Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari

Expand Messages
  • sean tremblay
    THY is first cause, the will that begets manifestation, it could be seen as intentione human being unlike a dog or cat can look at a hill top and imagine a
    Message 1 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      THY is first cause, the will that begets manifestation, it could be seen as intentione human being unlike a dog or cat can look at a hill top and imagine a house, he can then imagine
      blue shutters and white siding, he can create in his mind every possible detail, this is THY Will, and then the human can gather the necessary materials and actually manifest this house, he can make it a reality from thought form to physical(some of you please avoid the urge to get all nitnoid about which form is really real, it's cliche and annoying) As I was saying the thought becomes manifest this is how in my opinion we are Made In Gods Image, it is the ability to call forth what is manifest what is potential and make it manifest, THY is god Gods will be done, THY Kingdom come-which means to actually realize and perceive the world as it really is, the problem with being made in gods image is that we can impose our will on what is already made manifest, this imposition of values and judgments causes confusion and pain and all kinds of problems/falsehood.  If you have a problem with the word God as some people do then think of God as first cause, because as far as we know everything came from something
      In the beginning was the word
      OM
       
      --- On Mon, 4/5/10, medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

      From: medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
      To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, April 5, 2010, 3:03 PM

       

      "tarah513" <faithearden@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear Bob.
      >
      > Thanks for your reply.
      >
      > I have a penchant for reading and comprehending as the words are
      > spoken/written. I take the meaning head-on. That is just the way I am.
      > Having been a business leader, I was entrusted to communicate clearly,
      > concisely and with no "double meaning". Perhaps we would have less
      > problems with meditation, spiritual & religious speakings if it was
      > either spoken in the same manner, or, if silence just prevaled on the
      > topic if words could not do it justice.
      >
      > Reference "Thy will be done"...I am VERY serious when I ask this
      > question...exactly who is this "thy"? I could never figure it out.
      >
      > Faithe
      >
      Yo Faithe,
      "Thy will be done" is from the bible (Matthew 6:9-13)
      "Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."
      and for me, this goes perfectly with life experience.
      The Big "THY in the sky/heart"/" God" is what is
      being referred to here. An example of what that
      is about is the reality that you can't be sure you won't
      fall on your face when you get up from reading this,
      can you? This is where the idea that everything
      is just God's will being acted out comes in to play.
      And this can segue into interesting inner enqueries
      that are effective meditative exercises. For example,
      do we really have free will, or is everything just
      destiny? Are we capable of "doing" or do things just
      happen? What about Karma? Reincarnation? Good
      intentions? And so on and so on. Another ? I especially
      like is the admonition to obey the 1st commandment, which
      says to put no other god before God. Wouldn't that
      mean that if we are thinking about anything but God
      we are putting that thing/idea/feeling ahead of GOD?
      And if we obey all of the other 612 commandments
      (Thou shalt's/Thou shalt not's) in the old testement,
      but not the 1st, would we still be considered a sinner?
      Anyway, these are all parts of common religion
      based questions that so many of us look only outside our
      Self to answer, while Meditation points to us to look
      inside for all the spiritual answers we need. And if
      we do, maybe that's because it was "Thy's" will to do so!
      Peace and blessings,
      Bob

      > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
      > <no_reply@> wrote:
      > >
      > > "tarah513" faithearden@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
      > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
      > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
      > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
      > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
      > > > >
      > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
      > > >
      > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me
      > tell
      > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
      > growing!
      > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing, herbicides,
      > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
      > > > "effortlessly" .
      > > >
      > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I buy
      > some
      > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
      > > >
      > > > Faithe
      > > >
      > > Yo Faithe,
      > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
      > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
      > > of this Nasrudin story:
      > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
      > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
      > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
      > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
      > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
      > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor: "Unfortunately,
      > there's been a delay. But - God
      > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
      > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
      > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
      > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
      > > will be ready."
      > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
      > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
      > >
      > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
      > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
      > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
      > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
      > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
      > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
      > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
      > > conviction is not enough."
      > >
      > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
      > > statement:
      > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
      > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
      > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
      > > a product of Grace.
      > >
      > > Peace and blessings,
      > > Bob
      > >
      >


    • sean tremblay
      P.S. Bob I liked the Mullah Nesruddin story, I could have used that line in Afghanistan! ... From: sean tremblay Subject: Re: [Meditation
      Message 2 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        P.S. Bob
        I liked the Mullah Nesruddin story, I could have used that line in Afghanistan!

        --- On Tue, 4/6/10, sean tremblay <bethjams9@...> wrote:

        From: sean tremblay <bethjams9@...>
        Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
        To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 8:01 AM

         

        THY is first cause, the will that begets manifestation, it could be seen as intentione human being unlike a dog or cat can look at a hill top and imagine a house, he can then imagine
        blue shutters and white siding, he can create in his mind every possible detail, this is THY Will, and then the human can gather the necessary materials and actually manifest this house, he can make it a reality from thought form to physical(some of you please avoid the urge to get all nitnoid about which form is really real, it's cliche and annoying) As I was saying the thought becomes manifest this is how in my opinion we are Made In Gods Image, it is the ability to call forth what is manifest what is potential and make it manifest, THY is god Gods will be done, THY Kingdom come-which means to actually realize and perceive the world as it really is, the problem with being made in gods image is that we can impose our will on what is already made manifest, this imposition of values and judgments causes confusion and pain and all kinds of problems/falsehood.  If you have a problem with the word God as some people do then think of God as first cause, because as far as we know everything came from something
        In the beginning was the word
        OM
         
        --- On Mon, 4/5/10, medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:

        From: medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroup s.com>
        Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
        To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
        Date: Monday, April 5, 2010, 3:03 PM

         

        "tarah513" <faithearden@ ...> wrote:
        >
        > Dear Bob.
        >
        > Thanks for your reply.
        >
        > I have a penchant for reading and comprehending as the words are
        > spoken/written. I take the meaning head-on. That is just the way I am.
        > Having been a business leader, I was entrusted to communicate clearly,
        > concisely and with no "double meaning". Perhaps we would have less
        > problems with meditation, spiritual & religious speakings if it was
        > either spoken in the same manner, or, if silence just prevaled on the
        > topic if words could not do it justice.
        >
        > Reference "Thy will be done"...I am VERY serious when I ask this
        > question...exactly who is this "thy"? I could never figure it out.
        >
        > Faithe
        >
        Yo Faithe,
        "Thy will be done" is from the bible (Matthew 6:9-13)
        "Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."
        and for me, this goes perfectly with life experience.
        The Big "THY in the sky/heart"/" God" is what is
        being referred to here. An example of what that
        is about is the reality that you can't be sure you won't
        fall on your face when you get up from reading this,
        can you? This is where the idea that everything
        is just God's will being acted out comes in to play.
        And this can segue into interesting inner enqueries
        that are effective meditative exercises. For example,
        do we really have free will, or is everything just
        destiny? Are we capable of "doing" or do things just
        happen? What about Karma? Reincarnation? Good
        intentions? And so on and so on. Another ? I especially
        like is the admonition to obey the 1st commandment, which
        says to put no other god before God. Wouldn't that
        mean that if we are thinking about anything but God
        we are putting that thing/idea/feeling ahead of GOD?
        And if we obey all of the other 612 commandments
        (Thou shalt's/Thou shalt not's) in the old testement,
        but not the 1st, would we still be considered a sinner?
        Anyway, these are all parts of common religion
        based questions that so many of us look only outside our
        Self to answer, while Meditation points to us to look
        inside for all the spiritual answers we need. And if
        we do, maybe that's because it was "Thy's" will to do so!
        Peace and blessings,
        Bob

        > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
        > <no_reply@> wrote:
        > >
        > > "tarah513" faithearden@ wrote:
        > > >
        > > > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
        > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
        > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
        > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
        > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
        > > > >
        > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
        > > >
        > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me
        > tell
        > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
        > growing!
        > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing, herbicides,
        > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
        > > > "effortlessly" .
        > > >
        > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I buy
        > some
        > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
        > > >
        > > > Faithe
        > > >
        > > Yo Faithe,
        > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
        > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
        > > of this Nasrudin story:
        > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
        > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
        > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
        > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
        > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
        > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor: "Unfortunately,
        > there's been a delay. But - God
        > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
        > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
        > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
        > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
        > > will be ready."
        > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
        > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
        > >
        > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
        > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
        > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
        > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
        > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
        > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
        > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
        > > conviction is not enough."
        > >
        > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
        > > statement:
        > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
        > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
        > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
        > > a product of Grace.
        > >
        > > Peace and blessings,
        > > Bob
        > >
        >



      • WestWindWood
        Meditation is a lot like farming. You have to have faith that if you make the effort to plant the seed that this is better than barren ground. First you have
        Message 3 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
        • 0 Attachment

          Meditation is a lot like farming. You have to have faith that if you make the effort to plant the seed that this is better than barren ground. First you have to get the ground ready, start fresh by plowing all the weeds under, try to live the best that you can by giving up bad behavior, remove weeds that suck away from the good growth that is to come. You also have to balance the fertilizer to get the best yield possible. Then you plant the seeds; you make the commitment to this kind of future. There are different kinds of good seed, you just have to look around at what you have to work with, your soil and climate, and find the path, the technique, that works best for you. And now there is the weather, you just have to trust the process and take whatever comes. Maybe you can say the weather is effortless because you have no control over it, but at any rate just offer up the problems that occur, weather, and accept what comes.  So you trust the weather, and because of you past karma what ever happens happens, but it will be a learning experience. You keep trying and eventually, if not this year, then next year, you come out and notice that your field has all this new growth and you suddenly see this wonderful vitality; however, now with enlightenment, the wonderment of this vital energy, the work begins. You have studied agriculture, you are not going by guess here, and you know that you have to get to work in earnest and weed that which takes away from the good plantings; also look for insects, like bad friends that take away from your good efforts. Eventually your notice with the harvest that life is getting better, that yes there were problems along the way, but those problems seem like some distant worry that no longer is of concern. Maybe you die and become reincarnated to new land or maybe you work really hard on this particular farm. You have become richer, but now you have to keep at it, do the cycle over and over and become better and better over time. Eventually you become one with the vitality that comes from working the land.

          --- On Sun, 4/4/10, tarah513 <faithearden@...> wrote:

          From: tarah513 <faithearden@...>
          Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
          To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 5:20 PM

           


          --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
          <no_reply@.. .> wrote:
          >
          > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
          > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
          > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
          > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
          >
          HA-HA-HA!!!

          I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me tell
          you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the growing!
          Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing, herbicides,
          insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
          "effortlessly" .

          Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I buy some
          if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.

          Faithe


        • sean tremblay
          Like it ... From: WestWindWood Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Faithe s Comment on Farming and Meditation To:
          Message 4 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Like it

            --- On Tue, 4/6/10, WestWindWood <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:

            From: WestWindWood <westwindwood2003@...>
            Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Faithe's Comment on Farming and Meditation
            To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 12:31 PM

             

            Meditation is a lot like farming. You have to have faith that if you make the effort to plant the seed that this is better than barren ground. First you have to get the ground ready, start fresh by plowing all the weeds under, try to live the best that you can by giving up bad behavior, remove weeds that suck away from the good growth that is to come. You also have to balance the fertilizer to get the best yield possible. Then you plant the seeds; you make the commitment to this kind of future. There are different kinds of good seed, you just have to look around at what you have to work with, your soil and climate, and find the path, the technique, that works best for you. And now there is the weather, you just have to trust the process and take whatever comes. Maybe you can say the weather is effortless because you have no control over it, but at any rate just offer up the problems that occur, weather, and accept what comes.  So you trust the weather, and because of you past karma what ever happens happens, but it will be a learning experience. You keep trying and eventually, if not this year, then next year, you come out and notice that your field has all this new growth and you suddenly see this wonderful vitality; however, now with enlightenment, the wonderment of this vital energy, the work begins. You have studied agriculture, you are not going by guess here, and you know that you have to get to work in earnest and weed that which takes away from the good plantings; also look for insects, like bad friends that take away from your good efforts. Eventually your notice with the harvest that life is getting better, that yes there were problems along the way, but those problems seem like some distant worry that no longer is of concern. Maybe you die and become reincarnated to new land or maybe you work really hard on this particular farm. You have become richer, but now you have to keep at it, do the cycle over and over and become better and better over time. Eventually you become one with the vitality that comes from working the land.

            --- On Sun, 4/4/10, tarah513 <faithearden@ earthlink. net> wrote:


            From: tarah513 <faithearden@ earthlink. net>
            Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
            To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
            Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 5:20 PM

             


            --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
            <no_reply@.. .> wrote:
            >
            > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
            > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
            > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
            > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
            >
            HA-HA-HA!!!

            I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me tell
            you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the growing!
            Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing, herbicides,
            insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
            "effortlessly" .

            Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I buy some
            if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.

            Faithe



          • Papajeff
            Faithe, Nice analogy. I started to perspire just reading it. I grew up on a farm and remember the weeding in the heat of summer and harvesting by hand as a lot
            Message 5 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Faithe,

              Nice analogy. I started to
              perspire just reading it.

              I grew up on a farm and
              remember the weeding in the
              heat of summer and harvesting
              by hand as a lot of work. I
              also remember how delicious
              the fresh fruits and veggies
              tasted - just from the garden.

              Still, the seed, once planted,
              does grow effortlessly. Clearing
              the way and keeping it clear
              in order for the crop to reach
              its fullest potential (of
              enlightenment) is the work on
              our part, as you've so nicely
              stated.

              Meditating is much easier than
              weeding.

              Thanks.

              Jeff



              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, WestWindWood <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
              >
              > Meditation is a lot like farming. You have to have faith that if you make the effort to plant the seed that this is better than barren ground. First you have to get the ground ready, start fresh by plowing all the weeds under, try to live the best that you can by giving up bad behavior, remove weeds that suck away from the good growth that is to come. You also have to balance the fertilizer to get the best yield possible. Then you plant the seeds; you make the commitment to this kind of future. There are different kinds of good seed, you just have to look around at what you have to work with, your soil and climate, and find the path, the technique, that works best for you. And now there is the weather, you just have to trust the process and take whatever comes. Maybe you can say the weather is effortless because you have no control over it, but at any rate just offer up the problems that occur, weather, and accept what comes.  So you trust the weather,
              > and because of you past karma what ever happens happens, but it will be a learning experience. You keep trying and eventually, if not this year, then next year, you come out and notice that your field has all this new growth and you suddenly see this wonderful vitality; however, now with enlightenment, the wonderment of this vital energy, the work begins. You have studied agriculture, you are not going by guess here, and you know that you have to get to work in earnest and weed that which takes away from the good plantings; also look for insects, like bad friends that take away from your good efforts. Eventually your notice with the harvest that life is getting better, that yes there were problems along the way, but those problems seem like some distant worry that no longer is of concern. Maybe you die and become reincarnated to new land or maybe you work really hard on this particular farm. You have become richer, but now you have to keep at it, do the
              > cycle over and over and become better and better over time. Eventually you become one with the vitality that comes from working the land.
              >
              > --- On Sun, 4/4/10, tarah513 <faithearden@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > From: tarah513 <faithearden@...>
              > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
              > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 5:20 PM
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
              > <no_reply@ .> wrote:
              > >
              > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
              > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
              > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
              > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
              > >
              > HA-HA-HA!!!
              >
              > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me tell
              > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the growing!
              > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing, herbicides,
              > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
              > "effortlessly" .
              >
              > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I buy some
              > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
              >
              > Faithe
              >
            • cosmic_yogi1
              Inquiring Faithe, I greet you with love and understanding. The Zen have asked--how can We truly understand verbally? If We go to the words of describing this
              Message 6 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Inquiring Faithe,

                I greet you with love and understanding.

                The Zen have asked--how can We truly understand verbally? If We go to
                the words of describing this or that, how can We truly know it?

                Bob has stated in previous correspondences that "You missed the point by
                being so literal".

                This brings to mind the infamous Zen Koan of 'Emptying your cup'.

                Paraphrasing-- Your cup is too full!--'You are full of your opinions and
                speculations. How can you know the Zen unless you empty your cup?'

                Regarding your problem with what i have offered, i recall several
                metaphores: Is a drop of water from the ocean still the ocean? Hot and
                Cold is still temperature. Yin and Yang is still the Dao.

                Great Masters, Saints and Avatars alike have said that 'We are all
                inexstricably bound and linked to the source'. Life has been the
                greates revealer of this truth. Hence, the 'connectedness to the ALL'.

                As i continue to awake and observe on this journey, in meditation is
                where i realize the 'connectedness to the ALL'. To 'remove' that idea
                from meditation, i believe, misses the point.

                In profound peace,

                ONE


                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                <faithearden@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > Dear Cosmic.
                >
                > Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along
                that
                > shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
                >
                > My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
                > "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
                >
                > Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness
                idea
                > is removed, what then can be realized?
                >
                > Faithe
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                > hanifshekhem@ wrote:
                > >
                > > Yo Faithe,
                > > 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
                > the ALL.
                > >
                > > ONE
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                > faithearden@ wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Hi Cosmic.
                > > >
                > > > What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended
                and
                > it
                > > > is just a label?
                > > >
                > > > Thanks in advance.
                > > >
                > > > Faithe
                > > >
                > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                > > > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > Beloved,
                > > > >
                > > > > Beautifully stated!
                > > > >
                > > > > ONE
                > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                > medit8ionsociety
                > > > no_reply@ wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > "tarah513" <faithearden@> wrote:
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                > > > medit8ionsociety
                > > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                > > > > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                > > > > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                > > > > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer.
                Let
                > me
                > > > tell
                > > > > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is
                the
                > > > growing!
                > > > > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                > herbicides,
                > > > > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT
                grow
                > > > > > > "effortlessly".
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can
                I
                > buy
                > > > some
                > > > > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Faithe
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > Yo Faithe,
                > > > > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
                > > > > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                > > > > > of this Nasrudin story:
                > > > > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                > > > > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                > > > > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                > > > > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                > > > > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                > > > > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                > > > "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
                > > > > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                > > > > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                > > > > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                > > > > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                > > > > > will be ready."
                > > > > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                > > > > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                > > > > >
                > > > > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                > > > > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                > > > > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                > > > > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                > > > > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                > > > > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                > > > > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                > > > > > conviction is not enough."
                > > > > >
                > > > > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                > > > > > statement:
                > > > > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                > > > > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
                > > > > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                > > > > > a product of Grace.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Peace and blessings,
                > > > > > Bob
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • Bruce Morgen
                Dear Yogiji -- There are no ideas per se in meditation. The meditative state is the perceptual tabula rasa upon which all that comes and goes or arises and
                Message 7 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear Yogiji --

                  There are no ideas per se in
                  meditation. The meditative
                  state is the perceptual tabula
                  rasa upon which all that comes
                  and goes or arises and dies is
                  written, only to be erased and
                  supplanted by still more
                  aspects of the world of forms.

                  By holding on to the the idea
                  of Oneness, one is certainly
                  filling the perceptual cup
                  with yet another preconception
                  -- remember, the Tao that can
                  be spoken of (that is,
                  expressed as an idea) is not
                  the true Tao.

                  Hiya, Faithe!

                  Much love -- Bruce



                  On 4/6/2010 6:16 PM, cosmic_yogi1 wrote:
                  > Inquiring Faithe,
                  >
                  > I greet you with love and understanding.
                  >
                  > The Zen have asked--how can We truly understand verbally? If We go to
                  > the words of describing this or that, how can We truly know it?
                  >
                  > Bob has stated in previous correspondences that "You missed the point by
                  > being so literal".
                  >
                  > This brings to mind the infamous Zen Koan of 'Emptying your cup'.
                  >
                  > Paraphrasing-- Your cup is too full!--'You are full of your opinions and
                  > speculations. How can you know the Zen unless you empty your cup?'
                  >
                  > Regarding your problem with what i have offered, i recall several
                  > metaphores: Is a drop of water from the ocean still the ocean? Hot and
                  > Cold is still temperature. Yin and Yang is still the Dao.
                  >
                  > Great Masters, Saints and Avatars alike have said that 'We are all
                  > inexstricably bound and linked to the source'. Life has been the
                  > greates revealer of this truth. Hence, the 'connectedness to the ALL'.
                  >
                  > As i continue to awake and observe on this journey, in meditation is
                  > where i realize the 'connectedness to the ALL'. To 'remove' that idea
                  > from meditation, i believe, misses the point.
                  >
                  > In profound peace,
                  >
                  > ONE
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                  > <faithearden@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Dear Cosmic.
                  >>
                  >> Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along
                  >>
                  > that
                  >
                  >> shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
                  >>
                  >> My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
                  >> "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
                  >>
                  >> Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness
                  >>
                  > idea
                  >
                  >> is removed, what then can be realized?
                  >>
                  >> Faithe
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                  >> hanifshekhem@ wrote:
                  >>
                  >>> Yo Faithe,
                  >>> 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
                  >>>
                  >> the ALL.
                  >>
                  >>> ONE
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                  >>>
                  >> faithearden@ wrote:
                  >>
                  >>>>
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Hi Cosmic.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended
                  >>>>
                  > and
                  >
                  >> it
                  >>
                  >>>> is just a label?
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Thanks in advance.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Faithe
                  >>>>
                  >>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                  >>>> <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                  >>>>
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>> Beloved,
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>> Beautifully stated!
                  >>>>>
                  >>>>> ONE
                  >>>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                  >>>>>
                  >> medit8ionsociety
                  >>
                  >>>> no_reply@ wrote:
                  >>>>
                  >>>>>> "tarah513"<faithearden@> wrote:
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                  >>>>>>>
                  >>>> medit8ionsociety
                  >>>>
                  >>>>>>> <no_reply@> wrote:
                  >>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>> By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                  >>>>>>>> makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                  >>>>>>>> the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                  >>>>>>>> the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                  >>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>> HA-HA-HA!!!
                  >>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>> I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer.
                  >>>>>>>
                  > Let
                  >
                  >> me
                  >>
                  >>>> tell
                  >>>>
                  >>>>>>> you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is
                  >>>>>>>
                  > the
                  >
                  >>>> growing!
                  >>>>
                  >>>>>>> Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                  >>>>>>>
                  >> herbicides,
                  >>
                  >>>>>>> insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT
                  >>>>>>>
                  > grow
                  >
                  >>>>>>> "effortlessly".
                  >>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>> Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can
                  >>>>>>>
                  > I
                  >
                  >> buy
                  >>
                  >>>> some
                  >>>>
                  >>>>>>> if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                  >>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>> Faithe
                  >>>>>>>
                  >>>>>>>
                  >>>>>> Yo Faithe,
                  >>>>>> You missed the point by being so literal, but
                  >>>>>> your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                  >>>>>> of this Nasrudin story:
                  >>>>>> Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                  >>>>>> to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                  >>>>>> tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                  >>>>>> be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                  >>>>>> be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                  >>>>>> which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>> "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
                  >>>>
                  >>>>>> willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                  >>>>>> Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                  >>>>>> was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                  >>>>>> Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                  >>>>>> will be ready."
                  >>>>>> "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                  >>>>>> "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                  >>>>>> similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                  >>>>>> come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                  >>>>>> "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                  >>>>>> be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                  >>>>>> The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                  >>>>>> totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                  >>>>>> conviction is not enough."
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                  >>>>>> statement:
                  >>>>>> "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                  >>>>>> And that refers to all and everything, especially
                  >>>>>> Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                  >>>>>> a product of Grace.
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>> Peace and blessings,
                  >>>>>> Bob
                  >>>>>>
                  >>>>>>
                • cosmic_yogi1
                  Yo Bruce, i stand corrected---All perceptions are illusion. Thank you for sharing much metta, ONE
                  Message 8 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Yo Bruce,

                    i stand corrected---All perceptions are illusion.

                    Thank you for sharing

                    much metta,

                    ONE

                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513" <faithearden@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Dear Cosmic.
                    >
                    > Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along that
                    > shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
                    >
                    > My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
                    > "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
                    >
                    > Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness idea
                    > is removed, what then can be realized?
                    >
                    > Faithe
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                    > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Yo Faithe,
                    > > 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
                    > the ALL.
                    > >
                    > > ONE
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                    > faithearden@ wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Hi Cosmic.
                    > > >
                    > > > What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended and
                    > it
                    > > > is just a label?
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks in advance.
                    > > >
                    > > > Faithe
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                    > > > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Beloved,
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Beautifully stated!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > ONE
                    > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                    > medit8ionsociety
                    > > > no_reply@ wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > "tarah513" <faithearden@> wrote:
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                    > > > medit8ionsociety
                    > > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                    > > > > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                    > > > > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                    > > > > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let
                    > me
                    > > > tell
                    > > > > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
                    > > > growing!
                    > > > > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                    > herbicides,
                    > > > > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                    > > > > > > "effortlessly".
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I
                    > buy
                    > > > some
                    > > > > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Faithe
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > Yo Faithe,
                    > > > > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
                    > > > > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                    > > > > > of this Nasrudin story:
                    > > > > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                    > > > > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                    > > > > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                    > > > > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                    > > > > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                    > > > > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                    > > > "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
                    > > > > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                    > > > > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                    > > > > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                    > > > > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                    > > > > > will be ready."
                    > > > > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                    > > > > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                    > > > > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                    > > > > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                    > > > > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                    > > > > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                    > > > > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                    > > > > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                    > > > > > conviction is not enough."
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                    > > > > > statement:
                    > > > > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                    > > > > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
                    > > > > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                    > > > > > a product of Grace.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Peace and blessings,
                    > > > > > Bob
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • hanif sashekhem
                    Peace and Love Bruce, i apprecilove your wisdom in respect towards Oneness, however i must ask you---is your understanding of the meditative state that you
                    Message 9 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Peace and Love Bruce,
                       
                      i apprecilove your wisdom in respect towards Oneness, however i must ask you---is your understanding of the meditative state that you describe also an idea?
                      It seems that We all suffer from the illusions of our perceptions:)
                       
                      ONE
                       
                      > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                      > From: editor@...
                      > Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 19:52:49 -0400
                      > Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
                      >
                      > Dear Yogiji --
                      >
                      > There are no ideas per se in
                      > meditation. The meditative
                      > state is the perceptual tabula
                      > rasa upon which all that comes
                      > and goes or arises and dies is
                      > written, only to be erased and
                      > supplanted by still more
                      > aspects of the world of forms.
                      >
                      > By holding on to the the idea
                      > of Oneness, one is certainly
                      > filling the perceptual cup
                      > with yet another preconception
                      > -- remember, the Tao that can
                      > be spoken of (that is,
                      > expressed as an idea) is not
                      > the true Tao.
                      >
                      > Hiya, Faithe!
                      >
                      > Much love -- Bruce
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On 4/6/2010 6:16 PM, cosmic_yogi1 wrote:
                      > > Inquiring Faithe,
                      > >
                      > > I greet you with love and understanding.
                      > >
                      > > The Zen have asked--how can We truly understand verbally? If We go to
                      > > the words of describing this or that, how can We truly know it?
                      > >
                      > > Bob has stated in previous correspondences that "You missed the point by
                      > > being so literal".
                      > >
                      > > This brings to mind the infamous Zen Koan of 'Emptying your cup'.
                      > >
                      > > Paraphrasing-- Your cup is too full!--'You are full of your opinions and
                      > > speculations. How can you know the Zen unless you empty your cup?'
                      > >
                      > > Regarding your problem with what i have offered, i recall several
                      > > metaphores: Is a drop of water from the ocean still the ocean? Hot and
                      > > Cold is still temperature. Yin and Yang is still the Dao.
                      > >
                      > > Great Masters, Saints and Avatars alike have said that 'We are all
                      > > inexstricably bound and linked to the source'. Life has been the
                      > > greates revealer of this truth. Hence, the 'connectedness to the ALL'.
                      > >
                      > > As i continue to awake and observe on this journey, in meditation is
                      > > where i realize the 'connectedness to the ALL'. To 'remove' that idea
                      > > from meditation, i believe, misses the point.
                      > >
                      > > In profound peace,
                      > >
                      > > ONE
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                      > > <faithearden@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >> Dear Cosmic.
                      > >>
                      > >> Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along
                      > >>
                      > > that
                      > >
                      > >> shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
                      > >>
                      > >> My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
                      > >> "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
                      > >>
                      > >> Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness
                      > >>
                      > > idea
                      > >
                      > >> is removed, what then can be realized?
                      > >>
                      > >> Faithe
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                      > >> hanifshekhem@ wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >>> Yo Faithe,
                      > >>> 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
                      > >>>
                      > >> the ALL.
                      > >>
                      > >>> ONE
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                      > >>>
                      > >> faithearden@ wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>> Hi Cosmic.
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>> What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended
                      > >>>>
                      > > and
                      > >
                      > >> it
                      > >>
                      > >>>> is just a label?
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>> Thanks in advance.
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>> Faithe
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                      > >>>> <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>> Beloved,
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>> Beautifully stated!
                      > >>>>>
                      > >>>>> ONE
                      > >>>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                      > >>>>>
                      > >> medit8ionsociety
                      > >>
                      > >>>> no_reply@ wrote:
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>>>> "tarah513"<faithearden@> wrote:
                      > >>>>>>
                      > >>>>>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                      > >>>>>>>
                      > >>>> medit8ionsociety
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>>>>> <no_reply@> wrote:
                      > >>>>>>>
                      > >>>>>>>> By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                      > >>>>>>>> makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                      > >>>>>>>> the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                      > >>>>>>>> the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                      > >>>>>>>>
                      > >>>>>>>>
                      > >>>>>>> HA-HA-HA!!!
                      > >>>>>>>
                      > >>>>>>> I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer.
                      > >>>>>>>
                      > > Let
                      > >
                      > >> me
                      > >>
                      > >>>> tell
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>>>>> you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is
                      > >>>>>>>
                      > > the
                      > >
                      > >>>> growing!
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>>>>> Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                      > >>>>>>>
                      > >> herbicides,
                      > >>
                      > >>>>>>> insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT
                      > >>>>>>>
                      > > grow
                      > >
                      > >>>>>>> "effortlessly".
                      > >>>>>>>
                      > >>>>>>> Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can
                      > >>>>>>>
                      > > I
                      > >
                      > >> buy
                      > >>
                      > >>>> some
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>>>>> if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                      > >>>>>>>
                      > >>>>>>> Faithe
                      > >>>>>>>
                      > >>>>>>>
                      > >>>>>> Yo Faithe,
                      > >>>>>> You missed the point by being so literal, but
                      > >>>>>> your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                      > >>>>>> of this Nasrudin story:
                      > >>>>>> Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                      > >>>>>> to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                      > >>>>>> tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                      > >>>>>> be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                      > >>>>>> be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                      > >>>>>> which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                      > >>>>>>
                      > >>>> "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
                      > >>>>
                      > >>>>>> willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                      > >>>>>> Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                      > >>>>>> was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                      > >>>>>> Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                      > >>>>>> will be ready."
                      > >>>>>> "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                      > >>>>>> "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                      > >>>>>>
                      > >>>>>> So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                      > >>>>>> similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                      > >>>>>> come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                      > >>>>>> "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                      > >>>>>> be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                      > >>>>>> The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                      > >>>>>> totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                      > >>>>>> conviction is not enough."
                      > >>>>>>
                      > >>>>>> As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                      > >>>>>> statement:
                      > >>>>>> "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                      > >>>>>> And that refers to all and everything, especially
                      > >>>>>> Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                      > >>>>>> a product of Grace.
                      > >>>>>>
                      > >>>>>> Peace and blessings,
                      > >>>>>> Bob
                      > >>>>>>
                      > >>>>>>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/meditationsocietyofamerica/
                      >
                      > <*> Your email settings:
                      > Individual Email | Traditional
                      >
                      > <*> To change settings online go to:
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/meditationsocietyofamerica/join
                      > (Yahoo! ID required)
                      >
                      > <*> To change settings via email:
                      > meditationsocietyofamerica-digest@yahoogroups.com
                      > meditationsocietyofamerica-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >


                      The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Get started.
                    • Papajeff
                      Faithe, Beyond connectedness is the realization put so beautifully by Ramana Maharshi: The very form of God if Love. So it s One, in the matrix of Love. If
                      Message 10 of 24 , Apr 7, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Faithe,

                        Beyond "connectedness" is the
                        realization put so beautifully
                        by Ramana Maharshi:

                        "The very form of God if Love."

                        So it's One, in the matrix of Love.

                        If the realization or understanding
                        includes merely the connectness
                        or sense of Oneness...but not
                        the God (Love)-Realization, the
                        realization is not on the
                        level of the jnani yogi - there
                        is no Knowing.

                        Those who mistake the Oneness
                        for fully awakened tend to
                        be the one's who parrot the
                        half-baked teachings about,
                        "nothing to realize, everyone's
                        already enlightened, just get
                        on with your life"...pablum.

                        One Love,

                        Jeff

                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513" <faithearden@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Dear Cosmic.
                        >
                        > Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along that
                        > shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
                        >
                        > My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
                        > "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
                        >
                        > Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness idea
                        > is removed, what then can be realized?
                        >
                        > Faithe
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                        > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Yo Faithe,
                        > > 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
                        > the ALL.
                        > >
                        > > ONE
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                        > faithearden@ wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Hi Cosmic.
                        > > >
                        > > > What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended and
                        > it
                        > > > is just a label?
                        > > >
                        > > > Thanks in advance.
                        > > >
                        > > > Faithe
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                        > > > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Beloved,
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Beautifully stated!
                        > > > >
                        > > > > ONE
                        > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                        > medit8ionsociety
                        > > > no_reply@ wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > "tarah513" <faithearden@> wrote:
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                        > > > medit8ionsociety
                        > > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                        > > > > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                        > > > > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                        > > > > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let
                        > me
                        > > > tell
                        > > > > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
                        > > > growing!
                        > > > > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                        > herbicides,
                        > > > > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                        > > > > > > "effortlessly".
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I
                        > buy
                        > > > some
                        > > > > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Faithe
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > Yo Faithe,
                        > > > > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
                        > > > > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                        > > > > > of this Nasrudin story:
                        > > > > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                        > > > > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                        > > > > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                        > > > > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                        > > > > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                        > > > > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                        > > > "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
                        > > > > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                        > > > > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                        > > > > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                        > > > > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                        > > > > > will be ready."
                        > > > > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                        > > > > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                        > > > > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                        > > > > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                        > > > > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                        > > > > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                        > > > > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                        > > > > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                        > > > > > conviction is not enough."
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                        > > > > > statement:
                        > > > > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                        > > > > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
                        > > > > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                        > > > > > a product of Grace.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Peace and blessings,
                        > > > > > Bob
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • cosmic_yogi1
                        Faithe, As the drop of water is to the ocean-that is what Oneness is. The essence of the drop is every bit the essence of the totality. All that we hold dear
                        Message 11 of 24 , Apr 7, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment

                          Faithe,

                          As the drop of water is to the ocean-that is what Oneness is.  The essence of the drop is every bit the essence of the totality.

                          All that we hold dear to our hearts, the things our soul yearns for-we do not have to give it up through the act of awakening!  Of course not, we recieve it by awakening!  This is the whole point.  Waking from this dream does not mean everything disappears.  It means everthing appears as it really is.  Life then is seen as a unified Whole, as Oneness.  Oneness knows only ONE.  In Oneness the puzzle has been made whole.  In Oneness there is no more good or bad, desirable or undesirable.  It is absolute fulfilment, completion, bliss, whatever we may call it.  It is a state of being beyond hope, for all hope is fulfilled.  We can not even faintly begin to describe the indescribable.  It can only be experienced.

                          ONE

                           

                           


                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Papajeff" <jeff@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Faithe,
                          >
                          > Beyond "connectedness" is the
                          > realization put so beautifully
                          > by Ramana Maharshi:
                          >
                          > "The very form of God if Love."
                          >
                          > So it's One, in the matrix of Love.
                          >
                          > If the realization or understanding
                          > includes merely the connectness
                          > or sense of Oneness...but not
                          > the God (Love)-Realization, the
                          > realization is not on the
                          > level of the jnani yogi - there
                          > is no Knowing.
                          >
                          > Those who mistake the Oneness
                          > for fully awakened tend to
                          > be the one's who parrot the
                          > half-baked teachings about,
                          > "nothing to realize, everyone's
                          > already enlightened, just get
                          > on with your life"...pablum.
                          >
                          > One Love,
                          >
                          > Jeff
                          >
                          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513" faithearden@ wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Dear Cosmic.
                          > >
                          > > Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along that
                          > > shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
                          > >
                          > > My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
                          > > "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
                          > >
                          > > Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness idea
                          > > is removed, what then can be realized?
                          > >
                          > > Faithe
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                          > > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Yo Faithe,
                          > > > 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
                          > > the ALL.
                          > > >
                          > > > ONE
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                          > > faithearden@ wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Hi Cosmic.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended and
                          > > it
                          > > > > is just a label?
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Thanks in advance.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Faithe
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                          > > > > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Beloved,
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Beautifully stated!
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > ONE
                          > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                          > > medit8ionsociety
                          > > > > no_reply@ wrote:
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > "tarah513" <faithearden@> wrote:
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                          > > > > medit8ionsociety
                          > > > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                          > > > > > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                          > > > > > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                          > > > > > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let
                          > > me
                          > > > > tell
                          > > > > > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
                          > > > > growing!
                          > > > > > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                          > > herbicides,
                          > > > > > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                          > > > > > > > "effortlessly".
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I
                          > > buy
                          > > > > some
                          > > > > > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Faithe
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Yo Faithe,
                          > > > > > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
                          > > > > > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                          > > > > > > of this Nasrudin story:
                          > > > > > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                          > > > > > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                          > > > > > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                          > > > > > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                          > > > > > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                          > > > > > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                          > > > > "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
                          > > > > > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                          > > > > > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                          > > > > > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                          > > > > > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                          > > > > > > will be ready."
                          > > > > > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                          > > > > > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                          > > > > > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                          > > > > > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                          > > > > > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                          > > > > > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                          > > > > > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                          > > > > > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                          > > > > > > conviction is not enough."
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                          > > > > > > statement:
                          > > > > > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                          > > > > > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
                          > > > > > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                          > > > > > > a product of Grace.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Peace and blessings,
                          > > > > > > Bob
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >

                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.