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Re: [Meditation Society of America] The Bhagavad Gita 7

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  • sean tremblay
    to bad that idea didn t make to the guys with the ammonium nitrate. I do realize that the most violent segments of any religion realy are a minority. Was it
    Message 1 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
      to bad that idea didn't make to the guys with the
      ammonium nitrate.
      I do realize that the most violent segments of any
      religion realy are a minority. Was it Socrates who
      said there have always coexisted two religions one for
      the masses and one for the initiate? any way it was
      one of the great greeks
      --- Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:

      > The Islamic concept of jihad
      > is understood in a similarly
      > bifurcated way -- Muslim
      > moderates tend to see it as
      > referring to an inner
      > struggle toward understanding
      > and righteousness, while
      > various fundy factions
      > interpret it literally as war
      > against "infidels" on behalf
      > of Islam itself.
      >
      >
      > sean tremblay wrote:
      > > yep, I understand it both ways
      > > --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >> Sean -
      > >>
      > >> Krisna's advice to Arjuna is
      > >> in the context of consciousness.
      > >> The battleground is the mind
      > >> and the concepts that the illusory
      > >> and secondary identity (ego)
      > >> finds so precious.
      > >>
      > >> Enlightenment - in one aspect, the
      > >> victory over ego attachments - reveals
      > >> a primary identity that has absolute
      > >> clarity and no unanswered questions
      > >> ...nothing to resolve...perfect peace
      > >> of mind and utter tranquility.
      > >>
      > >> Jeff
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> --- In
      > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
      > >> sean tremblay
      > >> <bethjams9@...> wrote:
      > >>
      > >>> And has been the rallying battle cry of all
      > >>>
      > >> commanders
      > >>
      > >>> to the troops of all nations who make war!
      > >>> In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a
      > military
      > >>> sense, this is something I myself have struggled
      > >>>
      > >> with.
      > >>
      > >>> I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma
      > is
      > >>>
      > >> to
      > >>
      > >>> explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
      > >>> insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
      > >>> soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
      > >>> anarchist at heart with a didain for authority
      > and
      > >>>
      > >> a
      > >>
      > >>> dislike of possesing authority over others
      > yet....
      > >>>
      > >> I
      > >>
      > >>> find the military in some form or other keeps
      > >>>
      > >> creeping
      > >>
      > >>> it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I
      > must
      > >>> break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
      > >>> --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>> Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
      > >>>>
      > >>>> westwindwood2003 wrote:
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
      > >>>>> 31. One is born into the class of people that
      > >>>>>
      > >>>> fight for
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
      > >>>>>
      > >>>> duty, so look at not
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> to waver.
      > >>>>> 32. It has happened at this time that the gift
      > >>>>>
      > >> of
      > >>
      > >>>> enlightenment is
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go
      > >>>>>
      > >> into
      > >>
      > >>>> this battle.
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare
      > >>>>>
      > >> that
      > >>
      > >>>> is you fame, your
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
      > >>>>> 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
      > >>>>>
      > >>>> honored and this
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>> 35. Other warriors who have experienced
      > >>>>>
      > >>>> enlightenment and currently
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
      > >>>>>
      > >>>> light weigh for
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>> 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
      > >>>>>
      > >>>> will say your enemies
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> will criticize your petty power. What could
      > >>>>>
      > >> be
      > >>
      > >>>> more painful than
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> this?
      > >>>>> 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious
      > >>>>>
      > >> you
      > >>
      > >>>> will enjoy the
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to
      > >>>>>
      > >> fight.
      > >>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>
      >
      >


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
      Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
      http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
    • westwindwood2003
      38. Engage yourself in this battle where pain and pleasure, gain and loss, victory and defeat matter not. You incur no sin because all these pairs are
      Message 2 of 28 , Mar 30, 2008
        38. Engage yourself in this battle where pain and pleasure, gain and
        loss, victory and defeat matter not. You incur no sin because all
        these pairs are released (let go of) in this battle for wisdom (right
        behavior).

        When you experience enlightenment, knowledge of how you should
        conduct your affairs is presented to you in meditation; you offer up
        the positive and negative feelings that have surfaced in meditation
        and ask for guidance. Your desire for a particular outcome is
        totally let go of and the insight of how you should proceed is given
        to you.

        39. Listen up Arjuna; taking up the yoke of Yoga means absolutely
        adhering to the Wisdom the yoga presents to you, and in doing so, the
        bondage of karma shall be removed.

        You will follow a wisdom not found in your own personality, something
        much better than your nature, and you will be changed for the better.

        40. In this most feeble of efforts there is no production of
        unfortunate results, even with uneven application, this duty protects
        against great fear.

        It has been a while since I started meditation, but I remember.
        Meditation was such a feeble tentative effort because of my karma, my
        condition. However, I was urged to continue by a wise person, and a
        tiny start was all it took; it was a beginning with good results. I
        did have great fear because I was so out of my comfort zone; having
        what I thought was control of my destiny (hah, what an illusion that
        is with all the self induced pain). So I worked on cultivating the
        relationship (I was uneven in the application because I LIKED the
        familiarity of my nature) with that Wisdom I had found, and with the
        procedure of doing meditation came calmness, the determination to do
        the right thing in giving up my karmic tendencies because life was
        better that way. The fear left soon on, but the propensities still
        persisted for many years and required much work.

        41. One pointed determination is the destiny of Arjuna (Oh the joy of
        the Kurus is he) because there is always a single answer for any
        specific problem. There is but one decision for a problem since he
        has taken to the spiritual battlefield. The mind not centered on the
        spiritual has much recourse, and multiple choices to resolve, but
        nothing becomes fixed as a solution.

        The wisdom in meditation is always consistent (you present the same
        problem again, and you get the same answer again), the answer hurts
        no one, and is really hard to do the new behavior to change the
        personality (and work out karma). The intellectual mind thinks of
        many solutions to a problem, which to choose? The emotional mind can
        be in chaos with all the feelings that surface, but the feelings come
        to one point with enough meditation, and then come the offering up of
        the issue to receive the wisdom on how to proceed.
      • westwindwood2003
        ... battlefield ... a ... he ... archery ... then ... other, ... Lots ... to ... in ... really ... enjoyment ... part ... family ... this ... to ... right ...
        Message 3 of 28 , Apr 6, 2008
          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
          <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
          >
          > Chapter I
          > The Bhagavad Gita, which I shall call the Gita hereafter has been
          > called the Bible of India. The setting of the Gita is a
          battlefield
          > where Sri Krishna has promised to help both sides. There are two
          > choices; one side gets the wherewithal of earthly endeavors while
          > Krishna offers to place his unarmed self on the other side. Arjuna
          > is first and chooses Krishna, and Duryodhana is relieved because he
          > gets all the resources of the world. So, the armies gather on the
          > field where previous religious sacrifices have made the battlefield
          a
          > spiritual place. When Duryodhana sees the army Arjuna is part of,
          he
          > notes strong warriors, but states he also has the same on his side
          > and so states to his preceptor, a Brahman who has also taught
          archery
          > to some of those in the army associated with Arjuna. Duryodhana
          then
          > goes on to brag about how huge his army is and how meager the
          other,
          > but uses words that can also mean huge and disorganized, thrown
          > together willy-nilly, compared to compact and well disciplined.
          Lots
          > of horn blowing commences on both sides, then Arjuna asks Krishna
          to
          > place the war chariot between the armies so that he can have a look
          > at the enemy and then sees relatives on both sides. Arjuna falters
          in
          > his resolution to fight. The Gita is allegorical so Arjuna is
          really
          > faced with going for the spiritual approach to life and he has to
          > decide. The spiritual against the human condition with its
          enjoyment
          > and pleasures and all his relatives in the army of Duryodhana as
          part
          > of that human condition is the choice. Arjuna thinks it would be a
          > sin to slay these miscreants, but the next few verses go on to say
          > how nasty these folks really are and how impiety would corrupt
          family
          > life if they were allowed to win. Overwhelmed with sorrow for the
          > coming fight, Arjuna puts down his weapons.
          >
          > Chapter II
          > Arjuna is overcome with compassion, distress and tears; and needs
          > help. The Lord now speaks for the first time in the Gita and at
          this
          > point the real Gita proper is initiated with a statement of the
          > fundamental message: Arjuna, do not be without strength and yield
          to
          > weakness of the heart. Stand up oh scorcher of foes. So Arjuna
          says:
          > Lord who is slayer of foes, how can I attack the people in the
          > opposition who are worthy of worship, one who is verily the
          > embodiment of chastity and self denial, and the other a man of
          right
          > conduct who was my teacher? Wealth and desires of this world would
          > be tainted with blood. Which is best I do not know, they
          conquering
          > us or we them. After slaying them we should not care to live.
          With
          > nature overpowered by taint of pity, with mind in confusion about
          > duty, decisively say what I should do as I am your disciple and You
          > my refuge. This is significant because before this Arjuna was
          > concerned about pleasant things, learning, wealth, culture, wives,
          > progeny, kingdom. Now, he has reoriented to want what is good and
          > this is a prerequisite for enlightenment. Arjuna says: Nothing I
          see
          > would remove grief that dries up my senses, even if I have the most
          > prosperous kingdom and dominion over the celestials.
          >
          > Now a minister to the king whose army is fighting against the army
          > Arjuna is in has the temporary ability to tell all of the foregoing
          > to the king even though remote from the battlefield. The minister
          now
          > goes on to describe Arjuna as not wanting to fight; however, Arjuna
          > is one who can control the need for sleep, and this signifies he
          has
          > some level of attainment with matters of meditation, and therefore
          he
          > is bound to make the correct choice. Arjuna is unlikely to call
          off
          > the war although the king wishes he would do so.
          >
          > Hrishikesa (Krishna) smiles and now speaks the words to the
          > despondent one between the two armies.
          >
          > Those who should not be grieved for, you have grieved for, although
          > you have words of wisdom. For the dead, the living, the wise
          grieve
          > not. Here Arjuna does not possess the first characteristic of a
          > Yogi, the integration of thought, speech and action and he is
          warned
          > about loosing yoga. Bodies come and go, but the Atman exists both
          > past and future. The soul in this body experiences childhood, youth
          > and old age, then moves to another body. The enlightened know this
          > and death is OK.
          >
          > (Chapter II to be continued later)
          >
        • westwindwood2003
          A little background first. Prakriti or the phenomenal universe is delineated in the Vedic teaching. The Vedas identify the phenomenal universe so completely
          Message 4 of 28 , Jun 3, 2008
            A little background first. Prakriti or the phenomenal universe is
            delineated in the Vedic teaching. The Vedas identify the phenomenal
            universe so completely that the phenomenal and Vedas are considered
            the same essence. The three Gunas are Sattva, Rajas and Tamas and
            constitute the Vedas. Sattva is an illumination shining forth from
            the individual through knowledge, Rajas characteristics are greed and
            selfish activities and Tamas inactivity, delusion, recklessness and
            darkness. The three Gunas compete with each other, create unbalance,
            and cause the propagation of the phenomenal universe.

            What does one then do? The Key is Yoga. In other words, do your
            meditation, offer up the work that is yours, perform the prescribed
            duty revealed to you and do not desire results one way or the other,
            just do the requested action found in meditation. In this way you
            will not be a producer of karma. The Gita states:

            45. Deal with the three attributes, the Vedas. Be without these three
            attributes Oh Arjuna, free from the pairs of opposites, ever remaining
            in the Sattva (goodness) free from (the thought of) material
            acquisition and preservation, established in the self.


            46. In this work, the only right thing for you is not desire the
            fruits of your effort. Also at any time, do not let this not wanting
            fruits of action be the motive because in not having your attachment
            you would let there be an inaction.

            Yoga eventually takes a person beyond the three Gunas so that even
            Sattva eventually fades as all is worked out.

            48. Steadfast in yoga, perform attachment abandonment, Oh Dhananjaya,
            in success and failure be the same as yoga is called having an
            evenness of mind.

            However, this can only be attained by meditation. It is not attained
            by act of willpower as the goings on are the doings of the Lord
            speaking within and the one who meditates is in the position of a
            willing servant. Just do it.
          • westwindwood2003
            49. Action not directed by yoga is by far most inferior. Oh Dhananjaya, the self-seekers, those taking advantage of opportunities without regard for the
            Message 5 of 28 , Jun 5, 2008
              49. Action not directed by yoga is by far most
              inferior. Oh Dhananjaya, the self-seekers,
              those taking advantage of opportunities without
              regard for the consequences, have a wretched
              existence.

              The unaware person lives their life seeking
              pleasure, trying to get head. Perhaps something
              happens, some calamity or maybe it is just a
              realization that life is not right. There is
              religion to turn to, religious works and teachers.
              Ultimately though, there is the complete giving
              over to God, a total offering up of what one is
              striving for spiritually and seeking guidance in
              deep meditation, a discovery through yoga of
              the path to resolution of it all.

              50. With meditation comes a calmness of mind,
              tranquility. Also, there is wisdom that comes
              showing the actions, the feelings even, that
              needs to be acted upon to grow. There is
              perfection in this life following this path.
              Devote yourself to yoga. Good and evil deeds,
              how do I know which is which? Pursuing
              either should eventually cease. But, it will take
              decades to evolve through it all because it is
              hard to change ones personality.

              Intellectually we have a feeling for what is
              right and wrong, but this is action not directed
              by yoga and is inferior. For instance, I may
              help someone and that seems right to me;
              however, I might be keeping that person from
              discovering the path because they may not
              realize life needs working on. If I do not help
              them when I easily can do so, that might seem
              wrong. The answer to the proper action is
              revealed in meditation.

              51. The wise, those who meditate, let go of the
              desire, lets answers come when no ego
              intervenes, discerns proper action and go
              beyond evil, eventually evolving into the nature
              that frees them from being bound to birthing
              again.
            • westwindwood2003
              What happens to a yogi? These are active and passive. The following is passive because it just happens without effort. 51. When understanding from your
              Message 6 of 28 , Jun 6, 2008
                What happens to a yogi? These are active
                and passive. The following is passive
                because it just happens without effort.

                51. When understanding from your practice
                comes, intellectual delusion is bypassed.
                You are indifferent to what others said in the
                past and what you shall hear in the future.

                This just happens automatically because of
                the immediate (in this very instant)
                Guidance. That Guidance is all there is; the
                intellect is inactive.

                52. Your intellect analyzes what others say
                and you can be confused by the many
                options. The yogi; however, can stand
                immovable in the Self with steady
                understanding of the course of action
                needed.
              • medit8ionsociety
                ... Yo Westwindwood, This and the previous Gita posting are, as usual, very great pointings. I like the term Guidance (with the capital G) as we often see
                Message 7 of 28 , Jun 7, 2008
                  "westwindwood2003" <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > What happens to a yogi? These are active
                  > and passive. The following is passive
                  > because it just happens without effort.
                  >
                  > 51. When understanding from your practice
                  > comes, intellectual delusion is bypassed.
                  > You are indifferent to what others said in the
                  > past and what you shall hear in the future.
                  >
                  > This just happens automatically because of
                  > the immediate (in this very instant)
                  > Guidance. That Guidance is all there is; the
                  > intellect is inactive.
                  >
                  > 52. Your intellect analyzes what others say
                  > and you can be confused by the many
                  > options. The yogi; however, can stand
                  > immovable in the Self with steady
                  > understanding of the course of action
                  > needed.
                  >
                  Yo Westwindwood,
                  This and the previous Gita posting are,
                  as usual, very great pointings. I like
                  the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
                  we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
                  with the term Guidance we also get the
                  concept that a definitive understanding
                  takes place that transcends the mind's usual
                  "it could be like this, or it could be
                  like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
                  will be done" reality to take us over (and
                  inner) and we then automatically let events
                  of our life proceed as they may without
                  any inner chattering that commonly brings
                  us negativity (takes our peace away). And
                  of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
                  whatever masks cover this true identity.
                  So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
                  Thanks again for sharing.
                  Peace and blessings,
                  Bob
                • westwindwood2003
                  I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little getting used to and
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jun 7, 2008
                    I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for
                    word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little
                    getting used to and sometimes the English words that are chosen by the
                    author have several definitions and the author sometime uses the more
                    obscure definition, so I find I have to use a dictionary some to get
                    the real meaning. What I then do is try and relate that word for word
                    English translation to my own meditation experience so that I can
                    express that translation in a way that is more understandable I hope.
                    What I find wonderful about the Gita is here are these words that in
                    a condensed kind of way outlines the spiritual experience, like
                    lecture notes that a teacher can expand on. Since I meditate myself,
                    I feel that I can do the subject some justice, but I sometimes wonder
                    if there might be better words than the ones I use.
                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety .

                    > Yo Westwindwood,
                    > This and the previous Gita posting are,
                    > as usual, very great pointings. I like
                    > the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
                    > we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
                    > with the term Guidance we also get the
                    > concept that a definitive understanding
                    > takes place that transcends the mind's usual
                    > "it could be like this, or it could be
                    > like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
                    > will be done" reality to take us over (and
                    > inner) and we then automatically let events
                    > of our life proceed as they may without
                    > any inner chattering that commonly brings
                    > us negativity (takes our peace away). And
                    > of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
                    > whatever masks cover this true identity.
                    > So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
                    > Thanks again for sharing.
                    > Peace and blessings,
                    > Bob
                    >
                  • suman sk
                    Thanks for continued posting on the wisdom of Geeta. I read it everyday and find a wonderful insight into the true learning. It is a science in itself but only
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jun 8, 2008

                      Thanks for continued posting on the wisdom of Geeta.

                      I read it everyday and find a wonderful insight into the true learning.

                      It is a science in itself but only for the beleiver.

                      Om and God bless all of us

                       

                      Surendra K



                      --- On Sat, 6/7/08, westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:

                      From: westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@...>
                      Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Bhagavad Gita 12
                      To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Saturday, June 7, 2008, 11:53 PM

                      I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for
                      word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little
                      getting used to and sometimes the English words that are chosen by the
                      author have several definitions and the author sometime uses the more
                      obscure definition, so I find I have to use a dictionary some to get
                      the real meaning. What I then do is try and relate that word for word
                      English translation to my own meditation experience so that I can
                      express that translation in a way that is more understandable I hope.
                      What I find wonderful about the Gita is here are these words that in
                      a condensed kind of way outlines the spiritual experience, like
                      lecture notes that a teacher can expand on. Since I meditate myself,
                      I feel that I can do the subject some justice, but I sometimes wonder
                      if there might be better words than the ones I use.
                      --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety .

                      > Yo Westwindwood,
                      > This and the previous Gita posting are,
                      > as usual, very great pointings. I like
                      > the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
                      > we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
                      > with the term Guidance we also get the
                      > concept that a definitive understanding
                      > takes place that transcends the mind's usual
                      > "it could be like this, or it could be
                      > like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
                      > will be done" reality to take us over (and
                      > inner) and we then automatically let events
                      > of our life proceed as they may without
                      > any inner chattering that commonly brings
                      > us negativity (takes our peace away). And
                      > of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
                      > whatever masks cover this true identity.
                      > So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
                      > Thanks again for sharing.
                      > Peace and blessings,
                      > Bob
                      >


                    • WestWindWood
                      54. Arjuna asks a question about the qualities (steady of disposition, consistent in vision) of a sage, (who has merged with the Creator, the nature of that
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jun 9, 2008
                        54. Arjuna asks a question about the
                        qualities (steady of disposition,
                        consistent in vision) of a sage, (who
                        has merged with the Creator, the
                        nature of that which underlies all
                        existence). 

                        The sage, merged into the Creator
                        beyond the normal conscious state,
                        we could say in deep meditation,
                        experiences the qualities of the
                        Creator.  The sage has, over may
                        years of evolution, taken these
                        experiences and incorporated in him,
                        through proper action and behavior,
                        the qualities of the Creator so that
                        the sage became Self. 

                        This seems like A LOT OF HARD
                        WORK! But in reality, it is just a
                        giving up of all those qualities of
                        personality that are not of the divine
                        nature.  It seems an agony at the
                        time, but is nothing looking back,
                        and why was that I clung to so
                        important anyway, but it was.


                        55. Sri Bhagavan (Krishna) said:
                        All desires of the mind (of ones very
                        heart) are cast off, Oh Partha, by
                        becoming the Self by working with
                        the Self in steady wisdom.

                        Contact with the Self in meditation
                        brings a steady wisdom, Oh what to
                        do about my present situation and
                        how am I going to work this out,
                        God's will be done, and so it goes
                        with an answer coming to me so that
                        I become more the Self by practicing
                        proper behavior and letting the Self
                        emerge in place of the misguided
                        personality that I have begun with.



                        56. The mind is unshaken in
                        adversity, and in pleasure, there is no
                        latching onto and wanting to retain. 
                        Free from attachment, fear and anger
                        is the sage poised in wisdom.

                        The wisdom found in meditation
                        allows the sage these characteristics. 
                        This is just something that happens,
                        a symptom, not something that the
                        sage tries to grasp and become, it just
                        happens because one meditates.


                      • aideenmck
                        Belated thanks for these posts helping us to understand the Bhagavad Gita, about which I was almost totally ignorant. Recently, I ve been reading Ram Dass s
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jun 11, 2008
                          Belated thanks for these posts helping us to understand the Bhagavad
                          Gita, about which I was almost totally ignorant. Recently, I've been
                          reading Ram Dass's "Paths to God: Living the Bhagavad Gita" - it,
                          too, is a revelation. Also reading Rumi's poetry, the Coleman Barks
                          translation. And meeting Theravadin monks, listening to their dharma
                          talks. Sometimes I feel as if I'm perceiving everything for the
                          first time. (Where have I been?)
                          Aideen

                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, WestWindWood
                          <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > 54. Arjuna asks a question about the
                          > qualities (steady of disposition,
                          > consistent in vision) of a sage, (who
                          > has merged with the Creator, the
                          > nature of that which underlies all
                          > existence).
                          >
                          > The sage, merged into the Creator
                          > beyond the normal conscious state,
                          > we could say in deep meditation,
                          > experiences the qualities of the
                          > Creator. The sage has, over may
                          > years of evolution, taken these
                          > experiences and incorporated in him,
                          > through proper action and behavior,
                          > the qualities of the Creator so that
                          > the sage became Self.
                          >
                          > This seems like A LOT OF HARD
                          > WORK! But in reality, it is just a
                          > giving up of all those qualities of
                          > personality that are not of the divine
                          > nature. It seems an agony at the
                          > time, but is nothing looking back,
                          > and why was that I clung to so
                          > important anyway, but it was.
                          >
                          >
                          > 55. Sri Bhagavan (Krishna) said:
                          > All desires of the mind (of ones very
                          > heart) are cast off, Oh Partha, by
                          > becoming the Self by working with
                          > the Self in steady wisdom.
                          >
                          > Contact with the Self in meditation
                          > brings a steady wisdom, Oh what to
                          > do about my present situation and
                          > how am I going to work this out,
                          > God's will be done, and so it goes
                          > with an answer coming to me so that
                          > I become more the Self by practicing
                          > proper behavior and letting the Self
                          > emerge in place of the misguided
                          > personality that I have begun with.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > 56. The mind is unshaken in
                          > adversity, and in pleasure, there is no
                          > latching onto and wanting to retain.
                          > Free from attachment, fear and anger
                          > is the sage poised in wisdom.
                          >
                          > The wisdom found in meditation
                          > allows the sage these characteristics.
                          > This is just something that happens,
                          > a symptom, not something that the
                          > sage tries to grasp and become, it just
                          > happens because one meditates.
                          >
                        • westwindwood2003
                          I do not know Sanskrit and so I know that I am not going to always get a translation correct. If I do make a mistake, I do not feel that I am causing any harm
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jun 14, 2008
                            I do not know Sanskrit and so I know
                            that I am not going to always get a
                            translation correct. If I do make a
                            mistake, I do not feel that I am
                            causing any harm because I just wind
                            up commenting on a different aspect
                            of meditation than what the Gita is
                            referring to at that point. However,
                            if I do get it wrong on a particular
                            passage, I would like to hear about it
                            if someone knows I am wrong
                            because I might miss some facet of
                            meditation that I might not touch on
                            later that is important.

                            57. Life's many experiences evoke
                            thoughts and feelings. However,
                            rejoicing in the good and hatred of
                            the bad is not in the personality of
                            the person who dwells, resides, in
                            Wisdom.

                            Being with that Wisdom, the one on
                            the path feels the situation is not
                            defined as good or bad, but God's
                            will, and so petitions for the
                            Knowledge of right behavior to deal
                            wisely in the circumstance.

                            58. A tortoise withdraws head and
                            limbs when disturbed, and a Yogi,
                            when confronted with an attractive
                            sight or painful scene reflexively
                            pulls in to contemplate the situation
                            knowing a moment's reflection
                            brings Wisdom.

                            59. Seeing an object of desire, a
                            person remains abstinent upon
                            leaving the longing behind. Even a
                            hint of the desirable reaction drops
                            away from the person who perceives
                            the Supreme.
                          • westwindwood2003
                            60. The wise person strives for perfection; turbulent situations though, the chaos of the day, violently carries away the mind. OK, so don t hesitate to
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jun 18, 2008
                              60. The wise person strives for
                              perfection; turbulent situations
                              though, the chaos of the day,
                              violently carries away the mind.

                              OK, so don't hesitate to meditate!

                              61. The yogi controls the chaos of
                              the day, these thoughts restrained
                              and joined together. Focus on God
                              and the yogi's thoughts are settled.

                              The turbulent thoughts of the yogi
                              are allowed to surface in meditation,
                              and the calming effect of the
                              meditation experience affects a
                              change in the mind (this just happens
                              without any attempt at control). With
                              the calming, the focus can them be
                              brought to God, who then brings
                              wisdom allowing the thoughts to be
                              settled.

                              62. Objects of the senses, (what
                              causes the turbulent thoughts of a
                              person) cause strong attachment
                              because a person has the propensity
                              for that particular object of the
                              senses. From this attachment comes
                              desire and from desire a kind of
                              anger, of that is mine,
                              possessiveness.

                              Attachment caused by their own
                              personality, or perhaps we could say
                              from their previous karma gives
                              material to work on in meditation.

                              63. From anger comes delusion and
                              from this delusion comes a forgetting
                              of facts (memory of what really
                              happened or how things are), and
                              this loss of reason with impetuous
                              behavior, results in death.

                              Why am I thinking of a motorcycle
                              going 110 mph on a windy country
                              road? Actually, this could be most
                              anything and usually results in a visit
                              from a police officer, or at best
                              recognition of out of control feelings
                              that need to be worked on in
                              meditation.
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