "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
            > > > > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
            > > > > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
            > > > > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
            > > > > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
            > > > > > will be ready."
            > > > > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
            > > > > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
            > > > > >
            > > > > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
            > > > > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
            > > > > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
            > > > > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
            > > > > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
            > > > > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
            > > > > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
            > > > > > conviction is not enough."
            > > > > >
            > > > > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
            > > > > > statement:
            > > > > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
            > > > > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
            > > > > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
            > > > > > a product of Grace.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Peace and blessings,
            > > > > > Bob
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Bruce Morgen
            Dear Yogiji -- There are no ideas per se in meditation. The meditative state is the perceptual tabula rasa upon which all that comes and goes or arises and
            Message 5 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
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              Dear Yogiji --

              There are no ideas per se in
              meditation. The meditative
              state is the perceptual tabula
              rasa upon which all that comes
              and goes or arises and dies is
              written, only to be erased and
              supplanted by still more
              aspects of the world of forms.

              By holding on to the the idea
              of Oneness, one is certainly
              filling the perceptual cup
              with yet another preconception
              -- remember, the Tao that can
              be spoken of (that is,
              expressed as an idea) is not
              the true Tao.

              Hiya, Faithe!

              Much love -- Bruce



              On 4/6/2010 6:16 PM, cosmic_yogi1 wrote:
              > Inquiring Faithe,
              >
              > I greet you with love and understanding.
              >
              > The Zen have asked--how can We truly understand verbally? If We go to
              > the words of describing this or that, how can We truly know it?
              >
              > Bob has stated in previous correspondences that "You missed the point by
              > being so literal".
              >
              > This brings to mind the infamous Zen Koan of 'Emptying your cup'.
              >
              > Paraphrasing-- Your cup is too full!--'You are full of your opinions and
              > speculations. How can you know the Zen unless you empty your cup?'
              >
              > Regarding your problem with what i have offered, i recall several
              > metaphores: Is a drop of water from the ocean still the ocean? Hot and
              > Cold is still temperature. Yin and Yang is still the Dao.
              >
              > Great Masters, Saints and Avatars alike have said that 'We are all
              > inexstricably bound and linked to the source'. Life has been the
              > greates revealer of this truth. Hence, the 'connectedness to the ALL'.
              >
              > As i continue to awake and observe on this journey, in meditation is
              > where i realize the 'connectedness to the ALL'. To 'remove' that idea
              > from meditation, i believe, misses the point.
              >
              > In profound peace,
              >
              > ONE
              >
              >
              > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
              > <faithearden@...> wrote:
              >
              >>
              >>
              >> Dear Cosmic.
              >>
              >> Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along
              >>
              > that
              >
              >> shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
              >>
              >> My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
              >> "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
              >>
              >> Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness
              >>
              > idea
              >
              >> is removed, what then can be realized?
              >>
              >> Faithe
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
              >> hanifshekhem@ wrote:
              >>
              >>> Yo Faithe,
              >>> 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
              >>>
              >> the ALL.
              >>
              >>> ONE
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
              >>>
              >> faithearden@ wrote:
              >>
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>> Hi Cosmic.
              >>>>
              >>>> What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended
              >>>>
              > and
              >
              >> it
              >>
              >>>> is just a label?
              >>>>
              >>>> Thanks in advance.
              >>>>
              >>>> Faithe
              >>>>
              >>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
              >>>> <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
              >>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>> Beloved,
              >>>>>
              >>>>> Beautifully stated!
              >>>>>
              >>>>> ONE
              >>>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
              >>>>>
              >> medit8ionsociety
              >>
              >>>> no_reply@ wrote:
              >>>>
              >>>>>> "tarah513"<faithearden@> wrote:
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
              >>>>>>>
              >>>> medit8ionsociety
              >>>>
              >>>>>>> <no_reply@> wrote:
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>>> By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
              >>>>>>>> makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
              >>>>>>>> the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
              >>>>>>>> the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
              >>>>>>>>
              >>>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> HA-HA-HA!!!
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer.
              >>>>>>>
              > Let
              >
              >> me
              >>
              >>>> tell
              >>>>
              >>>>>>> you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is
              >>>>>>>
              > the
              >
              >>>> growing!
              >>>>
              >>>>>>> Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
              >>>>>>>
              >> herbicides,
              >>
              >>>>>>> insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT
              >>>>>>>
              > grow
              >
              >>>>>>> "effortlessly".
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can
              >>>>>>>
              > I
              >
              >> buy
              >>
              >>>> some
              >>>>
              >>>>>>> if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> Faithe
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>> Yo Faithe,
              >>>>>> You missed the point by being so literal, but
              >>>>>> your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
              >>>>>> of this Nasrudin story:
              >>>>>> Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
              >>>>>> to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
              >>>>>> tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
              >>>>>> be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
              >>>>>> be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
              >>>>>> which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
              >>>>>>
              >>>> "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
              >>>>
              >>>>>> willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
              >>>>>> Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
              >>>>>> was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
              >>>>>> Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
              >>>>>> will be ready."
              >>>>>> "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
              >>>>>> "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>> So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
              >>>>>> similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
              >>>>>> come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
              >>>>>> "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
              >>>>>> be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
              >>>>>> The self is so self-confident that unless it is
              >>>>>> totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
              >>>>>> conviction is not enough."
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>> As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
              >>>>>> statement:
              >>>>>> "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
              >>>>>> And that refers to all and everything, especially
              >>>>>> Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
              >>>>>> a product of Grace.
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>> Peace and blessings,
              >>>>>> Bob
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>>
            • cosmic_yogi1
              Yo Bruce, i stand corrected---All perceptions are illusion. Thank you for sharing much metta, ONE
              Message 6 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
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                Yo Bruce,

                i stand corrected---All perceptions are illusion.

                Thank you for sharing

                much metta,

                ONE

                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513" <faithearden@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > Dear Cosmic.
                >
                > Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along that
                > shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
                >
                > My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
                > "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
                >
                > Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness idea
                > is removed, what then can be realized?
                >
                > Faithe
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Yo Faithe,
                > > 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
                > the ALL.
                > >
                > > ONE
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                > faithearden@ wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Hi Cosmic.
                > > >
                > > > What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended and
                > it
                > > > is just a label?
                > > >
                > > > Thanks in advance.
                > > >
                > > > Faithe
                > > >
                > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                > > > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Beloved,
                > > > >
                > > > > Beautifully stated!
                > > > >
                > > > > ONE
                > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                > medit8ionsociety
                > > > no_reply@ wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > "tarah513" <faithearden@> wrote:
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                > > > medit8ionsociety
                > > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                > > > > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                > > > > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                > > > > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let
                > me
                > > > tell
                > > > > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
                > > > growing!
                > > > > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                > herbicides,
                > > > > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                > > > > > > "effortlessly".
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I
                > buy
                > > > some
                > > > > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Faithe
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > Yo Faithe,
                > > > > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
                > > > > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                > > > > > of this Nasrudin story:
                > > > > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                > > > > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                > > > > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                > > > > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                > > > > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                > > > > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                > > > "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
                > > > > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                > > > > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                > > > > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                > > > > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                > > > > > will be ready."
                > > > > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                > > > > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                > > > > >
                > > > > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                > > > > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                > > > > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                > > > > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                > > > > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                > > > > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                > > > > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                > > > > > conviction is not enough."
                > > > > >
                > > > > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                > > > > > statement:
                > > > > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                > > > > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
                > > > > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                > > > > > a product of Grace.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Peace and blessings,
                > > > > > Bob
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • hanif sashekhem
                Peace and Love Bruce, i apprecilove your wisdom in respect towards Oneness, however i must ask you---is your understanding of the meditative state that you
                Message 7 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
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                  Peace and Love Bruce,
                   
                  i apprecilove your wisdom in respect towards Oneness, however i must ask you---is your understanding of the meditative state that you describe also an idea?
                  It seems that We all suffer from the illusions of our perceptions:)
                   
                  ONE
                   
                  > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                  > From: editor@...
                  > Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 19:52:49 -0400
                  > Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
                  >
                  > Dear Yogiji --
                  >
                  > There are no ideas per se in
                  > meditation. The meditative
                  > state is the perceptual tabula
                  > rasa upon which all that comes
                  > and goes or arises and dies is
                  > written, only to be erased and
                  > supplanted by still more
                  > aspects of the world of forms.
                  >
                  > By holding on to the the idea
                  > of Oneness, one is certainly
                  > filling the perceptual cup
                  > with yet another preconception
                  > -- remember, the Tao that can
                  > be spoken of (that is,
                  > expressed as an idea) is not
                  > the true Tao.
                  >
                  > Hiya, Faithe!
                  >
                  > Much love -- Bruce
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On 4/6/2010 6:16 PM, cosmic_yogi1 wrote:
                  > > Inquiring Faithe,
                  > >
                  > > I greet you with love and understanding.
                  > >
                  > > The Zen have asked--how can We truly understand verbally? If We go to
                  > > the words of describing this or that, how can We truly know it?
                  > >
                  > > Bob has stated in previous correspondences that "You missed the point by
                  > > being so literal".
                  > >
                  > > This brings to mind the infamous Zen Koan of 'Emptying your cup'.
                  > >
                  > > Paraphrasing-- Your cup is too full!--'You are full of your opinions and
                  > > speculations. How can you know the Zen unless you empty your cup?'
                  > >
                  > > Regarding your problem with what i have offered, i recall several
                  > > metaphores: Is a drop of water from the ocean still the ocean? Hot and
                  > > Cold is still temperature. Yin and Yang is still the Dao.
                  > >
                  > > Great Masters, Saints and Avatars alike have said that 'We are all
                  > > inexstricably bound and linked to the source'. Life has been the
                  > > greates revealer of this truth. Hence, the 'connectedness to the ALL'.
                  > >
                  > > As i continue to awake and observe on this journey, in meditation is
                  > > where i realize the 'connectedness to the ALL'. To 'remove' that idea
                  > > from meditation, i believe, misses the point.
                  > >
                  > > In profound peace,
                  > >
                  > > ONE
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                  > > <faithearden@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> Dear Cosmic.
                  > >>
                  > >> Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along
                  > >>
                  > > that
                  > >
                  > >> shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
                  > >>
                  > >> My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
                  > >> "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
                  > >>
                  > >> Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness
                  > >>
                  > > idea
                  > >
                  > >> is removed, what then can be realized?
                  > >>
                  > >> Faithe
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                  > >> hanifshekhem@ wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >>> Yo Faithe,
                  > >>> 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
                  > >>>
                  > >> the ALL.
                  > >>
                  > >>> ONE
                  > >>>
                  > >>>
                  > >>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                  > >>>
                  > >> faithearden@ wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>> Hi Cosmic.
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>> What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended
                  > >>>>
                  > > and
                  > >
                  > >> it
                  > >>
                  > >>>> is just a label?
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>> Thanks in advance.
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>> Faithe
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                  > >>>> <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>> Beloved,
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>> Beautifully stated!
                  > >>>>>
                  > >>>>> ONE
                  > >>>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                  > >>>>>
                  > >> medit8ionsociety
                  > >>
                  > >>>> no_reply@ wrote:
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>>>> "tarah513"<faithearden@> wrote:
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > >>>> medit8ionsociety
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>>>>> <no_reply@> wrote:
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>>> By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                  > >>>>>>>> makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                  > >>>>>>>> the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                  > >>>>>>>> the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                  > >>>>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>> HA-HA-HA!!!
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>> I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer.
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > > Let
                  > >
                  > >> me
                  > >>
                  > >>>> tell
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>>>>> you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > > the
                  > >
                  > >>>> growing!
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>>>>> Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > >> herbicides,
                  > >>
                  > >>>>>>> insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > > grow
                  > >
                  > >>>>>>> "effortlessly".
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>> Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > > I
                  > >
                  > >> buy
                  > >>
                  > >>>> some
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>>>>> if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>> Faithe
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>>
                  > >>>>>> Yo Faithe,
                  > >>>>>> You missed the point by being so literal, but
                  > >>>>>> your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                  > >>>>>> of this Nasrudin story:
                  > >>>>>> Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                  > >>>>>> to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                  > >>>>>> tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                  > >>>>>> be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                  > >>>>>> be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                  > >>>>>> which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>> "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
                  > >>>>
                  > >>>>>> willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                  > >>>>>> Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                  > >>>>>> was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                  > >>>>>> Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                  > >>>>>> will be ready."
                  > >>>>>> "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                  > >>>>>> "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>> So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                  > >>>>>> similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                  > >>>>>> come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                  > >>>>>> "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                  > >>>>>> be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                  > >>>>>> The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                  > >>>>>> totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                  > >>>>>> conviction is not enough."
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>> As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                  > >>>>>> statement:
                  > >>>>>> "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                  > >>>>>> And that refers to all and everything, especially
                  > >>>>>> Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                  > >>>>>> a product of Grace.
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>> Peace and blessings,
                  > >>>>>> Bob
                  > >>>>>>
                  > >>>>>>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
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                  >
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                • Papajeff
                  Faithe, Beyond connectedness is the realization put so beautifully by Ramana Maharshi: The very form of God if Love. So it s One, in the matrix of Love. If
                  Message 8 of 24 , Apr 7, 2010
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                    Faithe,

                    Beyond "connectedness" is the
                    realization put so beautifully
                    by Ramana Maharshi:

                    "The very form of God if Love."

                    So it's One, in the matrix of Love.

                    If the realization or understanding
                    includes merely the connectness
                    or sense of Oneness...but not
                    the God (Love)-Realization, the
                    realization is not on the
                    level of the jnani yogi - there
                    is no Knowing.

                    Those who mistake the Oneness
                    for fully awakened tend to
                    be the one's who parrot the
                    half-baked teachings about,
                    "nothing to realize, everyone's
                    already enlightened, just get
                    on with your life"...pablum.

                    One Love,

                    Jeff

                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513" <faithearden@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Dear Cosmic.
                    >
                    > Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along that
                    > shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
                    >
                    > My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
                    > "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
                    >
                    > Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness idea
                    > is removed, what then can be realized?
                    >
                    > Faithe
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                    > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Yo Faithe,
                    > > 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
                    > the ALL.
                    > >
                    > > ONE
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                    > faithearden@ wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Hi Cosmic.
                    > > >
                    > > > What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended and
                    > it
                    > > > is just a label?
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks in advance.
                    > > >
                    > > > Faithe
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                    > > > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Beloved,
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Beautifully stated!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > ONE
                    > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                    > medit8ionsociety
                    > > > no_reply@ wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > "tarah513" <faithearden@> wrote:
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                    > > > medit8ionsociety
                    > > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                    > > > > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                    > > > > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                    > > > > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let
                    > me
                    > > > tell
                    > > > > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
                    > > > growing!
                    > > > > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                    > herbicides,
                    > > > > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                    > > > > > > "effortlessly".
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I
                    > buy
                    > > > some
                    > > > > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Faithe
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > Yo Faithe,
                    > > > > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
                    > > > > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                    > > > > > of this Nasrudin story:
                    > > > > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                    > > > > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                    > > > > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                    > > > > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                    > > > > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                    > > > > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                    > > > "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
                    > > > > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                    > > > > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                    > > > > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                    > > > > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                    > > > > > will be ready."
                    > > > > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                    > > > > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                    > > > > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                    > > > > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                    > > > > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                    > > > > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                    > > > > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                    > > > > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                    > > > > > conviction is not enough."
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                    > > > > > statement:
                    > > > > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                    > > > > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
                    > > > > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                    > > > > > a product of Grace.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Peace and blessings,
                    > > > > > Bob
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • cosmic_yogi1
                    Faithe, As the drop of water is to the ocean-that is what Oneness is. The essence of the drop is every bit the essence of the totality. All that we hold dear
                    Message 9 of 24 , Apr 7, 2010
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                      Faithe,

                      As the drop of water is to the ocean-that is what Oneness is.  The essence of the drop is every bit the essence of the totality.

                      All that we hold dear to our hearts, the things our soul yearns for-we do not have to give it up through the act of awakening!  Of course not, we recieve it by awakening!  This is the whole point.  Waking from this dream does not mean everything disappears.  It means everthing appears as it really is.  Life then is seen as a unified Whole, as Oneness.  Oneness knows only ONE.  In Oneness the puzzle has been made whole.  In Oneness there is no more good or bad, desirable or undesirable.  It is absolute fulfilment, completion, bliss, whatever we may call it.  It is a state of being beyond hope, for all hope is fulfilled.  We can not even faintly begin to describe the indescribable.  It can only be experienced.

                      ONE

                       

                       


                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Papajeff" <jeff@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Faithe,
                      >
                      > Beyond "connectedness" is the
                      > realization put so beautifully
                      > by Ramana Maharshi:
                      >
                      > "The very form of God if Love."
                      >
                      > So it's One, in the matrix of Love.
                      >
                      > If the realization or understanding
                      > includes merely the connectness
                      > or sense of Oneness...but not
                      > the God (Love)-Realization, the
                      > realization is not on the
                      > level of the jnani yogi - there
                      > is no Knowing.
                      >
                      > Those who mistake the Oneness
                      > for fully awakened tend to
                      > be the one's who parrot the
                      > half-baked teachings about,
                      > "nothing to realize, everyone's
                      > already enlightened, just get
                      > on with your life"...pablum.
                      >
                      > One Love,
                      >
                      > Jeff
                      >
                      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513" faithearden@ wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Dear Cosmic.
                      > >
                      > > Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along that
                      > > shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
                      > >
                      > > My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
                      > > "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
                      > >
                      > > Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness idea
                      > > is removed, what then can be realized?
                      > >
                      > > Faithe
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                      > > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Yo Faithe,
                      > > > 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
                      > > the ALL.
                      > > >
                      > > > ONE
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                      > > faithearden@ wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Hi Cosmic.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended and
                      > > it
                      > > > > is just a label?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Thanks in advance.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Faithe
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                      > > > > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Beloved,
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Beautifully stated!
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > ONE
                      > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                      > > medit8ionsociety
                      > > > > no_reply@ wrote:
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > "tarah513" <faithearden@> wrote:
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                      > > > > medit8ionsociety
                      > > > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                      > > > > > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                      > > > > > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                      > > > > > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let
                      > > me
                      > > > > tell
                      > > > > > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
                      > > > > growing!
                      > > > > > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                      > > herbicides,
                      > > > > > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                      > > > > > > > "effortlessly".
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I
                      > > buy
                      > > > > some
                      > > > > > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > Faithe
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Yo Faithe,
                      > > > > > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
                      > > > > > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                      > > > > > > of this Nasrudin story:
                      > > > > > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                      > > > > > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                      > > > > > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                      > > > > > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                      > > > > > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                      > > > > > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                      > > > > "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
                      > > > > > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                      > > > > > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                      > > > > > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                      > > > > > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                      > > > > > > will be ready."
                      > > > > > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                      > > > > > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                      > > > > > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                      > > > > > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                      > > > > > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                      > > > > > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                      > > > > > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                      > > > > > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                      > > > > > > conviction is not enough."
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                      > > > > > > statement:
                      > > > > > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                      > > > > > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
                      > > > > > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                      > > > > > > a product of Grace.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Peace and blessings,
                      > > > > > > Bob
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >

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