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Re: [Meditation Society of America] The Bhagavad Gita 7

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  • sean tremblay
    yep, I understand it both ways ... ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your
    Message 1 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
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      yep, I understand it both ways
      --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:

      > Sean -
      >
      > Krisna's advice to Arjuna is
      > in the context of consciousness.
      > The battleground is the mind
      > and the concepts that the illusory
      > and secondary identity (ego)
      > finds so precious.
      >
      > Enlightenment - in one aspect, the
      > victory over ego attachments - reveals
      > a primary identity that has absolute
      > clarity and no unanswered questions
      > ...nothing to resolve...perfect peace
      > of mind and utter tranquility.
      >
      > Jeff
      >
      >
      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
      > sean tremblay
      > <bethjams9@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > And has been the rallying battle cry of all
      > commanders
      > > to the troops of all nations who make war!
      > > In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a military
      > > sense, this is something I myself have struggled
      > with.
      > > I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma is
      > to
      > > explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
      > > insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
      > > soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
      > > anarchist at heart with a didain for authority and
      > a
      > > dislike of possesing authority over others yet....
      > I
      > > find the military in some form or other keeps
      > creeping
      > > it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I must
      > > break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
      > > --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > > Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
      > > >
      > > > westwindwood2003 wrote:
      > > > > Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
      > > > > 31. One is born into the class of people that
      > > > fight for
      > > > > righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
      > > > duty, so look at not
      > > > > to waver.
      > > > > 32. It has happened at this time that the gift
      > of
      > > > enlightenment is
      > > > > apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go
      > into
      > > > this battle.
      > > > > 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare
      > that
      > > > is you fame, your
      > > > > duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
      > > > > 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
      > > > honored and this
      > > > > everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
      >
      > > > > 35. Other warriors who have experienced
      > > > enlightenment and currently
      > > > > hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
      > > > light weigh for
      > > > > withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
      >
      > > > > 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
      > > > will say your enemies
      > > > > will criticize your petty power. What could
      > be
      > > > more painful than
      > > > > this?
      > > > > 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious
      > you
      > > > will enjoy the
      > > > > earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to
      > fight.
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      > ______________
      > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
      > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
      > >
      >
      >
      >



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
      Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
      http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
    • sean tremblay
      to bad that idea didn t make to the guys with the ammonium nitrate. I do realize that the most violent segments of any religion realy are a minority. Was it
      Message 2 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
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        to bad that idea didn't make to the guys with the
        ammonium nitrate.
        I do realize that the most violent segments of any
        religion realy are a minority. Was it Socrates who
        said there have always coexisted two religions one for
        the masses and one for the initiate? any way it was
        one of the great greeks
        --- Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:

        > The Islamic concept of jihad
        > is understood in a similarly
        > bifurcated way -- Muslim
        > moderates tend to see it as
        > referring to an inner
        > struggle toward understanding
        > and righteousness, while
        > various fundy factions
        > interpret it literally as war
        > against "infidels" on behalf
        > of Islam itself.
        >
        >
        > sean tremblay wrote:
        > > yep, I understand it both ways
        > > --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >> Sean -
        > >>
        > >> Krisna's advice to Arjuna is
        > >> in the context of consciousness.
        > >> The battleground is the mind
        > >> and the concepts that the illusory
        > >> and secondary identity (ego)
        > >> finds so precious.
        > >>
        > >> Enlightenment - in one aspect, the
        > >> victory over ego attachments - reveals
        > >> a primary identity that has absolute
        > >> clarity and no unanswered questions
        > >> ...nothing to resolve...perfect peace
        > >> of mind and utter tranquility.
        > >>
        > >> Jeff
        > >>
        > >>
        > >> --- In
        > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
        > >> sean tremblay
        > >> <bethjams9@...> wrote:
        > >>
        > >>> And has been the rallying battle cry of all
        > >>>
        > >> commanders
        > >>
        > >>> to the troops of all nations who make war!
        > >>> In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a
        > military
        > >>> sense, this is something I myself have struggled
        > >>>
        > >> with.
        > >>
        > >>> I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma
        > is
        > >>>
        > >> to
        > >>
        > >>> explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
        > >>> insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
        > >>> soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
        > >>> anarchist at heart with a didain for authority
        > and
        > >>>
        > >> a
        > >>
        > >>> dislike of possesing authority over others
        > yet....
        > >>>
        > >> I
        > >>
        > >>> find the military in some form or other keeps
        > >>>
        > >> creeping
        > >>
        > >>> it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I
        > must
        > >>> break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
        > >>> --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>> Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
        > >>>>
        > >>>> westwindwood2003 wrote:
        > >>>>
        > >>>>> Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
        > >>>>> 31. One is born into the class of people that
        > >>>>>
        > >>>> fight for
        > >>>>
        > >>>>> righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
        > >>>>>
        > >>>> duty, so look at not
        > >>>>
        > >>>>> to waver.
        > >>>>> 32. It has happened at this time that the gift
        > >>>>>
        > >> of
        > >>
        > >>>> enlightenment is
        > >>>>
        > >>>>> apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go
        > >>>>>
        > >> into
        > >>
        > >>>> this battle.
        > >>>>
        > >>>>> 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare
        > >>>>>
        > >> that
        > >>
        > >>>> is you fame, your
        > >>>>
        > >>>>> duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
        > >>>>> 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
        > >>>>>
        > >>>> honored and this
        > >>>>
        > >>>>> everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>> 35. Other warriors who have experienced
        > >>>>>
        > >>>> enlightenment and currently
        > >>>>
        > >>>>> hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
        > >>>>>
        > >>>> light weigh for
        > >>>>
        > >>>>> withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>> 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
        > >>>>>
        > >>>> will say your enemies
        > >>>>
        > >>>>> will criticize your petty power. What could
        > >>>>>
        > >> be
        > >>
        > >>>> more painful than
        > >>>>
        > >>>>> this?
        > >>>>> 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious
        > >>>>>
        > >> you
        > >>
        > >>>> will enjoy the
        > >>>>
        > >>>>> earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to
        > >>>>>
        > >> fight.
        > >>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>>
        > >>>>
        >
        >


        ____________________________________________________________________________________
        Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
        http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
      • Bruce Morgen
        The Islamic concept of jihad is understood in a similarly bifurcated way -- Muslim moderates tend to see it as referring to an inner struggle toward
        Message 3 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
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          The Islamic concept of jihad
          is understood in a similarly
          bifurcated way -- Muslim
          moderates tend to see it as
          referring to an inner
          struggle toward understanding
          and righteousness, while
          various fundy factions
          interpret it literally as war
          against "infidels" on behalf
          of Islam itself.


          sean tremblay wrote:
          > yep, I understand it both ways
          > --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >> Sean -
          >>
          >> Krisna's advice to Arjuna is
          >> in the context of consciousness.
          >> The battleground is the mind
          >> and the concepts that the illusory
          >> and secondary identity (ego)
          >> finds so precious.
          >>
          >> Enlightenment - in one aspect, the
          >> victory over ego attachments - reveals
          >> a primary identity that has absolute
          >> clarity and no unanswered questions
          >> ...nothing to resolve...perfect peace
          >> of mind and utter tranquility.
          >>
          >> Jeff
          >>
          >>
          >> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
          >> sean tremblay
          >> <bethjams9@...> wrote:
          >>
          >>> And has been the rallying battle cry of all
          >>>
          >> commanders
          >>
          >>> to the troops of all nations who make war!
          >>> In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a military
          >>> sense, this is something I myself have struggled
          >>>
          >> with.
          >>
          >>> I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma is
          >>>
          >> to
          >>
          >>> explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
          >>> insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
          >>> soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
          >>> anarchist at heart with a didain for authority and
          >>>
          >> a
          >>
          >>> dislike of possesing authority over others yet....
          >>>
          >> I
          >>
          >>> find the military in some form or other keeps
          >>>
          >> creeping
          >>
          >>> it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I must
          >>> break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
          >>> --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>> Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
          >>>>
          >>>> westwindwood2003 wrote:
          >>>>
          >>>>> Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
          >>>>> 31. One is born into the class of people that
          >>>>>
          >>>> fight for
          >>>>
          >>>>> righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
          >>>>>
          >>>> duty, so look at not
          >>>>
          >>>>> to waver.
          >>>>> 32. It has happened at this time that the gift
          >>>>>
          >> of
          >>
          >>>> enlightenment is
          >>>>
          >>>>> apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go
          >>>>>
          >> into
          >>
          >>>> this battle.
          >>>>
          >>>>> 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare
          >>>>>
          >> that
          >>
          >>>> is you fame, your
          >>>>
          >>>>> duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
          >>>>> 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
          >>>>>
          >>>> honored and this
          >>>>
          >>>>> everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
          >>>>>
          >>>>> 35. Other warriors who have experienced
          >>>>>
          >>>> enlightenment and currently
          >>>>
          >>>>> hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
          >>>>>
          >>>> light weigh for
          >>>>
          >>>>> withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
          >>>>>
          >>>>> 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
          >>>>>
          >>>> will say your enemies
          >>>>
          >>>>> will criticize your petty power. What could
          >>>>>
          >> be
          >>
          >>>> more painful than
          >>>>
          >>>>> this?
          >>>>> 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious
          >>>>>
          >> you
          >>
          >>>> will enjoy the
          >>>>
          >>>>> earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to
          >>>>>
          >> fight.
          >>
          >>>>>
          >>>>>
          >>>>
        • westwindwood2003
          38. Engage yourself in this battle where pain and pleasure, gain and loss, victory and defeat matter not. You incur no sin because all these pairs are
          Message 4 of 28 , Mar 30, 2008
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            38. Engage yourself in this battle where pain and pleasure, gain and
            loss, victory and defeat matter not. You incur no sin because all
            these pairs are released (let go of) in this battle for wisdom (right
            behavior).

            When you experience enlightenment, knowledge of how you should
            conduct your affairs is presented to you in meditation; you offer up
            the positive and negative feelings that have surfaced in meditation
            and ask for guidance. Your desire for a particular outcome is
            totally let go of and the insight of how you should proceed is given
            to you.

            39. Listen up Arjuna; taking up the yoke of Yoga means absolutely
            adhering to the Wisdom the yoga presents to you, and in doing so, the
            bondage of karma shall be removed.

            You will follow a wisdom not found in your own personality, something
            much better than your nature, and you will be changed for the better.

            40. In this most feeble of efforts there is no production of
            unfortunate results, even with uneven application, this duty protects
            against great fear.

            It has been a while since I started meditation, but I remember.
            Meditation was such a feeble tentative effort because of my karma, my
            condition. However, I was urged to continue by a wise person, and a
            tiny start was all it took; it was a beginning with good results. I
            did have great fear because I was so out of my comfort zone; having
            what I thought was control of my destiny (hah, what an illusion that
            is with all the self induced pain). So I worked on cultivating the
            relationship (I was uneven in the application because I LIKED the
            familiarity of my nature) with that Wisdom I had found, and with the
            procedure of doing meditation came calmness, the determination to do
            the right thing in giving up my karmic tendencies because life was
            better that way. The fear left soon on, but the propensities still
            persisted for many years and required much work.

            41. One pointed determination is the destiny of Arjuna (Oh the joy of
            the Kurus is he) because there is always a single answer for any
            specific problem. There is but one decision for a problem since he
            has taken to the spiritual battlefield. The mind not centered on the
            spiritual has much recourse, and multiple choices to resolve, but
            nothing becomes fixed as a solution.

            The wisdom in meditation is always consistent (you present the same
            problem again, and you get the same answer again), the answer hurts
            no one, and is really hard to do the new behavior to change the
            personality (and work out karma). The intellectual mind thinks of
            many solutions to a problem, which to choose? The emotional mind can
            be in chaos with all the feelings that surface, but the feelings come
            to one point with enough meditation, and then come the offering up of
            the issue to receive the wisdom on how to proceed.
          • westwindwood2003
            ... battlefield ... a ... he ... archery ... then ... other, ... Lots ... to ... in ... really ... enjoyment ... part ... family ... this ... to ... right ...
            Message 5 of 28 , Apr 6 11:22 AM
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              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
              <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
              >
              > Chapter I
              > The Bhagavad Gita, which I shall call the Gita hereafter has been
              > called the Bible of India. The setting of the Gita is a
              battlefield
              > where Sri Krishna has promised to help both sides. There are two
              > choices; one side gets the wherewithal of earthly endeavors while
              > Krishna offers to place his unarmed self on the other side. Arjuna
              > is first and chooses Krishna, and Duryodhana is relieved because he
              > gets all the resources of the world. So, the armies gather on the
              > field where previous religious sacrifices have made the battlefield
              a
              > spiritual place. When Duryodhana sees the army Arjuna is part of,
              he
              > notes strong warriors, but states he also has the same on his side
              > and so states to his preceptor, a Brahman who has also taught
              archery
              > to some of those in the army associated with Arjuna. Duryodhana
              then
              > goes on to brag about how huge his army is and how meager the
              other,
              > but uses words that can also mean huge and disorganized, thrown
              > together willy-nilly, compared to compact and well disciplined.
              Lots
              > of horn blowing commences on both sides, then Arjuna asks Krishna
              to
              > place the war chariot between the armies so that he can have a look
              > at the enemy and then sees relatives on both sides. Arjuna falters
              in
              > his resolution to fight. The Gita is allegorical so Arjuna is
              really
              > faced with going for the spiritual approach to life and he has to
              > decide. The spiritual against the human condition with its
              enjoyment
              > and pleasures and all his relatives in the army of Duryodhana as
              part
              > of that human condition is the choice. Arjuna thinks it would be a
              > sin to slay these miscreants, but the next few verses go on to say
              > how nasty these folks really are and how impiety would corrupt
              family
              > life if they were allowed to win. Overwhelmed with sorrow for the
              > coming fight, Arjuna puts down his weapons.
              >
              > Chapter II
              > Arjuna is overcome with compassion, distress and tears; and needs
              > help. The Lord now speaks for the first time in the Gita and at
              this
              > point the real Gita proper is initiated with a statement of the
              > fundamental message: Arjuna, do not be without strength and yield
              to
              > weakness of the heart. Stand up oh scorcher of foes. So Arjuna
              says:
              > Lord who is slayer of foes, how can I attack the people in the
              > opposition who are worthy of worship, one who is verily the
              > embodiment of chastity and self denial, and the other a man of
              right
              > conduct who was my teacher? Wealth and desires of this world would
              > be tainted with blood. Which is best I do not know, they
              conquering
              > us or we them. After slaying them we should not care to live.
              With
              > nature overpowered by taint of pity, with mind in confusion about
              > duty, decisively say what I should do as I am your disciple and You
              > my refuge. This is significant because before this Arjuna was
              > concerned about pleasant things, learning, wealth, culture, wives,
              > progeny, kingdom. Now, he has reoriented to want what is good and
              > this is a prerequisite for enlightenment. Arjuna says: Nothing I
              see
              > would remove grief that dries up my senses, even if I have the most
              > prosperous kingdom and dominion over the celestials.
              >
              > Now a minister to the king whose army is fighting against the army
              > Arjuna is in has the temporary ability to tell all of the foregoing
              > to the king even though remote from the battlefield. The minister
              now
              > goes on to describe Arjuna as not wanting to fight; however, Arjuna
              > is one who can control the need for sleep, and this signifies he
              has
              > some level of attainment with matters of meditation, and therefore
              he
              > is bound to make the correct choice. Arjuna is unlikely to call
              off
              > the war although the king wishes he would do so.
              >
              > Hrishikesa (Krishna) smiles and now speaks the words to the
              > despondent one between the two armies.
              >
              > Those who should not be grieved for, you have grieved for, although
              > you have words of wisdom. For the dead, the living, the wise
              grieve
              > not. Here Arjuna does not possess the first characteristic of a
              > Yogi, the integration of thought, speech and action and he is
              warned
              > about loosing yoga. Bodies come and go, but the Atman exists both
              > past and future. The soul in this body experiences childhood, youth
              > and old age, then moves to another body. The enlightened know this
              > and death is OK.
              >
              > (Chapter II to be continued later)
              >
            • westwindwood2003
              A little background first. Prakriti or the phenomenal universe is delineated in the Vedic teaching. The Vedas identify the phenomenal universe so completely
              Message 6 of 28 , Jun 3, 2008
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                A little background first. Prakriti or the phenomenal universe is
                delineated in the Vedic teaching. The Vedas identify the phenomenal
                universe so completely that the phenomenal and Vedas are considered
                the same essence. The three Gunas are Sattva, Rajas and Tamas and
                constitute the Vedas. Sattva is an illumination shining forth from
                the individual through knowledge, Rajas characteristics are greed and
                selfish activities and Tamas inactivity, delusion, recklessness and
                darkness. The three Gunas compete with each other, create unbalance,
                and cause the propagation of the phenomenal universe.

                What does one then do? The Key is Yoga. In other words, do your
                meditation, offer up the work that is yours, perform the prescribed
                duty revealed to you and do not desire results one way or the other,
                just do the requested action found in meditation. In this way you
                will not be a producer of karma. The Gita states:

                45. Deal with the three attributes, the Vedas. Be without these three
                attributes Oh Arjuna, free from the pairs of opposites, ever remaining
                in the Sattva (goodness) free from (the thought of) material
                acquisition and preservation, established in the self.


                46. In this work, the only right thing for you is not desire the
                fruits of your effort. Also at any time, do not let this not wanting
                fruits of action be the motive because in not having your attachment
                you would let there be an inaction.

                Yoga eventually takes a person beyond the three Gunas so that even
                Sattva eventually fades as all is worked out.

                48. Steadfast in yoga, perform attachment abandonment, Oh Dhananjaya,
                in success and failure be the same as yoga is called having an
                evenness of mind.

                However, this can only be attained by meditation. It is not attained
                by act of willpower as the goings on are the doings of the Lord
                speaking within and the one who meditates is in the position of a
                willing servant. Just do it.
              • westwindwood2003
                49. Action not directed by yoga is by far most inferior. Oh Dhananjaya, the self-seekers, those taking advantage of opportunities without regard for the
                Message 7 of 28 , Jun 5, 2008
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                  49. Action not directed by yoga is by far most
                  inferior. Oh Dhananjaya, the self-seekers,
                  those taking advantage of opportunities without
                  regard for the consequences, have a wretched
                  existence.

                  The unaware person lives their life seeking
                  pleasure, trying to get head. Perhaps something
                  happens, some calamity or maybe it is just a
                  realization that life is not right. There is
                  religion to turn to, religious works and teachers.
                  Ultimately though, there is the complete giving
                  over to God, a total offering up of what one is
                  striving for spiritually and seeking guidance in
                  deep meditation, a discovery through yoga of
                  the path to resolution of it all.

                  50. With meditation comes a calmness of mind,
                  tranquility. Also, there is wisdom that comes
                  showing the actions, the feelings even, that
                  needs to be acted upon to grow. There is
                  perfection in this life following this path.
                  Devote yourself to yoga. Good and evil deeds,
                  how do I know which is which? Pursuing
                  either should eventually cease. But, it will take
                  decades to evolve through it all because it is
                  hard to change ones personality.

                  Intellectually we have a feeling for what is
                  right and wrong, but this is action not directed
                  by yoga and is inferior. For instance, I may
                  help someone and that seems right to me;
                  however, I might be keeping that person from
                  discovering the path because they may not
                  realize life needs working on. If I do not help
                  them when I easily can do so, that might seem
                  wrong. The answer to the proper action is
                  revealed in meditation.

                  51. The wise, those who meditate, let go of the
                  desire, lets answers come when no ego
                  intervenes, discerns proper action and go
                  beyond evil, eventually evolving into the nature
                  that frees them from being bound to birthing
                  again.
                • westwindwood2003
                  What happens to a yogi? These are active and passive. The following is passive because it just happens without effort. 51. When understanding from your
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jun 6, 2008
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                    What happens to a yogi? These are active
                    and passive. The following is passive
                    because it just happens without effort.

                    51. When understanding from your practice
                    comes, intellectual delusion is bypassed.
                    You are indifferent to what others said in the
                    past and what you shall hear in the future.

                    This just happens automatically because of
                    the immediate (in this very instant)
                    Guidance. That Guidance is all there is; the
                    intellect is inactive.

                    52. Your intellect analyzes what others say
                    and you can be confused by the many
                    options. The yogi; however, can stand
                    immovable in the Self with steady
                    understanding of the course of action
                    needed.
                  • medit8ionsociety
                    ... Yo Westwindwood, This and the previous Gita posting are, as usual, very great pointings. I like the term Guidance (with the capital G) as we often see
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jun 7, 2008
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                      "westwindwood2003" <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > What happens to a yogi? These are active
                      > and passive. The following is passive
                      > because it just happens without effort.
                      >
                      > 51. When understanding from your practice
                      > comes, intellectual delusion is bypassed.
                      > You are indifferent to what others said in the
                      > past and what you shall hear in the future.
                      >
                      > This just happens automatically because of
                      > the immediate (in this very instant)
                      > Guidance. That Guidance is all there is; the
                      > intellect is inactive.
                      >
                      > 52. Your intellect analyzes what others say
                      > and you can be confused by the many
                      > options. The yogi; however, can stand
                      > immovable in the Self with steady
                      > understanding of the course of action
                      > needed.
                      >
                      Yo Westwindwood,
                      This and the previous Gita posting are,
                      as usual, very great pointings. I like
                      the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
                      we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
                      with the term Guidance we also get the
                      concept that a definitive understanding
                      takes place that transcends the mind's usual
                      "it could be like this, or it could be
                      like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
                      will be done" reality to take us over (and
                      inner) and we then automatically let events
                      of our life proceed as they may without
                      any inner chattering that commonly brings
                      us negativity (takes our peace away). And
                      of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
                      whatever masks cover this true identity.
                      So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
                      Thanks again for sharing.
                      Peace and blessings,
                      Bob
                    • westwindwood2003
                      I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little getting used to and
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jun 7, 2008
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                        I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for
                        word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little
                        getting used to and sometimes the English words that are chosen by the
                        author have several definitions and the author sometime uses the more
                        obscure definition, so I find I have to use a dictionary some to get
                        the real meaning. What I then do is try and relate that word for word
                        English translation to my own meditation experience so that I can
                        express that translation in a way that is more understandable I hope.
                        What I find wonderful about the Gita is here are these words that in
                        a condensed kind of way outlines the spiritual experience, like
                        lecture notes that a teacher can expand on. Since I meditate myself,
                        I feel that I can do the subject some justice, but I sometimes wonder
                        if there might be better words than the ones I use.
                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety .

                        > Yo Westwindwood,
                        > This and the previous Gita posting are,
                        > as usual, very great pointings. I like
                        > the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
                        > we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
                        > with the term Guidance we also get the
                        > concept that a definitive understanding
                        > takes place that transcends the mind's usual
                        > "it could be like this, or it could be
                        > like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
                        > will be done" reality to take us over (and
                        > inner) and we then automatically let events
                        > of our life proceed as they may without
                        > any inner chattering that commonly brings
                        > us negativity (takes our peace away). And
                        > of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
                        > whatever masks cover this true identity.
                        > So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
                        > Thanks again for sharing.
                        > Peace and blessings,
                        > Bob
                        >
                      • suman sk
                        Thanks for continued posting on the wisdom of Geeta. I read it everyday and find a wonderful insight into the true learning. It is a science in itself but only
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jun 8, 2008
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                          Thanks for continued posting on the wisdom of Geeta.

                          I read it everyday and find a wonderful insight into the true learning.

                          It is a science in itself but only for the beleiver.

                          Om and God bless all of us

                           

                          Surendra K



                          --- On Sat, 6/7/08, westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:

                          From: westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@...>
                          Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Bhagavad Gita 12
                          To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Saturday, June 7, 2008, 11:53 PM

                          I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for
                          word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little
                          getting used to and sometimes the English words that are chosen by the
                          author have several definitions and the author sometime uses the more
                          obscure definition, so I find I have to use a dictionary some to get
                          the real meaning. What I then do is try and relate that word for word
                          English translation to my own meditation experience so that I can
                          express that translation in a way that is more understandable I hope.
                          What I find wonderful about the Gita is here are these words that in
                          a condensed kind of way outlines the spiritual experience, like
                          lecture notes that a teacher can expand on. Since I meditate myself,
                          I feel that I can do the subject some justice, but I sometimes wonder
                          if there might be better words than the ones I use.
                          --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety .

                          > Yo Westwindwood,
                          > This and the previous Gita posting are,
                          > as usual, very great pointings. I like
                          > the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
                          > we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
                          > with the term Guidance we also get the
                          > concept that a definitive understanding
                          > takes place that transcends the mind's usual
                          > "it could be like this, or it could be
                          > like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
                          > will be done" reality to take us over (and
                          > inner) and we then automatically let events
                          > of our life proceed as they may without
                          > any inner chattering that commonly brings
                          > us negativity (takes our peace away). And
                          > of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
                          > whatever masks cover this true identity.
                          > So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
                          > Thanks again for sharing.
                          > Peace and blessings,
                          > Bob
                          >


                        • WestWindWood
                          54. Arjuna asks a question about the qualities (steady of disposition, consistent in vision) of a sage, (who has merged with the Creator, the nature of that
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jun 9, 2008
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                            54. Arjuna asks a question about the
                            qualities (steady of disposition,
                            consistent in vision) of a sage, (who
                            has merged with the Creator, the
                            nature of that which underlies all
                            existence). 

                            The sage, merged into the Creator
                            beyond the normal conscious state,
                            we could say in deep meditation,
                            experiences the qualities of the
                            Creator.  The sage has, over may
                            years of evolution, taken these
                            experiences and incorporated in him,
                            through proper action and behavior,
                            the qualities of the Creator so that
                            the sage became Self. 

                            This seems like A LOT OF HARD
                            WORK! But in reality, it is just a
                            giving up of all those qualities of
                            personality that are not of the divine
                            nature.  It seems an agony at the
                            time, but is nothing looking back,
                            and why was that I clung to so
                            important anyway, but it was.


                            55. Sri Bhagavan (Krishna) said:
                            All desires of the mind (of ones very
                            heart) are cast off, Oh Partha, by
                            becoming the Self by working with
                            the Self in steady wisdom.

                            Contact with the Self in meditation
                            brings a steady wisdom, Oh what to
                            do about my present situation and
                            how am I going to work this out,
                            God's will be done, and so it goes
                            with an answer coming to me so that
                            I become more the Self by practicing
                            proper behavior and letting the Self
                            emerge in place of the misguided
                            personality that I have begun with.



                            56. The mind is unshaken in
                            adversity, and in pleasure, there is no
                            latching onto and wanting to retain. 
                            Free from attachment, fear and anger
                            is the sage poised in wisdom.

                            The wisdom found in meditation
                            allows the sage these characteristics. 
                            This is just something that happens,
                            a symptom, not something that the
                            sage tries to grasp and become, it just
                            happens because one meditates.


                          • aideenmck
                            Belated thanks for these posts helping us to understand the Bhagavad Gita, about which I was almost totally ignorant. Recently, I ve been reading Ram Dass s
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jun 11, 2008
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                              Belated thanks for these posts helping us to understand the Bhagavad
                              Gita, about which I was almost totally ignorant. Recently, I've been
                              reading Ram Dass's "Paths to God: Living the Bhagavad Gita" - it,
                              too, is a revelation. Also reading Rumi's poetry, the Coleman Barks
                              translation. And meeting Theravadin monks, listening to their dharma
                              talks. Sometimes I feel as if I'm perceiving everything for the
                              first time. (Where have I been?)
                              Aideen

                              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, WestWindWood
                              <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > 54. Arjuna asks a question about the
                              > qualities (steady of disposition,
                              > consistent in vision) of a sage, (who
                              > has merged with the Creator, the
                              > nature of that which underlies all
                              > existence).
                              >
                              > The sage, merged into the Creator
                              > beyond the normal conscious state,
                              > we could say in deep meditation,
                              > experiences the qualities of the
                              > Creator. The sage has, over may
                              > years of evolution, taken these
                              > experiences and incorporated in him,
                              > through proper action and behavior,
                              > the qualities of the Creator so that
                              > the sage became Self.
                              >
                              > This seems like A LOT OF HARD
                              > WORK! But in reality, it is just a
                              > giving up of all those qualities of
                              > personality that are not of the divine
                              > nature. It seems an agony at the
                              > time, but is nothing looking back,
                              > and why was that I clung to so
                              > important anyway, but it was.
                              >
                              >
                              > 55. Sri Bhagavan (Krishna) said:
                              > All desires of the mind (of ones very
                              > heart) are cast off, Oh Partha, by
                              > becoming the Self by working with
                              > the Self in steady wisdom.
                              >
                              > Contact with the Self in meditation
                              > brings a steady wisdom, Oh what to
                              > do about my present situation and
                              > how am I going to work this out,
                              > God's will be done, and so it goes
                              > with an answer coming to me so that
                              > I become more the Self by practicing
                              > proper behavior and letting the Self
                              > emerge in place of the misguided
                              > personality that I have begun with.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > 56. The mind is unshaken in
                              > adversity, and in pleasure, there is no
                              > latching onto and wanting to retain.
                              > Free from attachment, fear and anger
                              > is the sage poised in wisdom.
                              >
                              > The wisdom found in meditation
                              > allows the sage these characteristics.
                              > This is just something that happens,
                              > a symptom, not something that the
                              > sage tries to grasp and become, it just
                              > happens because one meditates.
                              >
                            • westwindwood2003
                              I do not know Sanskrit and so I know that I am not going to always get a translation correct. If I do make a mistake, I do not feel that I am causing any harm
                              Message 14 of 28 , Jun 14, 2008
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                                I do not know Sanskrit and so I know
                                that I am not going to always get a
                                translation correct. If I do make a
                                mistake, I do not feel that I am
                                causing any harm because I just wind
                                up commenting on a different aspect
                                of meditation than what the Gita is
                                referring to at that point. However,
                                if I do get it wrong on a particular
                                passage, I would like to hear about it
                                if someone knows I am wrong
                                because I might miss some facet of
                                meditation that I might not touch on
                                later that is important.

                                57. Life's many experiences evoke
                                thoughts and feelings. However,
                                rejoicing in the good and hatred of
                                the bad is not in the personality of
                                the person who dwells, resides, in
                                Wisdom.

                                Being with that Wisdom, the one on
                                the path feels the situation is not
                                defined as good or bad, but God's
                                will, and so petitions for the
                                Knowledge of right behavior to deal
                                wisely in the circumstance.

                                58. A tortoise withdraws head and
                                limbs when disturbed, and a Yogi,
                                when confronted with an attractive
                                sight or painful scene reflexively
                                pulls in to contemplate the situation
                                knowing a moment's reflection
                                brings Wisdom.

                                59. Seeing an object of desire, a
                                person remains abstinent upon
                                leaving the longing behind. Even a
                                hint of the desirable reaction drops
                                away from the person who perceives
                                the Supreme.
                              • westwindwood2003
                                60. The wise person strives for perfection; turbulent situations though, the chaos of the day, violently carries away the mind. OK, so don t hesitate to
                                Message 15 of 28 , Jun 18, 2008
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                                  60. The wise person strives for
                                  perfection; turbulent situations
                                  though, the chaos of the day,
                                  violently carries away the mind.

                                  OK, so don't hesitate to meditate!

                                  61. The yogi controls the chaos of
                                  the day, these thoughts restrained
                                  and joined together. Focus on God
                                  and the yogi's thoughts are settled.

                                  The turbulent thoughts of the yogi
                                  are allowed to surface in meditation,
                                  and the calming effect of the
                                  meditation experience affects a
                                  change in the mind (this just happens
                                  without any attempt at control). With
                                  the calming, the focus can them be
                                  brought to God, who then brings
                                  wisdom allowing the thoughts to be
                                  settled.

                                  62. Objects of the senses, (what
                                  causes the turbulent thoughts of a
                                  person) cause strong attachment
                                  because a person has the propensity
                                  for that particular object of the
                                  senses. From this attachment comes
                                  desire and from desire a kind of
                                  anger, of that is mine,
                                  possessiveness.

                                  Attachment caused by their own
                                  personality, or perhaps we could say
                                  from their previous karma gives
                                  material to work on in meditation.

                                  63. From anger comes delusion and
                                  from this delusion comes a forgetting
                                  of facts (memory of what really
                                  happened or how things are), and
                                  this loss of reason with impetuous
                                  behavior, results in death.

                                  Why am I thinking of a motorcycle
                                  going 110 mph on a windy country
                                  road? Actually, this could be most
                                  anything and usually results in a visit
                                  from a police officer, or at best
                                  recognition of out of control feelings
                                  that need to be worked on in
                                  meditation.
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