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Life Beyond Suffering

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  • Jeff Belyea <jeff@mindgoal.com>
    Those who posture as enlightened, offering noble sounding commentaries of life s suffering, struggles and pain as all there is,find an audience, and as the
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 2, 2003
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      Those who posture as enlightened,
      offering noble sounding commentaries
      of life's suffering, struggles and
      pain as all there is,find an audience,
      and as the pithy wisdom dictates,
      "Birds of a feather flock together."

      They may be, and often are, beautiful,
      caring, moral, ethical, brilliant
      people. But they are stuck in
      negation as the only way.

      They teach by negation, spewing
      ridicule at anyone who refuses
      to be impaled on their thorny
      philosophies - especially one
      who would speak of going beyond
      the suffering to peace of mind
      and an experience of pure
      intuitive consciousness in which
      love is known. And if such a one
      turns to encourage others to
      press on with their search,
      to offer a light along the path,
      well, duck. Their outrage
      is palable.

      A recent nugget from one of those
      who subscribe and force feed (but
      never use the word "teach" here)
      the view that there is nothing
      to find, nothing to seek, was
      "All of your so-called "love"
      is bullshit in disguise."

      I wonder if all of her
      so called "bullshit" is
      love in disguise.

      Ah well, what can a
      guru who has gone through
      the suffering and into
      the light do? Guru! You!

      Write a little poetry?

      Forgiveness

      A ferocious dark memory
      Billows over me without warning
      A scarlet wave of emotion
      Implodes my world
      Drowns what were my dreams
      Brings me to my knees
      The wound oozes life
      As I drift out to sea
      And wash up on
      A shore God forsaken
      Mistaken for a corpse
      Rotten flesh eaters
      Encroach upon my art
      Tear it apart mercilessly
      And fly back to their caves
      Clutching their weak worthless
      Pitifully shallow commentaries
      What others think
      Will not shrink me to a toad
      A fiery radiant angel
      Cuts loose this heavy load
      And forgiveness forgiveness
      Calls me to live again
      And walk a golden road


      All in love,

      Jeff
    • Gregory Goode
      Hi Jeff, Since Judi and I agree on this experience/not-experience point, let me jump in here. The negating that you are pointing to isn t a total negation, or
      Message 2 of 4 , Jan 2, 2003
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        Hi Jeff,

        Since Judi and I agree on this experience/not-experience point, let me jump in here. The negating that you are pointing to isn't a total negation, or is it negation as an all-the-time, 100% posture. It's negating one particular thing that is being affirmed. That affirmation is this, that the nondual endpoint or whatchamacallit is like the following (quoting you here Jeff):

        and an experience of pure
        intuitive consciousness in which
        love is known.

        Now, this experience of pure intuitive consciousness is either made up of one or more experiences, or it isn't. If it *is* made up of experiences, then it's not that much different from a mood. It comes and goes. It is displaced by anger, and deep sleep, and watching TV.

        On the other hand, if it's *not* made up of one or more experiences, then on this point you and Judi and I are in agreement!

        Talk like in that quoted paragraph isn't, after a certain point, to be taken seriously - instead, it's a prompt, a spur, to keep those on the path who are looking to maintain a feeling. At that point, this is all they can see, so it requires talk like this to reach them. What would you say to those who already feel this way, but who are STILL seeking to know the truth??? I've known them, and their predicament is even worse, sticker, more subtle!

        This is verbal, but please don't call it verbal quibbling. It's just common sense, a thing is or it ain't. And please don't think that Judi and I agree on everything! One example of where she and I probably differ: I don't see this understanding or whatchamacallit as anything that is had by anyone at all. No one has it, and no one lacks it. Sometimes, maybe for a punch in the gut, Judi speaks as though it *is* had by some and lacked by others. I try not to speak that way. If it's something that you have, then by golly it is something that you will lose. What I speak of as being in back of you is equally in back of everything.

        I love Judi dearly, I like her style, and I actually see love in 98% of what she writes! If you've ever been in the military, you can see the drill sergeants speaking in the same way. They're yelling at you, swearing at you, and in the old days, even hitting you. But they really care for you as a student, want you to succeed, and would put their lives on the line for you. My style is more like the boring officer in the back room of the big office.

        Love,

        --Greg
      • Jeff Belyea <jeff@mindgoal.com>
        Hello, Greg, Oh Saintly Patient One - The whatchamacallit that I term, for lack of a precise term for something beyond words, an experience of pure intuitive
        Message 3 of 4 , Jan 2, 2003
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          Hello, Greg, Oh Saintly Patient One -

          The whatchamacallit that I term, for lack of a precise term
          for something beyond words, "an experience of pure intuitive
          consciousness" is not a temporary mood or a moment of experience.
          It is a mind-blowing "knowing" in a manner that transcends our
          previously held concepts of how we learn, know and understanding.
          It brings us, creates in us, manifests...as a new perceptual
          condition - beyond any concept or temporal experience.

          It is not within in the framework of a rational process.
          It is a permanent alteration and the end of our previously held
          "I"dentity. It is the death of one life, and the rebirth into
          a new life. This awakening, realizing, transcending, mind-bending
          whatchamacallit is precipitated by a startling experience, but beyond
          experience as we formerly knew experience, and catapults us into a pure
          intuitive consciousness - I struggle to use words for "it".

          It certainly is not something that happens again. Once is for all.
          In some eastern traditions there is a distinction between "moments"
          in meditation or salvikalpa samadhi and the total enlightenment of
          nirvikalpa samadhi, and settlement back into sahaj samadhi, or
          natural enlightenment. I teach that our natural state is a
          naturally enlightened state that some have forgotten as they
          are socialized. A return to this state is a re-awakening, a return
          to a pure love and pure joy as an overriding state of consciousness,
          that allows us to "rise above" life's struggles, while actually
          acquiring a new worldview in which love rules. Life goes on,
          but with a newly acquired enthusiasm and energy. Doesn't mean
          the end of passion and emotion, just the end of the soap opera
          life and its attendant sentimentality.

          So, in the end, at the arrival, I do agree with you, Judi and Jason.
          (I spent considerable time reading the beautifully written
          and honestly revealing expositions on his website several weeks ago.)

          My constant appeal is to not discourage those who feel the
          intuitive stirrings by speaking only of the end point. For many,
          there is a gap to bridge. This standing in the gap is part
          of what a Boddhisattva does. I've alluded to this in earlier posts.
          And I know that you are well indoctrinated in what this about.

          As far as those who are looking to maintain a feeling - they
          have not reached end point or whatchamacallit or epic, a
          natural enlightenment. Once realized, it requires no struggle
          to maintain, anymore than breathing requires conscious effort.
          It is a natural state - once we realize it. If they've settled
          for a shiny dime instead of a pearl of great price, they will
          continue to be unsettled. Here is where timing is critical.

          I, too, ask them to surrender all concepts, all seeking,
          all efforts in order to awaken to their "kingdom within".
          When they hear from a strictly fundamental non-teaching,
          "just go on with your life, there's nothing to realize,
          no separate reality, and so on"...while true at the end
          point, that language leaves many in despair and with no hope.
          Guiding them through this despair with kindness and compassion (part of
          the vow is to remember the pain and emptiness before realization),
          encouraging hope for "a peace that passes all understanding,
          a joy unspeakable" is what an awakened teacher
          (this awakened teacher) offers to do. Of course, the guidance
          is only up to the point of complete surrender. From
          there, it is only up to the seeker and the grace of God.
          I claim no special powers. I only claim to be the
          grateful recipient of whatchamacallit who made a deal
          that Ken Wilbur capsulizes well with, "This truth will
          be revealed to me under the agreement that I will
          communicate it to others (not knowing, before revelation,
          that it cannot be put in words).

          Yes, I did a three-year stint in the Regular Army..
          After basic, there were no more drill sergeants. I was no
          longer a raw recruit. Judi's insistence on treating everyone
          as though they are thick as a brink and raw as a recruit
          without discrimination,if they differ from her stance about
          life as suffering, is where we bang heads. I have held
          classes, satsang, services for the past 27 years, never
          charged money, never took a collection in 7 years as a
          full-time pastor. My income comes from a counseling business
          in the mundane - quit smoking, lose weight, improve your
          golf game, advance your career, speaking engagements,
          books and tapes. To be repeatly called a fraud and a
          con-man peddling bullshit does not rate a 98 percentile
          for Judi or her pandering boys at the ranch from me.
          To be clear, I am not insulted or is my personality
          affronted, nor do I love Judi any less. My objection
          is to the fear, doubt and discourgement that this
          disparagement creates in aspiring and sincere seekers.

          All in love,

          Jeff



          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Gregory Goode <
          goode@d...> wrote:
          > Hi Jeff,
          >
          > Since Judi and I agree on this experience/not-experience point, let me jump in here. The negating that you are pointing to isn't a total negation, or is it negation as an all-the-time, 100% posture. It's negating one particular thing that is being affirmed. That affirmation is this, that the nondual endpoint or whatchamacallit is like the following (quoting you here Jeff):
          >
          > and an experience of pure
          > intuitive consciousness in which
          > love is known.
          >
          > Now, this experience of pure intuitive consciousness is either made up of one or more experiences, or it isn't. If it *is* made up of experiences, then it's not that much different from a mood. It comes and goes. It is displaced by anger, and deep sleep, and watching TV.
          >
          > On the other hand, if it's *not* made up of one or more experiences, then on this point you and Judi and I are in agreement!
          >
          > Talk like in that quoted paragraph isn't, after a certain point, to be taken seriously - instead, it's a prompt, a spur, to keep those on the path who are looking to maintain a feeling. At that point, this is all they can see, so it requires talk like this to reach them. What would you say to those who already feel this way, but who are STILL seeking to know the truth??? I've known them, and their predicament is even worse, sticker, more subtle!
          >
          > This is verbal, but please don't call it verbal quibbling. It's just common sense, a thing is or it ain't. And please don't think that Judi and I agree on everything! One example of where she and I probably differ: I don't see this understanding or whatchamacallit as anything that is had by anyone at all. No one has it, and no one lacks it. Sometimes, maybe for a punch in the gut, Judi speaks as though it *is* had by some and lacked by others. I try not to speak that way. If it's something that you have, then by golly it is something that you will lose. What I speak of as being in back of you is equally in back of everything.
          >
          > I love Judi dearly, I like her style, and I actually see love in 98% of what she writes! If you've ever been in the military, you can see the drill sergeants speaking in the same way. They're yelling at you, swearing at you, and in the old days, even hitting you. But they really care for you as a student, want you to succeed, and would put their lives on the line for you. My style is more like the boring officer in the back room of the big office.
          >
          > Love,
          >
          > --Greg
        • judirhodes <judirhodes@zianet.com>
          ... just common sense, a thing is or it ain t. And please don t think that Judi and I agree on everything! One example of where she and I probably differ: I
          Message 4 of 4 , Jan 2, 2003
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            >
            > This is verbal, but please don't call it verbal quibbling. It's
            just common sense, a thing is or it ain't. And please don't think
            that Judi and I agree on everything! One example of where she and I
            probably differ: I don't see this understanding or whatchamacallit as
            anything that is had by anyone at all. No one has it, and no one
            lacks it. Sometimes, maybe for a punch in the gut, Judi speaks as
            though it *is* had by some and lacked by others.

            ******* Yes, it seems to get their "attention". :-) Go figure? :-)

            Judi
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