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Re: Enlightenment Realities

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  • Papajeff
    Thanks, Bob. The red flag of ego (mind s) presence wil be obvious in one s attempt to say what Ramana said, only better . It is very comforting that you let
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 26, 2010
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      Thanks, Bob.

      The red flag of ego (mind's)
      presence wil be obvious in
      one's attempt to say what
      Ramana said, "only better".

      It is very comforting that
      you let the words of Bhagavan
      speak for themselves without
      feeling the need to add
      "your" elucidation.

      A silent namaste,

      Jeff



      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety <no_reply@...> wrote:
      >
      > Question : Can the meditator be affected by
      > physical disturbances during nirvikalpa samadhi?
      > My friend and I disagree on this point.
      > Ramana Maharshi : Both of you are right. One of
      > you is referring to kevala and the other to sahaja
      > samadhi. In both cases the mind is immersed in
      > the bliss of the Self. In the former, physical
      > movements may cause disturbance to the meditator,
      > because the mind has not completely died out.
      > It is still alive and can, as after deep sleep,
      > at any moment be active again.
      >
      > It is compared to a bucket, which, although
      > completely submerged under water, can be pulled
      > out by a rope which is still attached to it. In
      > sahaja, the mind has sunk completely into the
      > Self, like the bucket which has got drowned in
      > the depths of the well along with its rope. In
      > sahaja there is nothing left to be disturbed or
      > pulled back to the world. One's activities then
      > resemble that of the child who sucks its mother's
      > milk in sleep, and is hardly aware of the feeding.
      >
      > Question : How can one function in the world
      > in such a state?
      > Ramana Maharshi : One who accustoms himself
      > naturally to meditation and enjoys the bliss
      > of meditation will not lose his samadhi state
      > whatever external work he does, whatever thoughts
      > may come to him. That is sahaja nirvikalpa. Sahaja
      > nirvikalpa is nasa [total destruction of the mind]
      > whereas kevala nirvikalpa is laya [temporary
      > abeyance of the mind].
      >
      > Those who are in the laya samadhi state will
      > have to bring the mind back under control from
      > time to time. If the mind is destroyed, as it
      > is in sahaja samadhi, it will never sprout again.
      > Whatever is done by such people is just incidental,
      > they will never slide down from their high state.
      >
      > Those that are in the kevala nirvikalpa state
      > are not realized, they are still seekers. Those
      > who are in the sahaja nirvikalpa state are like
      > a light in a windless place, or the ocean without
      > waves; that is, there is no movement in them. They
      > cannot find anything which is different from
      > themselves. For those who do not reach that state,
      > everything appears to be different from themselves.
      >
      > Question : Is the experience of kevala nirvikalpa
      > the same as that of sahaja, although one comes down
      > from it to the relative world?
      > Ramana Maharshi : There is neither coming down nor
      > going up - he who goes up and down is not real. In
      > kevala nirvikalpa there is the mental bucket still
      > in existence under the water, and it can be pulled
      > out at any moment. Sahaja is like the river that
      > has linked up with the ocean from which there is
      > no return. Why do you ask all these questions? Go
      > on practicing till you have the experience yourself.
      >
    • medit8ionsociety
      Yo Papajeff, Thanks, but I m all for clarifications of the words of the Saints. Every religion has a tradition of expounding on what wisdom has been shared by
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 27, 2010
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        Yo Papajeff,
        Thanks, but I'm all for clarifications of the words
        of the Saints. Every religion has a tradition of
        expounding on what wisdom has been shared by their
        Gods or holiest people. And I certainly feel it's a
        "good thing" when someone helps point out a position
        that lets us gain greater understanding about such an
        esoteric subject as non-duality, or whatever we label
        Sri Ramana's thoughts (and non-thoughts). Matter of
        fact, you (your Self) do this kind of thing superbly!
        Peace and blessings,
        Bob

        "Papajeff" <jeff@...> wrote:
        >
        > Thanks, Bob.
        >
        > The red flag of ego (mind's)
        > presence wil be obvious in
        > one's attempt to say what
        > Ramana said, "only better".
        >
        > It is very comforting that
        > you let the words of Bhagavan
        > speak for themselves without
        > feeling the need to add
        > "your" elucidation.
        >
        > A silent namaste,
        >
        > Jeff
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety <no_reply@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Question : Can the meditator be affected by
        > > physical disturbances during nirvikalpa samadhi?
        > > My friend and I disagree on this point.
        > > Ramana Maharshi : Both of you are right. One of
        > > you is referring to kevala and the other to sahaja
        > > samadhi. In both cases the mind is immersed in
        > > the bliss of the Self. In the former, physical
        > > movements may cause disturbance to the meditator,
        > > because the mind has not completely died out.
        > > It is still alive and can, as after deep sleep,
        > > at any moment be active again.
        > >
        > > It is compared to a bucket, which, although
        > > completely submerged under water, can be pulled
        > > out by a rope which is still attached to it. In
        > > sahaja, the mind has sunk completely into the
        > > Self, like the bucket which has got drowned in
        > > the depths of the well along with its rope. In
        > > sahaja there is nothing left to be disturbed or
        > > pulled back to the world. One's activities then
        > > resemble that of the child who sucks its mother's
        > > milk in sleep, and is hardly aware of the feeding.
        > >
        > > Question : How can one function in the world
        > > in such a state?
        > > Ramana Maharshi : One who accustoms himself
        > > naturally to meditation and enjoys the bliss
        > > of meditation will not lose his samadhi state
        > > whatever external work he does, whatever thoughts
        > > may come to him. That is sahaja nirvikalpa. Sahaja
        > > nirvikalpa is nasa [total destruction of the mind]
        > > whereas kevala nirvikalpa is laya [temporary
        > > abeyance of the mind].
        > >
        > > Those who are in the laya samadhi state will
        > > have to bring the mind back under control from
        > > time to time. If the mind is destroyed, as it
        > > is in sahaja samadhi, it will never sprout again.
        > > Whatever is done by such people is just incidental,
        > > they will never slide down from their high state.
        > >
        > > Those that are in the kevala nirvikalpa state
        > > are not realized, they are still seekers. Those
        > > who are in the sahaja nirvikalpa state are like
        > > a light in a windless place, or the ocean without
        > > waves; that is, there is no movement in them. They
        > > cannot find anything which is different from
        > > themselves. For those who do not reach that state,
        > > everything appears to be different from themselves.
        > >
        > > Question : Is the experience of kevala nirvikalpa
        > > the same as that of sahaja, although one comes down
        > > from it to the relative world?
        > > Ramana Maharshi : There is neither coming down nor
        > > going up - he who goes up and down is not real. In
        > > kevala nirvikalpa there is the mental bucket still
        > > in existence under the water, and it can be pulled
        > > out at any moment. Sahaja is like the river that
        > > has linked up with the ocean from which there is
        > > no return. Why do you ask all these questions? Go
        > > on practicing till you have the experience yourself.
        > >
        >
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