Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari

Expand Messages
  • tarah513
    Dear Bob. Thanks for your reply. I have a penchant for reading and comprehending as the words are spoken/written. I take the meaning head-on. That is just the
    Message 1 of 24 , Apr 5, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear Bob.

      Thanks for your reply.

      I have a penchant for reading and comprehending as the words are
      spoken/written. I take the meaning head-on. That is just the way I am.
      Having been a business leader, I was entrusted to communicate clearly,
      concisely and with no "double meaning". Perhaps we would have less
      problems with meditation, spiritual & religious speakings if it was
      either spoken in the same manner, or, if silence just prevaled on the
      topic if words could not do it justice.

      Reference "Thy will be done"...I am VERY serious when I ask this
      question...exactly who is this "thy"? I could never figure it out.

      Faithe


      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
      <no_reply@...> wrote:
      >
      > "tarah513" faithearden@ wrote:
      > >
      > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
      > > <no_reply@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
      > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
      > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
      > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
      > > >
      > > HA-HA-HA!!!
      > >
      > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me
      tell
      > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
      growing!
      > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing, herbicides,
      > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
      > > "effortlessly".
      > >
      > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I buy
      some
      > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
      > >
      > > Faithe
      > >
      > Yo Faithe,
      > You missed the point by being so literal, but
      > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
      > of this Nasrudin story:
      > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
      > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
      > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
      > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
      > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
      > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor: "Unfortunately,
      there's been a delay. But - God
      > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
      > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
      > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
      > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
      > will be ready."
      > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
      > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
      >
      > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
      > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
      > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
      > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
      > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
      > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
      > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
      > conviction is not enough."
      >
      > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
      > statement:
      > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
      > And that refers to all and everything, especially
      > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
      > a product of Grace.
      >
      > Peace and blessings,
      > Bob
      >
    • tarah513
      Hi Cosmic. What does your name ONE mean...or is there no meaning intended and it is just a label? Thanks in advance. Faithe ... medit8ionsociety ... tell ...
      Message 2 of 24 , Apr 5, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Cosmic.

        What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended and it
        is just a label?

        Thanks in advance.

        Faithe

        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
        <hanifshekhem@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Beloved,
        >
        > Beautifully stated!
        >
        > ONE
        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
        no_reply@ wrote:
        > >
        > > "tarah513" <faithearden@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
        medit8ionsociety
        > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
        > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
        > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
        > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
        > > > >
        > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
        > > >
        > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me
        tell
        > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
        growing!
        > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing, herbicides,
        > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
        > > > "effortlessly".
        > > >
        > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I buy
        some
        > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
        > > >
        > > > Faithe
        > > >
        > > Yo Faithe,
        > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
        > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
        > > of this Nasrudin story:
        > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
        > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
        > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
        > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
        > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
        > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
        "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
        > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
        > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
        > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
        > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
        > > will be ready."
        > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
        > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
        > >
        > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
        > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
        > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
        > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
        > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
        > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
        > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
        > > conviction is not enough."
        > >
        > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
        > > statement:
        > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
        > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
        > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
        > > a product of Grace.
        > >
        > > Peace and blessings,
        > > Bob
        > >
        >
      • cosmic_yogi1
        Yo Faithe, ONE is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to the ALL. ONE
        Message 3 of 24 , Apr 5, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Yo Faithe,
          'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to the ALL.

          ONE


          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513" <faithearden@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > Hi Cosmic.
          >
          > What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended and it
          > is just a label?
          >
          > Thanks in advance.
          >
          > Faithe
          >
          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
          > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Beloved,
          > >
          > > Beautifully stated!
          > >
          > > ONE
          > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
          > no_reply@ wrote:
          > > >
          > > > "tarah513" <faithearden@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
          > medit8ionsociety
          > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
          > > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
          > > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
          > > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
          > > > > >
          > > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
          > > > >
          > > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me
          > tell
          > > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
          > growing!
          > > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing, herbicides,
          > > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
          > > > > "effortlessly".
          > > > >
          > > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I buy
          > some
          > > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
          > > > >
          > > > > Faithe
          > > > >
          > > > Yo Faithe,
          > > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
          > > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
          > > > of this Nasrudin story:
          > > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
          > > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
          > > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
          > > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
          > > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
          > > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
          > "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
          > > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
          > > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
          > > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
          > > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
          > > > will be ready."
          > > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
          > > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
          > > >
          > > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
          > > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
          > > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
          > > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
          > > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
          > > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
          > > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
          > > > conviction is not enough."
          > > >
          > > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
          > > > statement:
          > > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
          > > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
          > > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
          > > > a product of Grace.
          > > >
          > > > Peace and blessings,
          > > > Bob
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • medit8ionsociety
          ... Yo Faithe, Thy will be done is from the bible (Matthew 6:9-13) Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. and for me, this goes perfectly with life
          Message 4 of 24 , Apr 5, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            "tarah513" <faithearden@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dear Bob.
            >
            > Thanks for your reply.
            >
            > I have a penchant for reading and comprehending as the words are
            > spoken/written. I take the meaning head-on. That is just the way I am.
            > Having been a business leader, I was entrusted to communicate clearly,
            > concisely and with no "double meaning". Perhaps we would have less
            > problems with meditation, spiritual & religious speakings if it was
            > either spoken in the same manner, or, if silence just prevaled on the
            > topic if words could not do it justice.
            >
            > Reference "Thy will be done"...I am VERY serious when I ask this
            > question...exactly who is this "thy"? I could never figure it out.
            >
            > Faithe
            >
            Yo Faithe,
            "Thy will be done" is from the bible (Matthew 6:9-13)
            "Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."
            and for me, this goes perfectly with life experience.
            The Big "THY in the sky/heart"/"God" is what is
            being referred to here. An example of what that
            is about is the reality that you can't be sure you won't
            fall on your face when you get up from reading this,
            can you? This is where the idea that everything
            is just God's will being acted out comes in to play.
            And this can segue into interesting inner enqueries
            that are effective meditative exercises. For example,
            do we really have free will, or is everything just
            destiny? Are we capable of "doing" or do things just
            happen? What about Karma? Reincarnation? Good
            intentions? And so on and so on. Another ? I especially
            like is the admonition to obey the 1st commandment, which
            says to put no other god before God. Wouldn't that
            mean that if we are thinking about anything but God
            we are putting that thing/idea/feeling ahead of GOD?
            And if we obey all of the other 612 commandments
            (Thou shalt's/Thou shalt not's) in the old testement,
            but not the 1st, would we still be considered a sinner?
            Anyway, these are all parts of common religion
            based questions that so many of us look only outside our
            Self to answer, while Meditation points to us to look
            inside for all the spiritual answers we need. And if
            we do, maybe that's because it was "Thy's" will to do so!
            Peace and blessings,
            Bob

            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
            > <no_reply@> wrote:
            > >
            > > "tarah513" faithearden@ wrote:
            > > >
            > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
            > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
            > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
            > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
            > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
            > > > >
            > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
            > > >
            > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me
            > tell
            > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
            > growing!
            > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing, herbicides,
            > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
            > > > "effortlessly".
            > > >
            > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I buy
            > some
            > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
            > > >
            > > > Faithe
            > > >
            > > Yo Faithe,
            > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
            > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
            > > of this Nasrudin story:
            > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
            > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
            > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
            > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
            > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
            > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor: "Unfortunately,
            > there's been a delay. But - God
            > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
            > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
            > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
            > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
            > > will be ready."
            > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
            > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
            > >
            > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
            > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
            > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
            > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
            > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
            > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
            > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
            > > conviction is not enough."
            > >
            > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
            > > statement:
            > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
            > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
            > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
            > > a product of Grace.
            > >
            > > Peace and blessings,
            > > Bob
            > >
            >
          • tarah513
            Dear Bob. OK, I see where you are coming from. I am not a Christian. I do not follow the precepts of the Bible or of any organized religion. It has been a
            Message 5 of 24 , Apr 5, 2010
            • 0 Attachment
              Dear Bob.

              OK, I see where you are coming from. I am not a Christian. I do not
              follow the precepts of the Bible or of any organized religion. It has
              been a quite freeing experience and definitely has given me a different
              perspective on life.

              "Thy will be done on earth" has a totally different connotation for me.

              Is it important? To me, it is very important and I constantly make an
              effort to not partake in the religions - west or east. I perceive
              religion as no different from politics = people scrambling for king of
              top of the heap.

              Can meditation be kept separate from religion?

              Thanks.

              Faithe



              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
              <no_reply@...> wrote:
              >
              > "tarah513" faithearden@ wrote:
              > >
              > > Dear Bob.
              > >
              > > Thanks for your reply.
              > >
              > > I have a penchant for reading and comprehending as the words are
              > > spoken/written. I take the meaning head-on. That is just the way I
              am.
              > > Having been a business leader, I was entrusted to communicate
              clearly,
              > > concisely and with no "double meaning". Perhaps we would have less
              > > problems with meditation, spiritual & religious speakings if it was
              > > either spoken in the same manner, or, if silence just prevaled on
              the
              > > topic if words could not do it justice.
              > >
              > > Reference "Thy will be done"...I am VERY serious when I ask this
              > > question...exactly who is this "thy"? I could never figure it out.
              > >
              > > Faithe
              > >
              > Yo Faithe,
              > "Thy will be done" is from the bible (Matthew 6:9-13)
              > "Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."
              > and for me, this goes perfectly with life experience.
              > The Big "THY in the sky/heart"/"God" is what is
              > being referred to here. An example of what that
              > is about is the reality that you can't be sure you won't
              > fall on your face when you get up from reading this,
              > can you? This is where the idea that everything
              > is just God's will being acted out comes in to play.
              > And this can segue into interesting inner enqueries
              > that are effective meditative exercises. For example,
              > do we really have free will, or is everything just
              > destiny? Are we capable of "doing" or do things just
              > happen? What about Karma? Reincarnation? Good
              > intentions? And so on and so on. Another ? I especially
              > like is the admonition to obey the 1st commandment, which
              > says to put no other god before God. Wouldn't that
              > mean that if we are thinking about anything but God
              > we are putting that thing/idea/feeling ahead of GOD?
              > And if we obey all of the other 612 commandments
              > (Thou shalt's/Thou shalt not's) in the old testement,
              > but not the 1st, would we still be considered a sinner?
              > Anyway, these are all parts of common religion
              > based questions that so many of us look only outside our
              > Self to answer, while Meditation points to us to look
              > inside for all the spiritual answers we need. And if
              > we do, maybe that's because it was "Thy's" will to do so!
              > Peace and blessings,
              > Bob
              >
              > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
              > > <no_reply@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > "tarah513" faithearden@ wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
              medit8ionsociety
              > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
              > > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
              > > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
              > > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
              > > > > >
              > > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
              > > > >
              > > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me
              > > tell
              > > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
              > > growing!
              > > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
              herbicides,
              > > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
              > > > > "effortlessly".
              > > > >
              > > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I
              buy
              > > some
              > > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
              > > > >
              > > > > Faithe
              > > > >
              > > > Yo Faithe,
              > > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
              > > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
              > > > of this Nasrudin story:
              > > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
              > > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
              > > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
              > > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
              > > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
              > > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
              "Unfortunately,
              > > there's been a delay. But - God
              > > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
              > > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
              > > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
              > > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
              > > > will be ready."
              > > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
              > > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
              > > >
              > > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
              > > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
              > > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
              > > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
              > > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
              > > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
              > > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
              > > > conviction is not enough."
              > > >
              > > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
              > > > statement:
              > > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
              > > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
              > > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
              > > > a product of Grace.
              > > >
              > > > Peace and blessings,
              > > > Bob
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • tarah513
              Dear Cosmic. Are you saying that you are ONE and that by your beingness along that shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL? My problem
              Message 6 of 24 , Apr 5, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Dear Cosmic.

                Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along that
                shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?

                My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
                "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".

                Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness idea
                is removed, what then can be realized?

                Faithe



                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                <hanifshekhem@...> wrote:
                >
                > Yo Faithe,
                > 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
                the ALL.
                >
                > ONE
                >
                >
                > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                faithearden@ wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Hi Cosmic.
                > >
                > > What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended and
                it
                > > is just a label?
                > >
                > > Thanks in advance.
                > >
                > > Faithe
                > >
                > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                > > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Beloved,
                > > >
                > > > Beautifully stated!
                > > >
                > > > ONE
                > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                medit8ionsociety
                > > no_reply@ wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > "tarah513" <faithearden@> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                > > medit8ionsociety
                > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                > > > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                > > > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                > > > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let
                me
                > > tell
                > > > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
                > > growing!
                > > > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                herbicides,
                > > > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                > > > > > "effortlessly".
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I
                buy
                > > some
                > > > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Faithe
                > > > > >
                > > > > Yo Faithe,
                > > > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
                > > > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                > > > > of this Nasrudin story:
                > > > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                > > > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                > > > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                > > > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                > > > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                > > > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                > > "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
                > > > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                > > > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                > > > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                > > > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                > > > > will be ready."
                > > > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                > > > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                > > > >
                > > > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                > > > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                > > > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                > > > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                > > > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                > > > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                > > > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                > > > > conviction is not enough."
                > > > >
                > > > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                > > > > statement:
                > > > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                > > > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
                > > > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                > > > > a product of Grace.
                > > > >
                > > > > Peace and blessings,
                > > > > Bob
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • medit8ionsociety
                ... Yo Faithe, The root word of religion is the same as Realization, and that s what Meditation is all about. I think if you search our web site
                Message 7 of 24 , Apr 5, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  "tarah513" <faithearden@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Dear Bob.
                  >
                  > OK, I see where you are coming from. I am not a Christian. I do not
                  > follow the precepts of the Bible or of any organized religion. It has
                  > been a quite freeing experience and definitely has given me a different
                  > perspective on life.
                  >
                  > "Thy will be done on earth" has a totally different connotation for me.
                  >
                  > Is it important? To me, it is very important and I constantly make an
                  > effort to not partake in the religions - west or east. I perceive
                  > religion as no different from politics = people scrambling for king of
                  > top of the heap.
                  >
                  > Can meditation be kept separate from religion?
                  >
                  > Thanks.
                  >
                  > Faithe
                  >
                  Yo Faithe,
                  The root word of religion is the same as Realization,
                  and that's what Meditation is all about. I think if you
                  search our web site http://www.meditationsociety.com
                  you'll see that there is no religion pointed to, but
                  that all of the techniques and concepts there are
                  applicable to every religion. There is no need to fear
                  that meditation is somehow always attached to religion.
                  As a matter of fact, some fundamentalist sects look on
                  meditation as some sort of witchcraft or devil inspired
                  thing. What I suggest is that you actually sit in
                  meditation and see what it does for you. I expect there
                  is little likelihood that you will start wearing a cross
                  or a yalmulka or start treating cows as gods. What I do
                  think will happen is that you will gain great insight
                  into who you are and what life is all about. And these
                  realizations will form a Faithe religion you can have real
                  faith in.
                  Peace and blessings,
                  Bob
                  >
                  > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
                  > <no_reply@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > "tarah513" faithearden@ wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Dear Bob.
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks for your reply.
                  > > >
                  > > > I have a penchant for reading and comprehending as the words are
                  > > > spoken/written. I take the meaning head-on. That is just the way I
                  > am.
                  > > > Having been a business leader, I was entrusted to communicate
                  > clearly,
                  > > > concisely and with no "double meaning". Perhaps we would have less
                  > > > problems with meditation, spiritual & religious speakings if it was
                  > > > either spoken in the same manner, or, if silence just prevaled on
                  > the
                  > > > topic if words could not do it justice.
                  > > >
                  > > > Reference "Thy will be done"...I am VERY serious when I ask this
                  > > > question...exactly who is this "thy"? I could never figure it out.
                  > > >
                  > > > Faithe
                  > > >
                  > > Yo Faithe,
                  > > "Thy will be done" is from the bible (Matthew 6:9-13)
                  > > "Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."
                  > > and for me, this goes perfectly with life experience.
                  > > The Big "THY in the sky/heart"/"God" is what is
                  > > being referred to here. An example of what that
                  > > is about is the reality that you can't be sure you won't
                  > > fall on your face when you get up from reading this,
                  > > can you? This is where the idea that everything
                  > > is just God's will being acted out comes in to play.
                  > > And this can segue into interesting inner enqueries
                  > > that are effective meditative exercises. For example,
                  > > do we really have free will, or is everything just
                  > > destiny? Are we capable of "doing" or do things just
                  > > happen? What about Karma? Reincarnation? Good
                  > > intentions? And so on and so on. Another ? I especially
                  > > like is the admonition to obey the 1st commandment, which
                  > > says to put no other god before God. Wouldn't that
                  > > mean that if we are thinking about anything but God
                  > > we are putting that thing/idea/feeling ahead of GOD?
                  > > And if we obey all of the other 612 commandments
                  > > (Thou shalt's/Thou shalt not's) in the old testement,
                  > > but not the 1st, would we still be considered a sinner?
                  > > Anyway, these are all parts of common religion
                  > > based questions that so many of us look only outside our
                  > > Self to answer, while Meditation points to us to look
                  > > inside for all the spiritual answers we need. And if
                  > > we do, maybe that's because it was "Thy's" will to do so!
                  > > Peace and blessings,
                  > > Bob
                  > >
                  > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
                  > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > "tarah513" faithearden@ wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                  > medit8ionsociety
                  > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                  > > > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                  > > > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                  > > > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me
                  > > > tell
                  > > > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
                  > > > growing!
                  > > > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                  > herbicides,
                  > > > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                  > > > > > "effortlessly".
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I
                  > buy
                  > > > some
                  > > > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Faithe
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > Yo Faithe,
                  > > > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
                  > > > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                  > > > > of this Nasrudin story:
                  > > > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                  > > > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                  > > > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                  > > > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                  > > > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                  > > > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                  > "Unfortunately,
                  > > > there's been a delay. But - God
                  > > > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                  > > > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                  > > > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                  > > > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                  > > > > will be ready."
                  > > > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                  > > > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                  > > > >
                  > > > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                  > > > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                  > > > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                  > > > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                  > > > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                  > > > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                  > > > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                  > > > > conviction is not enough."
                  > > > >
                  > > > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                  > > > > statement:
                  > > > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                  > > > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
                  > > > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                  > > > > a product of Grace.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Peace and blessings,
                  > > > > Bob
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • sandeep chatterjee
                  - From: medit8ionsociety Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari To:
                  Message 8 of 24 , Apr 5, 2010
                  • 0 Attachment


                    -

                    From: medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                    Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
                    To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Monday, April 5, 2010, 11:33 PM

                     

                    "tarah513" <faithearden@ ...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Dear Bob.
                    >
                    > Thanks for your reply.
                    >
                    > I have a penchant for reading and comprehending as the words are
                    > spoken/written. I take the meaning head-on. That is just the way I am.
                    > Having been a business leader, I was entrusted to communicate clearly,
                    > concisely and with no "double meaning". Perhaps we would have less
                    > problems with meditation, spiritual & religious speakings if it was
                    > either spoken in the same manner, or, if silence just prevaled on the
                    > topic if words could not do it justice.
                    >
                    > Reference "Thy will be done"...I am VERY serious when I ask this
                    > question...exactly who is this "thy"? I could never figure it out.
                    >
                    > Faithe


                    The source .....

                    ....from which the thought...

                    .... in the form of the question "Who is this thy".....


                    .....arose.






                    .

                  • sandeep chatterjee
                    ... From: tarah513 Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari To:
                    Message 9 of 24 , Apr 5, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment


                      --- On Tue, 4/6/10, tarah513 <faithearden@...> wrote:

                      From: tarah513 <faithearden@...>
                      Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
                      To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 3:45 AM

                       



                      Dear Bob.

                      OK, I see where you are coming from. I am not a Christian. I do not
                      follow the precepts of the Bible or of any organized religion. It has
                      been a quite freeing experience and definitely has given me a different
                      perspective on life.

                      "Thy will be done on earth" has a totally different connotation for me.

                      Is it important? To me, it is very important and I constantly make an
                      effort to not partake in the religions - west or east. I perceive
                      religion as no different from politics = people scrambling for king of
                      top of the heap.

                      Can meditation be kept separate from religion?

                      Thanks.

                      Faithe

                      -------------



                      Religion is never east or west.


                      The word religion means re-connect.


                      Re-connecting .......by ......and .......of .......that which never disconnected.



                      Incidentally, "what is..... is thy will".....


                      .....is the common bedrock of all flavours, eastern or western.



                      Including the flavour called science, which cannot isolate any separative state from the entirety...... in order to further  postulate an independent casual agent for any effect.


                      Just 2 weeks back neuro-scientists and behaviourial experts have collaborated and identified a "moral compass" region of the human brain which produces the thought seen as moral judgments.


                      And established that this moral compass can be significantly affected by subjecting it to differing magnetic fields.



                      So much for ........."it is me which thinks, ergo it is me which exists as a separative individuated self-entity(aka Descartes) and thus it is me which decides on my value system and thus the nature of my life ..........all out of my independent volition."




                      Now as a response to the above.......thought may get risen in the form ...

                      ..."to hell with re-connecting, all this re-connecting has only produced violence and intolerance whether at individual level or family or societal or national.

                      And what is being spouted as above is more of the same cockamamie re-connecting."




                      Such an risen thought  is perfectly fine.

                      And is as much a nuance of thy will.:-)







                    • sean tremblay
                      THY is first cause, the will that begets manifestation, it could be seen as intentione human being unlike a dog or cat can look at a hill top and imagine a
                      Message 10 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
                      • 0 Attachment
                        THY is first cause, the will that begets manifestation, it could be seen as intentione human being unlike a dog or cat can look at a hill top and imagine a house, he can then imagine
                        blue shutters and white siding, he can create in his mind every possible detail, this is THY Will, and then the human can gather the necessary materials and actually manifest this house, he can make it a reality from thought form to physical(some of you please avoid the urge to get all nitnoid about which form is really real, it's cliche and annoying) As I was saying the thought becomes manifest this is how in my opinion we are Made In Gods Image, it is the ability to call forth what is manifest what is potential and make it manifest, THY is god Gods will be done, THY Kingdom come-which means to actually realize and perceive the world as it really is, the problem with being made in gods image is that we can impose our will on what is already made manifest, this imposition of values and judgments causes confusion and pain and all kinds of problems/falsehood.  If you have a problem with the word God as some people do then think of God as first cause, because as far as we know everything came from something
                        In the beginning was the word
                        OM
                         
                        --- On Mon, 4/5/10, medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                        From: medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                        Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
                        To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Monday, April 5, 2010, 3:03 PM

                         

                        "tarah513" <faithearden@ ...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Dear Bob.
                        >
                        > Thanks for your reply.
                        >
                        > I have a penchant for reading and comprehending as the words are
                        > spoken/written. I take the meaning head-on. That is just the way I am.
                        > Having been a business leader, I was entrusted to communicate clearly,
                        > concisely and with no "double meaning". Perhaps we would have less
                        > problems with meditation, spiritual & religious speakings if it was
                        > either spoken in the same manner, or, if silence just prevaled on the
                        > topic if words could not do it justice.
                        >
                        > Reference "Thy will be done"...I am VERY serious when I ask this
                        > question...exactly who is this "thy"? I could never figure it out.
                        >
                        > Faithe
                        >
                        Yo Faithe,
                        "Thy will be done" is from the bible (Matthew 6:9-13)
                        "Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."
                        and for me, this goes perfectly with life experience.
                        The Big "THY in the sky/heart"/" God" is what is
                        being referred to here. An example of what that
                        is about is the reality that you can't be sure you won't
                        fall on your face when you get up from reading this,
                        can you? This is where the idea that everything
                        is just God's will being acted out comes in to play.
                        And this can segue into interesting inner enqueries
                        that are effective meditative exercises. For example,
                        do we really have free will, or is everything just
                        destiny? Are we capable of "doing" or do things just
                        happen? What about Karma? Reincarnation? Good
                        intentions? And so on and so on. Another ? I especially
                        like is the admonition to obey the 1st commandment, which
                        says to put no other god before God. Wouldn't that
                        mean that if we are thinking about anything but God
                        we are putting that thing/idea/feeling ahead of GOD?
                        And if we obey all of the other 612 commandments
                        (Thou shalt's/Thou shalt not's) in the old testement,
                        but not the 1st, would we still be considered a sinner?
                        Anyway, these are all parts of common religion
                        based questions that so many of us look only outside our
                        Self to answer, while Meditation points to us to look
                        inside for all the spiritual answers we need. And if
                        we do, maybe that's because it was "Thy's" will to do so!
                        Peace and blessings,
                        Bob

                        > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
                        > <no_reply@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > "tarah513" faithearden@ wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
                        > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                        > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                        > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                        > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                        > > > >
                        > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
                        > > >
                        > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me
                        > tell
                        > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
                        > growing!
                        > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing, herbicides,
                        > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                        > > > "effortlessly" .
                        > > >
                        > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I buy
                        > some
                        > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                        > > >
                        > > > Faithe
                        > > >
                        > > Yo Faithe,
                        > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
                        > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                        > > of this Nasrudin story:
                        > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                        > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                        > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                        > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                        > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                        > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor: "Unfortunately,
                        > there's been a delay. But - God
                        > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                        > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                        > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                        > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                        > > will be ready."
                        > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                        > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                        > >
                        > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                        > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                        > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                        > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                        > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                        > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                        > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                        > > conviction is not enough."
                        > >
                        > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                        > > statement:
                        > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                        > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
                        > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                        > > a product of Grace.
                        > >
                        > > Peace and blessings,
                        > > Bob
                        > >
                        >


                      • sean tremblay
                        P.S. Bob I liked the Mullah Nesruddin story, I could have used that line in Afghanistan! ... From: sean tremblay Subject: Re: [Meditation
                        Message 11 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          P.S. Bob
                          I liked the Mullah Nesruddin story, I could have used that line in Afghanistan!

                          --- On Tue, 4/6/10, sean tremblay <bethjams9@...> wrote:

                          From: sean tremblay <bethjams9@...>
                          Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
                          To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 8:01 AM

                           

                          THY is first cause, the will that begets manifestation, it could be seen as intentione human being unlike a dog or cat can look at a hill top and imagine a house, he can then imagine
                          blue shutters and white siding, he can create in his mind every possible detail, this is THY Will, and then the human can gather the necessary materials and actually manifest this house, he can make it a reality from thought form to physical(some of you please avoid the urge to get all nitnoid about which form is really real, it's cliche and annoying) As I was saying the thought becomes manifest this is how in my opinion we are Made In Gods Image, it is the ability to call forth what is manifest what is potential and make it manifest, THY is god Gods will be done, THY Kingdom come-which means to actually realize and perceive the world as it really is, the problem with being made in gods image is that we can impose our will on what is already made manifest, this imposition of values and judgments causes confusion and pain and all kinds of problems/falsehood.  If you have a problem with the word God as some people do then think of God as first cause, because as far as we know everything came from something
                          In the beginning was the word
                          OM
                           
                          --- On Mon, 4/5/10, medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:

                          From: medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroup s.com>
                          Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
                          To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
                          Date: Monday, April 5, 2010, 3:03 PM

                           

                          "tarah513" <faithearden@ ...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Dear Bob.
                          >
                          > Thanks for your reply.
                          >
                          > I have a penchant for reading and comprehending as the words are
                          > spoken/written. I take the meaning head-on. That is just the way I am.
                          > Having been a business leader, I was entrusted to communicate clearly,
                          > concisely and with no "double meaning". Perhaps we would have less
                          > problems with meditation, spiritual & religious speakings if it was
                          > either spoken in the same manner, or, if silence just prevaled on the
                          > topic if words could not do it justice.
                          >
                          > Reference "Thy will be done"...I am VERY serious when I ask this
                          > question...exactly who is this "thy"? I could never figure it out.
                          >
                          > Faithe
                          >
                          Yo Faithe,
                          "Thy will be done" is from the bible (Matthew 6:9-13)
                          "Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven."
                          and for me, this goes perfectly with life experience.
                          The Big "THY in the sky/heart"/" God" is what is
                          being referred to here. An example of what that
                          is about is the reality that you can't be sure you won't
                          fall on your face when you get up from reading this,
                          can you? This is where the idea that everything
                          is just God's will being acted out comes in to play.
                          And this can segue into interesting inner enqueries
                          that are effective meditative exercises. For example,
                          do we really have free will, or is everything just
                          destiny? Are we capable of "doing" or do things just
                          happen? What about Karma? Reincarnation? Good
                          intentions? And so on and so on. Another ? I especially
                          like is the admonition to obey the 1st commandment, which
                          says to put no other god before God. Wouldn't that
                          mean that if we are thinking about anything but God
                          we are putting that thing/idea/feeling ahead of GOD?
                          And if we obey all of the other 612 commandments
                          (Thou shalt's/Thou shalt not's) in the old testement,
                          but not the 1st, would we still be considered a sinner?
                          Anyway, these are all parts of common religion
                          based questions that so many of us look only outside our
                          Self to answer, while Meditation points to us to look
                          inside for all the spiritual answers we need. And if
                          we do, maybe that's because it was "Thy's" will to do so!
                          Peace and blessings,
                          Bob

                          > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
                          > <no_reply@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > "tarah513" faithearden@ wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
                          > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                          > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                          > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                          > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                          > > > >
                          > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
                          > > >
                          > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me
                          > tell
                          > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
                          > growing!
                          > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing, herbicides,
                          > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                          > > > "effortlessly" .
                          > > >
                          > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I buy
                          > some
                          > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                          > > >
                          > > > Faithe
                          > > >
                          > > Yo Faithe,
                          > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
                          > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                          > > of this Nasrudin story:
                          > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                          > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                          > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                          > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                          > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                          > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor: "Unfortunately,
                          > there's been a delay. But - God
                          > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                          > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                          > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                          > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                          > > will be ready."
                          > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                          > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                          > >
                          > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                          > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                          > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                          > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                          > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                          > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                          > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                          > > conviction is not enough."
                          > >
                          > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                          > > statement:
                          > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                          > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
                          > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                          > > a product of Grace.
                          > >
                          > > Peace and blessings,
                          > > Bob
                          > >
                          >



                        • WestWindWood
                          Meditation is a lot like farming. You have to have faith that if you make the effort to plant the seed that this is better than barren ground. First you have
                          Message 12 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment

                            Meditation is a lot like farming. You have to have faith that if you make the effort to plant the seed that this is better than barren ground. First you have to get the ground ready, start fresh by plowing all the weeds under, try to live the best that you can by giving up bad behavior, remove weeds that suck away from the good growth that is to come. You also have to balance the fertilizer to get the best yield possible. Then you plant the seeds; you make the commitment to this kind of future. There are different kinds of good seed, you just have to look around at what you have to work with, your soil and climate, and find the path, the technique, that works best for you. And now there is the weather, you just have to trust the process and take whatever comes. Maybe you can say the weather is effortless because you have no control over it, but at any rate just offer up the problems that occur, weather, and accept what comes.  So you trust the weather, and because of you past karma what ever happens happens, but it will be a learning experience. You keep trying and eventually, if not this year, then next year, you come out and notice that your field has all this new growth and you suddenly see this wonderful vitality; however, now with enlightenment, the wonderment of this vital energy, the work begins. You have studied agriculture, you are not going by guess here, and you know that you have to get to work in earnest and weed that which takes away from the good plantings; also look for insects, like bad friends that take away from your good efforts. Eventually your notice with the harvest that life is getting better, that yes there were problems along the way, but those problems seem like some distant worry that no longer is of concern. Maybe you die and become reincarnated to new land or maybe you work really hard on this particular farm. You have become richer, but now you have to keep at it, do the cycle over and over and become better and better over time. Eventually you become one with the vitality that comes from working the land.

                            --- On Sun, 4/4/10, tarah513 <faithearden@...> wrote:

                            From: tarah513 <faithearden@...>
                            Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
                            To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 5:20 PM

                             


                            --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
                            <no_reply@.. .> wrote:
                            >
                            > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                            > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                            > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                            > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                            >
                            HA-HA-HA!!!

                            I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me tell
                            you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the growing!
                            Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing, herbicides,
                            insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                            "effortlessly" .

                            Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I buy some
                            if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.

                            Faithe


                          • sean tremblay
                            Like it ... From: WestWindWood Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Faithe s Comment on Farming and Meditation To:
                            Message 13 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Like it

                              --- On Tue, 4/6/10, WestWindWood <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:

                              From: WestWindWood <westwindwood2003@...>
                              Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Faithe's Comment on Farming and Meditation
                              To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 12:31 PM

                               

                              Meditation is a lot like farming. You have to have faith that if you make the effort to plant the seed that this is better than barren ground. First you have to get the ground ready, start fresh by plowing all the weeds under, try to live the best that you can by giving up bad behavior, remove weeds that suck away from the good growth that is to come. You also have to balance the fertilizer to get the best yield possible. Then you plant the seeds; you make the commitment to this kind of future. There are different kinds of good seed, you just have to look around at what you have to work with, your soil and climate, and find the path, the technique, that works best for you. And now there is the weather, you just have to trust the process and take whatever comes. Maybe you can say the weather is effortless because you have no control over it, but at any rate just offer up the problems that occur, weather, and accept what comes.  So you trust the weather, and because of you past karma what ever happens happens, but it will be a learning experience. You keep trying and eventually, if not this year, then next year, you come out and notice that your field has all this new growth and you suddenly see this wonderful vitality; however, now with enlightenment, the wonderment of this vital energy, the work begins. You have studied agriculture, you are not going by guess here, and you know that you have to get to work in earnest and weed that which takes away from the good plantings; also look for insects, like bad friends that take away from your good efforts. Eventually your notice with the harvest that life is getting better, that yes there were problems along the way, but those problems seem like some distant worry that no longer is of concern. Maybe you die and become reincarnated to new land or maybe you work really hard on this particular farm. You have become richer, but now you have to keep at it, do the cycle over and over and become better and better over time. Eventually you become one with the vitality that comes from working the land.

                              --- On Sun, 4/4/10, tarah513 <faithearden@ earthlink. net> wrote:


                              From: tarah513 <faithearden@ earthlink. net>
                              Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
                              To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
                              Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 5:20 PM

                               


                              --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
                              <no_reply@.. .> wrote:
                              >
                              > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                              > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                              > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                              > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                              >
                              HA-HA-HA!!!

                              I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me tell
                              you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the growing!
                              Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing, herbicides,
                              insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                              "effortlessly" .

                              Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I buy some
                              if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.

                              Faithe



                            • Papajeff
                              Faithe, Nice analogy. I started to perspire just reading it. I grew up on a farm and remember the weeding in the heat of summer and harvesting by hand as a lot
                              Message 14 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Faithe,

                                Nice analogy. I started to
                                perspire just reading it.

                                I grew up on a farm and
                                remember the weeding in the
                                heat of summer and harvesting
                                by hand as a lot of work. I
                                also remember how delicious
                                the fresh fruits and veggies
                                tasted - just from the garden.

                                Still, the seed, once planted,
                                does grow effortlessly. Clearing
                                the way and keeping it clear
                                in order for the crop to reach
                                its fullest potential (of
                                enlightenment) is the work on
                                our part, as you've so nicely
                                stated.

                                Meditating is much easier than
                                weeding.

                                Thanks.

                                Jeff



                                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, WestWindWood <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Meditation is a lot like farming. You have to have faith that if you make the effort to plant the seed that this is better than barren ground. First you have to get the ground ready, start fresh by plowing all the weeds under, try to live the best that you can by giving up bad behavior, remove weeds that suck away from the good growth that is to come. You also have to balance the fertilizer to get the best yield possible. Then you plant the seeds; you make the commitment to this kind of future. There are different kinds of good seed, you just have to look around at what you have to work with, your soil and climate, and find the path, the technique, that works best for you. And now there is the weather, you just have to trust the process and take whatever comes. Maybe you can say the weather is effortless because you have no control over it, but at any rate just offer up the problems that occur, weather, and accept what comes.  So you trust the weather,
                                > and because of you past karma what ever happens happens, but it will be a learning experience. You keep trying and eventually, if not this year, then next year, you come out and notice that your field has all this new growth and you suddenly see this wonderful vitality; however, now with enlightenment, the wonderment of this vital energy, the work begins. You have studied agriculture, you are not going by guess here, and you know that you have to get to work in earnest and weed that which takes away from the good plantings; also look for insects, like bad friends that take away from your good efforts. Eventually your notice with the harvest that life is getting better, that yes there were problems along the way, but those problems seem like some distant worry that no longer is of concern. Maybe you die and become reincarnated to new land or maybe you work really hard on this particular farm. You have become richer, but now you have to keep at it, do the
                                > cycle over and over and become better and better over time. Eventually you become one with the vitality that comes from working the land.
                                >
                                > --- On Sun, 4/4/10, tarah513 <faithearden@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > From: tarah513 <faithearden@...>
                                > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
                                > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                                > Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 5:20 PM
                                >
                                >
                                >  
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
                                > <no_reply@ .> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                                > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                                > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                                > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                                > >
                                > HA-HA-HA!!!
                                >
                                > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let me tell
                                > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the growing!
                                > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing, herbicides,
                                > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                                > "effortlessly" .
                                >
                                > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I buy some
                                > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                                >
                                > Faithe
                                >
                              • cosmic_yogi1
                                Inquiring Faithe, I greet you with love and understanding. The Zen have asked--how can We truly understand verbally? If We go to the words of describing this
                                Message 15 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Inquiring Faithe,

                                  I greet you with love and understanding.

                                  The Zen have asked--how can We truly understand verbally? If We go to
                                  the words of describing this or that, how can We truly know it?

                                  Bob has stated in previous correspondences that "You missed the point by
                                  being so literal".

                                  This brings to mind the infamous Zen Koan of 'Emptying your cup'.

                                  Paraphrasing-- Your cup is too full!--'You are full of your opinions and
                                  speculations. How can you know the Zen unless you empty your cup?'

                                  Regarding your problem with what i have offered, i recall several
                                  metaphores: Is a drop of water from the ocean still the ocean? Hot and
                                  Cold is still temperature. Yin and Yang is still the Dao.

                                  Great Masters, Saints and Avatars alike have said that 'We are all
                                  inexstricably bound and linked to the source'. Life has been the
                                  greates revealer of this truth. Hence, the 'connectedness to the ALL'.

                                  As i continue to awake and observe on this journey, in meditation is
                                  where i realize the 'connectedness to the ALL'. To 'remove' that idea
                                  from meditation, i believe, misses the point.

                                  In profound peace,

                                  ONE


                                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                                  <faithearden@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Dear Cosmic.
                                  >
                                  > Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along
                                  that
                                  > shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
                                  >
                                  > My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
                                  > "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
                                  >
                                  > Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness
                                  idea
                                  > is removed, what then can be realized?
                                  >
                                  > Faithe
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                                  > hanifshekhem@ wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Yo Faithe,
                                  > > 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
                                  > the ALL.
                                  > >
                                  > > ONE
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                                  > faithearden@ wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Hi Cosmic.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended
                                  and
                                  > it
                                  > > > is just a label?
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Thanks in advance.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Faithe
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                                  > > > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Beloved,
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Beautifully stated!
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > ONE
                                  > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                  > medit8ionsociety
                                  > > > no_reply@ wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > "tarah513" <faithearden@> wrote:
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                  > > > medit8ionsociety
                                  > > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                                  > > > > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                                  > > > > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                                  > > > > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                                  > > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer.
                                  Let
                                  > me
                                  > > > tell
                                  > > > > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is
                                  the
                                  > > > growing!
                                  > > > > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                                  > herbicides,
                                  > > > > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT
                                  grow
                                  > > > > > > "effortlessly".
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can
                                  I
                                  > buy
                                  > > > some
                                  > > > > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > > Faithe
                                  > > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Yo Faithe,
                                  > > > > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
                                  > > > > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                                  > > > > > of this Nasrudin story:
                                  > > > > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                                  > > > > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                                  > > > > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                                  > > > > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                                  > > > > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                                  > > > > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                                  > > > "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
                                  > > > > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                                  > > > > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                                  > > > > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                                  > > > > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                                  > > > > > will be ready."
                                  > > > > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                                  > > > > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                                  > > > > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                                  > > > > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                                  > > > > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                                  > > > > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                                  > > > > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                                  > > > > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                                  > > > > > conviction is not enough."
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                                  > > > > > statement:
                                  > > > > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                                  > > > > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
                                  > > > > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                                  > > > > > a product of Grace.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Peace and blessings,
                                  > > > > > Bob
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • Bruce Morgen
                                  Dear Yogiji -- There are no ideas per se in meditation. The meditative state is the perceptual tabula rasa upon which all that comes and goes or arises and
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Dear Yogiji --

                                    There are no ideas per se in
                                    meditation. The meditative
                                    state is the perceptual tabula
                                    rasa upon which all that comes
                                    and goes or arises and dies is
                                    written, only to be erased and
                                    supplanted by still more
                                    aspects of the world of forms.

                                    By holding on to the the idea
                                    of Oneness, one is certainly
                                    filling the perceptual cup
                                    with yet another preconception
                                    -- remember, the Tao that can
                                    be spoken of (that is,
                                    expressed as an idea) is not
                                    the true Tao.

                                    Hiya, Faithe!

                                    Much love -- Bruce



                                    On 4/6/2010 6:16 PM, cosmic_yogi1 wrote:
                                    > Inquiring Faithe,
                                    >
                                    > I greet you with love and understanding.
                                    >
                                    > The Zen have asked--how can We truly understand verbally? If We go to
                                    > the words of describing this or that, how can We truly know it?
                                    >
                                    > Bob has stated in previous correspondences that "You missed the point by
                                    > being so literal".
                                    >
                                    > This brings to mind the infamous Zen Koan of 'Emptying your cup'.
                                    >
                                    > Paraphrasing-- Your cup is too full!--'You are full of your opinions and
                                    > speculations. How can you know the Zen unless you empty your cup?'
                                    >
                                    > Regarding your problem with what i have offered, i recall several
                                    > metaphores: Is a drop of water from the ocean still the ocean? Hot and
                                    > Cold is still temperature. Yin and Yang is still the Dao.
                                    >
                                    > Great Masters, Saints and Avatars alike have said that 'We are all
                                    > inexstricably bound and linked to the source'. Life has been the
                                    > greates revealer of this truth. Hence, the 'connectedness to the ALL'.
                                    >
                                    > As i continue to awake and observe on this journey, in meditation is
                                    > where i realize the 'connectedness to the ALL'. To 'remove' that idea
                                    > from meditation, i believe, misses the point.
                                    >
                                    > In profound peace,
                                    >
                                    > ONE
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                                    > <faithearden@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> Dear Cosmic.
                                    >>
                                    >> Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along
                                    >>
                                    > that
                                    >
                                    >> shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
                                    >>
                                    >> My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
                                    >> "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
                                    >>
                                    >> Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness
                                    >>
                                    > idea
                                    >
                                    >> is removed, what then can be realized?
                                    >>
                                    >> Faithe
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                                    >> hanifshekhem@ wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >>> Yo Faithe,
                                    >>> 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
                                    >>>
                                    >> the ALL.
                                    >>
                                    >>> ONE
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                                    >>>
                                    >> faithearden@ wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> Hi Cosmic.
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended
                                    >>>>
                                    > and
                                    >
                                    >> it
                                    >>
                                    >>>> is just a label?
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> Thanks in advance.
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> Faithe
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                                    >>>> <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>> Beloved,
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>> Beautifully stated!
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>> ONE
                                    >>>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                    >>>>>
                                    >> medit8ionsociety
                                    >>
                                    >>>> no_reply@ wrote:
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>>> "tarah513"<faithearden@> wrote:
                                    >>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>> medit8ionsociety
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>>>> <no_reply@> wrote:
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>>> By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                                    >>>>>>>> makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                                    >>>>>>>> the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                                    >>>>>>>> the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                                    >>>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>> HA-HA-HA!!!
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>> I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer.
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    > Let
                                    >
                                    >> me
                                    >>
                                    >>>> tell
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>>>> you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    > the
                                    >
                                    >>>> growing!
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>>>> Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >> herbicides,
                                    >>
                                    >>>>>>> insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    > grow
                                    >
                                    >>>>>>> "effortlessly".
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>> Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    > I
                                    >
                                    >> buy
                                    >>
                                    >>>> some
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>>>> if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>> Faithe
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>>
                                    >>>>>> Yo Faithe,
                                    >>>>>> You missed the point by being so literal, but
                                    >>>>>> your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                                    >>>>>> of this Nasrudin story:
                                    >>>>>> Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                                    >>>>>> to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                                    >>>>>> tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                                    >>>>>> be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                                    >>>>>> be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                                    >>>>>> which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                                    >>>>>>
                                    >>>> "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>>> willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                                    >>>>>> Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                                    >>>>>> was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                                    >>>>>> Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                                    >>>>>> will be ready."
                                    >>>>>> "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                                    >>>>>> "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                                    >>>>>>
                                    >>>>>> So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                                    >>>>>> similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                                    >>>>>> come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                                    >>>>>> "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                                    >>>>>> be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                                    >>>>>> The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                                    >>>>>> totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                                    >>>>>> conviction is not enough."
                                    >>>>>>
                                    >>>>>> As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                                    >>>>>> statement:
                                    >>>>>> "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                                    >>>>>> And that refers to all and everything, especially
                                    >>>>>> Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                                    >>>>>> a product of Grace.
                                    >>>>>>
                                    >>>>>> Peace and blessings,
                                    >>>>>> Bob
                                    >>>>>>
                                    >>>>>>
                                  • cosmic_yogi1
                                    Yo Bruce, i stand corrected---All perceptions are illusion. Thank you for sharing much metta, ONE
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Yo Bruce,

                                      i stand corrected---All perceptions are illusion.

                                      Thank you for sharing

                                      much metta,

                                      ONE

                                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513" <faithearden@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Dear Cosmic.
                                      >
                                      > Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along that
                                      > shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
                                      >
                                      > My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
                                      > "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
                                      >
                                      > Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness idea
                                      > is removed, what then can be realized?
                                      >
                                      > Faithe
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                                      > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Yo Faithe,
                                      > > 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
                                      > the ALL.
                                      > >
                                      > > ONE
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                                      > faithearden@ wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Hi Cosmic.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended and
                                      > it
                                      > > > is just a label?
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Thanks in advance.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Faithe
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                                      > > > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Beloved,
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Beautifully stated!
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > ONE
                                      > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                      > medit8ionsociety
                                      > > > no_reply@ wrote:
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > "tarah513" <faithearden@> wrote:
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                      > > > medit8ionsociety
                                      > > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                                      > > > > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                                      > > > > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                                      > > > > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                                      > > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let
                                      > me
                                      > > > tell
                                      > > > > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
                                      > > > growing!
                                      > > > > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                                      > herbicides,
                                      > > > > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                                      > > > > > > "effortlessly".
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I
                                      > buy
                                      > > > some
                                      > > > > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > > Faithe
                                      > > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Yo Faithe,
                                      > > > > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
                                      > > > > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                                      > > > > > of this Nasrudin story:
                                      > > > > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                                      > > > > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                                      > > > > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                                      > > > > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                                      > > > > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                                      > > > > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                                      > > > "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
                                      > > > > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                                      > > > > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                                      > > > > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                                      > > > > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                                      > > > > > will be ready."
                                      > > > > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                                      > > > > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                                      > > > > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                                      > > > > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                                      > > > > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                                      > > > > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                                      > > > > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                                      > > > > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                                      > > > > > conviction is not enough."
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                                      > > > > > statement:
                                      > > > > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                                      > > > > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
                                      > > > > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                                      > > > > > a product of Grace.
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > > > Peace and blessings,
                                      > > > > > Bob
                                      > > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • hanif sashekhem
                                      Peace and Love Bruce, i apprecilove your wisdom in respect towards Oneness, however i must ask you---is your understanding of the meditative state that you
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Apr 6, 2010
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Peace and Love Bruce,
                                         
                                        i apprecilove your wisdom in respect towards Oneness, however i must ask you---is your understanding of the meditative state that you describe also an idea?
                                        It seems that We all suffer from the illusions of our perceptions:)
                                         
                                        ONE
                                         
                                        > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                                        > From: editor@...
                                        > Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 19:52:49 -0400
                                        > Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Practice Makes Perfect by Kir Li Molari
                                        >
                                        > Dear Yogiji --
                                        >
                                        > There are no ideas per se in
                                        > meditation. The meditative
                                        > state is the perceptual tabula
                                        > rasa upon which all that comes
                                        > and goes or arises and dies is
                                        > written, only to be erased and
                                        > supplanted by still more
                                        > aspects of the world of forms.
                                        >
                                        > By holding on to the the idea
                                        > of Oneness, one is certainly
                                        > filling the perceptual cup
                                        > with yet another preconception
                                        > -- remember, the Tao that can
                                        > be spoken of (that is,
                                        > expressed as an idea) is not
                                        > the true Tao.
                                        >
                                        > Hiya, Faithe!
                                        >
                                        > Much love -- Bruce
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > On 4/6/2010 6:16 PM, cosmic_yogi1 wrote:
                                        > > Inquiring Faithe,
                                        > >
                                        > > I greet you with love and understanding.
                                        > >
                                        > > The Zen have asked--how can We truly understand verbally? If We go to
                                        > > the words of describing this or that, how can We truly know it?
                                        > >
                                        > > Bob has stated in previous correspondences that "You missed the point by
                                        > > being so literal".
                                        > >
                                        > > This brings to mind the infamous Zen Koan of 'Emptying your cup'.
                                        > >
                                        > > Paraphrasing-- Your cup is too full!--'You are full of your opinions and
                                        > > speculations. How can you know the Zen unless you empty your cup?'
                                        > >
                                        > > Regarding your problem with what i have offered, i recall several
                                        > > metaphores: Is a drop of water from the ocean still the ocean? Hot and
                                        > > Cold is still temperature. Yin and Yang is still the Dao.
                                        > >
                                        > > Great Masters, Saints and Avatars alike have said that 'We are all
                                        > > inexstricably bound and linked to the source'. Life has been the
                                        > > greates revealer of this truth. Hence, the 'connectedness to the ALL'.
                                        > >
                                        > > As i continue to awake and observe on this journey, in meditation is
                                        > > where i realize the 'connectedness to the ALL'. To 'remove' that idea
                                        > > from meditation, i believe, misses the point.
                                        > >
                                        > > In profound peace,
                                        > >
                                        > > ONE
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                                        > > <faithearden@...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Dear Cosmic.
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along
                                        > >>
                                        > > that
                                        > >
                                        > >> shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
                                        > >>
                                        > >> My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
                                        > >> "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness
                                        > >>
                                        > > idea
                                        > >
                                        > >> is removed, what then can be realized?
                                        > >>
                                        > >> Faithe
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >>
                                        > >> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                                        > >> hanifshekhem@ wrote:
                                        > >>
                                        > >>> Yo Faithe,
                                        > >>> 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
                                        > >>>
                                        > >> the ALL.
                                        > >>
                                        > >>> ONE
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>>
                                        > >>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                                        > >>>
                                        > >> faithearden@ wrote:
                                        > >>
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>> Hi Cosmic.
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>> What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended
                                        > >>>>
                                        > > and
                                        > >
                                        > >> it
                                        > >>
                                        > >>>> is just a label?
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>> Thanks in advance.
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>> Faithe
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                                        > >>>> <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>>>
                                        > >>>>> Beloved,
                                        > >>>>>
                                        > >>>>> Beautifully stated!
                                        > >>>>>
                                        > >>>>> ONE
                                        > >>>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                        > >>>>>
                                        > >> medit8ionsociety
                                        > >>
                                        > >>>> no_reply@ wrote:
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>>>> "tarah513"<faithearden@> wrote:
                                        > >>>>>>
                                        > >>>>>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                        > >>>>>>>
                                        > >>>> medit8ionsociety
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>>>>> <no_reply@> wrote:
                                        > >>>>>>>
                                        > >>>>>>>> By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                                        > >>>>>>>> makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                                        > >>>>>>>> the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                                        > >>>>>>>> the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                                        > >>>>>>>>
                                        > >>>>>>>>
                                        > >>>>>>> HA-HA-HA!!!
                                        > >>>>>>>
                                        > >>>>>>> I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer.
                                        > >>>>>>>
                                        > > Let
                                        > >
                                        > >> me
                                        > >>
                                        > >>>> tell
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>>>>> you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is
                                        > >>>>>>>
                                        > > the
                                        > >
                                        > >>>> growing!
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>>>>> Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                                        > >>>>>>>
                                        > >> herbicides,
                                        > >>
                                        > >>>>>>> insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT
                                        > >>>>>>>
                                        > > grow
                                        > >
                                        > >>>>>>> "effortlessly".
                                        > >>>>>>>
                                        > >>>>>>> Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can
                                        > >>>>>>>
                                        > > I
                                        > >
                                        > >> buy
                                        > >>
                                        > >>>> some
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>>>>> if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                                        > >>>>>>>
                                        > >>>>>>> Faithe
                                        > >>>>>>>
                                        > >>>>>>>
                                        > >>>>>> Yo Faithe,
                                        > >>>>>> You missed the point by being so literal, but
                                        > >>>>>> your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                                        > >>>>>> of this Nasrudin story:
                                        > >>>>>> Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                                        > >>>>>> to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                                        > >>>>>> tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                                        > >>>>>> be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                                        > >>>>>> be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                                        > >>>>>> which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                                        > >>>>>>
                                        > >>>> "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
                                        > >>>>
                                        > >>>>>> willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                                        > >>>>>> Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                                        > >>>>>> was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                                        > >>>>>> Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                                        > >>>>>> will be ready."
                                        > >>>>>> "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                                        > >>>>>> "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                                        > >>>>>>
                                        > >>>>>> So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                                        > >>>>>> similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                                        > >>>>>> come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                                        > >>>>>> "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                                        > >>>>>> be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                                        > >>>>>> The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                                        > >>>>>> totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                                        > >>>>>> conviction is not enough."
                                        > >>>>>>
                                        > >>>>>> As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                                        > >>>>>> statement:
                                        > >>>>>> "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                                        > >>>>>> And that refers to all and everything, especially
                                        > >>>>>> Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                                        > >>>>>> a product of Grace.
                                        > >>>>>>
                                        > >>>>>> Peace and blessings,
                                        > >>>>>> Bob
                                        > >>>>>>
                                        > >>>>>>
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/meditationsocietyofamerica/
                                        >
                                        > <*> Your email settings:
                                        > Individual Email | Traditional
                                        >
                                        > <*> To change settings online go to:
                                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/meditationsocietyofamerica/join
                                        > (Yahoo! ID required)
                                        >
                                        > <*> To change settings via email:
                                        > meditationsocietyofamerica-digest@yahoogroups.com
                                        > meditationsocietyofamerica-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                                        >
                                        > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                        > meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                        >
                                        > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                                        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        >


                                        The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. Get started.
                                      • Papajeff
                                        Faithe, Beyond connectedness is the realization put so beautifully by Ramana Maharshi: The very form of God if Love. So it s One, in the matrix of Love. If
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Apr 7, 2010
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Faithe,

                                          Beyond "connectedness" is the
                                          realization put so beautifully
                                          by Ramana Maharshi:

                                          "The very form of God if Love."

                                          So it's One, in the matrix of Love.

                                          If the realization or understanding
                                          includes merely the connectness
                                          or sense of Oneness...but not
                                          the God (Love)-Realization, the
                                          realization is not on the
                                          level of the jnani yogi - there
                                          is no Knowing.

                                          Those who mistake the Oneness
                                          for fully awakened tend to
                                          be the one's who parrot the
                                          half-baked teachings about,
                                          "nothing to realize, everyone's
                                          already enlightened, just get
                                          on with your life"...pablum.

                                          One Love,

                                          Jeff

                                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513" <faithearden@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Dear Cosmic.
                                          >
                                          > Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along that
                                          > shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
                                          >
                                          > My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
                                          > "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
                                          >
                                          > Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness idea
                                          > is removed, what then can be realized?
                                          >
                                          > Faithe
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                                          > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > Yo Faithe,
                                          > > 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
                                          > the ALL.
                                          > >
                                          > > ONE
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                                          > faithearden@ wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Hi Cosmic.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended and
                                          > it
                                          > > > is just a label?
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Thanks in advance.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Faithe
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                                          > > > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Beloved,
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Beautifully stated!
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > ONE
                                          > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                          > medit8ionsociety
                                          > > > no_reply@ wrote:
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > "tarah513" <faithearden@> wrote:
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                          > > > medit8ionsociety
                                          > > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                                          > > > > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                                          > > > > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                                          > > > > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                                          > > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let
                                          > me
                                          > > > tell
                                          > > > > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
                                          > > > growing!
                                          > > > > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                                          > herbicides,
                                          > > > > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                                          > > > > > > "effortlessly".
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I
                                          > buy
                                          > > > some
                                          > > > > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > > Faithe
                                          > > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Yo Faithe,
                                          > > > > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
                                          > > > > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                                          > > > > > of this Nasrudin story:
                                          > > > > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                                          > > > > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                                          > > > > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                                          > > > > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                                          > > > > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                                          > > > > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                                          > > > "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
                                          > > > > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                                          > > > > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                                          > > > > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                                          > > > > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                                          > > > > > will be ready."
                                          > > > > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                                          > > > > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                                          > > > > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                                          > > > > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                                          > > > > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                                          > > > > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                                          > > > > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                                          > > > > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                                          > > > > > conviction is not enough."
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                                          > > > > > statement:
                                          > > > > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                                          > > > > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
                                          > > > > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                                          > > > > > a product of Grace.
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > > > Peace and blessings,
                                          > > > > > Bob
                                          > > > > >
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • cosmic_yogi1
                                          Faithe, As the drop of water is to the ocean-that is what Oneness is. The essence of the drop is every bit the essence of the totality. All that we hold dear
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Apr 7, 2010
                                          • 0 Attachment

                                            Faithe,

                                            As the drop of water is to the ocean-that is what Oneness is.  The essence of the drop is every bit the essence of the totality.

                                            All that we hold dear to our hearts, the things our soul yearns for-we do not have to give it up through the act of awakening!  Of course not, we recieve it by awakening!  This is the whole point.  Waking from this dream does not mean everything disappears.  It means everthing appears as it really is.  Life then is seen as a unified Whole, as Oneness.  Oneness knows only ONE.  In Oneness the puzzle has been made whole.  In Oneness there is no more good or bad, desirable or undesirable.  It is absolute fulfilment, completion, bliss, whatever we may call it.  It is a state of being beyond hope, for all hope is fulfilled.  We can not even faintly begin to describe the indescribable.  It can only be experienced.

                                            ONE

                                             

                                             


                                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Papajeff" <jeff@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Faithe,
                                            >
                                            > Beyond "connectedness" is the
                                            > realization put so beautifully
                                            > by Ramana Maharshi:
                                            >
                                            > "The very form of God if Love."
                                            >
                                            > So it's One, in the matrix of Love.
                                            >
                                            > If the realization or understanding
                                            > includes merely the connectness
                                            > or sense of Oneness...but not
                                            > the God (Love)-Realization, the
                                            > realization is not on the
                                            > level of the jnani yogi - there
                                            > is no Knowing.
                                            >
                                            > Those who mistake the Oneness
                                            > for fully awakened tend to
                                            > be the one's who parrot the
                                            > half-baked teachings about,
                                            > "nothing to realize, everyone's
                                            > already enlightened, just get
                                            > on with your life"...pablum.
                                            >
                                            > One Love,
                                            >
                                            > Jeff
                                            >
                                            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513" faithearden@ wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Dear Cosmic.
                                            > >
                                            > > Are you saying that you are "ONE" and that by your beingness along that
                                            > > shows you represent unversality and are connected to the ALL?
                                            > >
                                            > > My problem with what you have offered is that saying their is a
                                            > > "connectedness to the ALL" is quite different from being "ALL".
                                            > >
                                            > > Where this is leading is that in meditation, once the connectedness idea
                                            > > is removed, what then can be realized?
                                            > >
                                            > > Faithe
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                                            > > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Yo Faithe,
                                            > > > 'ONE' is a symbol representing the universality and connectedness to
                                            > > the ALL.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > ONE
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tarah513"
                                            > > faithearden@ wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Hi Cosmic.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > What does your name "ONE" mean...or is there no meaning intended and
                                            > > it
                                            > > > > is just a label?
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Thanks in advance.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Faithe
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "cosmic_yogi1"
                                            > > > > <hanifshekhem@> wrote:
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Beloved,
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > Beautifully stated!
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > > > ONE
                                            > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                            > > medit8ionsociety
                                            > > > > no_reply@ wrote:
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > "tarah513" <faithearden@> wrote:
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                            > > > > medit8ionsociety
                                            > > > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > > By Grace alone effort is effortless. The farmer
                                            > > > > > > > > makes an effort while planting his crop. By Grace,
                                            > > > > > > > > the crop grows effortlessly. The farmer then reaps
                                            > > > > > > > > the harvest and distributes it, and many are nurtured.
                                            > > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > HA-HA-HA!!!
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > I sure can tell that you are not a farmer! I am a farmer. Let
                                            > > me
                                            > > > > tell
                                            > > > > > > > you, the EASY part is planting the crop. The tough part is the
                                            > > > > growing!
                                            > > > > > > > Once the seed changes to plant, watering, fertilizing,
                                            > > herbicides,
                                            > > > > > > > insecticides are constantly administered. A seed does NOT grow
                                            > > > > > > > "effortlessly".
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > Tell me more of this "grace" that has eluded me...where can I
                                            > > buy
                                            > > > > some
                                            > > > > > > > if that is all that is needed for reaping a harvest.
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > > Faithe
                                            > > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > Yo Faithe,
                                            > > > > > > You missed the point by being so literal, but
                                            > > > > > > your perspective on this somewhat reminds me
                                            > > > > > > of this Nasrudin story:
                                            > > > > > > Our Mullah Nasruddin took all his savings and went
                                            > > > > > > to buy a shirt. All eyes and ears he entered a
                                            > > > > > > tailor's shop, was measured and told: "Will you
                                            > > > > > > be back in a week? God willing - your shirt will
                                            > > > > > > be finished." The week was an exercise in patience,
                                            > > > > > > which duly passed and our hero returned to the tailor:
                                            > > > > "Unfortunately, there's been a delay. But - God
                                            > > > > > > willing - your shirt will be ready tomorrow."
                                            > > > > > > Nasrudin returned the next day. "I am sorry" he
                                            > > > > > > was greeted "just a few more stiches, a few more...
                                            > > > > > > Pray be back tomorrow and - God willing - it
                                            > > > > > > will be ready."
                                            > > > > > > "And " was the vexed Mullah heard to say
                                            > > > > > > "how long will it take, if we leave God out of it?"
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > So, perhaps believing in God or Grace, or anything
                                            > > > > > > similar will not get your shirt made, or your crops to
                                            > > > > > > come to harvest, but, as Sri Mahararaj Nisargadatta said
                                            > > > > > > "Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not
                                            > > > > > > be convinced that effort will take you nowhere.
                                            > > > > > > The self is so self-confident that unless it is
                                            > > > > > > totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal
                                            > > > > > > conviction is not enough."
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > As for me, I feel at One with another Kir Li Molari
                                            > > > > > > statement:
                                            > > > > > > "There's only one rule in this game – Thy will be done!"
                                            > > > > > > And that refers to all and everything, especially
                                            > > > > > > Enlightenment (or whatever you want to label IT) being
                                            > > > > > > a product of Grace.
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > > > Peace and blessings,
                                            > > > > > > Bob
                                            > > > > > >
                                            > > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            >

                                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.