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  • Athanor
    About what kind of understanding are you talking here? mirela ... From: Gregory Goode To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ; texasbg2000
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 2, 2003
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      About what kind of understanding are you talking here?
      mirela
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Gregory Goode
      To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ; texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@...>
      Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 7:26 PM
      Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Meditation Society of America Re: THE SAGES VIEW


      On 1/02/03 10:58 am "texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@...>" <Bigbobgraham@...> wrote:
      That is a great example, it cuts through the mud. However it seems
      to me the word understand can mean either an experience or not.

      Hi Bobby,

      You're right, in normal parlance, "understanding" certainly is something experiential. To understand algebra, or home mortgages, or how to drive from Chicago to Detroit is an experiential thing.

      But the kind of understanding we're talking about here is not experiential. If it were, then it would just be a kind of non-dual mumbo-jumbo - a way of looking at things or a way to talk about things. But it's more than that -- and less too. Maybe the event that people point to as "IT HAPPENED RIGHT THEN!!" -- maybe that is experiential. But that's just a point in time - the understanding is not that.

      Of course, where one is evaluating things seeking an end to suffering - then the goal will be conceived of as some kind of experience. It can't be helped. But it also doesn't hurt to be open to the possibility that this understanding is not an experience...

      Love,

      --Greg

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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jason <jfishman2@msn.com>
      How intersting that the post become fervent after the new years, many resovling to find the truth ? Judi continues to make her elegant point so very clear,
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 2, 2003
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        How intersting that the post become fervent after the new years,
        many resovling to find "the truth"?

        Judi continues to make her "elegant" point so very clear, yet all
        dance around the issue of experienced understanding by asking the
        same questions over and over again, what a wonderful game of cat and
        mouse!

        Quite without the mind, understanding is...
        Quite within the mind experience is...

        It's quite simple, touch a hot stove and get burned, learn to not
        touch a hot stove again or forget the lesson and do it all over
        again, that is understanding born of experience.

        True spiritual understanding (insert label of your favorite belief
        here, i.e. God, The Tao, Enlightenment, etc..) comes from nothing
        one will reach from the physical senses, is born of emptyness,
        cannot be found when sought and does not forget, it simple is.

        The one that seeks no understanding, "knows" the way
        The one that seeks understanding, "knows" only the experience

        In other words seek nothing, you'll soon discover something. Need
        nothing and you will have everything you'll ever need.


        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Athanor"
        <athanor@c...> wrote:
        > About what kind of understanding are you talking here?
        > mirela
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Gregory Goode
        > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ; texasbg2000
        <Bigbobgraham@a...>
        > Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 7:26 PM
        > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Meditation Society
        of America Re: THE SAGES VIEW
        >
        >
        > On 1/02/03 10:58 am "texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@a...>"
        <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
        > That is a great example, it cuts through the mud. However it
        seems
        > to me the word understand can mean either an experience or not.
        >
        > Hi Bobby,
        >
        > You're right, in normal parlance, "understanding" certainly is
        something experiential. To understand algebra, or home mortgages,
        or how to drive from Chicago to Detroit is an experiential thing.
        >
        > But the kind of understanding we're talking about here is not
        experiential. If it were, then it would just be a kind of non-dual
        mumbo-jumbo - a way of looking at things or a way to talk about
        things. But it's more than that -- and less too. Maybe the event
        that people point to as "IT HAPPENED RIGHT THEN!!" -- maybe that is
        experiential. But that's just a point in time - the understanding
        is not that.
        >
        > Of course, where one is evaluating things seeking an end to
        suffering - then the goal will be conceived of as some kind of
        experience. It can't be helped. But it also doesn't hurt to be
        open to the possibility that this understanding is not an
        experience...
        >
        > Love,
        >
        > --Greg
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > ADVERTISEMENT
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        Service.
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • judirhodes <judirhodes@zianet.com>
        ... and ... ***** Thank you Jason, obviously a man of understanding. You re more than welcome at the ranch anytime. Largely it s a more mature group of folks,
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 2, 2003
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          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jason
          <jfishman2@m...>" <jfishman2@m...> wrote:
          > How intersting that the post become fervent after the new years,
          > many resovling to find "the truth"?
          >
          > Judi continues to make her "elegant" point so very clear, yet all
          > dance around the issue of experienced understanding by asking the
          > same questions over and over again, what a wonderful game of cat
          and
          > mouse!
          >
          ***** Thank you Jason, obviously a man of understanding. You're more
          than welcome at the ranch anytime. Largely it's a more mature group
          of folks, at the "end of their rope", with spiritual seeking. We got
          some very bright people over there and your input would be much
          appreciated. Always can use another cowhand, much appreciated by me.

          Judi




          > Quite without the mind, understanding is...
          > Quite within the mind experience is...
          >
          > It's quite simple, touch a hot stove and get burned, learn to not
          > touch a hot stove again or forget the lesson and do it all over
          > again, that is understanding born of experience.
          >
          > True spiritual understanding (insert label of your favorite belief
          > here, i.e. God, The Tao, Enlightenment, etc..) comes from nothing
          > one will reach from the physical senses, is born of emptyness,
          > cannot be found when sought and does not forget, it simple is.
          >
          > The one that seeks no understanding, "knows" the way
          > The one that seeks understanding, "knows" only the experience
          >
          > In other words seek nothing, you'll soon discover something. Need
          > nothing and you will have everything you'll ever need.
          >
          >
          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Athanor"
          > <athanor@c...> wrote:
          > > About what kind of understanding are you talking here?
          > > mirela
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: Gregory Goode
          > > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ; texasbg2000
          > <Bigbobgraham@a...>
          > > Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 7:26 PM
          > > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Meditation Society
          > of America Re: THE SAGES VIEW
          > >
          > >
          > > On 1/02/03 10:58 am "texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@a...>"
          > <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
          > > That is a great example, it cuts through the mud. However it
          > seems
          > > to me the word understand can mean either an experience or not.
          > >
          > > Hi Bobby,
          > >
          > > You're right, in normal parlance, "understanding" certainly is
          > something experiential. To understand algebra, or home mortgages,
          > or how to drive from Chicago to Detroit is an experiential thing.
          > >
          > > But the kind of understanding we're talking about here is not
          > experiential. If it were, then it would just be a kind of non-dual
          > mumbo-jumbo - a way of looking at things or a way to talk about
          > things. But it's more than that -- and less too. Maybe the event
          > that people point to as "IT HAPPENED RIGHT THEN!!" -- maybe that is
          > experiential. But that's just a point in time - the understanding
          > is not that.
          > >
          > > Of course, where one is evaluating things seeking an end to
          > suffering - then the goal will be conceived of as some kind of
          > experience. It can't be helped. But it also doesn't hurt to be
          > open to the possibility that this understanding is not an
          > experience...
          > >
          > > Love,
          > >
          > > --Greg
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > > ADVERTISEMENT
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          > Service.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jason <jfishman2@msn.com>
          Aww, shucks... Any ole fool like myself can string words together and make em sound like something!! Honestly though, much appreciation on the invite and maybe
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 2, 2003
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            Aww, shucks... Any ole fool like myself can string words together
            and make em sound like something!!

            Honestly though, much appreciation on the invite and maybe the next
            time something useful pops up in the ball of mush I'll drop on in do
            a lil "hocus pocus" and then make myself dissapear. After all I am a
            great guru, yanno ;) World renowned even!! (chuckle)

            Thank you much and lasting peace my wise friend

            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "judirhodes
            <judirhodes@z...>" <judirhodes@z...> wrote:
            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jason
            > <jfishman2@m...>" <jfishman2@m...> wrote:
            > > How intersting that the post become fervent after the new years,
            > > many resovling to find "the truth"?
            > >
            > > Judi continues to make her "elegant" point so very clear, yet
            all
            > > dance around the issue of experienced understanding by asking
            the
            > > same questions over and over again, what a wonderful game of cat
            > and
            > > mouse!
            > >
            > ***** Thank you Jason, obviously a man of understanding. You're
            more
            > than welcome at the ranch anytime. Largely it's a more mature
            group
            > of folks, at the "end of their rope", with spiritual seeking. We
            got
            > some very bright people over there and your input would be much
            > appreciated. Always can use another cowhand, much appreciated by
            me.
            >
            > Judi
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > > Quite without the mind, understanding is...
            > > Quite within the mind experience is...
            > >
            > > It's quite simple, touch a hot stove and get burned, learn to
            not
            > > touch a hot stove again or forget the lesson and do it all over
            > > again, that is understanding born of experience.
            > >
            > > True spiritual understanding (insert label of your favorite
            belief
            > > here, i.e. God, The Tao, Enlightenment, etc..) comes from
            nothing
            > > one will reach from the physical senses, is born of emptyness,
            > > cannot be found when sought and does not forget, it simple is.
            > >
            > > The one that seeks no understanding, "knows" the way
            > > The one that seeks understanding, "knows" only the experience
            > >
            > > In other words seek nothing, you'll soon discover something.
            Need
            > > nothing and you will have everything you'll ever need.
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Athanor"
            > > <athanor@c...> wrote:
            > > > About what kind of understanding are you talking here?
            > > > mirela
            > > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > From: Gregory Goode
            > > > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ; texasbg2000
            > > <Bigbobgraham@a...>
            > > > Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 7:26 PM
            > > > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Meditation
            Society
            > > of America Re: THE SAGES VIEW
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > On 1/02/03 10:58 am "texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@a...>"
            > > <Bigbobgraham@a...> wrote:
            > > > That is a great example, it cuts through the mud. However
            it
            > > seems
            > > > to me the word understand can mean either an experience or
            not.
            > > >
            > > > Hi Bobby,
            > > >
            > > > You're right, in normal parlance, "understanding" certainly
            is
            > > something experiential. To understand algebra, or home
            mortgages,
            > > or how to drive from Chicago to Detroit is an experiential thing.
            > > >
            > > > But the kind of understanding we're talking about here is
            not
            > > experiential. If it were, then it would just be a kind of non-
            dual
            > > mumbo-jumbo - a way of looking at things or a way to talk about
            > > things. But it's more than that -- and less too. Maybe the
            event
            > > that people point to as "IT HAPPENED RIGHT THEN!!" -- maybe that
            is
            > > experiential. But that's just a point in time - the
            understanding
            > > is not that.
            > > >
            > > > Of course, where one is evaluating things seeking an end to
            > > suffering - then the goal will be conceived of as some kind of
            > > experience. It can't be helped. But it also doesn't hurt to be
            > > open to the possibility that this understanding is not an
            > > experience...
            > > >
            > > > Love,
            > > >
            > > > --Greg
            > > >
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > > > ADVERTISEMENT
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > > meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            > > Service.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Gregory Goode
            Understanding the selflessness of all things, one s own self, and other people and things. Again, it s more like the Santa Claus example than like solving a
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 2, 2003
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              Understanding the selflessness of all things, one's own "self," and other people and things. Again, it's more like the Santa Claus example than like solving a puzzle. After all, I've solved puzzles before, then years later looked at them again and actually FORGOTTEN HOW I'D DONE IT! So what I'm talking about is not that! Wherever you look, it's in back of you.

              This is not to say that no experiential sequences are helpful. There are meditation techniques that are helpful. Judi always talks about taking a serious look at what you're doing. Although it's not experiential, there are experiences that you can have that can help one stop thinking that it IS experiential!

              I have an article here that talks about a step-by-step method (there are others too). It's uncompromising, not for the timid-minded or those looking to feel good. And when done properly, it's downright frightening. But it pierces thru the conditioning that falsely attributes an essential substance to things. Check out this link, called "Another Kind of Self-Inquiry":

              http://www.harshasatsangh.com/Magazine/7fold-f.htm

              Love,

              --Greg

              At 07:56 PM 1/2/03 +0200, Athanor wrote:
              >About what kind of understanding are you talking here?
              >mirela
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Gregory Goode
              > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ; texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@...>
              > Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 7:26 PM
              > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Meditation Society of America Re: THE SAGES VIEW
              >
              >
              > On 1/02/03 10:58 am "texasbg2000 <Bigbobgraham@...>" <Bigbobgraham@...> wrote:
              > That is a great example, it cuts through the mud. However it seems
              > to me the word understand can mean either an experience or not.
              >
              > Hi Bobby,
              >
              > You're right, in normal parlance, "understanding" certainly is something experiential. To understand algebra, or home mortgages, or how to drive from Chicago to Detroit is an experiential thing.
              >
              > But the kind of understanding we're talking about here is not experiential. If it were, then it would just be a kind of non-dual mumbo-jumbo - a way of looking at things or a way to talk about things. But it's more than that -- and less too. Maybe the event that people point to as "IT HAPPENED RIGHT THEN!!" -- maybe that is experiential. But that's just a point in time - the understanding is not that.
              >
              > Of course, where one is evaluating things seeking an end to suffering - then the goal will be conceived of as some kind of experience. It can't be helped. But it also doesn't hurt to be open to the possibility that this understanding is not an experience...
              >
              > Love,
              >
              > --Greg
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > ADVERTISEMENT
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              >
              >
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              >meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • judirhodes <judirhodes@zianet.com>
              ... do ... a ... ******* Thank you sweetheart, will be my pleasure, anytime. Hocus pocus, poof! :-) Judi
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 2, 2003
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                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jason
                <jfishman2@m...>" <jfishman2@m...> wrote:
                > Aww, shucks... Any ole fool like myself can string words together
                > and make em sound like something!!

                ***** It's what I call "knack". :-)

                >
                > Honestly though, much appreciation on the invite and maybe the next
                > time something useful pops up in the ball of mush I'll drop on in
                do
                > a lil "hocus pocus" and then make myself dissapear. After all I am
                a
                > great guru, yanno ;) World renowned even!! (chuckle)
                >
                > Thank you much and lasting peace my wise friend
                >
                ******* Thank you sweetheart, will be my pleasure, anytime.

                Hocus pocus, poof! :-)
                Judi
              • judirhodes <judirhodes@zianet.com>
                ... doing. ******** Bingo! What there is to be realized is NOT some heavenly, wunnerful, blissful experience , that these teachers are hawking with their
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 2, 2003
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                  Greg wrote:
                  > Judi always talks about taking a serious look at what you're
                  doing.

                  ******** Bingo! What there is to be realized is NOT some heavenly,
                  wunnerful, blissful "experience", that these teachers are "hawking"
                  with their "color brochures", but RATHER your own activity of
                  suffering, which is "you", which in essence is all your
                  separate "identity" amounts to.

                  A little poem from Ram Tzu:

                  You clever ones
                  Are beyond the reach
                  Of a paternal God

                  You put your faith
                  In the esoteric
                  To protect it
                  From your cynicism.

                  Now you come
                  Sniffing around Ram Tzu
                  As if he were
                  A bitch in heat.

                  You hope to get
                  Your spiritual rocks off.

                  Ram Tzu knows this...

                  Your orgasm,
                  Your experience of God,
                  (should you be lucky enough to have one)
                  Will not be Enlightenment,
                  But the result of masturbation.
                • judirhodes <judirhodes@zianet.com>
                  ... doing. ******** Bingo! What there is to be realized is NOT some heavenly, wunnerful, blissful experience , that these teachers are hawking with their
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jan 2, 2003
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                    Greg wrote:
                    > Judi always talks about taking a serious look at what you're
                    doing.

                    ******** Bingo! What there is to be realized is NOT some heavenly,
                    wunnerful, blissful "experience", that these teachers are "hawking"
                    with their "color brochures", but RATHER your own activity of
                    suffering, which is "you", which in essence is all your
                    separate "identity" amounts to.

                    A little poem from Ram Tzu:

                    You clever ones
                    Are beyond the reach
                    Of a paternal God

                    You put your faith
                    In the esoteric
                    To protect it
                    From your cynicism.

                    Now you come
                    Sniffing around Ram Tzu
                    As if he were
                    A bitch in heat.

                    You hope to get
                    Your spiritual rocks off.

                    Ram Tzu knows this...

                    Your orgasm,
                    Your experience of God,
                    (should you be lucky enough to have one)
                    Will not be Enlightenment,
                    But the result of masturbation.
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