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[Meditation Society of America] Re: Sudden enlightenment

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  • Jeff Belyea
    The difficulty in any attempt to describe or ascribe attributes is that it can only be done so in a language that does not really apply to enlightenment. From
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 23, 2008
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      The difficulty in any attempt
      to describe or ascribe attributes
      is that it can only be done so
      in a language that does not
      really apply to enlightenment.

      From our mind/sense perception
      it is an experience - a sudden
      turning on of the light...in
      a timeless spaceless event.

      Only one who has "experienced"
      enightenment understands the
      new language that enlightenment
      spontaneously introduces.

      To write or speak to an audience
      who is interested in the subject
      but does not have direct knowledge,
      in language from the enlightened
      cul-de-sac, is more of the mind screw.

      Think of it as spontaneous -
      because that is as close as words
      can come. And it a way it is so.

      Clap on. Clap off.

      Jeff


      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sandeep chatterjee
      <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
      >
      > The need to ascribe attributes is the attempt of the mind/self to
      get a fix on this thingy which the mind/self itself has created i.e.
      Enlightenment.
      >
      > In the pursuit of the fixing is the very existence and perpetuation
      of the mind/self.
      >
      > All definings(and all ascribed attributes are definings) are
      confabulations of the known about the known.
      >
      > A cul-de-sac.
      >
      > For the known can never meet the unknown.
      >
      > Never can taste the unknowable.
      >
      > Whatever be the experience, no matter how profound, it's just
      projections of the known.
      >
      > Faced with the proposition that something is neither spontaneous
      nor a gradual causal process in time, the mind/self flounders with
      either a defensive reaction(after all the known has to seek to
      protect itself) or it poses the question......THEN WHAT.
      >
      > In the absence of further fuel for the known....... is
      it's .......poof.
      >
      > Which is neither spontaneous nor gradual.
      > :-)
      >
      > Aideen McKenna wrote:
      > > ‘Way back when this long
      > > conversation with Bob Rose got underway in 2001, someone
      (probably Bob) said
      > > something to the effect that we all start out in life as
      enlightened, but then
      > > we clutter ourselves up so completely that it takes considerable
      doing to clear
      > > away all the crud to let the light shine through again â€" I
      recall an
      > > analogy of cleaning a screen so as to allow the sun to shine
      through the
      > > window.  So as Sandeep says, enlightennment’s not an event.
      > > Aideen
      > >  
      > > From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:
      meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of sandeep
      chatterjee
      > > Sent: March 22, 2008 11:14 PM
      > > To: jeff@mindgoal. com
      > > Cc: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
      > > Subject: RE: [Meditation Society
      > > of America] Re: Sudden enlightenment
      > >  
      > > An experience can be spontaneous or a gradual
      > > enfolding within time.
      > > ''Enlighten ment' is not an experience, not a
      > > causal event within time.
      > > Thus being un-reference- able, neither the term spontaneous nor
      gradual can
      > > be attributed.
      > > Jeff Belyea wrote:
      > >> --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , sean
      tremblay
      > >> <bethjams9@ ..> wrote:
      > >>>
      > >>> Anybody have any thoughts on Spontaneous enlightenment?
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >> It's the only kind.
      > >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
      > >> ____________
      > >>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
      > >>> http://www.yahoo com/r/hs
      > >>>
      > >>
      > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
      > > Checked by AVG.
      > > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date:
      3/11/08 1:41 PM
      > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
      > > Checked by AVG.
      > > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date:
      3/11/08 1:41 PM
      > >
      >
    • sean tremblay
      So definition and understanding are two different things, our need to define becomes part of the Clutter ...
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 23, 2008
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        So definition and understanding are two different
        things, our need to define becomes part of the
        "Clutter"
        --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:

        > The need to ascribe attributes is the attempt of the
        > mind/self to get a fix on this thingy which the
        > mind/self itself has created i.e. Enlightenment.
        >
        > In the pursuit of the fixing is the very existence
        > and perpetuation of the mind/self.
        >
        > All defining(and all ascribed attributes are
        > defining) are confabulations of the known about the
        > known.
        >
        > A cul-de-sac.
        >
        > For the known can never meet the unknown.
        >
        > Never can taste the unknowable.
        >
        > Whatever be the experience, no matter how profound,
        > it's just projections of the known.
        >
        > Faced with the proposition that something is neither
        > spontaneous nor a gradual causal process in time,
        > the mind/self flounders with either a defensive
        > reaction(after all the known has to seek to protect
        > itself) or it poses the question......THEN WHAT.
        >
        > In the absence of further fuel for the known.......
        > is it's .......poof.
        >
        > Which is neither spontaneous nor gradual.
        > :-)
        >
        > Aideen McKenna wrote:
        > > ‘Way back when this long
        > > conversation with Bob Rose got underway in 2001,
        > someone (probably Bob) said
        > > something to the effect that we all start out in
        > life as enlightened, but then
        > > we clutter ourselves up so completely that it
        > takes considerable doing to clear
        > > away all the crud to let the light shine through
        > again – I recall an
        > > analogy of cleaning a screen so as to allow the
        > sun to shine through the
        > > window.  So as Sandeep says, enlightennment’s
        > not an event.
        > > Aideen
        > >  
        > > From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro
        > ups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyof
        > america@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of sandeep
        > chatterjee
        > > Sent: March 22, 2008 11:14 PM
        > > To: jeff@mindgoal. com
        > > Cc: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
        > > Subject: RE: [Meditation Society
        > > of America] Re: Sudden enlightenment
        > >  
        > > An experience can be spontaneous or a gradual
        > > enfolding within time.
        > > ''Enlighten ment' is not an
        > experience, not a
        > > causal event within time.
        > > Thus being un-reference- able, neither the term
        > spontaneous nor gradual can
        > > be attributed.
        > > Jeff Belyea wrote:
        > >> --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro
        > ups.com , sean tremblay
        > >> <bethjams9@. ..> wrote:
        > >>>
        > >>> Anybody have any thoughts on Spontaneous
        > enlightenment?
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >> It's the only kind.
        > >> ____________ _________ _________ _________
        > _________ _________ _
        > >> ____________
        > >>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
        > >>> http://www.yahoo com/r/hs
        > >>>
        > >>
        > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
        > > Checked by AVG.
        > > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 -
        > Release Date: 3/11/08 1:41 PM
        > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
        > > Checked by AVG.
        > > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 -
        > Release Date: 3/11/08 1:41 PM
        > >
        >
        >


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      • yeshwanthi vasudevan
        Sandeep, how can you be so confident? How can you be so confident that it is all just a dream? I wish I had your self-confidence, to make that statement
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 24, 2008
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          Sandeep, how can you be so confident? How can you be so confident that it is all just a dream? I wish I had your self-confidence, to make that statement without any shred of a doubt. If this is all just a dream, what will it take to wake me up? The traffic noise and the horning sounds of a million trucks at the same time?
          On a serious note: What will it take to wake me up?
          sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
          The need to ascribe attributes is the attempt of the mind/self to get a fix on this thingy which the mind/self itself has created i.e. Enlightenment.

          In the pursuit of the fixing is the very existence and perpetuation of the mind/self.

          All definings(and all ascribed attributes are definings) are confabulations of the known about the known.

          A cul-de-sac.

          For the known can never meet the unknown.

          Never can taste the unknowable.

          Whatever be the experience, no matter how profound, it&#39;s just projections of the known.

          Faced with the proposition that something is neither spontaneous nor a gradual causal process in time, the mind/self flounders with either a defensive reaction(after all the known has to seek to protect itself) or it poses the question.... ..THEN WHAT.

          In the absence of further fuel for the known....... is it&#39;s .......poof.

          Which is neither spontaneous nor gradual.
          :-)

          Aideen McKenna wrote:
          > ‘Way back when this long
          > conversation with Bob Rose got underway in 2001, someone (probably Bob) said
          > something to the effect that we all start out in life as enlightened, but then
          > we clutter ourselves up so completely that it takes considerable doing to clear
          > away all the crud to let the light shine through again – I recall an
          > analogy of cleaning a screen so as to allow the sun to shine through the
          > window.  So as Sandeep says, enlightennment’s not an event.
          > Aideen
          >  
          > From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of sandeep chatterjee
          > Sent: March 22, 2008 11:14 PM
          > To: jeff@mindgoal. com
          > Cc: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
          > Subject: RE: [Meditation Society
          > of America] Re: Sudden enlightenment
          >  
          > An experience can be spontaneous or a gradual
          > enfolding within time.
          > &#39;&#39;Enlighten ment&#39; is not an experience, not a
          > causal event within time.
          > Thus being un-reference- able, neither the term spontaneous nor gradual can
          > be attributed.
          > Jeff Belyea wrote:
          >> --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , sean tremblay
          >> <bethjams9@. ..> wrote:
          >>>
          >>> Anybody have any thoughts on Spontaneous enlightenment?
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >> It's the only kind.
          >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
          >> ____________
          >>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
          >>> http://www.yahoo. com/r/hs
          >>>
          >>
          > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
          > Checked by AVG.
          > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08 1:41 PM
          > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
          > Checked by AVG.
          > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08 1:41 PM
          >



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        • sean tremblay
          I ve never been to Butte Montana but I m pretty sure it exists ... ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 24, 2008
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            I've never been to Butte Montana but I'm pretty sure
            it exists
            --- yeshwanthi vasudevan <badgirl_nofear@...>
            wrote:

            > Sandeep, how can you be so confident? How can you be
            > so confident that it is all just a dream? I wish I
            > had your self-confidence, to make that statement
            > without any shred of a doubt. If this is all just a
            > dream, what will it take to wake me up? The traffic
            > noise and the horning sounds of a million trucks at
            > the same time?
            >
            > On a serious note: What will it take to wake me
            > up?
            > sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
            > The need to ascribe attributes is the
            > attempt of the mind/self to get a fix on this thingy
            > which the mind/self itself has created i.e.
            > Enlightenment.
            >
            > In the pursuit of the fixing is the very existence
            > and perpetuation of the mind/self.
            >
            > All definings(and all ascribed attributes are
            > definings) are confabulations of the known about the
            > known.
            >
            > A cul-de-sac.
            >
            > For the known can never meet the unknown.
            >
            > Never can taste the unknowable.
            >
            > Whatever be the experience, no matter how profound,
            > it's just projections of the known.
            >
            > Faced with the proposition that something is neither
            > spontaneous nor a gradual causal process in time,
            > the mind/self flounders with either a defensive
            > reaction(after all the known has to seek to protect
            > itself) or it poses the question......THEN WHAT.
            >
            > In the absence of further fuel for the known.......
            > is it's .......poof.
            >
            > Which is neither spontaneous nor gradual.
            > :-)
            >
            > Aideen McKenna wrote:
            > > ‘Way back when this long
            > > conversation with Bob Rose got underway in 2001,
            > someone (probably Bob) said
            > > something to the effect that we all start out in
            > life as enlightened, but then
            > > we clutter ourselves up so completely that it
            > takes considerable doing to clear
            > > away all the crud to let the light shine through
            > again – I recall an
            > > analogy of cleaning a screen so as to allow the
            > sun to shine through the
            > > window. So as Sandeep says, enlightennment’s
            > not an event.
            > > Aideen
            > > Â
            > > From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
            > [mailto: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro
            > ups.com ] On Behalf Of sandeep chatterjee
            > > Sent: March 22, 2008 11:14 PM
            > > To: jeff@mindgoal. com
            > > Cc: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
            > > Subject: RE: [Meditation Society
            > > of America] Re: Sudden enlightenment
            > > Â
            > > An experience can be spontaneous or a gradual
            > > enfolding within time.
            > > ''Enlighten ment' is not an
            > experience, not a
            > > causal event within time.
            > > Thus being un-reference- able, neither the term
            > spontaneous nor gradual can
            > > be attributed.
            > > Jeff Belyea wrote:
            > >> --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro
            > ups.com , sean tremblay
            > >> <bethjams9@. ..> wrote:
            > >>>
            > >>> Anybody have any thoughts on Spontaneous
            > enlightenment?
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >> It's the only kind.
            > >> ____________ _________ _________ _________
            > _________ _________ _
            > >> ____________
            > >>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
            > >>> http://www.yahoo com/r/hs
            > >>>
            > >>
            > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
            > > Checked by AVG.
            > > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 -
            > Release Date: 3/11/08 1:41 PM
            > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
            > > Checked by AVG.
            > > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 -
            > Release Date: 3/11/08 1:41 PM
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > 5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store N number of mails in your
            > inbox. Click here.



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