Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sudden enlightenment

Expand Messages
  • Aideen McKenna
    ‘Way back when this long conversation with Bob Rose got underway in 2001, someone (probably Bob) said something to the effect that we all start out in life
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 22 11:37 PM
    • 0 Attachment

      ‘Way back when this long conversation with Bob Rose got underway in 2001, someone (probably Bob) said something to the effect that we all start out in life as enlightened, but then we clutter ourselves up so completely that it takes considerable doing to clear away all the crud to let the light shine through again – I recall an analogy of cleaning a screen so as to allow the sun to shine through the window.  So as Sandeep says, enlightennment’s not an event.

      Aideen

       


      From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of sandeep chatterjee
      Sent: March 22, 2008 11:14 PM
      To: jeff@...
      Cc: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sudden enlightenment

       

      An experience can be spontaneous or a gradual enfolding within time.

      ''Enlighten ment' is not an experience, not a causal event within time.

      Thus being un-reference- able, neither the term spontaneous nor gradual can be attributed.

      Jeff Belyea wrote:

      > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , sean tremblay
      > <bethjams9@. ..> wrote:
      >>
      >> Anybody have any thoughts on Spontaneous enlightenment?
      >>
      >>
      >>
      > It's the only kind.
      > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
      > ____________
      >> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
      >> http://www.yahoo. com/r/hs
      >>
      >


      Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
      Checked by AVG.
      Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08 1:41 PM


      Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
      Checked by AVG.
      Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08 1:41 PM

    • sandeep chatterjee
      The need to ascribe attributes is the attempt of the mind/self to get a fix on this thingy which the mind/self itself has created i.e. Enlightenment. In the
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 23 3:24 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        The need to ascribe attributes is the attempt of the mind/self to get a fix on this thingy which the mind/self itself has created i.e. Enlightenment.

        In the pursuit of the fixing is the very existence and perpetuation of the mind/self.

        All definings(and all ascribed attributes are definings) are confabulations of the known about the known.

        A cul-de-sac.

        For the known can never meet the unknown.

        Never can taste the unknowable.

        Whatever be the experience, no matter how profound, it's just projections of the known.

        Faced with the proposition that something is neither spontaneous nor a gradual causal process in time, the mind/self flounders with either a defensive reaction(after all the known has to seek to protect itself) or it poses the question......THEN WHAT.

        In the absence of further fuel for the known....... is it's .......poof.

        Which is neither spontaneous nor gradual.
        :-)

        Aideen McKenna wrote:
        > ‘Way back when this long
        > conversation with Bob Rose got underway in 2001, someone (probably Bob) said
        > something to the effect that we all start out in life as enlightened, but then
        > we clutter ourselves up so completely that it takes considerable doing to clear
        > away all the crud to let the light shine through again – I recall an
        > analogy of cleaning a screen so as to allow the sun to shine through the
        > window.  So as Sandeep says, enlightennment’s not an event.
        > Aideen
        >  
        > From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of sandeep chatterjee
        > Sent: March 22, 2008 11:14 PM
        > To: jeff@mindgoal. com
        > Cc: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
        > Subject: RE: [Meditation Society
        > of America] Re: Sudden enlightenment
        >  
        > An experience can be spontaneous or a gradual
        > enfolding within time.
        > ''Enlighten ment' is not an experience, not a
        > causal event within time.
        > Thus being un-reference- able, neither the term spontaneous nor gradual can
        > be attributed.
        > Jeff Belyea wrote:
        >> --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , sean tremblay
        >> <bethjams9@. ..> wrote:
        >>>
        >>> Anybody have any thoughts on Spontaneous enlightenment?
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >> It's the only kind.
        >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
        >> ____________
        >>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
        >>> http://www.yahoo com/r/hs
        >>>
        >>
        > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
        > Checked by AVG.
        > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08 1:41 PM
        > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
        > Checked by AVG.
        > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08 1:41 PM
        >
      • Jeff Belyea
        The difficulty in any attempt to describe or ascribe attributes is that it can only be done so in a language that does not really apply to enlightenment. From
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 23 6:27 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          The difficulty in any attempt
          to describe or ascribe attributes
          is that it can only be done so
          in a language that does not
          really apply to enlightenment.

          From our mind/sense perception
          it is an experience - a sudden
          turning on of the light...in
          a timeless spaceless event.

          Only one who has "experienced"
          enightenment understands the
          new language that enlightenment
          spontaneously introduces.

          To write or speak to an audience
          who is interested in the subject
          but does not have direct knowledge,
          in language from the enlightened
          cul-de-sac, is more of the mind screw.

          Think of it as spontaneous -
          because that is as close as words
          can come. And it a way it is so.

          Clap on. Clap off.

          Jeff


          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sandeep chatterjee
          <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
          >
          > The need to ascribe attributes is the attempt of the mind/self to
          get a fix on this thingy which the mind/self itself has created i.e.
          Enlightenment.
          >
          > In the pursuit of the fixing is the very existence and perpetuation
          of the mind/self.
          >
          > All definings(and all ascribed attributes are definings) are
          confabulations of the known about the known.
          >
          > A cul-de-sac.
          >
          > For the known can never meet the unknown.
          >
          > Never can taste the unknowable.
          >
          > Whatever be the experience, no matter how profound, it's just
          projections of the known.
          >
          > Faced with the proposition that something is neither spontaneous
          nor a gradual causal process in time, the mind/self flounders with
          either a defensive reaction(after all the known has to seek to
          protect itself) or it poses the question......THEN WHAT.
          >
          > In the absence of further fuel for the known....... is
          it's .......poof.
          >
          > Which is neither spontaneous nor gradual.
          > :-)
          >
          > Aideen McKenna wrote:
          > > ‘Way back when this long
          > > conversation with Bob Rose got underway in 2001, someone
          (probably Bob) said
          > > something to the effect that we all start out in life as
          enlightened, but then
          > > we clutter ourselves up so completely that it takes considerable
          doing to clear
          > > away all the crud to let the light shine through again â€" I
          recall an
          > > analogy of cleaning a screen so as to allow the sun to shine
          through the
          > > window.  So as Sandeep says, enlightennment’s not an event.
          > > Aideen
          > >  
          > > From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:
          meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of sandeep
          chatterjee
          > > Sent: March 22, 2008 11:14 PM
          > > To: jeff@mindgoal. com
          > > Cc: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
          > > Subject: RE: [Meditation Society
          > > of America] Re: Sudden enlightenment
          > >  
          > > An experience can be spontaneous or a gradual
          > > enfolding within time.
          > > ''Enlighten ment' is not an experience, not a
          > > causal event within time.
          > > Thus being un-reference- able, neither the term spontaneous nor
          gradual can
          > > be attributed.
          > > Jeff Belyea wrote:
          > >> --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , sean
          tremblay
          > >> <bethjams9@ ..> wrote:
          > >>>
          > >>> Anybody have any thoughts on Spontaneous enlightenment?
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >> It's the only kind.
          > >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
          > >> ____________
          > >>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
          > >>> http://www.yahoo com/r/hs
          > >>>
          > >>
          > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
          > > Checked by AVG.
          > > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date:
          3/11/08 1:41 PM
          > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
          > > Checked by AVG.
          > > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date:
          3/11/08 1:41 PM
          > >
          >
        • sean tremblay
          So definition and understanding are two different things, our need to define becomes part of the Clutter ...
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 23 9:42 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            So definition and understanding are two different
            things, our need to define becomes part of the
            "Clutter"
            --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:

            > The need to ascribe attributes is the attempt of the
            > mind/self to get a fix on this thingy which the
            > mind/self itself has created i.e. Enlightenment.
            >
            > In the pursuit of the fixing is the very existence
            > and perpetuation of the mind/self.
            >
            > All defining(and all ascribed attributes are
            > defining) are confabulations of the known about the
            > known.
            >
            > A cul-de-sac.
            >
            > For the known can never meet the unknown.
            >
            > Never can taste the unknowable.
            >
            > Whatever be the experience, no matter how profound,
            > it's just projections of the known.
            >
            > Faced with the proposition that something is neither
            > spontaneous nor a gradual causal process in time,
            > the mind/self flounders with either a defensive
            > reaction(after all the known has to seek to protect
            > itself) or it poses the question......THEN WHAT.
            >
            > In the absence of further fuel for the known.......
            > is it's .......poof.
            >
            > Which is neither spontaneous nor gradual.
            > :-)
            >
            > Aideen McKenna wrote:
            > > ‘Way back when this long
            > > conversation with Bob Rose got underway in 2001,
            > someone (probably Bob) said
            > > something to the effect that we all start out in
            > life as enlightened, but then
            > > we clutter ourselves up so completely that it
            > takes considerable doing to clear
            > > away all the crud to let the light shine through
            > again – I recall an
            > > analogy of cleaning a screen so as to allow the
            > sun to shine through the
            > > window.  So as Sandeep says, enlightennment’s
            > not an event.
            > > Aideen
            > >  
            > > From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro
            > ups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyof
            > america@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of sandeep
            > chatterjee
            > > Sent: March 22, 2008 11:14 PM
            > > To: jeff@mindgoal. com
            > > Cc: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
            > > Subject: RE: [Meditation Society
            > > of America] Re: Sudden enlightenment
            > >  
            > > An experience can be spontaneous or a gradual
            > > enfolding within time.
            > > ''Enlighten ment' is not an
            > experience, not a
            > > causal event within time.
            > > Thus being un-reference- able, neither the term
            > spontaneous nor gradual can
            > > be attributed.
            > > Jeff Belyea wrote:
            > >> --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro
            > ups.com , sean tremblay
            > >> <bethjams9@. ..> wrote:
            > >>>
            > >>> Anybody have any thoughts on Spontaneous
            > enlightenment?
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >> It's the only kind.
            > >> ____________ _________ _________ _________
            > _________ _________ _
            > >> ____________
            > >>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
            > >>> http://www.yahoo com/r/hs
            > >>>
            > >>
            > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
            > > Checked by AVG.
            > > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 -
            > Release Date: 3/11/08 1:41 PM
            > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
            > > Checked by AVG.
            > > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 -
            > Release Date: 3/11/08 1:41 PM
            > >
            >
            >


            ____________________________________________________________________________________
            Looking for last minute shopping deals?
            Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
          • yeshwanthi vasudevan
            Sandeep, how can you be so confident? How can you be so confident that it is all just a dream? I wish I had your self-confidence, to make that statement
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 24 10:49 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              Sandeep, how can you be so confident? How can you be so confident that it is all just a dream? I wish I had your self-confidence, to make that statement without any shred of a doubt. If this is all just a dream, what will it take to wake me up? The traffic noise and the horning sounds of a million trucks at the same time?
              On a serious note: What will it take to wake me up?
              sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
              The need to ascribe attributes is the attempt of the mind/self to get a fix on this thingy which the mind/self itself has created i.e. Enlightenment.

              In the pursuit of the fixing is the very existence and perpetuation of the mind/self.

              All definings(and all ascribed attributes are definings) are confabulations of the known about the known.

              A cul-de-sac.

              For the known can never meet the unknown.

              Never can taste the unknowable.

              Whatever be the experience, no matter how profound, it&#39;s just projections of the known.

              Faced with the proposition that something is neither spontaneous nor a gradual causal process in time, the mind/self flounders with either a defensive reaction(after all the known has to seek to protect itself) or it poses the question.... ..THEN WHAT.

              In the absence of further fuel for the known....... is it&#39;s .......poof.

              Which is neither spontaneous nor gradual.
              :-)

              Aideen McKenna wrote:
              > ‘Way back when this long
              > conversation with Bob Rose got underway in 2001, someone (probably Bob) said
              > something to the effect that we all start out in life as enlightened, but then
              > we clutter ourselves up so completely that it takes considerable doing to clear
              > away all the crud to let the light shine through again – I recall an
              > analogy of cleaning a screen so as to allow the sun to shine through the
              > window.  So as Sandeep says, enlightennment’s not an event.
              > Aideen
              >  
              > From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of sandeep chatterjee
              > Sent: March 22, 2008 11:14 PM
              > To: jeff@mindgoal. com
              > Cc: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
              > Subject: RE: [Meditation Society
              > of America] Re: Sudden enlightenment
              >  
              > An experience can be spontaneous or a gradual
              > enfolding within time.
              > &#39;&#39;Enlighten ment&#39; is not an experience, not a
              > causal event within time.
              > Thus being un-reference- able, neither the term spontaneous nor gradual can
              > be attributed.
              > Jeff Belyea wrote:
              >> --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , sean tremblay
              >> <bethjams9@. ..> wrote:
              >>>
              >>> Anybody have any thoughts on Spontaneous enlightenment?
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >> It's the only kind.
              >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
              >> ____________
              >>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
              >>> http://www.yahoo. com/r/hs
              >>>
              >>
              > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
              > Checked by AVG.
              > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08 1:41 PM
              > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
              > Checked by AVG.
              > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08 1:41 PM
              >



              5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store N number of mails in your inbox. Click here.

            • sean tremblay
              I ve never been to Butte Montana but I m pretty sure it exists ... ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 24 12:47 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                I've never been to Butte Montana but I'm pretty sure
                it exists
                --- yeshwanthi vasudevan <badgirl_nofear@...>
                wrote:

                > Sandeep, how can you be so confident? How can you be
                > so confident that it is all just a dream? I wish I
                > had your self-confidence, to make that statement
                > without any shred of a doubt. If this is all just a
                > dream, what will it take to wake me up? The traffic
                > noise and the horning sounds of a million trucks at
                > the same time?
                >
                > On a serious note: What will it take to wake me
                > up?
                > sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
                > The need to ascribe attributes is the
                > attempt of the mind/self to get a fix on this thingy
                > which the mind/self itself has created i.e.
                > Enlightenment.
                >
                > In the pursuit of the fixing is the very existence
                > and perpetuation of the mind/self.
                >
                > All definings(and all ascribed attributes are
                > definings) are confabulations of the known about the
                > known.
                >
                > A cul-de-sac.
                >
                > For the known can never meet the unknown.
                >
                > Never can taste the unknowable.
                >
                > Whatever be the experience, no matter how profound,
                > it's just projections of the known.
                >
                > Faced with the proposition that something is neither
                > spontaneous nor a gradual causal process in time,
                > the mind/self flounders with either a defensive
                > reaction(after all the known has to seek to protect
                > itself) or it poses the question......THEN WHAT.
                >
                > In the absence of further fuel for the known.......
                > is it's .......poof.
                >
                > Which is neither spontaneous nor gradual.
                > :-)
                >
                > Aideen McKenna wrote:
                > > ‘Way back when this long
                > > conversation with Bob Rose got underway in 2001,
                > someone (probably Bob) said
                > > something to the effect that we all start out in
                > life as enlightened, but then
                > > we clutter ourselves up so completely that it
                > takes considerable doing to clear
                > > away all the crud to let the light shine through
                > again – I recall an
                > > analogy of cleaning a screen so as to allow the
                > sun to shine through the
                > > window. So as Sandeep says, enlightennment’s
                > not an event.
                > > Aideen
                > > Â
                > > From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
                > [mailto: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro
                > ups.com ] On Behalf Of sandeep chatterjee
                > > Sent: March 22, 2008 11:14 PM
                > > To: jeff@mindgoal. com
                > > Cc: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
                > > Subject: RE: [Meditation Society
                > > of America] Re: Sudden enlightenment
                > > Â
                > > An experience can be spontaneous or a gradual
                > > enfolding within time.
                > > ''Enlighten ment' is not an
                > experience, not a
                > > causal event within time.
                > > Thus being un-reference- able, neither the term
                > spontaneous nor gradual can
                > > be attributed.
                > > Jeff Belyea wrote:
                > >> --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro
                > ups.com , sean tremblay
                > >> <bethjams9@. ..> wrote:
                > >>>
                > >>> Anybody have any thoughts on Spontaneous
                > enlightenment?
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >> It's the only kind.
                > >> ____________ _________ _________ _________
                > _________ _________ _
                > >> ____________
                > >>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                > >>> http://www.yahoo com/r/hs
                > >>>
                > >>
                > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
                > > Checked by AVG.
                > > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 -
                > Release Date: 3/11/08 1:41 PM
                > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
                > > Checked by AVG.
                > > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 -
                > Release Date: 3/11/08 1:41 PM
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > 5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store N number of mails in your
                > inbox. Click here.



                ____________________________________________________________________________________
                Looking for last minute shopping deals?
                Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.