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The Bhagavad Gita 9

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  • westwindwood2003
    ... battlefield ... a ... he ... archery ... then ... other, ... Lots ... to ... in ... really ... enjoyment ... part ... family ... this ... to ... right ...
    Message 1 of 28 , Apr 6 11:22 AM
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
      <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
      >
      > Chapter I
      > The Bhagavad Gita, which I shall call the Gita hereafter has been
      > called the Bible of India. The setting of the Gita is a
      battlefield
      > where Sri Krishna has promised to help both sides. There are two
      > choices; one side gets the wherewithal of earthly endeavors while
      > Krishna offers to place his unarmed self on the other side. Arjuna
      > is first and chooses Krishna, and Duryodhana is relieved because he
      > gets all the resources of the world. So, the armies gather on the
      > field where previous religious sacrifices have made the battlefield
      a
      > spiritual place. When Duryodhana sees the army Arjuna is part of,
      he
      > notes strong warriors, but states he also has the same on his side
      > and so states to his preceptor, a Brahman who has also taught
      archery
      > to some of those in the army associated with Arjuna. Duryodhana
      then
      > goes on to brag about how huge his army is and how meager the
      other,
      > but uses words that can also mean huge and disorganized, thrown
      > together willy-nilly, compared to compact and well disciplined.
      Lots
      > of horn blowing commences on both sides, then Arjuna asks Krishna
      to
      > place the war chariot between the armies so that he can have a look
      > at the enemy and then sees relatives on both sides. Arjuna falters
      in
      > his resolution to fight. The Gita is allegorical so Arjuna is
      really
      > faced with going for the spiritual approach to life and he has to
      > decide. The spiritual against the human condition with its
      enjoyment
      > and pleasures and all his relatives in the army of Duryodhana as
      part
      > of that human condition is the choice. Arjuna thinks it would be a
      > sin to slay these miscreants, but the next few verses go on to say
      > how nasty these folks really are and how impiety would corrupt
      family
      > life if they were allowed to win. Overwhelmed with sorrow for the
      > coming fight, Arjuna puts down his weapons.
      >
      > Chapter II
      > Arjuna is overcome with compassion, distress and tears; and needs
      > help. The Lord now speaks for the first time in the Gita and at
      this
      > point the real Gita proper is initiated with a statement of the
      > fundamental message: Arjuna, do not be without strength and yield
      to
      > weakness of the heart. Stand up oh scorcher of foes. So Arjuna
      says:
      > Lord who is slayer of foes, how can I attack the people in the
      > opposition who are worthy of worship, one who is verily the
      > embodiment of chastity and self denial, and the other a man of
      right
      > conduct who was my teacher? Wealth and desires of this world would
      > be tainted with blood. Which is best I do not know, they
      conquering
      > us or we them. After slaying them we should not care to live.
      With
      > nature overpowered by taint of pity, with mind in confusion about
      > duty, decisively say what I should do as I am your disciple and You
      > my refuge. This is significant because before this Arjuna was
      > concerned about pleasant things, learning, wealth, culture, wives,
      > progeny, kingdom. Now, he has reoriented to want what is good and
      > this is a prerequisite for enlightenment. Arjuna says: Nothing I
      see
      > would remove grief that dries up my senses, even if I have the most
      > prosperous kingdom and dominion over the celestials.
      >
      > Now a minister to the king whose army is fighting against the army
      > Arjuna is in has the temporary ability to tell all of the foregoing
      > to the king even though remote from the battlefield. The minister
      now
      > goes on to describe Arjuna as not wanting to fight; however, Arjuna
      > is one who can control the need for sleep, and this signifies he
      has
      > some level of attainment with matters of meditation, and therefore
      he
      > is bound to make the correct choice. Arjuna is unlikely to call
      off
      > the war although the king wishes he would do so.
      >
      > Hrishikesa (Krishna) smiles and now speaks the words to the
      > despondent one between the two armies.
      >
      > Those who should not be grieved for, you have grieved for, although
      > you have words of wisdom. For the dead, the living, the wise
      grieve
      > not. Here Arjuna does not possess the first characteristic of a
      > Yogi, the integration of thought, speech and action and he is
      warned
      > about loosing yoga. Bodies come and go, but the Atman exists both
      > past and future. The soul in this body experiences childhood, youth
      > and old age, then moves to another body. The enlightened know this
      > and death is OK.
      >
      > (Chapter II to be continued later)
      >
    • westwindwood2003
      A little background first. Prakriti or the phenomenal universe is delineated in the Vedic teaching. The Vedas identify the phenomenal universe so completely
      Message 2 of 28 , Jun 3, 2008
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        A little background first. Prakriti or the phenomenal universe is
        delineated in the Vedic teaching. The Vedas identify the phenomenal
        universe so completely that the phenomenal and Vedas are considered
        the same essence. The three Gunas are Sattva, Rajas and Tamas and
        constitute the Vedas. Sattva is an illumination shining forth from
        the individual through knowledge, Rajas characteristics are greed and
        selfish activities and Tamas inactivity, delusion, recklessness and
        darkness. The three Gunas compete with each other, create unbalance,
        and cause the propagation of the phenomenal universe.

        What does one then do? The Key is Yoga. In other words, do your
        meditation, offer up the work that is yours, perform the prescribed
        duty revealed to you and do not desire results one way or the other,
        just do the requested action found in meditation. In this way you
        will not be a producer of karma. The Gita states:

        45. Deal with the three attributes, the Vedas. Be without these three
        attributes Oh Arjuna, free from the pairs of opposites, ever remaining
        in the Sattva (goodness) free from (the thought of) material
        acquisition and preservation, established in the self.


        46. In this work, the only right thing for you is not desire the
        fruits of your effort. Also at any time, do not let this not wanting
        fruits of action be the motive because in not having your attachment
        you would let there be an inaction.

        Yoga eventually takes a person beyond the three Gunas so that even
        Sattva eventually fades as all is worked out.

        48. Steadfast in yoga, perform attachment abandonment, Oh Dhananjaya,
        in success and failure be the same as yoga is called having an
        evenness of mind.

        However, this can only be attained by meditation. It is not attained
        by act of willpower as the goings on are the doings of the Lord
        speaking within and the one who meditates is in the position of a
        willing servant. Just do it.
      • westwindwood2003
        49. Action not directed by yoga is by far most inferior. Oh Dhananjaya, the self-seekers, those taking advantage of opportunities without regard for the
        Message 3 of 28 , Jun 5, 2008
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          49. Action not directed by yoga is by far most
          inferior. Oh Dhananjaya, the self-seekers,
          those taking advantage of opportunities without
          regard for the consequences, have a wretched
          existence.

          The unaware person lives their life seeking
          pleasure, trying to get head. Perhaps something
          happens, some calamity or maybe it is just a
          realization that life is not right. There is
          religion to turn to, religious works and teachers.
          Ultimately though, there is the complete giving
          over to God, a total offering up of what one is
          striving for spiritually and seeking guidance in
          deep meditation, a discovery through yoga of
          the path to resolution of it all.

          50. With meditation comes a calmness of mind,
          tranquility. Also, there is wisdom that comes
          showing the actions, the feelings even, that
          needs to be acted upon to grow. There is
          perfection in this life following this path.
          Devote yourself to yoga. Good and evil deeds,
          how do I know which is which? Pursuing
          either should eventually cease. But, it will take
          decades to evolve through it all because it is
          hard to change ones personality.

          Intellectually we have a feeling for what is
          right and wrong, but this is action not directed
          by yoga and is inferior. For instance, I may
          help someone and that seems right to me;
          however, I might be keeping that person from
          discovering the path because they may not
          realize life needs working on. If I do not help
          them when I easily can do so, that might seem
          wrong. The answer to the proper action is
          revealed in meditation.

          51. The wise, those who meditate, let go of the
          desire, lets answers come when no ego
          intervenes, discerns proper action and go
          beyond evil, eventually evolving into the nature
          that frees them from being bound to birthing
          again.
        • westwindwood2003
          What happens to a yogi? These are active and passive. The following is passive because it just happens without effort. 51. When understanding from your
          Message 4 of 28 , Jun 6, 2008
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            What happens to a yogi? These are active
            and passive. The following is passive
            because it just happens without effort.

            51. When understanding from your practice
            comes, intellectual delusion is bypassed.
            You are indifferent to what others said in the
            past and what you shall hear in the future.

            This just happens automatically because of
            the immediate (in this very instant)
            Guidance. That Guidance is all there is; the
            intellect is inactive.

            52. Your intellect analyzes what others say
            and you can be confused by the many
            options. The yogi; however, can stand
            immovable in the Self with steady
            understanding of the course of action
            needed.
          • medit8ionsociety
            ... Yo Westwindwood, This and the previous Gita posting are, as usual, very great pointings. I like the term Guidance (with the capital G) as we often see
            Message 5 of 28 , Jun 7, 2008
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              "westwindwood2003" <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
              >
              > What happens to a yogi? These are active
              > and passive. The following is passive
              > because it just happens without effort.
              >
              > 51. When understanding from your practice
              > comes, intellectual delusion is bypassed.
              > You are indifferent to what others said in the
              > past and what you shall hear in the future.
              >
              > This just happens automatically because of
              > the immediate (in this very instant)
              > Guidance. That Guidance is all there is; the
              > intellect is inactive.
              >
              > 52. Your intellect analyzes what others say
              > and you can be confused by the many
              > options. The yogi; however, can stand
              > immovable in the Self with steady
              > understanding of the course of action
              > needed.
              >
              Yo Westwindwood,
              This and the previous Gita posting are,
              as usual, very great pointings. I like
              the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
              we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
              with the term Guidance we also get the
              concept that a definitive understanding
              takes place that transcends the mind's usual
              "it could be like this, or it could be
              like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
              will be done" reality to take us over (and
              inner) and we then automatically let events
              of our life proceed as they may without
              any inner chattering that commonly brings
              us negativity (takes our peace away). And
              of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
              whatever masks cover this true identity.
              So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
              Thanks again for sharing.
              Peace and blessings,
              Bob
            • westwindwood2003
              I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little getting used to and
              Message 6 of 28 , Jun 7, 2008
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                I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for
                word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little
                getting used to and sometimes the English words that are chosen by the
                author have several definitions and the author sometime uses the more
                obscure definition, so I find I have to use a dictionary some to get
                the real meaning. What I then do is try and relate that word for word
                English translation to my own meditation experience so that I can
                express that translation in a way that is more understandable I hope.
                What I find wonderful about the Gita is here are these words that in
                a condensed kind of way outlines the spiritual experience, like
                lecture notes that a teacher can expand on. Since I meditate myself,
                I feel that I can do the subject some justice, but I sometimes wonder
                if there might be better words than the ones I use.
                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety .

                > Yo Westwindwood,
                > This and the previous Gita posting are,
                > as usual, very great pointings. I like
                > the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
                > we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
                > with the term Guidance we also get the
                > concept that a definitive understanding
                > takes place that transcends the mind's usual
                > "it could be like this, or it could be
                > like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
                > will be done" reality to take us over (and
                > inner) and we then automatically let events
                > of our life proceed as they may without
                > any inner chattering that commonly brings
                > us negativity (takes our peace away). And
                > of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
                > whatever masks cover this true identity.
                > So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
                > Thanks again for sharing.
                > Peace and blessings,
                > Bob
                >
              • suman sk
                Thanks for continued posting on the wisdom of Geeta. I read it everyday and find a wonderful insight into the true learning. It is a science in itself but only
                Message 7 of 28 , Jun 8, 2008
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                  Thanks for continued posting on the wisdom of Geeta.

                  I read it everyday and find a wonderful insight into the true learning.

                  It is a science in itself but only for the beleiver.

                  Om and God bless all of us

                   

                  Surendra K



                  --- On Sat, 6/7/08, westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:

                  From: westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@...>
                  Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Bhagavad Gita 12
                  To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Saturday, June 7, 2008, 11:53 PM

                  I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for
                  word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little
                  getting used to and sometimes the English words that are chosen by the
                  author have several definitions and the author sometime uses the more
                  obscure definition, so I find I have to use a dictionary some to get
                  the real meaning. What I then do is try and relate that word for word
                  English translation to my own meditation experience so that I can
                  express that translation in a way that is more understandable I hope.
                  What I find wonderful about the Gita is here are these words that in
                  a condensed kind of way outlines the spiritual experience, like
                  lecture notes that a teacher can expand on. Since I meditate myself,
                  I feel that I can do the subject some justice, but I sometimes wonder
                  if there might be better words than the ones I use.
                  --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety .

                  > Yo Westwindwood,
                  > This and the previous Gita posting are,
                  > as usual, very great pointings. I like
                  > the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
                  > we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
                  > with the term Guidance we also get the
                  > concept that a definitive understanding
                  > takes place that transcends the mind's usual
                  > "it could be like this, or it could be
                  > like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
                  > will be done" reality to take us over (and
                  > inner) and we then automatically let events
                  > of our life proceed as they may without
                  > any inner chattering that commonly brings
                  > us negativity (takes our peace away). And
                  > of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
                  > whatever masks cover this true identity.
                  > So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
                  > Thanks again for sharing.
                  > Peace and blessings,
                  > Bob
                  >


                • WestWindWood
                  54. Arjuna asks a question about the qualities (steady of disposition, consistent in vision) of a sage, (who has merged with the Creator, the nature of that
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jun 9, 2008
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                    54. Arjuna asks a question about the
                    qualities (steady of disposition,
                    consistent in vision) of a sage, (who
                    has merged with the Creator, the
                    nature of that which underlies all
                    existence). 

                    The sage, merged into the Creator
                    beyond the normal conscious state,
                    we could say in deep meditation,
                    experiences the qualities of the
                    Creator.  The sage has, over may
                    years of evolution, taken these
                    experiences and incorporated in him,
                    through proper action and behavior,
                    the qualities of the Creator so that
                    the sage became Self. 

                    This seems like A LOT OF HARD
                    WORK! But in reality, it is just a
                    giving up of all those qualities of
                    personality that are not of the divine
                    nature.  It seems an agony at the
                    time, but is nothing looking back,
                    and why was that I clung to so
                    important anyway, but it was.


                    55. Sri Bhagavan (Krishna) said:
                    All desires of the mind (of ones very
                    heart) are cast off, Oh Partha, by
                    becoming the Self by working with
                    the Self in steady wisdom.

                    Contact with the Self in meditation
                    brings a steady wisdom, Oh what to
                    do about my present situation and
                    how am I going to work this out,
                    God's will be done, and so it goes
                    with an answer coming to me so that
                    I become more the Self by practicing
                    proper behavior and letting the Self
                    emerge in place of the misguided
                    personality that I have begun with.



                    56. The mind is unshaken in
                    adversity, and in pleasure, there is no
                    latching onto and wanting to retain. 
                    Free from attachment, fear and anger
                    is the sage poised in wisdom.

                    The wisdom found in meditation
                    allows the sage these characteristics. 
                    This is just something that happens,
                    a symptom, not something that the
                    sage tries to grasp and become, it just
                    happens because one meditates.


                  • aideenmck
                    Belated thanks for these posts helping us to understand the Bhagavad Gita, about which I was almost totally ignorant. Recently, I ve been reading Ram Dass s
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jun 11, 2008
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                      Belated thanks for these posts helping us to understand the Bhagavad
                      Gita, about which I was almost totally ignorant. Recently, I've been
                      reading Ram Dass's "Paths to God: Living the Bhagavad Gita" - it,
                      too, is a revelation. Also reading Rumi's poetry, the Coleman Barks
                      translation. And meeting Theravadin monks, listening to their dharma
                      talks. Sometimes I feel as if I'm perceiving everything for the
                      first time. (Where have I been?)
                      Aideen

                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, WestWindWood
                      <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > 54. Arjuna asks a question about the
                      > qualities (steady of disposition,
                      > consistent in vision) of a sage, (who
                      > has merged with the Creator, the
                      > nature of that which underlies all
                      > existence).
                      >
                      > The sage, merged into the Creator
                      > beyond the normal conscious state,
                      > we could say in deep meditation,
                      > experiences the qualities of the
                      > Creator. The sage has, over may
                      > years of evolution, taken these
                      > experiences and incorporated in him,
                      > through proper action and behavior,
                      > the qualities of the Creator so that
                      > the sage became Self.
                      >
                      > This seems like A LOT OF HARD
                      > WORK! But in reality, it is just a
                      > giving up of all those qualities of
                      > personality that are not of the divine
                      > nature. It seems an agony at the
                      > time, but is nothing looking back,
                      > and why was that I clung to so
                      > important anyway, but it was.
                      >
                      >
                      > 55. Sri Bhagavan (Krishna) said:
                      > All desires of the mind (of ones very
                      > heart) are cast off, Oh Partha, by
                      > becoming the Self by working with
                      > the Self in steady wisdom.
                      >
                      > Contact with the Self in meditation
                      > brings a steady wisdom, Oh what to
                      > do about my present situation and
                      > how am I going to work this out,
                      > God's will be done, and so it goes
                      > with an answer coming to me so that
                      > I become more the Self by practicing
                      > proper behavior and letting the Self
                      > emerge in place of the misguided
                      > personality that I have begun with.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > 56. The mind is unshaken in
                      > adversity, and in pleasure, there is no
                      > latching onto and wanting to retain.
                      > Free from attachment, fear and anger
                      > is the sage poised in wisdom.
                      >
                      > The wisdom found in meditation
                      > allows the sage these characteristics.
                      > This is just something that happens,
                      > a symptom, not something that the
                      > sage tries to grasp and become, it just
                      > happens because one meditates.
                      >
                    • westwindwood2003
                      I do not know Sanskrit and so I know that I am not going to always get a translation correct. If I do make a mistake, I do not feel that I am causing any harm
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jun 14, 2008
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                        I do not know Sanskrit and so I know
                        that I am not going to always get a
                        translation correct. If I do make a
                        mistake, I do not feel that I am
                        causing any harm because I just wind
                        up commenting on a different aspect
                        of meditation than what the Gita is
                        referring to at that point. However,
                        if I do get it wrong on a particular
                        passage, I would like to hear about it
                        if someone knows I am wrong
                        because I might miss some facet of
                        meditation that I might not touch on
                        later that is important.

                        57. Life's many experiences evoke
                        thoughts and feelings. However,
                        rejoicing in the good and hatred of
                        the bad is not in the personality of
                        the person who dwells, resides, in
                        Wisdom.

                        Being with that Wisdom, the one on
                        the path feels the situation is not
                        defined as good or bad, but God's
                        will, and so petitions for the
                        Knowledge of right behavior to deal
                        wisely in the circumstance.

                        58. A tortoise withdraws head and
                        limbs when disturbed, and a Yogi,
                        when confronted with an attractive
                        sight or painful scene reflexively
                        pulls in to contemplate the situation
                        knowing a moment's reflection
                        brings Wisdom.

                        59. Seeing an object of desire, a
                        person remains abstinent upon
                        leaving the longing behind. Even a
                        hint of the desirable reaction drops
                        away from the person who perceives
                        the Supreme.
                      • westwindwood2003
                        60. The wise person strives for perfection; turbulent situations though, the chaos of the day, violently carries away the mind. OK, so don t hesitate to
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jun 18, 2008
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                          60. The wise person strives for
                          perfection; turbulent situations
                          though, the chaos of the day,
                          violently carries away the mind.

                          OK, so don't hesitate to meditate!

                          61. The yogi controls the chaos of
                          the day, these thoughts restrained
                          and joined together. Focus on God
                          and the yogi's thoughts are settled.

                          The turbulent thoughts of the yogi
                          are allowed to surface in meditation,
                          and the calming effect of the
                          meditation experience affects a
                          change in the mind (this just happens
                          without any attempt at control). With
                          the calming, the focus can them be
                          brought to God, who then brings
                          wisdom allowing the thoughts to be
                          settled.

                          62. Objects of the senses, (what
                          causes the turbulent thoughts of a
                          person) cause strong attachment
                          because a person has the propensity
                          for that particular object of the
                          senses. From this attachment comes
                          desire and from desire a kind of
                          anger, of that is mine,
                          possessiveness.

                          Attachment caused by their own
                          personality, or perhaps we could say
                          from their previous karma gives
                          material to work on in meditation.

                          63. From anger comes delusion and
                          from this delusion comes a forgetting
                          of facts (memory of what really
                          happened or how things are), and
                          this loss of reason with impetuous
                          behavior, results in death.

                          Why am I thinking of a motorcycle
                          going 110 mph on a windy country
                          road? Actually, this could be most
                          anything and usually results in a visit
                          from a police officer, or at best
                          recognition of out of control feelings
                          that need to be worked on in
                          meditation.
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