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Re: Cause and Effect and On-line Strategies/Bob

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  • Papajeff
    Hey Bob, Neat take on the loop back to the Big Bang as one of Awakening...at least that was my take on your take. About your generous comments: I would be
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 17, 2010
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      Hey Bob,

      Neat take on the loop back
      to the Big Bang as one of
      Awakening...at least that
      was my take on your take.

      About your generous comments:
      I would be humbled by them...
      except my brother often asks,
      "How can you be humble and
      know you're humble?"

      100W Love,

      Jeff

      PS: Strategies? Well, maybe
      a couple...or so...resonated
      as vaguely familiar.

      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety <no_reply@...> wrote:
      >
      > Carl Sagan once said that to really find
      > the cause of any effect you have to go back
      > to the Big Bang and work from there. In a
      > universe that's characterized by adjectives
      > and adverbs like "Chaos", it's interesting
      > that things pop up exactly when they would
      > fit in. Right after reading Papajeff and
      > Sandeep, both of whom I respect and think
      > are wiser than the average bear, I found this
      > site that deals with strategies that are used
      > in on-line arguments.
      > http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70321
      > I hope you enjoy what is shareed there even if it
      > doesn't exactly fit with what has been going on
      > in these recent posts. In the case of the last few
      > posts here, I want to say that when I read Sandeep,
      > my mind's chatter often stops and that opens the
      > "doors of perception", and since Swami Chidananda's
      > recent death, I think Sandeep may be the most conscious
      > person in India. Similarly, Papajeff is one of
      > the brightest lights in America and has been very
      > generous in presenting his wise in-sights. Both of these
      > guys have demonstrated real Charity in the wisdom they
      > share, and as I consider sharing those things that
      > you have found to have helped you evolve in
      > consciousness with others to the best thing you can
      > do for someone. I feel this forum has been privileged
      > to have so often been able to nurture our inner gardens
      > with their enlightening words. I suggest that it is well
      > worth checking out Papajeff's Yahoo group
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mysticheartmeditation/
      > and Sandeep's web site:
      > http://www.the-covenant.net/
      > They both are thought provoking and thought stopping.
      > And both have the potential to take you right to
      > The Big Bang!
      > Enjoy!
      > Peace and blessings,
      > Bob
      >
    • medit8ionsociety
      ... Yo Aideen, Yeah, Sean can do some writing! And his real-life adventures are so unique and different there s no doubt he ll be a sensation when he begins to
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 18, 2010
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        "Aideen Mckenna" <aideenmck@...> wrote:
        >
        > Thanks, Bob, for letting us know more about Sandeep. And thanks for nudging
        > Sean about the book he needs to write – because I, for one, need to read it.
        >
        > Aideen
        >
        Yo Aideen,
        Yeah, Sean can do some writing! And his real-life
        adventures are so unique and different there's no
        doubt he'll be a sensation when he begins to
        share his experiences in a venue that brings a larger
        audience to his unique persona. He'll do something some
        day that has this come about and I hope it's sooner than later.
        Peace and blessings,
        Bob
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        > medit8ionsociety
        > Sent: February-17-10 8:09 PM
        > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Cause and Effect and On-line
        > Strategies
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > sean tremblay <bethjams9@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I am not even going to pretend to understand what direction this
        > conversation has turned.I asked a simple question about doing good things
        > for bullshit reasons and now these rantings are about as meaningfull to me
        > as the garbled speach of your average bag ladyAnd you sir Sandeep I probably
        > should respect you like Bob does...But I don't probably because I have no
        > Idea who you are....But you seem to be full of answers and the rest of us
        > should all nbow down to your greatness...But I don't think so you spew ego
        > laden rants that from a position of superiority. Â Now I have been biting my
        > tonque with you for the past two years, to be polite but I have had you are
        > offensive, combative and easily offended, And I am tired of you you are
        > tedious at best! Â You also keep mentioning the war in Afghanistn in a round
        > about way You got something you want to say to me come out and say! I've
        > heard it all before.Bob I'm sorry about this you have been very supportive
        > over
        > > the past few years, and I appreciate all you have done for me. Â But I am
        > not going to bow wide eyed like an school girl just because a guy has a
        > reputation for have cows follow him. I'm fuckin done with this shit thank
        > youÂ
        > >
        > Yo Sean,
        > Semi-interesting reaction to Sandeep. I have always
        > seen him as "not there". By that I mean he has no
        > attachment to name, fame, game, and just presents
        > his presents, which come in the form of reminders
        > (using reminders to refer to "hey - look at what
        > your mind is chattering about"). And for me, he does
        > it very well. To me where he is coming from is in the
        > non-dual, Advaita, Vedanta and Jhana Yoga traditions,
        > and it is said that only 1 seeker in 1,000 will find
        > these concepts ones they are comfortable with. No big
        > deal about him or the way he presents things. It's not
        > a good or bad thing - it's just his way of expressing
        > the inexpressible. I think Papajeff is one of the
        > most eloquent writers around, and in a very different
        > styling, so is Sandeep. If their words don't bring you
        > peace, they are no good for you. If they do, they are.
        > I'm just pleased they both share so freely. As for you,
        > I think you will be amazingly successful when you write
        > your book because you reek of passion and your life
        > has been extra-ordinary. You're for sure "the real deal".
        > Peace and blessings,
        > Bob
        > > --- On Wed, 2/17/10, Sandeep <sandeep1960@> wrote:
        > >
        > > From: Sandeep <sandeep1960@>
        > > Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Cause and Effect and On-line
        > Strategies
        > > To: meditationsocietyof
        > <mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica%40yahoogroups.com>
        > america@yahoogroups.com
        > > Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 12:04 AM
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Â
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Hi Bob,
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > medit8ionsociety wrote:
        > > Â
        > >
        > >
        > > Carl Sagan once said that to really find
        > >
        > > the cause of any effect you have to go back
        > >
        > > to the Big Bang and work from there.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Why even stop at that minor event?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > :-)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Much though it may seem like........ ..there is no linear cause-effect
        > > continuum.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > In a
        > >
        > > universe that's characterized by adjectives
        > >
        > > and adverbs like "Chaos", it's interesting
        > >
        > > that things pop up exactly when they would
        > >
        > > fit in.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Exactly.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Including the arising thought which may of the nature of bewilderment,
        > > anger, agony....... .....as to how can this "pop up" be seen to be a
        > > fit...
        > >
        > > .. from any perspective.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Aka, earthquakes, tsunamis, innocents getting blown apart in the name
        > > of Allah or democracy.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Â
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Right after reading Papajeff and
        > >
        > > Sandeep, both of whom I respect and think
        > >
        > > are wiser than the average bear, I found this
        > >
        > > site that deals with strategies that are used
        > >
        > > in on-line arguments.
        > >
        > > http://www.jerzeede vil.com/forums/ showthread. php?t=70321
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > LOL
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Very good.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Being on the cyber circuit from the early 80s.....have seen all these
        > > variations.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > I hope you enjoy what is shareed there even if it
        > >
        > > doesn't exactly fit with what has been going on
        > >
        > > in these recent posts. In the case of the last few
        > >
        > > posts here, I want to say that when I read Sandeep,
        > >
        > > my mind's chatter often stops and that opens the
        > >
        > > "doors of perception", and since Swami Chidananda's
        > >
        > > recent death, I think Sandeep may be the most conscious
        > >
        > > person in India.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Hey, the geographical spread of that endorsement is too small.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Bob, how do you expect me to expand the business, in face of
        > > competition ?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Be a little more generous, a bit more expansive, will ya!.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Coming back to the subject of effortless effort.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > In fact, every effort is effortless.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Not that reaching an enlightened state makes subsequent efforting as
        > > effortless.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Effortless effort is already the case.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > What would effortfull effort be?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > It would be the enacting of actions, accompanied by a sense of
        > > ownership of the action, which as a package deal comes with the sense
        > > of stake with the unfolding actions.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Doing....... .. with the accompanying halo of "I am the one doing such
        > > and such and I am the one who hopes that such and such will get me, the
        > > other,
        > >
        > > society, community, nation, humanity at large, such and such".
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > The halo is all mentation.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > The presence or absence of the halo of mentation... ......does not in
        > > any way effect the nature or content of the moment, which unfolds
        > > exactly as it did as the moment.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > (A delving would apperceive that even the physical act as the content
        > > of the moment.... is a wiggle in the field of mentation, but let's
        > > leave that for the moment)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > So this state of effortless effort( to use some terms for this
        > > communication) ........can it ever be reached, attained, realized,
        > > achieved?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > What is not-the-case. ......can be made to be the case.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Which obviously needs something to be done by some one.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > What is already the case........ how can it be made to be the case again?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Now, espying these pixels.....thought immediately comes up......
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > "-that's all neo-advaita bullshit, did not such and such (put in any of
        > > your favourite saint sage).....toil for decades, even several past
        > > lifetimes... ........to reach salvation, enlightenment.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > -"When nothing in life, ie.fame, fortune, sex, power can be got without
        > > rowing your boat......how can the biggest mazumma be achieved just by
        > > sitting on your back-side".
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Thought may even construct..
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > "- How can such nonsense be allowed to be espoused when I through such
        > > exacting and arduous rock climbing have reached the pinnacle of
        > > spirituality"
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > "-What would I be left with........ if all that I have done and achieved
        > > in the field of spirituality be debunked.... .
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ....what would I be.....if ......it is all fluff?".
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > In reverse thought may even construct
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > " That is why effort is the very obstruction to realization,
        > > enlightenment and must be totally shunned.
        > >
        > > Â I must hunt down all these doers and negate them on every spiritual
        > > lists on cyber space, as well as all physical satsanghs."
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Both schools of thought..... ....are actually the same.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > What is the difference between believing that something is necessary,
        > > that something is the causal requirement for what-is-already- the-case
        > > to be reached..... ..
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ......and .....
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ..... believing that nothing has to be done........ as the causal
        > > requirement. ..... for what-is-already- the-case to be reached.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > No difference whatsoever.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Which is why......... ...if a specific technique is getting enacted
        > > which is held to be meditation, bhakti-japa, self-enquiry. .......coming
        > > across a spectacle of need, anguish, suffering and getting moved to do
        > > whatever one did in that moment to assuage the spectacle... ...(whether
        > > succeeded or not)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > .......in each of these instances... ......the apperceiving is
        > > that........ ...each of the instance was a natural nuance of the
        > > moment.....an unfolding play of totality as that very specific act of a
        > > multi-act drama......
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > a drama .....which is nothing but a display of what would be it be
        > > like, if for example .....meditation, bhakti-japa, self-enquiry,
        > > empathy.....
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ...was ever possible to be.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Similarly, the absence of any of these facets of
        > > phenomenality. .......are as much .........a natural nuance of the
        > > moment.....as much as acts
        > >
        > > of the same multi-act drama.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Now what is to be pursued, craved, intended, affirmed?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > What is to be shunned, avoided, negated?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > The instance.... ... no matter what it's content..... ..... is not a
        > > means to another instance.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > The instance.... .... no matter what its content..... ... is not an
        > > obstruction to another instance
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > For no instance has a relation with another instance.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Why not?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Because each instance, irrespective of the content of that
        > > instance.... .....is complete in itself.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > There is no pop-up needing to fit into frame.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > The pop-up IS the frame.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > In this light of apperception( again a mere term)....... .....where there
        > > is no surrounding halo of intentions, will, stakes, hopes.....
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > the apperception that ....the halo IS the very unfolding meditation, if
        > > so.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > the apperception that .....the halo IS the very unfolding of empathy,
        > > if so.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > The apperception that....the halo IS the very unfolding absence of any
        > > such activities, if such is the case.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > The apperception that the pervading stillness... .......is not an effect
        > > of what is unfolding... ......... ....whether the unfolding happens in
        > > the dirt of the gutter
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > or in the pristinity of cathedral towers.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > The light of this apperception .........consumes( to use a
        > > term)....... all "other" instances... ...... both the recalled and the
        > > projected.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > The consumption of the recall and the projected ............ .is the
        > > consumption of even this instance.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > And the apperception that the Big Bang ...
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ..a mere infantile wiggle....
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > .....to display what would it be like...... IF...... something could
        > > ever be on display.
        > >
        >
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