Re: Enlightenment Realities
- Yo Papajeff,
Thanks, but I'm all for clarifications of the words
of the Saints. Every religion has a tradition of
expounding on what wisdom has been shared by their
Gods or holiest people. And I certainly feel it's a
"good thing" when someone helps point out a position
that lets us gain greater understanding about such an
esoteric subject as non-duality, or whatever we label
Sri Ramana's thoughts (and non-thoughts). Matter of
fact, you (your Self) do this kind of thing superbly!
Peace and blessings,
"Papajeff" <jeff@...> wrote:
> Thanks, Bob.
> The red flag of ego (mind's)
> presence wil be obvious in
> one's attempt to say what
> Ramana said, "only better".
> It is very comforting that
> you let the words of Bhagavan
> speak for themselves without
> feeling the need to add
> "your" elucidation.
> A silent namaste,
> --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, medit8ionsociety <no_reply@> wrote:
> > Question : Can the meditator be affected by
> > physical disturbances during nirvikalpa samadhi?
> > My friend and I disagree on this point.
> > Ramana Maharshi : Both of you are right. One of
> > you is referring to kevala and the other to sahaja
> > samadhi. In both cases the mind is immersed in
> > the bliss of the Self. In the former, physical
> > movements may cause disturbance to the meditator,
> > because the mind has not completely died out.
> > It is still alive and can, as after deep sleep,
> > at any moment be active again.
> > It is compared to a bucket, which, although
> > completely submerged under water, can be pulled
> > out by a rope which is still attached to it. In
> > sahaja, the mind has sunk completely into the
> > Self, like the bucket which has got drowned in
> > the depths of the well along with its rope. In
> > sahaja there is nothing left to be disturbed or
> > pulled back to the world. One's activities then
> > resemble that of the child who sucks its mother's
> > milk in sleep, and is hardly aware of the feeding.
> > Question : How can one function in the world
> > in such a state?
> > Ramana Maharshi : One who accustoms himself
> > naturally to meditation and enjoys the bliss
> > of meditation will not lose his samadhi state
> > whatever external work he does, whatever thoughts
> > may come to him. That is sahaja nirvikalpa. Sahaja
> > nirvikalpa is nasa [total destruction of the mind]
> > whereas kevala nirvikalpa is laya [temporary
> > abeyance of the mind].
> > Those who are in the laya samadhi state will
> > have to bring the mind back under control from
> > time to time. If the mind is destroyed, as it
> > is in sahaja samadhi, it will never sprout again.
> > Whatever is done by such people is just incidental,
> > they will never slide down from their high state.
> > Those that are in the kevala nirvikalpa state
> > are not realized, they are still seekers. Those
> > who are in the sahaja nirvikalpa state are like
> > a light in a windless place, or the ocean without
> > waves; that is, there is no movement in them. They
> > cannot find anything which is different from
> > themselves. For those who do not reach that state,
> > everything appears to be different from themselves.
> > Question : Is the experience of kevala nirvikalpa
> > the same as that of sahaja, although one comes down
> > from it to the relative world?
> > Ramana Maharshi : There is neither coming down nor
> > going up - he who goes up and down is not real. In
> > kevala nirvikalpa there is the mental bucket still
> > in existence under the water, and it can be pulled
> > out at any moment. Sahaja is like the river that
> > has linked up with the ocean from which there is
> > no return. Why do you ask all these questions? Go
> > on practicing till you have the experience yourself.