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Re: [Meditation Society of America] The Bhagavad Gita 7

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  • sean tremblay
    to bad that idea didn t make to the guys with the ammonium nitrate. I do realize that the most violent segments of any religion realy are a minority. Was it
    Message 1 of 28 , Mar 23 5:57 PM
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      to bad that idea didn't make to the guys with the
      ammonium nitrate.
      I do realize that the most violent segments of any
      religion realy are a minority. Was it Socrates who
      said there have always coexisted two religions one for
      the masses and one for the initiate? any way it was
      one of the great greeks
      --- Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:

      > The Islamic concept of jihad
      > is understood in a similarly
      > bifurcated way -- Muslim
      > moderates tend to see it as
      > referring to an inner
      > struggle toward understanding
      > and righteousness, while
      > various fundy factions
      > interpret it literally as war
      > against "infidels" on behalf
      > of Islam itself.
      >
      >
      > sean tremblay wrote:
      > > yep, I understand it both ways
      > > --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >> Sean -
      > >>
      > >> Krisna's advice to Arjuna is
      > >> in the context of consciousness.
      > >> The battleground is the mind
      > >> and the concepts that the illusory
      > >> and secondary identity (ego)
      > >> finds so precious.
      > >>
      > >> Enlightenment - in one aspect, the
      > >> victory over ego attachments - reveals
      > >> a primary identity that has absolute
      > >> clarity and no unanswered questions
      > >> ...nothing to resolve...perfect peace
      > >> of mind and utter tranquility.
      > >>
      > >> Jeff
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> --- In
      > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
      > >> sean tremblay
      > >> <bethjams9@...> wrote:
      > >>
      > >>> And has been the rallying battle cry of all
      > >>>
      > >> commanders
      > >>
      > >>> to the troops of all nations who make war!
      > >>> In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a
      > military
      > >>> sense, this is something I myself have struggled
      > >>>
      > >> with.
      > >>
      > >>> I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma
      > is
      > >>>
      > >> to
      > >>
      > >>> explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
      > >>> insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
      > >>> soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
      > >>> anarchist at heart with a didain for authority
      > and
      > >>>
      > >> a
      > >>
      > >>> dislike of possesing authority over others
      > yet....
      > >>>
      > >> I
      > >>
      > >>> find the military in some form or other keeps
      > >>>
      > >> creeping
      > >>
      > >>> it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I
      > must
      > >>> break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
      > >>> --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>> Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
      > >>>>
      > >>>> westwindwood2003 wrote:
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
      > >>>>> 31. One is born into the class of people that
      > >>>>>
      > >>>> fight for
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
      > >>>>>
      > >>>> duty, so look at not
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> to waver.
      > >>>>> 32. It has happened at this time that the gift
      > >>>>>
      > >> of
      > >>
      > >>>> enlightenment is
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go
      > >>>>>
      > >> into
      > >>
      > >>>> this battle.
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare
      > >>>>>
      > >> that
      > >>
      > >>>> is you fame, your
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
      > >>>>> 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
      > >>>>>
      > >>>> honored and this
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>> 35. Other warriors who have experienced
      > >>>>>
      > >>>> enlightenment and currently
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
      > >>>>>
      > >>>> light weigh for
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>> 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
      > >>>>>
      > >>>> will say your enemies
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> will criticize your petty power. What could
      > >>>>>
      > >> be
      > >>
      > >>>> more painful than
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> this?
      > >>>>> 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious
      > >>>>>
      > >> you
      > >>
      > >>>> will enjoy the
      > >>>>
      > >>>>> earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to
      > >>>>>
      > >> fight.
      > >>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>
      >
      >


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
      Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
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    • Bruce Morgen
      The Islamic concept of jihad is understood in a similarly bifurcated way -- Muslim moderates tend to see it as referring to an inner struggle toward
      Message 2 of 28 , Mar 23 6:51 PM
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        The Islamic concept of jihad
        is understood in a similarly
        bifurcated way -- Muslim
        moderates tend to see it as
        referring to an inner
        struggle toward understanding
        and righteousness, while
        various fundy factions
        interpret it literally as war
        against "infidels" on behalf
        of Islam itself.


        sean tremblay wrote:
        > yep, I understand it both ways
        > --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >> Sean -
        >>
        >> Krisna's advice to Arjuna is
        >> in the context of consciousness.
        >> The battleground is the mind
        >> and the concepts that the illusory
        >> and secondary identity (ego)
        >> finds so precious.
        >>
        >> Enlightenment - in one aspect, the
        >> victory over ego attachments - reveals
        >> a primary identity that has absolute
        >> clarity and no unanswered questions
        >> ...nothing to resolve...perfect peace
        >> of mind and utter tranquility.
        >>
        >> Jeff
        >>
        >>
        >> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
        >> sean tremblay
        >> <bethjams9@...> wrote:
        >>
        >>> And has been the rallying battle cry of all
        >>>
        >> commanders
        >>
        >>> to the troops of all nations who make war!
        >>> In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a military
        >>> sense, this is something I myself have struggled
        >>>
        >> with.
        >>
        >>> I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma is
        >>>
        >> to
        >>
        >>> explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
        >>> insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
        >>> soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
        >>> anarchist at heart with a didain for authority and
        >>>
        >> a
        >>
        >>> dislike of possesing authority over others yet....
        >>>
        >> I
        >>
        >>> find the military in some form or other keeps
        >>>
        >> creeping
        >>
        >>> it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I must
        >>> break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
        >>> --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>> Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
        >>>>
        >>>> westwindwood2003 wrote:
        >>>>
        >>>>> Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
        >>>>> 31. One is born into the class of people that
        >>>>>
        >>>> fight for
        >>>>
        >>>>> righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
        >>>>>
        >>>> duty, so look at not
        >>>>
        >>>>> to waver.
        >>>>> 32. It has happened at this time that the gift
        >>>>>
        >> of
        >>
        >>>> enlightenment is
        >>>>
        >>>>> apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go
        >>>>>
        >> into
        >>
        >>>> this battle.
        >>>>
        >>>>> 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare
        >>>>>
        >> that
        >>
        >>>> is you fame, your
        >>>>
        >>>>> duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
        >>>>> 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
        >>>>>
        >>>> honored and this
        >>>>
        >>>>> everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
        >>>>>
        >>>>> 35. Other warriors who have experienced
        >>>>>
        >>>> enlightenment and currently
        >>>>
        >>>>> hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
        >>>>>
        >>>> light weigh for
        >>>>
        >>>>> withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
        >>>>>
        >>>>> 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
        >>>>>
        >>>> will say your enemies
        >>>>
        >>>>> will criticize your petty power. What could
        >>>>>
        >> be
        >>
        >>>> more painful than
        >>>>
        >>>>> this?
        >>>>> 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious
        >>>>>
        >> you
        >>
        >>>> will enjoy the
        >>>>
        >>>>> earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to
        >>>>>
        >> fight.
        >>
        >>>>>
        >>>>>
        >>>>
      • westwindwood2003
        38. Engage yourself in this battle where pain and pleasure, gain and loss, victory and defeat matter not. You incur no sin because all these pairs are
        Message 3 of 28 , Mar 30 10:29 PM
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          38. Engage yourself in this battle where pain and pleasure, gain and
          loss, victory and defeat matter not. You incur no sin because all
          these pairs are released (let go of) in this battle for wisdom (right
          behavior).

          When you experience enlightenment, knowledge of how you should
          conduct your affairs is presented to you in meditation; you offer up
          the positive and negative feelings that have surfaced in meditation
          and ask for guidance. Your desire for a particular outcome is
          totally let go of and the insight of how you should proceed is given
          to you.

          39. Listen up Arjuna; taking up the yoke of Yoga means absolutely
          adhering to the Wisdom the yoga presents to you, and in doing so, the
          bondage of karma shall be removed.

          You will follow a wisdom not found in your own personality, something
          much better than your nature, and you will be changed for the better.

          40. In this most feeble of efforts there is no production of
          unfortunate results, even with uneven application, this duty protects
          against great fear.

          It has been a while since I started meditation, but I remember.
          Meditation was such a feeble tentative effort because of my karma, my
          condition. However, I was urged to continue by a wise person, and a
          tiny start was all it took; it was a beginning with good results. I
          did have great fear because I was so out of my comfort zone; having
          what I thought was control of my destiny (hah, what an illusion that
          is with all the self induced pain). So I worked on cultivating the
          relationship (I was uneven in the application because I LIKED the
          familiarity of my nature) with that Wisdom I had found, and with the
          procedure of doing meditation came calmness, the determination to do
          the right thing in giving up my karmic tendencies because life was
          better that way. The fear left soon on, but the propensities still
          persisted for many years and required much work.

          41. One pointed determination is the destiny of Arjuna (Oh the joy of
          the Kurus is he) because there is always a single answer for any
          specific problem. There is but one decision for a problem since he
          has taken to the spiritual battlefield. The mind not centered on the
          spiritual has much recourse, and multiple choices to resolve, but
          nothing becomes fixed as a solution.

          The wisdom in meditation is always consistent (you present the same
          problem again, and you get the same answer again), the answer hurts
          no one, and is really hard to do the new behavior to change the
          personality (and work out karma). The intellectual mind thinks of
          many solutions to a problem, which to choose? The emotional mind can
          be in chaos with all the feelings that surface, but the feelings come
          to one point with enough meditation, and then come the offering up of
          the issue to receive the wisdom on how to proceed.
        • westwindwood2003
          ... battlefield ... a ... he ... archery ... then ... other, ... Lots ... to ... in ... really ... enjoyment ... part ... family ... this ... to ... right ...
          Message 4 of 28 , Apr 6, 2008
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            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
            <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
            >
            > Chapter I
            > The Bhagavad Gita, which I shall call the Gita hereafter has been
            > called the Bible of India. The setting of the Gita is a
            battlefield
            > where Sri Krishna has promised to help both sides. There are two
            > choices; one side gets the wherewithal of earthly endeavors while
            > Krishna offers to place his unarmed self on the other side. Arjuna
            > is first and chooses Krishna, and Duryodhana is relieved because he
            > gets all the resources of the world. So, the armies gather on the
            > field where previous religious sacrifices have made the battlefield
            a
            > spiritual place. When Duryodhana sees the army Arjuna is part of,
            he
            > notes strong warriors, but states he also has the same on his side
            > and so states to his preceptor, a Brahman who has also taught
            archery
            > to some of those in the army associated with Arjuna. Duryodhana
            then
            > goes on to brag about how huge his army is and how meager the
            other,
            > but uses words that can also mean huge and disorganized, thrown
            > together willy-nilly, compared to compact and well disciplined.
            Lots
            > of horn blowing commences on both sides, then Arjuna asks Krishna
            to
            > place the war chariot between the armies so that he can have a look
            > at the enemy and then sees relatives on both sides. Arjuna falters
            in
            > his resolution to fight. The Gita is allegorical so Arjuna is
            really
            > faced with going for the spiritual approach to life and he has to
            > decide. The spiritual against the human condition with its
            enjoyment
            > and pleasures and all his relatives in the army of Duryodhana as
            part
            > of that human condition is the choice. Arjuna thinks it would be a
            > sin to slay these miscreants, but the next few verses go on to say
            > how nasty these folks really are and how impiety would corrupt
            family
            > life if they were allowed to win. Overwhelmed with sorrow for the
            > coming fight, Arjuna puts down his weapons.
            >
            > Chapter II
            > Arjuna is overcome with compassion, distress and tears; and needs
            > help. The Lord now speaks for the first time in the Gita and at
            this
            > point the real Gita proper is initiated with a statement of the
            > fundamental message: Arjuna, do not be without strength and yield
            to
            > weakness of the heart. Stand up oh scorcher of foes. So Arjuna
            says:
            > Lord who is slayer of foes, how can I attack the people in the
            > opposition who are worthy of worship, one who is verily the
            > embodiment of chastity and self denial, and the other a man of
            right
            > conduct who was my teacher? Wealth and desires of this world would
            > be tainted with blood. Which is best I do not know, they
            conquering
            > us or we them. After slaying them we should not care to live.
            With
            > nature overpowered by taint of pity, with mind in confusion about
            > duty, decisively say what I should do as I am your disciple and You
            > my refuge. This is significant because before this Arjuna was
            > concerned about pleasant things, learning, wealth, culture, wives,
            > progeny, kingdom. Now, he has reoriented to want what is good and
            > this is a prerequisite for enlightenment. Arjuna says: Nothing I
            see
            > would remove grief that dries up my senses, even if I have the most
            > prosperous kingdom and dominion over the celestials.
            >
            > Now a minister to the king whose army is fighting against the army
            > Arjuna is in has the temporary ability to tell all of the foregoing
            > to the king even though remote from the battlefield. The minister
            now
            > goes on to describe Arjuna as not wanting to fight; however, Arjuna
            > is one who can control the need for sleep, and this signifies he
            has
            > some level of attainment with matters of meditation, and therefore
            he
            > is bound to make the correct choice. Arjuna is unlikely to call
            off
            > the war although the king wishes he would do so.
            >
            > Hrishikesa (Krishna) smiles and now speaks the words to the
            > despondent one between the two armies.
            >
            > Those who should not be grieved for, you have grieved for, although
            > you have words of wisdom. For the dead, the living, the wise
            grieve
            > not. Here Arjuna does not possess the first characteristic of a
            > Yogi, the integration of thought, speech and action and he is
            warned
            > about loosing yoga. Bodies come and go, but the Atman exists both
            > past and future. The soul in this body experiences childhood, youth
            > and old age, then moves to another body. The enlightened know this
            > and death is OK.
            >
            > (Chapter II to be continued later)
            >
          • westwindwood2003
            A little background first. Prakriti or the phenomenal universe is delineated in the Vedic teaching. The Vedas identify the phenomenal universe so completely
            Message 5 of 28 , Jun 3, 2008
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              A little background first. Prakriti or the phenomenal universe is
              delineated in the Vedic teaching. The Vedas identify the phenomenal
              universe so completely that the phenomenal and Vedas are considered
              the same essence. The three Gunas are Sattva, Rajas and Tamas and
              constitute the Vedas. Sattva is an illumination shining forth from
              the individual through knowledge, Rajas characteristics are greed and
              selfish activities and Tamas inactivity, delusion, recklessness and
              darkness. The three Gunas compete with each other, create unbalance,
              and cause the propagation of the phenomenal universe.

              What does one then do? The Key is Yoga. In other words, do your
              meditation, offer up the work that is yours, perform the prescribed
              duty revealed to you and do not desire results one way or the other,
              just do the requested action found in meditation. In this way you
              will not be a producer of karma. The Gita states:

              45. Deal with the three attributes, the Vedas. Be without these three
              attributes Oh Arjuna, free from the pairs of opposites, ever remaining
              in the Sattva (goodness) free from (the thought of) material
              acquisition and preservation, established in the self.


              46. In this work, the only right thing for you is not desire the
              fruits of your effort. Also at any time, do not let this not wanting
              fruits of action be the motive because in not having your attachment
              you would let there be an inaction.

              Yoga eventually takes a person beyond the three Gunas so that even
              Sattva eventually fades as all is worked out.

              48. Steadfast in yoga, perform attachment abandonment, Oh Dhananjaya,
              in success and failure be the same as yoga is called having an
              evenness of mind.

              However, this can only be attained by meditation. It is not attained
              by act of willpower as the goings on are the doings of the Lord
              speaking within and the one who meditates is in the position of a
              willing servant. Just do it.
            • westwindwood2003
              49. Action not directed by yoga is by far most inferior. Oh Dhananjaya, the self-seekers, those taking advantage of opportunities without regard for the
              Message 6 of 28 , Jun 5, 2008
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                49. Action not directed by yoga is by far most
                inferior. Oh Dhananjaya, the self-seekers,
                those taking advantage of opportunities without
                regard for the consequences, have a wretched
                existence.

                The unaware person lives their life seeking
                pleasure, trying to get head. Perhaps something
                happens, some calamity or maybe it is just a
                realization that life is not right. There is
                religion to turn to, religious works and teachers.
                Ultimately though, there is the complete giving
                over to God, a total offering up of what one is
                striving for spiritually and seeking guidance in
                deep meditation, a discovery through yoga of
                the path to resolution of it all.

                50. With meditation comes a calmness of mind,
                tranquility. Also, there is wisdom that comes
                showing the actions, the feelings even, that
                needs to be acted upon to grow. There is
                perfection in this life following this path.
                Devote yourself to yoga. Good and evil deeds,
                how do I know which is which? Pursuing
                either should eventually cease. But, it will take
                decades to evolve through it all because it is
                hard to change ones personality.

                Intellectually we have a feeling for what is
                right and wrong, but this is action not directed
                by yoga and is inferior. For instance, I may
                help someone and that seems right to me;
                however, I might be keeping that person from
                discovering the path because they may not
                realize life needs working on. If I do not help
                them when I easily can do so, that might seem
                wrong. The answer to the proper action is
                revealed in meditation.

                51. The wise, those who meditate, let go of the
                desire, lets answers come when no ego
                intervenes, discerns proper action and go
                beyond evil, eventually evolving into the nature
                that frees them from being bound to birthing
                again.
              • westwindwood2003
                What happens to a yogi? These are active and passive. The following is passive because it just happens without effort. 51. When understanding from your
                Message 7 of 28 , Jun 6, 2008
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                  What happens to a yogi? These are active
                  and passive. The following is passive
                  because it just happens without effort.

                  51. When understanding from your practice
                  comes, intellectual delusion is bypassed.
                  You are indifferent to what others said in the
                  past and what you shall hear in the future.

                  This just happens automatically because of
                  the immediate (in this very instant)
                  Guidance. That Guidance is all there is; the
                  intellect is inactive.

                  52. Your intellect analyzes what others say
                  and you can be confused by the many
                  options. The yogi; however, can stand
                  immovable in the Self with steady
                  understanding of the course of action
                  needed.
                • medit8ionsociety
                  ... Yo Westwindwood, This and the previous Gita posting are, as usual, very great pointings. I like the term Guidance (with the capital G) as we often see
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jun 7, 2008
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                    "westwindwood2003" <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > What happens to a yogi? These are active
                    > and passive. The following is passive
                    > because it just happens without effort.
                    >
                    > 51. When understanding from your practice
                    > comes, intellectual delusion is bypassed.
                    > You are indifferent to what others said in the
                    > past and what you shall hear in the future.
                    >
                    > This just happens automatically because of
                    > the immediate (in this very instant)
                    > Guidance. That Guidance is all there is; the
                    > intellect is inactive.
                    >
                    > 52. Your intellect analyzes what others say
                    > and you can be confused by the many
                    > options. The yogi; however, can stand
                    > immovable in the Self with steady
                    > understanding of the course of action
                    > needed.
                    >
                    Yo Westwindwood,
                    This and the previous Gita posting are,
                    as usual, very great pointings. I like
                    the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
                    we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
                    with the term Guidance we also get the
                    concept that a definitive understanding
                    takes place that transcends the mind's usual
                    "it could be like this, or it could be
                    like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
                    will be done" reality to take us over (and
                    inner) and we then automatically let events
                    of our life proceed as they may without
                    any inner chattering that commonly brings
                    us negativity (takes our peace away). And
                    of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
                    whatever masks cover this true identity.
                    So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
                    Thanks again for sharing.
                    Peace and blessings,
                    Bob
                  • westwindwood2003
                    I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little getting used to and
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jun 7, 2008
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                      I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for
                      word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little
                      getting used to and sometimes the English words that are chosen by the
                      author have several definitions and the author sometime uses the more
                      obscure definition, so I find I have to use a dictionary some to get
                      the real meaning. What I then do is try and relate that word for word
                      English translation to my own meditation experience so that I can
                      express that translation in a way that is more understandable I hope.
                      What I find wonderful about the Gita is here are these words that in
                      a condensed kind of way outlines the spiritual experience, like
                      lecture notes that a teacher can expand on. Since I meditate myself,
                      I feel that I can do the subject some justice, but I sometimes wonder
                      if there might be better words than the ones I use.
                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety .

                      > Yo Westwindwood,
                      > This and the previous Gita posting are,
                      > as usual, very great pointings. I like
                      > the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
                      > we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
                      > with the term Guidance we also get the
                      > concept that a definitive understanding
                      > takes place that transcends the mind's usual
                      > "it could be like this, or it could be
                      > like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
                      > will be done" reality to take us over (and
                      > inner) and we then automatically let events
                      > of our life proceed as they may without
                      > any inner chattering that commonly brings
                      > us negativity (takes our peace away). And
                      > of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
                      > whatever masks cover this true identity.
                      > So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
                      > Thanks again for sharing.
                      > Peace and blessings,
                      > Bob
                      >
                    • suman sk
                      Thanks for continued posting on the wisdom of Geeta. I read it everyday and find a wonderful insight into the true learning. It is a science in itself but only
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jun 8, 2008
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                        Thanks for continued posting on the wisdom of Geeta.

                        I read it everyday and find a wonderful insight into the true learning.

                        It is a science in itself but only for the beleiver.

                        Om and God bless all of us

                         

                        Surendra K



                        --- On Sat, 6/7/08, westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:

                        From: westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@...>
                        Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Bhagavad Gita 12
                        To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Saturday, June 7, 2008, 11:53 PM

                        I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for
                        word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little
                        getting used to and sometimes the English words that are chosen by the
                        author have several definitions and the author sometime uses the more
                        obscure definition, so I find I have to use a dictionary some to get
                        the real meaning. What I then do is try and relate that word for word
                        English translation to my own meditation experience so that I can
                        express that translation in a way that is more understandable I hope.
                        What I find wonderful about the Gita is here are these words that in
                        a condensed kind of way outlines the spiritual experience, like
                        lecture notes that a teacher can expand on. Since I meditate myself,
                        I feel that I can do the subject some justice, but I sometimes wonder
                        if there might be better words than the ones I use.
                        --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety .

                        > Yo Westwindwood,
                        > This and the previous Gita posting are,
                        > as usual, very great pointings. I like
                        > the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
                        > we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
                        > with the term Guidance we also get the
                        > concept that a definitive understanding
                        > takes place that transcends the mind's usual
                        > "it could be like this, or it could be
                        > like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
                        > will be done" reality to take us over (and
                        > inner) and we then automatically let events
                        > of our life proceed as they may without
                        > any inner chattering that commonly brings
                        > us negativity (takes our peace away). And
                        > of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
                        > whatever masks cover this true identity.
                        > So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
                        > Thanks again for sharing.
                        > Peace and blessings,
                        > Bob
                        >


                      • WestWindWood
                        54. Arjuna asks a question about the qualities (steady of disposition, consistent in vision) of a sage, (who has merged with the Creator, the nature of that
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jun 9, 2008
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                          54. Arjuna asks a question about the
                          qualities (steady of disposition,
                          consistent in vision) of a sage, (who
                          has merged with the Creator, the
                          nature of that which underlies all
                          existence). 

                          The sage, merged into the Creator
                          beyond the normal conscious state,
                          we could say in deep meditation,
                          experiences the qualities of the
                          Creator.  The sage has, over may
                          years of evolution, taken these
                          experiences and incorporated in him,
                          through proper action and behavior,
                          the qualities of the Creator so that
                          the sage became Self. 

                          This seems like A LOT OF HARD
                          WORK! But in reality, it is just a
                          giving up of all those qualities of
                          personality that are not of the divine
                          nature.  It seems an agony at the
                          time, but is nothing looking back,
                          and why was that I clung to so
                          important anyway, but it was.


                          55. Sri Bhagavan (Krishna) said:
                          All desires of the mind (of ones very
                          heart) are cast off, Oh Partha, by
                          becoming the Self by working with
                          the Self in steady wisdom.

                          Contact with the Self in meditation
                          brings a steady wisdom, Oh what to
                          do about my present situation and
                          how am I going to work this out,
                          God's will be done, and so it goes
                          with an answer coming to me so that
                          I become more the Self by practicing
                          proper behavior and letting the Self
                          emerge in place of the misguided
                          personality that I have begun with.



                          56. The mind is unshaken in
                          adversity, and in pleasure, there is no
                          latching onto and wanting to retain. 
                          Free from attachment, fear and anger
                          is the sage poised in wisdom.

                          The wisdom found in meditation
                          allows the sage these characteristics. 
                          This is just something that happens,
                          a symptom, not something that the
                          sage tries to grasp and become, it just
                          happens because one meditates.


                        • aideenmck
                          Belated thanks for these posts helping us to understand the Bhagavad Gita, about which I was almost totally ignorant. Recently, I ve been reading Ram Dass s
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jun 11, 2008
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                            Belated thanks for these posts helping us to understand the Bhagavad
                            Gita, about which I was almost totally ignorant. Recently, I've been
                            reading Ram Dass's "Paths to God: Living the Bhagavad Gita" - it,
                            too, is a revelation. Also reading Rumi's poetry, the Coleman Barks
                            translation. And meeting Theravadin monks, listening to their dharma
                            talks. Sometimes I feel as if I'm perceiving everything for the
                            first time. (Where have I been?)
                            Aideen

                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, WestWindWood
                            <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > 54. Arjuna asks a question about the
                            > qualities (steady of disposition,
                            > consistent in vision) of a sage, (who
                            > has merged with the Creator, the
                            > nature of that which underlies all
                            > existence).
                            >
                            > The sage, merged into the Creator
                            > beyond the normal conscious state,
                            > we could say in deep meditation,
                            > experiences the qualities of the
                            > Creator. The sage has, over may
                            > years of evolution, taken these
                            > experiences and incorporated in him,
                            > through proper action and behavior,
                            > the qualities of the Creator so that
                            > the sage became Self.
                            >
                            > This seems like A LOT OF HARD
                            > WORK! But in reality, it is just a
                            > giving up of all those qualities of
                            > personality that are not of the divine
                            > nature. It seems an agony at the
                            > time, but is nothing looking back,
                            > and why was that I clung to so
                            > important anyway, but it was.
                            >
                            >
                            > 55. Sri Bhagavan (Krishna) said:
                            > All desires of the mind (of ones very
                            > heart) are cast off, Oh Partha, by
                            > becoming the Self by working with
                            > the Self in steady wisdom.
                            >
                            > Contact with the Self in meditation
                            > brings a steady wisdom, Oh what to
                            > do about my present situation and
                            > how am I going to work this out,
                            > God's will be done, and so it goes
                            > with an answer coming to me so that
                            > I become more the Self by practicing
                            > proper behavior and letting the Self
                            > emerge in place of the misguided
                            > personality that I have begun with.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > 56. The mind is unshaken in
                            > adversity, and in pleasure, there is no
                            > latching onto and wanting to retain.
                            > Free from attachment, fear and anger
                            > is the sage poised in wisdom.
                            >
                            > The wisdom found in meditation
                            > allows the sage these characteristics.
                            > This is just something that happens,
                            > a symptom, not something that the
                            > sage tries to grasp and become, it just
                            > happens because one meditates.
                            >
                          • westwindwood2003
                            I do not know Sanskrit and so I know that I am not going to always get a translation correct. If I do make a mistake, I do not feel that I am causing any harm
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jun 14, 2008
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                              I do not know Sanskrit and so I know
                              that I am not going to always get a
                              translation correct. If I do make a
                              mistake, I do not feel that I am
                              causing any harm because I just wind
                              up commenting on a different aspect
                              of meditation than what the Gita is
                              referring to at that point. However,
                              if I do get it wrong on a particular
                              passage, I would like to hear about it
                              if someone knows I am wrong
                              because I might miss some facet of
                              meditation that I might not touch on
                              later that is important.

                              57. Life's many experiences evoke
                              thoughts and feelings. However,
                              rejoicing in the good and hatred of
                              the bad is not in the personality of
                              the person who dwells, resides, in
                              Wisdom.

                              Being with that Wisdom, the one on
                              the path feels the situation is not
                              defined as good or bad, but God's
                              will, and so petitions for the
                              Knowledge of right behavior to deal
                              wisely in the circumstance.

                              58. A tortoise withdraws head and
                              limbs when disturbed, and a Yogi,
                              when confronted with an attractive
                              sight or painful scene reflexively
                              pulls in to contemplate the situation
                              knowing a moment's reflection
                              brings Wisdom.

                              59. Seeing an object of desire, a
                              person remains abstinent upon
                              leaving the longing behind. Even a
                              hint of the desirable reaction drops
                              away from the person who perceives
                              the Supreme.
                            • westwindwood2003
                              60. The wise person strives for perfection; turbulent situations though, the chaos of the day, violently carries away the mind. OK, so don t hesitate to
                              Message 14 of 28 , Jun 18, 2008
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                                60. The wise person strives for
                                perfection; turbulent situations
                                though, the chaos of the day,
                                violently carries away the mind.

                                OK, so don't hesitate to meditate!

                                61. The yogi controls the chaos of
                                the day, these thoughts restrained
                                and joined together. Focus on God
                                and the yogi's thoughts are settled.

                                The turbulent thoughts of the yogi
                                are allowed to surface in meditation,
                                and the calming effect of the
                                meditation experience affects a
                                change in the mind (this just happens
                                without any attempt at control). With
                                the calming, the focus can them be
                                brought to God, who then brings
                                wisdom allowing the thoughts to be
                                settled.

                                62. Objects of the senses, (what
                                causes the turbulent thoughts of a
                                person) cause strong attachment
                                because a person has the propensity
                                for that particular object of the
                                senses. From this attachment comes
                                desire and from desire a kind of
                                anger, of that is mine,
                                possessiveness.

                                Attachment caused by their own
                                personality, or perhaps we could say
                                from their previous karma gives
                                material to work on in meditation.

                                63. From anger comes delusion and
                                from this delusion comes a forgetting
                                of facts (memory of what really
                                happened or how things are), and
                                this loss of reason with impetuous
                                behavior, results in death.

                                Why am I thinking of a motorcycle
                                going 110 mph on a windy country
                                road? Actually, this could be most
                                anything and usually results in a visit
                                from a police officer, or at best
                                recognition of out of control feelings
                                that need to be worked on in
                                meditation.
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