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Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari

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  • tarah513
    Dear Bob. OK, I see where you are coming from. I am not a Christian. I do not follow the precepts of the Bible or of any organized religion. It has been a
    Message 1 of 24 , Apr 5, 2010
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      Dear Bob.

      OK, I see where you are coming from. I am not a Christian. I do not
      follow the precepts of the Bible or of any organized religion. It has
      been a quite freeing experience and definitely has given me a different
      perspective on life.

      "Thy will be done on earth" has a totally different connotation for me.

      Is it important? To me, it is very important and I constantly make an
      effort to not partake in the religions - west or east. I perceive
      religion as no different from politics = people scrambling for king of
      top of the heap.

      Can meditation be kept separate from religion?

      Thanks.

      Faithe



      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
      <no_reply@...> wrote:
      >
      > "tarah513" faithearden@ wrote:
      > >
      > > Dear Bob.
      > >
      > > Thanks for your reply.
      > >
      > > I have a penchant for reading and comprehending as the words are
      > > spoken/written. I take the meaning head-on. That is just the way I
      am.
      > > Having been a business leader, I was entrusted to communicate
      clearly,
      > > concisely and with no "double meaning". Perhaps we would have less
      > > problems with meditation, spiritual & religious speakings if it was
      > > either spoken in the same manner, or, if silence just prevaled on
      the
      > > topic if words could not do it justice.
      > >
      > > Reference "Thy will be done"...I am VERY serious when I ask this
      > > question...exactly who is this "thy"? I could never figure it out.
      > >
      > > Faithe
      > >
      > Yo Faithe,
      > "Thy will be done" is from the bible (Matthew 6:9-13)
      > "Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."
      > and for me, this goes perfectly with life experience.
      > The Big "THY in the sky/heart"/"God" is what is
      > being referred to here. An example of what that
      > is about is the reality that you can't be sure you won't
      > fall on your face when you get up from reading this,
      > can you? This is where the idea that everything
      > is just God's will being acted out comes in to play.
      > And this can segue into interesting inner enqueries
      > that are effective meditative exercises. For example,
      > do we really have free will, or is everything just
      > destiny? Are we capable of "doing" or do things just
      > happen? What about Karma? Reincarnation? Good
      > intentions? And so on and so on. Another ? I especially
      > like is the admonition to obey the 1st commandment, which
      > says to put no other god before God. Wouldn't that
      > mean that if we are thinking about anything but God
      > we are putting that thing/idea/feeling ahead of GOD?
      > And if we obey all of the other 612 commandments
      > (Thou shalt's/Thou shalt not's) in the old testement,
      > but not the 1st, would we still be considered a sinner?
      > Anyway, these are all parts of common religion
      > based questions that so many of us look only outside our
      > Self to answer, while Meditation points to us to look
      > inside for all the spiritual answers we need. And if
      > we do, maybe that's because it was "Thy's" will to do so!
      > Peace and blessings,
      > Bob
      >
      > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
      > > <no_reply@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > "tarah513" faithearden@ wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
      medit8ionsociety
      > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
      > > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
      > > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
      > > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
      > > > > >
      > > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
      > > > >
      > > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me
      > > tell
      > > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
      > > growing!
      > > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
      herbicides,
      > > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
      > > > > "effortlessly".
      > > > >
      > > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I
      buy
      > > some
      > > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
      > > > >
      > > > > Faithe
      > > > >
      > > > Yo Faithe,
      > > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
      > > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
      > > > of this Nasrudin story:
      > > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
      > > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
      > > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
      > > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
      > > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
      > > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
      "Unfortunately,
      > > there's been a delay. But - God
      > > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
      > > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
      > > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
      > > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
      > > > will be ready."
      > > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
      > > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
      > > >
      > > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
      > > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
      > > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
      > > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
      > > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
      > > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
      > > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
      > > > conviction is not enough."
      > > >
      > > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
      > > > statement:
      > > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
      > > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
      > > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
      > > > a product of Grace.
      > > >
      > > > Peace and blessings,
      > > > Bob
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • tarah513
      Dear Cosmic. Are you saying that you are ONE and that by your beingness along that shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL? My problem
      Message 2 of 24 , Apr 5, 2010
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        Dear Cosmic.

        Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along that
        shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?

        My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
        "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".

        Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness idea
        is removed, what then can be realized?

        Faithe



        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
        <hanifshekhem@...> wrote:
        >
        > Yo Faithe,
        > 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
        the ALL.
        >
        > ONE
        >
        >
        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
        faithearden@ wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Hi Cosmic.
        > >
        > > What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended and
        it
        > > is just a label?
        > >
        > > Thanks in advance.
        > >
        > > Faithe
        > >
        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
        > > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Beloved,
        > > >
        > > > Beautifully stated!
        > > >
        > > > ONE
        > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
        medit8ionsociety
        > > no_reply@ wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > "tarah513" <faithearden@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
        > > medit8ionsociety
        > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
        > > > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
        > > > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
        > > > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let
        me
        > > tell
        > > > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
        > > growing!
        > > > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
        herbicides,
        > > > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
        > > > > > "effortlessly".
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I
        buy
        > > some
        > > > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Faithe
        > > > > >
        > > > > Yo Faithe,
        > > > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
        > > > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
        > > > > of this Nasrudin story:
        > > > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
        > > > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
        > > > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
        > > > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
        > > > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
        > > > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
        > > "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
        > > > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
        > > > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
        > > > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
        > > > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
        > > > > will be ready."
        > > > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
        > > > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
        > > > >
        > > > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
        > > > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
        > > > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
        > > > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
        > > > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
        > > > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
        > > > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
        > > > > conviction is not enough."
        > > > >
        > > > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
        > > > > statement:
        > > > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
        > > > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
        > > > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
        > > > > a product of Grace.
        > > > >
        > > > > Peace and blessings,
        > > > > Bob
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • medit8ionsociety
        ... Yo Faithe, The root word of religion is the same as Realization, and that s what Meditation is all about. I think if you search our web site
        Message 3 of 24 , Apr 5, 2010
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          "tarah513" <faithearden@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dear Bob.
          >
          > OK, I see where you are coming from. I am not a Christian. I do not
          > follow the precepts of the Bible or of any organized religion. It has
          > been a quite freeing experience and definitely has given me a different
          > perspective on life.
          >
          > "Thy will be done on earth" has a totally different connotation for me.
          >
          > Is it important? To me, it is very important and I constantly make an
          > effort to not partake in the religions - west or east. I perceive
          > religion as no different from politics = people scrambling for king of
          > top of the heap.
          >
          > Can meditation be kept separate from religion?
          >
          > Thanks.
          >
          > Faithe
          >
          Yo Faithe,
          The root word of religion is the same as Realization,
          and that's what Meditation is all about. I think if you
          search our web site http://www.meditationsociety.com
          you'll see that there is no religion pointed to, but
          that all of the techniques and concepts there are
          applicable to every religion. There is no need to fear
          that meditation is somehow always attached to religion.
          As a matter of fact, some fundamentalist sects look on
          meditation as some sort of witchcraft or devil inspired
          thing. What I suggest is that you actually sit in
          meditation and see what it does for you. I expect there
          is little likelihood that you will start wearing a cross
          or a yalmulka or start treating cows as gods. What I do
          think will happen is that you will gain great insight
          into who you are and what life is all about. And these
          realizations will form a Faithe religion you can have real
          faith in.
          Peace and blessings,
          Bob
          >
          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
          > <no_reply@> wrote:
          > >
          > > "tarah513" faithearden@ wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Dear Bob.
          > > >
          > > > Thanks for your reply.
          > > >
          > > > I have a penchant for reading and comprehending as the words are
          > > > spoken/written. I take the meaning head-on. That is just the way I
          > am.
          > > > Having been a business leader, I was entrusted to communicate
          > clearly,
          > > > concisely and with no "double meaning". Perhaps we would have less
          > > > problems with meditation, spiritual & religious speakings if it was
          > > > either spoken in the same manner, or, if silence just prevaled on
          > the
          > > > topic if words could not do it justice.
          > > >
          > > > Reference "Thy will be done"...I am VERY serious when I ask this
          > > > question...exactly who is this "thy"? I could never figure it out.
          > > >
          > > > Faithe
          > > >
          > > Yo Faithe,
          > > "Thy will be done" is from the bible (Matthew 6:9-13)
          > > "Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."
          > > and for me, this goes perfectly with life experience.
          > > The Big "THY in the sky/heart"/"God" is what is
          > > being referred to here. An example of what that
          > > is about is the reality that you can't be sure you won't
          > > fall on your face when you get up from reading this,
          > > can you? This is where the idea that everything
          > > is just God's will being acted out comes in to play.
          > > And this can segue into interesting inner enqueries
          > > that are effective meditative exercises. For example,
          > > do we really have free will, or is everything just
          > > destiny? Are we capable of "doing" or do things just
          > > happen? What about Karma? Reincarnation? Good
          > > intentions? And so on and so on. Another ? I especially
          > > like is the admonition to obey the 1st commandment, which
          > > says to put no other god before God. Wouldn't that
          > > mean that if we are thinking about anything but God
          > > we are putting that thing/idea/feeling ahead of GOD?
          > > And if we obey all of the other 612 commandments
          > > (Thou shalt's/Thou shalt not's) in the old testement,
          > > but not the 1st, would we still be considered a sinner?
          > > Anyway, these are all parts of common religion
          > > based questions that so many of us look only outside our
          > > Self to answer, while Meditation points to us to look
          > > inside for all the spiritual answers we need. And if
          > > we do, maybe that's because it was "Thy's" will to do so!
          > > Peace and blessings,
          > > Bob
          > >
          > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
          > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > "tarah513" faithearden@ wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
          > medit8ionsociety
          > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
          > > > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
          > > > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
          > > > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me
          > > > tell
          > > > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
          > > > growing!
          > > > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
          > herbicides,
          > > > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
          > > > > > "effortlessly".
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I
          > buy
          > > > some
          > > > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Faithe
          > > > > >
          > > > > Yo Faithe,
          > > > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
          > > > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
          > > > > of this Nasrudin story:
          > > > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
          > > > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
          > > > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
          > > > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
          > > > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
          > > > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
          > "Unfortunately,
          > > > there's been a delay. But - God
          > > > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
          > > > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
          > > > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
          > > > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
          > > > > will be ready."
          > > > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
          > > > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
          > > > >
          > > > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
          > > > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
          > > > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
          > > > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
          > > > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
          > > > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
          > > > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
          > > > > conviction is not enough."
          > > > >
          > > > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
          > > > > statement:
          > > > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
          > > > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
          > > > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
          > > > > a product of Grace.
          > > > >
          > > > > Peace and blessings,
          > > > > Bob
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • sandeep chatterjee
          - From: medit8ionsociety Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari To:
          Message 4 of 24 , Apr 5, 2010
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            -

            From: medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
            To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Monday, April 5, 2010, 11:33 PM

             

            "tarah513" <faithearden@ ...> wrote:
            >
            > Dear Bob.
            >
            > Thanks for your reply.
            >
            > I have a penchant for reading and comprehending as the words are
            > spoken/written. I take the meaning head-on. That is just the way I am.
            > Having been a business leader, I was entrusted to communicate clearly,
            > concisely and with no "double meaning". Perhaps we would have less
            > problems with meditation, spiritual & religious speakings if it was
            > either spoken in the same manner, or, if silence just prevaled on the
            > topic if words could not do it justice.
            >
            > Reference "Thy will be done"...I am VERY serious when I ask this
            > question...exactly who is this "thy"? I could never figure it out.
            >
            > Faithe


            The source .....

            ....from which the thought...

            .... in the form of the question "Who is this thy".....


            .....arose.






            .

          • sandeep chatterjee
            ... From: tarah513 Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari To:
            Message 5 of 24 , Apr 5, 2010
            • 0 Attachment


              --- On Tue, 4/6/10, tarah513 <faithearden@...> wrote:

              From: tarah513 <faithearden@...>
              Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
              To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 3:45 AM

               



              Dear Bob.

              OK, I see where you are coming from. I am not a Christian. I do not
              follow the precepts of the Bible or of any organized religion. It has
              been a quite freeing experience and definitely has given me a different
              perspective on life.

              "Thy will be done on earth" has a totally different connotation for me.

              Is it important? To me, it is very important and I constantly make an
              effort to not partake in the religions - west or east. I perceive
              religion as no different from politics = people scrambling for king of
              top of the heap.

              Can meditation be kept separate from religion?

              Thanks.

              Faithe

              -------------



              Religion is never east or west.


              The word religion means re-connect.


              Re-connecting .......by ......and .......of .......that which never disconnected.



              Incidentally, "what is..... is thy will".....


              .....is the common bedrock of all flavours, eastern or western.



              Including the flavour called science, which cannot isolate any separative state from the entirety...... in order to further  postulate an independent casual agent for any effect.


              Just 2 weeks back neuro-scientists and behaviourial experts have collaborated and identified a "moral compass" region of the human brain which produces the thought seen as moral judgments.


              And established that this moral compass can be significantly affected by subjecting it to differing magnetic fields.



              So much for ........."it is me which thinks, ergo it is me which exists as a separative individuated self-entity(aka Descartes) and thus it is me which decides on my value system and thus the nature of my life ..........all out of my independent volition."




              Now as a response to the above.......thought may get risen in the form ...

              ..."to hell with re-connecting, all this re-connecting has only produced violence and intolerance whether at individual level or family or societal or national.

              And what is being spouted as above is more of the same cockamamie re-connecting."




              Such an risen thought  is perfectly fine.

              And is as much a nuance of thy will.:-)







            • sean tremblay
              THY is first cause, the will that begets manifestation, it could be seen as intentione human being unlike a dog or cat can look at a hill top and imagine a
              Message 6 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                THY is first cause, the will that begets manifestation, it could be seen as intentione human being unlike a dog or cat can look at a hill top and imagine a house, he can then imagine
                blue shutters and white siding, he can create in his mind every possible detail, this is THY Will, and then the human can gather the necessary materials and actually manifest this house, he can make it a reality from thought form to physical(some of you please avoid the urge to get all nitnoid about which form is really real, it's cliche and annoying) As I was saying the thought becomes manifest this is how in my opinion we are Made In Gods Image, it is the ability to call forth what is manifest what is potential and make it manifest, THY is god Gods will be done, THY Kingdom come-which means to actually realize and perceive the world as it really is, the problem with being made in gods image is that we can impose our will on what is already made manifest, this imposition of values and judgments causes confusion and pain and all kinds of problems/falsehood.  If you have a problem with the word God as some people do then think of God as first cause, because as far as we know everything came from something
                In the beginning was the word
                OM
                 
                --- On Mon, 4/5/10, medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                From: medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
                To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Monday, April 5, 2010, 3:03 PM

                 

                "tarah513" <faithearden@ ...> wrote:
                >
                > Dear Bob.
                >
                > Thanks for your reply.
                >
                > I have a penchant for reading and comprehending as the words are
                > spoken/written. I take the meaning head-on. That is just the way I am.
                > Having been a business leader, I was entrusted to communicate clearly,
                > concisely and with no "double meaning". Perhaps we would have less
                > problems with meditation, spiritual & religious speakings if it was
                > either spoken in the same manner, or, if silence just prevaled on the
                > topic if words could not do it justice.
                >
                > Reference "Thy will be done"...I am VERY serious when I ask this
                > question...exactly who is this "thy"? I could never figure it out.
                >
                > Faithe
                >
                Yo Faithe,
                "Thy will be done" is from the bible (Matthew 6:9-13)
                "Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."
                and for me, this goes perfectly with life experience.
                The Big "THY in the sky/heart"/" God" is what is
                being referred to here. An example of what that
                is about is the reality that you can't be sure you won't
                fall on your face when you get up from reading this,
                can you? This is where the idea that everything
                is just God's will being acted out comes in to play.
                And this can segue into interesting inner enqueries
                that are effective meditative exercises. For example,
                do we really have free will, or is everything just
                destiny? Are we capable of "doing" or do things just
                happen? What about Karma? Reincarnation? Good
                intentions? And so on and so on. Another ? I especially
                like is the admonition to obey the 1st commandment, which
                says to put no other god before God. Wouldn't that
                mean that if we are thinking about anything but God
                we are putting that thing/idea/feeling ahead of GOD?
                And if we obey all of the other 612 commandments
                (Thou shalt's/Thou shalt not's) in the old testement,
                but not the 1st, would we still be considered a sinner?
                Anyway, these are all parts of common religion
                based questions that so many of us look only outside our
                Self to answer, while Meditation points to us to look
                inside for all the spiritual answers we need. And if
                we do, maybe that's because it was "Thy's" will to do so!
                Peace and blessings,
                Bob

                > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
                > <no_reply@> wrote:
                > >
                > > "tarah513" faithearden@ wrote:
                > > >
                > > > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
                > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                > > > >
                > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
                > > >
                > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me
                > tell
                > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
                > growing!
                > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing, herbicides,
                > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                > > > "effortlessly" .
                > > >
                > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I buy
                > some
                > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                > > >
                > > > Faithe
                > > >
                > > Yo Faithe,
                > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
                > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                > > of this Nasrudin story:
                > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor: "Unfortunately,
                > there's been a delay. But - God
                > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                > > will be ready."
                > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                > >
                > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                > > conviction is not enough."
                > >
                > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                > > statement:
                > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
                > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                > > a product of Grace.
                > >
                > > Peace and blessings,
                > > Bob
                > >
                >


              • sean tremblay
                P.S. Bob I liked the Mullah Nesruddin story, I could have used that line in Afghanistan! ... From: sean tremblay Subject: Re: [Meditation
                Message 7 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
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                  P.S. Bob
                  I liked the Mullah Nesruddin story, I could have used that line in Afghanistan!

                  --- On Tue, 4/6/10, sean tremblay <bethjams9@...> wrote:

                  From: sean tremblay <bethjams9@...>
                  Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
                  To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 8:01 AM

                   

                  THY is first cause, the will that begets manifestation, it could be seen as intentione human being unlike a dog or cat can look at a hill top and imagine a house, he can then imagine
                  blue shutters and white siding, he can create in his mind every possible detail, this is THY Will, and then the human can gather the necessary materials and actually manifest this house, he can make it a reality from thought form to physical(some of you please avoid the urge to get all nitnoid about which form is really real, it's cliche and annoying) As I was saying the thought becomes manifest this is how in my opinion we are Made In Gods Image, it is the ability to call forth what is manifest what is potential and make it manifest, THY is god Gods will be done, THY Kingdom come-which means to actually realize and perceive the world as it really is, the problem with being made in gods image is that we can impose our will on what is already made manifest, this imposition of values and judgments causes confusion and pain and all kinds of problems/falsehood.  If you have a problem with the word God as some people do then think of God as first cause, because as far as we know everything came from something
                  In the beginning was the word
                  OM
                   
                  --- On Mon, 4/5/10, medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:

                  From: medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroup s.com>
                  Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
                  To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
                  Date: Monday, April 5, 2010, 3:03 PM

                   

                  "tarah513" <faithearden@ ...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Dear Bob.
                  >
                  > Thanks for your reply.
                  >
                  > I have a penchant for reading and comprehending as the words are
                  > spoken/written. I take the meaning head-on. That is just the way I am.
                  > Having been a business leader, I was entrusted to communicate clearly,
                  > concisely and with no "double meaning". Perhaps we would have less
                  > problems with meditation, spiritual & religious speakings if it was
                  > either spoken in the same manner, or, if silence just prevaled on the
                  > topic if words could not do it justice.
                  >
                  > Reference "Thy will be done"...I am VERY serious when I ask this
                  > question...exactly who is this "thy"? I could never figure it out.
                  >
                  > Faithe
                  >
                  Yo Faithe,
                  "Thy will be done" is from the bible (Matthew 6:9-13)
                  "Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."
                  and for me, this goes perfectly with life experience.
                  The Big "THY in the sky/heart"/" God" is what is
                  being referred to here. An example of what that
                  is about is the reality that you can't be sure you won't
                  fall on your face when you get up from reading this,
                  can you? This is where the idea that everything
                  is just God's will being acted out comes in to play.
                  And this can segue into interesting inner enqueries
                  that are effective meditative exercises. For example,
                  do we really have free will, or is everything just
                  destiny? Are we capable of "doing" or do things just
                  happen? What about Karma? Reincarnation? Good
                  intentions? And so on and so on. Another ? I especially
                  like is the admonition to obey the 1st commandment, which
                  says to put no other god before God. Wouldn't that
                  mean that if we are thinking about anything but God
                  we are putting that thing/idea/feeling ahead of GOD?
                  And if we obey all of the other 612 commandments
                  (Thou shalt's/Thou shalt not's) in the old testement,
                  but not the 1st, would we still be considered a sinner?
                  Anyway, these are all parts of common religion
                  based questions that so many of us look only outside our
                  Self to answer, while Meditation points to us to look
                  inside for all the spiritual answers we need. And if
                  we do, maybe that's because it was "Thy's" will to do so!
                  Peace and blessings,
                  Bob

                  > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
                  > <no_reply@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > "tarah513" faithearden@ wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
                  > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                  > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                  > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                  > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                  > > > >
                  > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
                  > > >
                  > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me
                  > tell
                  > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
                  > growing!
                  > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing, herbicides,
                  > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                  > > > "effortlessly" .
                  > > >
                  > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I buy
                  > some
                  > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                  > > >
                  > > > Faithe
                  > > >
                  > > Yo Faithe,
                  > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
                  > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                  > > of this Nasrudin story:
                  > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                  > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                  > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                  > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                  > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                  > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor: "Unfortunately,
                  > there's been a delay. But - God
                  > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                  > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                  > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                  > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                  > > will be ready."
                  > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                  > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                  > >
                  > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                  > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                  > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                  > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                  > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                  > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                  > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                  > > conviction is not enough."
                  > >
                  > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                  > > statement:
                  > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                  > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
                  > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                  > > a product of Grace.
                  > >
                  > > Peace and blessings,
                  > > Bob
                  > >
                  >



                • WestWindWood
                  Meditation is a lot like farming. You have to have faith that if you make the effort to plant the seed that this is better than barren ground. First you have
                  Message 8 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment

                    Meditation is a lot like farming. You have to have faith that if you make the effort to plant the seed that this is better than barren ground. First you have to get the ground ready, start fresh by plowing all the weeds under, try to live the best that you can by giving up bad behavior, remove weeds that suck away from the good growth that is to come. You also have to balance the fertilizer to get the best yield possible. Then you plant the seeds; you make the commitment to this kind of future. There are different kinds of good seed, you just have to look around at what you have to work with, your soil and climate, and find the path, the technique, that works best for you. And now there is the weather, you just have to trust the process and take whatever comes. Maybe you can say the weather is effortless because you have no control over it, but at any rate just offer up the problems that occur, weather, and accept what comes.  So you trust the weather, and because of you past karma what ever happens happens, but it will be a learning experience. You keep trying and eventually, if not this year, then next year, you come out and notice that your field has all this new growth and you suddenly see this wonderful vitality; however, now with enlightenment, the wonderment of this vital energy, the work begins. You have studied agriculture, you are not going by guess here, and you know that you have to get to work in earnest and weed that which takes away from the good plantings; also look for insects, like bad friends that take away from your good efforts. Eventually your notice with the harvest that life is getting better, that yes there were problems along the way, but those problems seem like some distant worry that no longer is of concern. Maybe you die and become reincarnated to new land or maybe you work really hard on this particular farm. You have become richer, but now you have to keep at it, do the cycle over and over and become better and better over time. Eventually you become one with the vitality that comes from working the land.

                    --- On Sun, 4/4/10, tarah513 <faithearden@...> wrote:

                    From: tarah513 <faithearden@...>
                    Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
                    To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 5:20 PM

                     


                    --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
                    <no_reply@.. .> wrote:
                    >
                    > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                    > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                    > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                    > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                    >
                    HA-HA-HA!!!

                    I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me tell
                    you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the growing!
                    Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing, herbicides,
                    insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                    "effortlessly" .

                    Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I buy some
                    if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.

                    Faithe


                  • sean tremblay
                    Like it ... From: WestWindWood Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Faithe s Comment on Farming and Meditation To:
                    Message 9 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Like it

                      --- On Tue, 4/6/10, WestWindWood <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:

                      From: WestWindWood <westwindwood2003@...>
                      Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Faithe's Comment on Farming and Meditation
                      To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 12:31 PM

                       

                      Meditation is a lot like farming. You have to have faith that if you make the effort to plant the seed that this is better than barren ground. First you have to get the ground ready, start fresh by plowing all the weeds under, try to live the best that you can by giving up bad behavior, remove weeds that suck away from the good growth that is to come. You also have to balance the fertilizer to get the best yield possible. Then you plant the seeds; you make the commitment to this kind of future. There are different kinds of good seed, you just have to look around at what you have to work with, your soil and climate, and find the path, the technique, that works best for you. And now there is the weather, you just have to trust the process and take whatever comes. Maybe you can say the weather is effortless because you have no control over it, but at any rate just offer up the problems that occur, weather, and accept what comes.  So you trust the weather, and because of you past karma what ever happens happens, but it will be a learning experience. You keep trying and eventually, if not this year, then next year, you come out and notice that your field has all this new growth and you suddenly see this wonderful vitality; however, now with enlightenment, the wonderment of this vital energy, the work begins. You have studied agriculture, you are not going by guess here, and you know that you have to get to work in earnest and weed that which takes away from the good plantings; also look for insects, like bad friends that take away from your good efforts. Eventually your notice with the harvest that life is getting better, that yes there were problems along the way, but those problems seem like some distant worry that no longer is of concern. Maybe you die and become reincarnated to new land or maybe you work really hard on this particular farm. You have become richer, but now you have to keep at it, do the cycle over and over and become better and better over time. Eventually you become one with the vitality that comes from working the land.

                      --- On Sun, 4/4/10, tarah513 <faithearden@ earthlink. net> wrote:


                      From: tarah513 <faithearden@ earthlink. net>
                      Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
                      To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
                      Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 5:20 PM

                       


                      --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
                      <no_reply@.. .> wrote:
                      >
                      > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                      > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                      > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                      > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                      >
                      HA-HA-HA!!!

                      I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me tell
                      you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the growing!
                      Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing, herbicides,
                      insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                      "effortlessly" .

                      Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I buy some
                      if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.

                      Faithe



                    • Papajeff
                      Faithe, Nice analogy. I started to perspire just reading it. I grew up on a farm and remember the weeding in the heat of summer and harvesting by hand as a lot
                      Message 10 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Faithe,

                        Nice analogy. I started to
                        perspire just reading it.

                        I grew up on a farm and
                        remember the weeding in the
                        heat of summer and harvesting
                        by hand as a lot of work. I
                        also remember how delicious
                        the fresh fruits and veggies
                        tasted - just from the garden.

                        Still, the seed, once planted,
                        does grow effortlessly. Clearing
                        the way and keeping it clear
                        in order for the crop to reach
                        its fullest potential (of
                        enlightenment) is the work on
                        our part, as you've so nicely
                        stated.

                        Meditating is much easier than
                        weeding.

                        Thanks.

                        Jeff



                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, WestWindWood <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Meditation is a lot like farming. You have to have faith that if you make the effort to plant the seed that this is better than barren ground. First you have to get the ground ready, start fresh by plowing all the weeds under, try to live the best that you can by giving up bad behavior, remove weeds that suck away from the good growth that is to come. You also have to balance the fertilizer to get the best yield possible. Then you plant the seeds; you make the commitment to this kind of future. There are different kinds of good seed, you just have to look around at what you have to work with, your soil and climate, and find the path, the technique, that works best for you. And now there is the weather, you just have to trust the process and take whatever comes. Maybe you can say the weather is effortless because you have no control over it, but at any rate just offer up the problems that occur, weather, and accept what comes.  So you trust the weather,
                        > and because of you past karma what ever happens happens, but it will be a learning experience. You keep trying and eventually, if not this year, then next year, you come out and notice that your field has all this new growth and you suddenly see this wonderful vitality; however, now with enlightenment, the wonderment of this vital energy, the work begins. You have studied agriculture, you are not going by guess here, and you know that you have to get to work in earnest and weed that which takes away from the good plantings; also look for insects, like bad friends that take away from your good efforts. Eventually your notice with the harvest that life is getting better, that yes there were problems along the way, but those problems seem like some distant worry that no longer is of concern. Maybe you die and become reincarnated to new land or maybe you work really hard on this particular farm. You have become richer, but now you have to keep at it, do the
                        > cycle over and over and become better and better over time. Eventually you become one with the vitality that comes from working the land.
                        >
                        > --- On Sun, 4/4/10, tarah513 <faithearden@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > From: tarah513 <faithearden@...>
                        > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
                        > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                        > Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 5:20 PM
                        >
                        >
                        >  
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
                        > <no_reply@ .> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                        > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                        > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                        > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                        > >
                        > HA-HA-HA!!!
                        >
                        > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me tell
                        > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the growing!
                        > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing, herbicides,
                        > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                        > "effortlessly" .
                        >
                        > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I buy some
                        > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                        >
                        > Faithe
                        >
                      • cosmic_yogi1
                        Inquiring Faithe, I greet you with love and understanding. The Zen have asked--how can We truly understand verbally? If We go to the words of describing this
                        Message 11 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
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                          Inquiring Faithe,

                          I greet you with love and understanding.

                          The Zen have asked--how can We truly understand verbally? If We go to
                          the words of describing this or that, how can We truly know it?

                          Bob has stated in previous correspondences that "You missed the point by
                          being so literal".

                          This brings to mind the infamous Zen Koan of 'Emptying your cup'.

                          Paraphrasing-- Your cup is too full!--'You are full of your opinions and
                          speculations. How can you know the Zen unless you empty your cup?'

                          Regarding your problem with what i have offered, i recall several
                          metaphores: Is a drop of water from the ocean still the ocean? Hot and
                          Cold is still temperature. Yin and Yang is still the Dao.

                          Great Masters, Saints and Avatars alike have said that 'We are all
                          inexstricably bound and linked to the source'. Life has been the
                          greates revealer of this truth. Hence, the 'connectedness to the ALL'.

                          As i continue to awake and observe on this journey, in meditation is
                          where i realize the 'connectedness to the ALL'. To 'remove' that idea
                          from meditation, i believe, misses the point.

                          In profound peace,

                          ONE


                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                          <faithearden@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Dear Cosmic.
                          >
                          > Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along
                          that
                          > shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
                          >
                          > My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
                          > "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
                          >
                          > Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness
                          idea
                          > is removed, what then can be realized?
                          >
                          > Faithe
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                          > hanifshekhem@ wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Yo Faithe,
                          > > 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
                          > the ALL.
                          > >
                          > > ONE
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                          > faithearden@ wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Hi Cosmic.
                          > > >
                          > > > What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended
                          and
                          > it
                          > > > is just a label?
                          > > >
                          > > > Thanks in advance.
                          > > >
                          > > > Faithe
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                          > > > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Beloved,
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Beautifully stated!
                          > > > >
                          > > > > ONE
                          > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                          > medit8ionsociety
                          > > > no_reply@ wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > "tarah513" <faithearden@> wrote:
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                          > > > medit8ionsociety
                          > > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                          > > > > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                          > > > > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                          > > > > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer.
                          Let
                          > me
                          > > > tell
                          > > > > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is
                          the
                          > > > growing!
                          > > > > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                          > herbicides,
                          > > > > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT
                          grow
                          > > > > > > "effortlessly".
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can
                          I
                          > buy
                          > > > some
                          > > > > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Faithe
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > Yo Faithe,
                          > > > > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
                          > > > > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                          > > > > > of this Nasrudin story:
                          > > > > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                          > > > > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                          > > > > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                          > > > > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                          > > > > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                          > > > > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                          > > > "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
                          > > > > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                          > > > > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                          > > > > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                          > > > > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                          > > > > > will be ready."
                          > > > > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                          > > > > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                          > > > > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                          > > > > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                          > > > > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                          > > > > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                          > > > > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                          > > > > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                          > > > > > conviction is not enough."
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                          > > > > > statement:
                          > > > > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                          > > > > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
                          > > > > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                          > > > > > a product of Grace.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Peace and blessings,
                          > > > > > Bob
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Bruce Morgen
                          Dear Yogiji -- There are no ideas per se in meditation. The meditative state is the perceptual tabula rasa upon which all that comes and goes or arises and
                          Message 12 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Dear Yogiji --

                            There are no ideas per se in
                            meditation. The meditative
                            state is the perceptual tabula
                            rasa upon which all that comes
                            and goes or arises and dies is
                            written, only to be erased and
                            supplanted by still more
                            aspects of the world of forms.

                            By holding on to the the idea
                            of Oneness, one is certainly
                            filling the perceptual cup
                            with yet another preconception
                            -- remember, the Tao that can
                            be spoken of (that is,
                            expressed as an idea) is not
                            the true Tao.

                            Hiya, Faithe!

                            Much love -- Bruce



                            On 4/6/2010 6:16 PM, cosmic_yogi1 wrote:
                            > Inquiring Faithe,
                            >
                            > I greet you with love and understanding.
                            >
                            > The Zen have asked--how can We truly understand verbally? If We go to
                            > the words of describing this or that, how can We truly know it?
                            >
                            > Bob has stated in previous correspondences that "You missed the point by
                            > being so literal".
                            >
                            > This brings to mind the infamous Zen Koan of 'Emptying your cup'.
                            >
                            > Paraphrasing-- Your cup is too full!--'You are full of your opinions and
                            > speculations. How can you know the Zen unless you empty your cup?'
                            >
                            > Regarding your problem with what i have offered, i recall several
                            > metaphores: Is a drop of water from the ocean still the ocean? Hot and
                            > Cold is still temperature. Yin and Yang is still the Dao.
                            >
                            > Great Masters, Saints and Avatars alike have said that 'We are all
                            > inexstricably bound and linked to the source'. Life has been the
                            > greates revealer of this truth. Hence, the 'connectedness to the ALL'.
                            >
                            > As i continue to awake and observe on this journey, in meditation is
                            > where i realize the 'connectedness to the ALL'. To 'remove' that idea
                            > from meditation, i believe, misses the point.
                            >
                            > In profound peace,
                            >
                            > ONE
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                            > <faithearden@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Dear Cosmic.
                            >>
                            >> Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along
                            >>
                            > that
                            >
                            >> shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
                            >>
                            >> My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
                            >> "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
                            >>
                            >> Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness
                            >>
                            > idea
                            >
                            >> is removed, what then can be realized?
                            >>
                            >> Faithe
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                            >> hanifshekhem@ wrote:
                            >>
                            >>> Yo Faithe,
                            >>> 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
                            >>>
                            >> the ALL.
                            >>
                            >>> ONE
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                            >>>
                            >> faithearden@ wrote:
                            >>
                            >>>>
                            >>>>
                            >>>> Hi Cosmic.
                            >>>>
                            >>>> What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended
                            >>>>
                            > and
                            >
                            >> it
                            >>
                            >>>> is just a label?
                            >>>>
                            >>>> Thanks in advance.
                            >>>>
                            >>>> Faithe
                            >>>>
                            >>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                            >>>> <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                            >>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>> Beloved,
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>> Beautifully stated!
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>> ONE
                            >>>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                            >>>>>
                            >> medit8ionsociety
                            >>
                            >>>> no_reply@ wrote:
                            >>>>
                            >>>>>> "tarah513"<faithearden@> wrote:
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>> medit8ionsociety
                            >>>>
                            >>>>>>> <no_reply@> wrote:
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>> By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                            >>>>>>>> makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                            >>>>>>>> the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                            >>>>>>>> the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                            >>>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>> HA-HA-HA!!!
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>> I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer.
                            >>>>>>>
                            > Let
                            >
                            >> me
                            >>
                            >>>> tell
                            >>>>
                            >>>>>>> you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is
                            >>>>>>>
                            > the
                            >
                            >>>> growing!
                            >>>>
                            >>>>>>> Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                            >>>>>>>
                            >> herbicides,
                            >>
                            >>>>>>> insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT
                            >>>>>>>
                            > grow
                            >
                            >>>>>>> "effortlessly".
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>> Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can
                            >>>>>>>
                            > I
                            >
                            >> buy
                            >>
                            >>>> some
                            >>>>
                            >>>>>>> if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>> Faithe
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>>>
                            >>>>>> Yo Faithe,
                            >>>>>> You missed the point by being so literal, but
                            >>>>>> your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                            >>>>>> of this Nasrudin story:
                            >>>>>> Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                            >>>>>> to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                            >>>>>> tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                            >>>>>> be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                            >>>>>> be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                            >>>>>> which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>> "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
                            >>>>
                            >>>>>> willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                            >>>>>> Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                            >>>>>> was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                            >>>>>> Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                            >>>>>> will be ready."
                            >>>>>> "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                            >>>>>> "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>> So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                            >>>>>> similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                            >>>>>> come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                            >>>>>> "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                            >>>>>> be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                            >>>>>> The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                            >>>>>> totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                            >>>>>> conviction is not enough."
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>> As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                            >>>>>> statement:
                            >>>>>> "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                            >>>>>> And that refers to all and everything, especially
                            >>>>>> Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                            >>>>>> a product of Grace.
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>> Peace and blessings,
                            >>>>>> Bob
                            >>>>>>
                            >>>>>>
                          • cosmic_yogi1
                            Yo Bruce, i stand corrected---All perceptions are illusion. Thank you for sharing much metta, ONE
                            Message 13 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
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                              Yo Bruce,

                              i stand corrected---All perceptions are illusion.

                              Thank you for sharing

                              much metta,

                              ONE

                              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513" <faithearden@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Dear Cosmic.
                              >
                              > Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along that
                              > shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
                              >
                              > My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
                              > "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
                              >
                              > Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness idea
                              > is removed, what then can be realized?
                              >
                              > Faithe
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                              > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Yo Faithe,
                              > > 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
                              > the ALL.
                              > >
                              > > ONE
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                              > faithearden@ wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > Hi Cosmic.
                              > > >
                              > > > What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended and
                              > it
                              > > > is just a label?
                              > > >
                              > > > Thanks in advance.
                              > > >
                              > > > Faithe
                              > > >
                              > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                              > > > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Beloved,
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Beautifully stated!
                              > > > >
                              > > > > ONE
                              > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                              > medit8ionsociety
                              > > > no_reply@ wrote:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > "tarah513" <faithearden@> wrote:
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                              > > > medit8ionsociety
                              > > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                              > > > > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                              > > > > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                              > > > > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                              > > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let
                              > me
                              > > > tell
                              > > > > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
                              > > > growing!
                              > > > > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                              > herbicides,
                              > > > > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                              > > > > > > "effortlessly".
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I
                              > buy
                              > > > some
                              > > > > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > > Faithe
                              > > > > > >
                              > > > > > Yo Faithe,
                              > > > > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
                              > > > > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                              > > > > > of this Nasrudin story:
                              > > > > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                              > > > > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                              > > > > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                              > > > > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                              > > > > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                              > > > > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                              > > > "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
                              > > > > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                              > > > > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                              > > > > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                              > > > > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                              > > > > > will be ready."
                              > > > > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                              > > > > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                              > > > > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                              > > > > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                              > > > > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                              > > > > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                              > > > > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                              > > > > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                              > > > > > conviction is not enough."
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                              > > > > > statement:
                              > > > > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                              > > > > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
                              > > > > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                              > > > > > a product of Grace.
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Peace and blessings,
                              > > > > > Bob
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • hanif sashekhem
                              Peace and Love Bruce, i apprecilove your wisdom in respect towards Oneness, however i must ask you---is your understanding of the meditative state that you
                              Message 14 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Peace and Love Bruce,
                                 
                                i apprecilove your wisdom in respect towards Oneness, however i must ask you---is your understanding of the meditative state that you describe also an idea?
                                It seems that We all suffer from the illusions of our perceptions:)
                                 
                                ONE
                                 
                                > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                                > From: editor@...
                                > Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 19:52:49 -0400
                                > Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
                                >
                                > Dear Yogiji --
                                >
                                > There are no ideas per se in
                                > meditation. The meditative
                                > state is the perceptual tabula
                                > rasa upon which all that comes
                                > and goes or arises and dies is
                                > written, only to be erased and
                                > supplanted by still more
                                > aspects of the world of forms.
                                >
                                > By holding on to the the idea
                                > of Oneness, one is certainly
                                > filling the perceptual cup
                                > with yet another preconception
                                > -- remember, the Tao that can
                                > be spoken of (that is,
                                > expressed as an idea) is not
                                > the true Tao.
                                >
                                > Hiya, Faithe!
                                >
                                > Much love -- Bruce
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > On 4/6/2010 6:16 PM, cosmic_yogi1 wrote:
                                > > Inquiring Faithe,
                                > >
                                > > I greet you with love and understanding.
                                > >
                                > > The Zen have asked--how can We truly understand verbally? If We go to
                                > > the words of describing this or that, how can We truly know it?
                                > >
                                > > Bob has stated in previous correspondences that "You missed the point by
                                > > being so literal".
                                > >
                                > > This brings to mind the infamous Zen Koan of 'Emptying your cup'.
                                > >
                                > > Paraphrasing-- Your cup is too full!--'You are full of your opinions and
                                > > speculations. How can you know the Zen unless you empty your cup?'
                                > >
                                > > Regarding your problem with what i have offered, i recall several
                                > > metaphores: Is a drop of water from the ocean still the ocean? Hot and
                                > > Cold is still temperature. Yin and Yang is still the Dao.
                                > >
                                > > Great Masters, Saints and Avatars alike have said that 'We are all
                                > > inexstricably bound and linked to the source'. Life has been the
                                > > greates revealer of this truth. Hence, the 'connectedness to the ALL'.
                                > >
                                > > As i continue to awake and observe on this journey, in meditation is
                                > > where i realize the 'connectedness to the ALL'. To 'remove' that idea
                                > > from meditation, i believe, misses the point.
                                > >
                                > > In profound peace,
                                > >
                                > > ONE
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                                > > <faithearden@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> Dear Cosmic.
                                > >>
                                > >> Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along
                                > >>
                                > > that
                                > >
                                > >> shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
                                > >>
                                > >> My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
                                > >> "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
                                > >>
                                > >> Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness
                                > >>
                                > > idea
                                > >
                                > >> is removed, what then can be realized?
                                > >>
                                > >> Faithe
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                                > >> hanifshekhem@ wrote:
                                > >>
                                > >>> Yo Faithe,
                                > >>> 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
                                > >>>
                                > >> the ALL.
                                > >>
                                > >>> ONE
                                > >>>
                                > >>>
                                > >>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                                > >>>
                                > >> faithearden@ wrote:
                                > >>
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>> Hi Cosmic.
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>> What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended
                                > >>>>
                                > > and
                                > >
                                > >> it
                                > >>
                                > >>>> is just a label?
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>> Thanks in advance.
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>> Faithe
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                                > >>>> <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>> Beloved,
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>> Beautifully stated!
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>> ONE
                                > >>>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                > >>>>>
                                > >> medit8ionsociety
                                > >>
                                > >>>> no_reply@ wrote:
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>>>> "tarah513"<faithearden@> wrote:
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                > >>>>>>>
                                > >>>> medit8ionsociety
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>>>>> <no_reply@> wrote:
                                > >>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>> By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                                > >>>>>>>> makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                                > >>>>>>>> the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                                > >>>>>>>> the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                                > >>>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>> HA-HA-HA!!!
                                > >>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>> I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer.
                                > >>>>>>>
                                > > Let
                                > >
                                > >> me
                                > >>
                                > >>>> tell
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>>>>> you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is
                                > >>>>>>>
                                > > the
                                > >
                                > >>>> growing!
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>>>>> Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                                > >>>>>>>
                                > >> herbicides,
                                > >>
                                > >>>>>>> insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT
                                > >>>>>>>
                                > > grow
                                > >
                                > >>>>>>> "effortlessly".
                                > >>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>> Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can
                                > >>>>>>>
                                > > I
                                > >
                                > >> buy
                                > >>
                                > >>>> some
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>>>>> if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                                > >>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>> Faithe
                                > >>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>>
                                > >>>>>> Yo Faithe,
                                > >>>>>> You missed the point by being so literal, but
                                > >>>>>> your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                                > >>>>>> of this Nasrudin story:
                                > >>>>>> Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                                > >>>>>> to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                                > >>>>>> tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                                > >>>>>> be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                                > >>>>>> be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                                > >>>>>> which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>> "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>>>> willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                                > >>>>>> Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                                > >>>>>> was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                                > >>>>>> Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                                > >>>>>> will be ready."
                                > >>>>>> "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                                > >>>>>> "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>> So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                                > >>>>>> similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                                > >>>>>> come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                                > >>>>>> "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                                > >>>>>> be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                                > >>>>>> The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                                > >>>>>> totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                                > >>>>>> conviction is not enough."
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>> As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                                > >>>>>> statement:
                                > >>>>>> "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                                > >>>>>> And that refers to all and everything, especially
                                > >>>>>> Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                                > >>>>>> a product of Grace.
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>> Peace and blessings,
                                > >>>>>> Bob
                                > >>>>>>
                                > >>>>>>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
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                              • Papajeff
                                Faithe, Beyond connectedness is the realization put so beautifully by Ramana Maharshi: The very form of God if Love. So it s One, in the matrix of Love. If
                                Message 15 of 24 , Apr 7, 2010
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                                  Faithe,

                                  Beyond "connectedness" is the
                                  realization put so beautifully
                                  by Ramana Maharshi:

                                  "The very form of God if Love."

                                  So it's One, in the matrix of Love.

                                  If the realization or understanding
                                  includes merely the connectness
                                  or sense of Oneness...but not
                                  the God (Love)-Realization, the
                                  realization is not on the
                                  level of the jnani yogi - there
                                  is no Knowing.

                                  Those who mistake the Oneness
                                  for fully awakened tend to
                                  be the one's who parrot the
                                  half-baked teachings about,
                                  "nothing to realize, everyone's
                                  already enlightened, just get
                                  on with your life"...pablum.

                                  One Love,

                                  Jeff

                                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513" <faithearden@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Dear Cosmic.
                                  >
                                  > Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along that
                                  > shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
                                  >
                                  > My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
                                  > "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
                                  >
                                  > Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness idea
                                  > is removed, what then can be realized?
                                  >
                                  > Faithe
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                                  > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Yo Faithe,
                                  > > 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
                                  > the ALL.
                                  > >
                                  > > ONE
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                                  > faithearden@ wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Hi Cosmic.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended and
                                  > it
                                  > > > is just a label?
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Thanks in advance.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Faithe
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                                  > > > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Beloved,
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Beautifully stated!
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > ONE
                                  > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                  > medit8ionsociety
                                  > > > no_reply@ wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > "tarah513" <faithearden@> wrote:
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                  > > > medit8ionsociety
                                  > > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                                  > > > > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                                  > > > > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                                  > > > > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let
                                  > me
                                  > > > tell
                                  > > > > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
                                  > > > growing!
                                  > > > > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                                  > herbicides,
                                  > > > > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                                  > > > > > > "effortlessly".
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I
                                  > buy
                                  > > > some
                                  > > > > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Faithe
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Yo Faithe,
                                  > > > > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
                                  > > > > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                                  > > > > > of this Nasrudin story:
                                  > > > > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                                  > > > > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                                  > > > > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                                  > > > > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                                  > > > > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                                  > > > > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                                  > > > "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
                                  > > > > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                                  > > > > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                                  > > > > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                                  > > > > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                                  > > > > > will be ready."
                                  > > > > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                                  > > > > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                                  > > > > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                                  > > > > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                                  > > > > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                                  > > > > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                                  > > > > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                                  > > > > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                                  > > > > > conviction is not enough."
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                                  > > > > > statement:
                                  > > > > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                                  > > > > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
                                  > > > > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                                  > > > > > a product of Grace.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Peace and blessings,
                                  > > > > > Bob
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • cosmic_yogi1
                                  Faithe, As the drop of water is to the ocean-that is what Oneness is. The essence of the drop is every bit the essence of the totality. All that we hold dear
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Apr 7, 2010
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                                    Faithe,

                                    As the drop of water is to the ocean-that is what Oneness is.  The essence of the drop is every bit the essence of the totality.

                                    All that we hold dear to our hearts, the things our soul yearns for-we do not have to give it up through the act of awakening!  Of course not, we recieve it by awakening!  This is the whole point.  Waking from this dream does not mean everything disappears.  It means everthing appears as it really is.  Life then is seen as a unified Whole, as Oneness.  Oneness knows only ONE.  In Oneness the puzzle has been made whole.  In Oneness there is no more good or bad, desirable or undesirable.  It is absolute fulfilment, completion, bliss, whatever we may call it.  It is a state of being beyond hope, for all hope is fulfilled.  We can not even faintly begin to describe the indescribable.  It can only be experienced.

                                    ONE

                                     

                                     


                                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Papajeff" <jeff@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Faithe,
                                    >
                                    > Beyond "connectedness" is the
                                    > realization put so beautifully
                                    > by Ramana Maharshi:
                                    >
                                    > "The very form of God if Love."
                                    >
                                    > So it's One, in the matrix of Love.
                                    >
                                    > If the realization or understanding
                                    > includes merely the connectness
                                    > or sense of Oneness...but not
                                    > the God (Love)-Realization, the
                                    > realization is not on the
                                    > level of the jnani yogi - there
                                    > is no Knowing.
                                    >
                                    > Those who mistake the Oneness
                                    > for fully awakened tend to
                                    > be the one's who parrot the
                                    > half-baked teachings about,
                                    > "nothing to realize, everyone's
                                    > already enlightened, just get
                                    > on with your life"...pablum.
                                    >
                                    > One Love,
                                    >
                                    > Jeff
                                    >
                                    > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513" faithearden@ wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Dear Cosmic.
                                    > >
                                    > > Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along that
                                    > > shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
                                    > >
                                    > > My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
                                    > > "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
                                    > >
                                    > > Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness idea
                                    > > is removed, what then can be realized?
                                    > >
                                    > > Faithe
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                                    > > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Yo Faithe,
                                    > > > 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
                                    > > the ALL.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > ONE
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                                    > > faithearden@ wrote:
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Hi Cosmic.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended and
                                    > > it
                                    > > > > is just a label?
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Thanks in advance.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Faithe
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                                    > > > > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Beloved,
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > Beautifully stated!
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > > > ONE
                                    > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                    > > medit8ionsociety
                                    > > > > no_reply@ wrote:
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > "tarah513" <faithearden@> wrote:
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                    > > > > medit8ionsociety
                                    > > > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                                    > > > > > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                                    > > > > > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                                    > > > > > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                                    > > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let
                                    > > me
                                    > > > > tell
                                    > > > > > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
                                    > > > > growing!
                                    > > > > > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                                    > > herbicides,
                                    > > > > > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                                    > > > > > > > "effortlessly".
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I
                                    > > buy
                                    > > > > some
                                    > > > > > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > > Faithe
                                    > > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > Yo Faithe,
                                    > > > > > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
                                    > > > > > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                                    > > > > > > of this Nasrudin story:
                                    > > > > > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                                    > > > > > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                                    > > > > > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                                    > > > > > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                                    > > > > > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                                    > > > > > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                                    > > > > "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
                                    > > > > > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                                    > > > > > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                                    > > > > > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                                    > > > > > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                                    > > > > > > will be ready."
                                    > > > > > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                                    > > > > > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                                    > > > > > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                                    > > > > > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                                    > > > > > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                                    > > > > > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                                    > > > > > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                                    > > > > > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                                    > > > > > > conviction is not enough."
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                                    > > > > > > statement:
                                    > > > > > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                                    > > > > > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
                                    > > > > > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                                    > > > > > > a product of Grace.
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > > > Peace and blessings,
                                    > > > > > > Bob
                                    > > > > > >
                                    > > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >

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