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Re: Answers to Unanswerable Questions By Swami Sivananda

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  • medit8ionsociety
    ... Large snip ... Yo Papajeff, I posted this having again recently run into a common response I find when people just begin their meditation practice. As an
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 14, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      "Jeff Belyea" <jeff@...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
      > <no_reply@> wrote:
      > >
      > > When and why has God created the world ?
      > > Why were we created and put to this miserable and pitiable plight ?
      > > How did Avidya (ignorance) arise in us ?
      > > When did Karma begin ?
      > > How could Avidya (ignorance) or Maya exist in the Supreme Absolute
      > Light ?
      > > Why did the formless assume forms ?
      > > Why is there evil in this world ?
      > >
      > > Questions like these are Ati-prasna or
      > > transcendental queries - for which you
      > > will not get an answer even if you rack
      > > your brain for million of years. Answers
      > > to these questions cannot be understood
      > > with your intellect. You can understand
      > > it only with your intuition.

      Large snip

      >
      > Thanks, Bob. Really enjoyed
      > this reminder.
      >
      > Jeff
      >
      Yo Papajeff,
      I posted this having again recently run
      into a common response I find when people
      just begin their meditation practice. As an
      example, they may come to meditation after
      their physician recommends it as a beneficial
      part of their quest to effectively improve
      their health, but soon find that they are gaining
      insights they have never before pondered. And
      before you know it, they are deep into asking
      ultimate (and "unanswerable") questions of life.
      But, as it is said, you have to have an empty
      cup before it can fill with anything else, and
      letting your mind go overboard with these type
      questions, and trying to find answers, only
      serves to further crowd the cup with what is
      already filling it, which Kir Li Molari has
      so aptly cited as "Words! Words! Words!". So,
      as is often the case, Swami Sivananda has
      given good pointers as to how to handle this
      common situation. But that isn't surprising
      as he was able to summarize his 350+ books
      of spiritual instruction with just 4 words...
      "Be good. Do good." And that leaves plenty of
      room in ones cup for real wisdom to fill it up.
      Peace and blessings,
      Bob
    • medit8ionsociety
      ... perceive it as crappy because we can t see the big picture? The ancient Hebrews thought there was once a Garden of Eden i.e. a Golden Age before their
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 14, 2008
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        "Aideen McKenna" <aideenmck@...> wrote:
        >
        > Or maybe the world is perfect & we mistakenly
        perceive it as crappy because we can't see the
        big picture? The ancient Hebrews thought there
        was once a Garden of Eden i.e. a Golden Age before
        their time. Don't people always tend to think that
        "things used to be better back when"? Jane Goodall was
        saddened to see that after many years of living
        with and studying apes, she was witness to an
        all-out war between two large groups who apparently
        perceived themselves as distinct tribes.
        She would not have believed it possible unless
        she'd seen it with her own eyes. It wasn't a sudden
        flare-up of anger, it was a real war, involving
        preparation. Maybe there's an evolutionary step
        happening in that forest?
        >
        > Just my turn to think out loud, Sean.
        >
        > Aideen
        >
        Yo Aideen,
        I hadn't heard about the "war" and would like to know
        more about it. If you could point to a site where it's
        discussed, I'd appreciate it. As you point out, maybe this
        is an evolutionary event we're witnessing. Perhaps soon
        we may also see humans evolve past the "war" stage.
        Peace and blessings,
        Bob _____
        >
        > From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean
        > tremblay
        > Sent: March 14, 2008 4:17 AM
        > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Answers to Unanswerable
        > Questions By Swami Sivananda
        >
        >
        >
        > As to the question of Karma and when did it arise? I like the
        parable of
        > Adem and Eve. When they ate of the tree of knowlege of good and
        evil, they
        > became aware of thier nakedness ect. Which says to me at that point
        > humanity a a species became "Self aware" from that point they had to
        leave
        > the "Garden of Eden" a blissfull state of unity, and from that
        moment on we
        > have had to "Toil" or struggle with Karmic actions and wiegh the "Good"
        > against the "Bad". This struggle causes pain and disapointment. I do
        > believe that we were brought into a perfect world made crappy by
        thoughts
        > actions and false perceptions.
        >
        > Just my humble take on Stuff.
        >
        > Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In HYPERLINK
        >
        "mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica%40yahoogroups.com"meditationsocietyof-ame
        > rica@..., medit8ionsociety
        > <no_reply@> wrote:
        > >
        > > When and why has God created the world ?
        > > Why were we created and put to this miserable and pitiable plight ?
        > > How did Avidya (ignorance) arise in us ?
        > > When did Karma begin ?
        > > How could Avidya (ignorance) or Maya exist in the Supreme Absolute
        > Light ?
        > > Why did the formless assume forms ?
        > > Why is there evil in this world ?
        > >
        > > Questions like these are Ati-prasna or
        > > transcendental queries - for which you
        > > will not get an answer even if you rack
        > > your brain for million of years. Answers
        > > to these questions cannot be understood
        > > with your intellect. You can understand
        > > it only with your intuition.
        > >
        > > It involves the understanding of the Ultimate
        > > Principle, the Intelligence that is behind
        > > and beyond these questions, the Cause of all
        > > causes, the Subject of all objects. It cannot
        > > be known as object. And, when the subject
        > > (Self or Atman) knows Itself, speech and
        > > thought cease. The questioner and question
        > > vanish in the quest. The doubt disappears in
        > > the doubter. In that Supreme Silence, the problem
        > > is inexpressibly solved! The riddle is solved;
        > > but speech is baffled - and the question remains
        > > unanswerable.
        > >
        > > If a small son questions his father, "Papa, how
        > > did you procreate me ?", what answer will Papa
        > > give ? He will simply say, "Wait. When you become
        > > a man, you will understand this point". This is
        > > exactly the case with new aspirants in whom the
        > > Light is trying to shine forth. Do not put the
        > > cart before the horse. Don't bother about why
        > > creation came into being, but try to know the
        > > Creator! Take creation for what it is and try to
        > > transcend it. This is wisdom. Trying to probe
        > > intellectually into the mystery is only buying
        > > psychological distress.
        > >
        > > There is no 'Why ?' in respect of transcendental
        > > matters. 'Why ?' is only for worldly things. Reason
        > > is finite and frail. God only knows the 'Why ?'.
        > > Realize the Atma. Then you will get the answers.
        > > Then you will know the origin and nature of EVERYTHING.
        > >
        > > At the present moment, apply yourself to solid
        > > Sadhana (spiritual practices) in earnestness
        > > and remove Mala (impurities like lust, greed,
        > > hatred, anger, jealousy, etc.), Vikshepa (the
        > > tossing of mind) and Avarana (veil of ignorance).
        > > Do not enter into vain discussions and arguments
        > > on such matters.
        > >
        >
        > Thanks, Bob. Really enjoyed
        > this reminder.
        >
        > Jeff
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > _____
        >
        > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
        HYPERLINK
        >
        "http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8H
        > DtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20"Try it now.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > Checked by AVG.
        > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08
        > 1:41 PM
        >
        >
        >
        > No virus found in this outgoing message.
        > Checked by AVG.
        > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08
        > 1:41 PM
        >
      • Aideen McKenna
        I found this just now ā€“ not as large a slaughter as I remembered from the 1970s, but enough, & it went on for 4 years, which Iā€™d forgotten. HYPERLINK
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 14, 2008
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          I found this just now – not as large a slaughter as I remembered from the 1970s, but enough, & it went on for 4 years, which I’d forgotten.

          http://www.mc.maricopa.edu/dept/d10/asb/anthro2003/origins/goodall.html    

           


          From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of medit8ionsociety
          Sent: March 14, 2008 5:45 PM
          To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Answers to Unanswerable Questions By Swami S

           

          "Aideen McKenna" <aideenmck@. ..> wrote:

          >
          > Or maybe the world is perfect & we mistakenly
          perceive it as crappy because we can't see the
          big picture? The ancient Hebrews thought there
          was once a Garden of Eden i.e. a Golden Age before
          their time. Don't people always tend to think that
          "things used to be better back when"? Jane Goodall was
          saddened to see that after many years of living
          with and studying apes, she was witness to an
          all-out war between two large groups who apparently
          perceived themselves as distinct tribes.
          She would not have believed it possible unless
          she'd seen it with her own eyes. It wasn't a sudden
          flare-up of anger, it was a real war, involving
          preparation. Maybe there's an evolutionary step
          happening in that forest?
          >
          > Just my turn to think out loud, Sean.
          >
          > Aideen
          >
          Yo Aideen,
          I hadn't heard about the "war" and would like to know
          more about it. If you could point to a site where it's
          discussed, I'd appreciate it. As you point out, maybe this
          is an evolutionary event we're witnessing. Perhaps soon
          we may also see humans evolve past the "war" stage.
          Peace and blessings,
          Bob _____
          >
          > From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
          > [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com]
          On Behalf Of sean
          > tremblay
          > Sent: March 14, 2008 4:17 AM
          > To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
          > Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of
          w:st="on">America ] Re: Answers to Unanswerable
          > Questions By Swami Sivananda
          >
          >
          >
          > As to the question of Karma and when did it arise? I like the
          parable of
          > Adem and Eve. When they ate of the tree of knowlege of good and
          evil, they
          > became aware of thier nakedness ect. Which says to me at that point
          > humanity a a species became "Self aware" from that point they
          had to
          leave
          > the "Garden of Eden" a blissfull state of unity, and from that
          moment on we
          > have had to "Toil" or struggle with Karmic actions and wiegh the
          "Good"
          > against the "Bad". This struggle causes pain and disapointment.
          I do
          > believe that we were brought into a perfect world made crappy by
          thoughts
          > actions and false perceptions.
          >
          > Just my humble take on Stuff.
          >
          > Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In HYPERLINK
          >
          "mailto:meditations ocietyofamerica% 40yahoogroups. com"meditationso cietyof-ame
          > rica@..., medit8ionsociety
          > <no_reply@> wrote:
          > >
          > > When and why has God created the world ?
          > > Why were we created and put to this miserable and pitiable plight ?
          > > How did Avidya (ignorance) arise in us ?
          > > When did Karma begin ?
          > > How could Avidya (ignorance) or Maya exist in the Supreme Absolute
          > Light ?
          > > Why did the formless assume forms ?
          > > Why is there evil in this world ?
          > >
          > > Questions like these are Ati-prasna or
          > > transcendental queries - for which you
          > > will not get an answer even if you rack
          > > your brain for million of years. Answers
          > > to these questions cannot be understood
          > > with your intellect. You can understand
          > > it only with your intuition.
          > >
          > > It involves the understanding of the Ultimate
          > > Principle, the Intelligence that is behind
          > > and beyond these questions, the Cause of all
          > > causes, the Subject of all objects. It cannot
          > > be known as object. And, when the subject
          > > (Self or Atman) knows Itself, speech and
          > > thought cease. The questioner and question
          > > vanish in the quest. The doubt disappears in
          > > the doubter. In that Supreme Silence, the problem
          > > is inexpressibly solved! The riddle is solved;
          > > but speech is baffled - and the question remains
          > > unanswerable.
          > >
          > > If a small son questions his father, "Papa, how
          > > did you procreate me ?", what answer will Papa
          > > give ? He will simply say, "Wait. When you become
          > > a man, you will understand this point". This is
          > > exactly the case with new aspirants in whom the
          > > Light is trying to shine forth. Do not put the
          > > cart before the horse. Don't bother about why
          > > creation came into being, but try to know the
          > > Creator! Take creation for what it is and try to
          > > transcend it. This is wisdom. Trying to probe
          > > intellectually into the mystery is only buying
          > > psychological distress.
          > >
          > > There is no 'Why ?' in respect of transcendental
          > > matters. 'Why ?' is only for worldly things. Reason
          > > is finite and frail. God only knows the 'Why ?'.
          > > Realize the Atma. Then you will get the answers.
          > > Then you will know the origin and nature of EVERYTHING.
          > >
          > > At the present moment, apply yourself to solid
          > > Sadhana (spiritual practices) in earnestness
          > > and remove Mala (impurities like lust, greed,
          > > hatred, anger, jealousy, etc.), Vikshepa (the
          > > tossing of mind) and Avarana (veil of ignorance).
          > > Do not enter into vain discussions and arguments
          > > on such matters.
          > >
          >
          > Thanks, Bob. Really enjoyed
          > this reminder.
          >
          > Jeff
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > _____
          >
          > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
          HYPERLINK
          >
          "http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=51733/ *http:/mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8H
          > DtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ% 20"Try it now.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > No virus found in this incoming message.
          > Checked by AVG.
          > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08
          > 1:41 PM
          >
          >
          >
          > No virus found in this outgoing message.
          > Checked by AVG.
          > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08
          > 1:41 PM
          >


          No virus found in this incoming message.
          Checked by AVG.
          Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08 1:41 PM


          No virus found in this outgoing message.
          Checked by AVG.
          Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08 1:41 PM

        • medit8ionsociety
          ... from the ... http://www.mc.maricopa.edu/dept/d10/asb/anthro2003/origins/goodall.html htt ... Amazing! I had no idea that chimps had the potential to be
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 14, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Aideen McKenna"
            <aideenmck@...> wrote:
            >
            > I found this just now Ā– not as large a slaughter as I remembered
            from the
            > 1970s, but enough, & it went on for 4 years, which I'd forgotten.
            >
            > HYPERLINK
            >
            "http://www.mc.maricopa.edu/dept/d10/asb/anthro2003/origins/goodall.html"htt
            > p://www.mc.maricopa.edu/dept/d10/asb/anthro2003/origins/goodall.html
            >
            Amazing! I had no idea that chimps had the potential
            to be just as savage as we are. I don't want to be
            judgmental, but (unfortunately?!) they still have a long
            way to go until they match what goes on in Philly
            every day! And that's why the need to get Meditation
            In Education, is the #1 hope and project of the Meditation
            Society of America.
            Peace and blessings,
            Bob
            > _____
            >
            > From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            > medit8ionsociety
            > Sent: March 14, 2008 5:45 PM
            > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Answers to Unanswerable
            > Questions By Swami S
            >
            >
            >
            > "Aideen McKenna" <aideenmck@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Or maybe the world is perfect & we mistakenly
            > perceive it as crappy because we can't see the
            > big picture? The ancient Hebrews thought there
            > was once a Garden of Eden i.e. a Golden Age before
            > their time. Don't people always tend to think that
            > "things used to be better back when"? Jane Goodall was
            > saddened to see that after many years of living
            > with and studying apes, she was witness to an
            > all-out war between two large groups who apparently
            > perceived themselves as distinct tribes.
            > She would not have believed it possible unless
            > she'd seen it with her own eyes. It wasn't a sudden
            > flare-up of anger, it was a real war, involving
            > preparation. Maybe there's an evolutionary step
            > happening in that forest?
            > >
            > > Just my turn to think out loud, Sean.
            > >
            > > Aideen
            > >
            > Yo Aideen,
            > I hadn't heard about the "war" and would like to know
            > more about it. If you could point to a site where it's
            > discussed, I'd appreciate it. As you point out, maybe this
            > is an evolutionary event we're witnessing. Perhaps soon
            > we may also see humans evolve past the "war" stage.
            > Peace and blessings,
            > Bob _____
            > >
            > > From: HYPERLINK
            >
            "mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica%40yahoogroups.com"meditationsocietyof-ame
            > rica@...
            > > [mailto:HYPERLINK
            >
            "mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica%40yahoogroups.com"meditationsocietyof-ame
            > rica@...] On Behalf Of sean
            > > tremblay
            > > Sent: March 14, 2008 4:17 AM
            > > To: HYPERLINK
            >
            "mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica%40yahoogroups.com"meditationsocietyof-ame
            > rica@...
            > > Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Answers to
            Unanswerable
            > > Questions By Swami Sivananda
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > As to the question of Karma and when did it arise? I like the
            > parable of
            > > Adem and Eve. When they ate of the tree of knowlege of good and
            > evil, they
            > > became aware of thier nakedness ect. Which says to me at that point
            > > humanity a a species became "Self aware" from that point they had to
            > leave
            > > the "Garden of Eden" a blissfull state of unity, and from that
            > moment on we
            > > have had to "Toil" or struggle with Karmic actions and wiegh the
            "Good"
            > > against the "Bad". This struggle causes pain and disapointment. I do
            > > believe that we were brought into a perfect world made crappy by
            > thoughts
            > > actions and false perceptions.
            > >
            > > Just my humble take on Stuff.
            > >
            > > Jeff Belyea <jeff@> wrote:
            > >
            > > --- In HYPERLINK
            > >
            >
            "mailto:meditations-ocietyofamerica%-40yahoogroups.-com"meditationso-cietyof
            > -ame
            > > rica@, medit8ionsociety
            > > <no_reply@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > When and why has God created the world ?
            > > > Why were we created and put to this miserable and pitiable plight ?
            > > > How did Avidya (ignorance) arise in us ?
            > > > When did Karma begin ?
            > > > How could Avidya (ignorance) or Maya exist in the Supreme Absolute
            > > Light ?
            > > > Why did the formless assume forms ?
            > > > Why is there evil in this world ?
            > > >
            > > > Questions like these are Ati-prasna or
            > > > transcendental queries - for which you
            > > > will not get an answer even if you rack
            > > > your brain for million of years. Answers
            > > > to these questions cannot be understood
            > > > with your intellect. You can understand
            > > > it only with your intuition.
            > > >
            > > > It involves the understanding of the Ultimate
            > > > Principle, the Intelligence that is behind
            > > > and beyond these questions, the Cause of all
            > > > causes, the Subject of all objects. It cannot
            > > > be known as object. And, when the subject
            > > > (Self or Atman) knows Itself, speech and
            > > > thought cease. The questioner and question
            > > > vanish in the quest. The doubt disappears in
            > > > the doubter. In that Supreme Silence, the problem
            > > > is inexpressibly solved! The riddle is solved;
            > > > but speech is baffled - and the question remains
            > > > unanswerable.
            > > >
            > > > If a small son questions his father, "Papa, how
            > > > did you procreate me ?", what answer will Papa
            > > > give ? He will simply say, "Wait. When you become
            > > > a man, you will understand this point". This is
            > > > exactly the case with new aspirants in whom the
            > > > Light is trying to shine forth. Do not put the
            > > > cart before the horse. Don't bother about why
            > > > creation came into being, but try to know the
            > > > Creator! Take creation for what it is and try to
            > > > transcend it. This is wisdom. Trying to probe
            > > > intellectually into the mystery is only buying
            > > > psychological distress.
            > > >
            > > > There is no 'Why ?' in respect of transcendental
            > > > matters. 'Why ?' is only for worldly things. Reason
            > > > is finite and frail. God only knows the 'Why ?'.
            > > > Realize the Atma. Then you will get the answers.
            > > > Then you will know the origin and nature of EVERYTHING.
            > > >
            > > > At the present moment, apply yourself to solid
            > > > Sadhana (spiritual practices) in earnestness
            > > > and remove Mala (impurities like lust, greed,
            > > > hatred, anger, jealousy, etc.), Vikshepa (the
            > > > tossing of mind) and Avarana (veil of ignorance).
            > > > Do not enter into vain discussions and arguments
            > > > on such matters.
            > > >
            > >
            > > Thanks, Bob. Really enjoyed
            > > this reminder.
            > >
            > > Jeff
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > _____
            > >
            > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
            > HYPERLINK
            > >
            > "HYPERLINK
            >
            "http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8H
            >
            "http://us.rd.-yahoo.com/-evt=51733/-*http:/mobile.-yahoo.com/-;_ylt=Ahu06i6
            > 2sR-8H
            > > DtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%-20"Try it now.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > > Checked by AVG.
            > > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date:
            3/11/08
            > > 1:41 PM
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
            > > Checked by AVG.
            > > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date:
            3/11/08
            > > 1:41 PM
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > Checked by AVG.
            > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08
            > 1:41 PM
            >
            >
            >
            > No virus found in this outgoing message.
            > Checked by AVG.
            > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08
            > 1:41 PM
            >
          • Balasubramanian Radhakrishnan Kumar
            One must find out who he is, before he enquires about God and the world - Bhagavan Ramana Maharishi ...
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 14, 2008
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              One must find out who he is, before he enquires about God and the world - Bhagavan Ramana Maharishi
              ________________________________
              > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
              > From: no_reply@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 03:06:30 +0000
              > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Answers to Unanswerable Questions By Swami S
              >
              >
              > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Aideen McKenna"
              > wrote:
              >>
              >> I found this just now ā€“ not as large a slaughter as I remembered
              > from the
              >> 1970s, but enough, & it went on for 4 years, which I'd forgotten.
              >>
              >> HYPERLINK
              >>
              > "http://www.mc.maricopa.edu/dept/d10/asb/anthro2003/origins/goodall.html"htt
              >> p://www.mc.maricopa.edu/dept/d10/asb/anthro2003/origins/goodall.html
              >>
              > Amazing! I had no idea that chimps had the potential
              > to be just as savage as we are. I don't want to be
              > judgmental, but (unfortunately?!) they still have a long
              > way to go until they match what goes on in Philly
              > every day! And that's why the need to get Meditation
              > In Education, is the #1 hope and project of the Meditation
              > Society of America.
              > Peace and blessings,
              > Bob
              >> _____
              >>
              >> From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
              >> [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
              >> medit8ionsociety
              >> Sent: March 14, 2008 5:45 PM
              >> To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
              >> Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Answers to Unanswerable
              >> Questions By Swami S
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> "Aideen McKenna" wrote:
              >>>
              >>> Or maybe the world is perfect & we mistakenly
              >> perceive it as crappy because we can't see the
              >> big picture? The ancient Hebrews thought there
              >> was once a Garden of Eden i.e. a Golden Age before
              >> their time. Don't people always tend to think that
              >> "things used to be better back when"? Jane Goodall was
              >> saddened to see that after many years of living
              >> with and studying apes, she was witness to an
              >> all-out war between two large groups who apparently
              >> perceived themselves as distinct tribes.
              >> She would not have believed it possible unless
              >> she'd seen it with her own eyes. It wasn't a sudden
              >> flare-up of anger, it was a real war, involving
              >> preparation. Maybe there's an evolutionary step
              >> happening in that forest?
              >>>
              >>> Just my turn to think out loud, Sean.
              >>>
              >>> Aideen
              >>>
              >> Yo Aideen,
              >> I hadn't heard about the "war" and would like to know
              >> more about it. If you could point to a site where it's
              >> discussed, I'd appreciate it. As you point out, maybe this
              >> is an evolutionary event we're witnessing. Perhaps soon
              >> we may also see humans evolve past the "war" stage.
              >> Peace and blessings,
              >> Bob _____
              >>>
              >>> From: HYPERLINK
              >>
              > "mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica%40yahoogroups.com"meditationsocietyof-ame
              >> rica@...
              >>> [mailto:HYPERLINK
              >>
              > "mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica%40yahoogroups.com"meditationsocietyof-ame
              >> rica@...] On Behalf Of sean
              >>> tremblay
              >>> Sent: March 14, 2008 4:17 AM
              >>> To: HYPERLINK
              >>
              > "mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica%40yahoogroups.com"meditationsocietyof-ame
              >> rica@...
              >>> Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Answers to
              > Unanswerable
              >>> Questions By Swami Sivananda
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> As to the question of Karma and when did it arise? I like the
              >> parable of
              >>> Adem and Eve. When they ate of the tree of knowlege of good and
              >> evil, they
              >>> became aware of thier nakedness ect. Which says to me at that point
              >>> humanity a a species became "Self aware" from that point they had to
              >> leave
              >>> the "Garden of Eden" a blissfull state of unity, and from that
              >> moment on we
              >>> have had to "Toil" or struggle with Karmic actions and wiegh the
              > "Good"
              >>> against the "Bad". This struggle causes pain and disapointment. I do
              >>> believe that we were brought into a perfect world made crappy by
              >> thoughts
              >>> actions and false perceptions.
              >>>
              >>> Just my humble take on Stuff.
              >>>
              >>> Jeff Belyea wrote:
              >>>
              >>> --- In HYPERLINK
              >>>
              >>
              > "mailto:meditations-ocietyofamerica%-40yahoogroups.-com"meditationso-cietyof
              >> -ame
              >>> rica@, medit8ionsociety
              >>> wrote:
              >>>>
              >>>> When and why has God created the world ?
              >>>> Why were we created and put to this miserable and pitiable plight ?
              >>>> How did Avidya (ignorance) arise in us ?
              >>>> When did Karma begin ?
              >>>> How could Avidya (ignorance) or Maya exist in the Supreme Absolute
              >>> Light ?
              >>>> Why did the formless assume forms ?
              >>>> Why is there evil in this world ?
              >>>>
              >>>> Questions like these are Ati-prasna or
              >>>> transcendental queries - for which you
              >>>> will not get an answer even if you rack
              >>>> your brain for million of years. Answers
              >>>> to these questions cannot be understood
              >>>> with your intellect. You can understand
              >>>> it only with your intuition.
              >>>>
              >>>> It involves the understanding of the Ultimate
              >>>> Principle, the Intelligence that is behind
              >>>> and beyond these questions, the Cause of all
              >>>> causes, the Subject of all objects. It cannot
              >>>> be known as object. And, when the subject
              >>>> (Self or Atman) knows Itself, speech and
              >>>> thought cease. The questioner and question
              >>>> vanish in the quest. The doubt disappears in
              >>>> the doubter. In that Supreme Silence, the problem
              >>>> is inexpressibly solved! The riddle is solved;
              >>>> but speech is baffled - and the question remains
              >>>> unanswerable.
              >>>>
              >>>> If a small son questions his father, "Papa, how
              >>>> did you procreate me ?", what answer will Papa
              >>>> give ? He will simply say, "Wait. When you become
              >>>> a man, you will understand this point". This is
              >>>> exactly the case with new aspirants in whom the
              >>>> Light is trying to shine forth. Do not put the
              >>>> cart before the horse. Don't bother about why
              >>>> creation came into being, but try to know the
              >>>> Creator! Take creation for what it is and try to
              >>>> transcend it. This is wisdom. Trying to probe
              >>>> intellectually into the mystery is only buying
              >>>> psychological distress.
              >>>>
              >>>> There is no 'Why ?' in respect of transcendental
              >>>> matters. 'Why ?' is only for worldly things. Reason
              >>>> is finite and frail. God only knows the 'Why ?'.
              >>>> Realize the Atma. Then you will get the answers.
              >>>> Then you will know the origin and nature of EVERYTHING.
              >>>>
              >>>> At the present moment, apply yourself to solid
              >>>> Sadhana (spiritual practices) in earnestness
              >>>> and remove Mala (impurities like lust, greed,
              >>>> hatred, anger, jealousy, etc.), Vikshepa (the
              >>>> tossing of mind) and Avarana (veil of ignorance).
              >>>> Do not enter into vain discussions and arguments
              >>>> on such matters.
              >>>>
              >>>
              >>> Thanks, Bob. Really enjoyed
              >>> this reminder.
              >>>
              >>> Jeff
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> _____
              >>>
              >>> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
              >> HYPERLINK
              >>>
              >> "HYPERLINK
              >>
              > "http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8H
              >>
              > "http://us.rd.-yahoo.com/-evt=51733/-*http:/mobile.-yahoo.com/-;_ylt=Ahu06i6
              >> 2sR-8H
              >>> DtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%-20"Try it now.
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> No virus found in this incoming message.
              >>> Checked by AVG.
              >>> Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date:
              > 3/11/08
              >>> 1:41 PM
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
              >>> Checked by AVG.
              >>> Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date:
              > 3/11/08
              >>> 1:41 PM
              >>>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> No virus found in this incoming message.
              >> Checked by AVG.
              >> Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08
              >> 1:41 PM
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> No virus found in this outgoing message.
              >> Checked by AVG.
              >> Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08
              >> 1:41 PM
              >>
              >
              >
              >

              _________________________________________________________________
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            • sean tremblay
              Aideen, I I agree completely I often wondered what the origin of war is, It seems that we and our closest cousins the Chimps are the few animals that wage war
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 15, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Aideen,
                I I agree completely
                I often wondered what the origin of war is, It seems
                that we and our closest cousins the Chimps are the few
                animals that wage war for territory, The question is
                is it Instict on a hard wired evolutionary sense or is
                it instinct on a softer social evolutionary sense.
                Did it serve a genuine survival purpose or not, I
                could go on for hours pondering WAR. There is a
                common mythology of a golden time when humanity was in
                sync. And most have a sort of FALL from grace as it
                were. AS Jesus said the kingdom of heaven if upon
                you. So it is as you said percieving the Eden we
                dwell in and I supose when we lift our blinders there
                will no longer be any conflict. But before I can fully
                understand a world at peace I have to overcome the
                urge to drop an obnox on the seat of his pants.
                Please excuse the typos
                I have a new computer I am learning to navigate


                --- medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                > "Aideen McKenna" <aideenmck@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Or maybe the world is perfect & we mistakenly
                > perceive it as crappy because we can't see the
                > big picture? The ancient Hebrews thought there
                > was once a Garden of Eden i.e. a Golden Age before
                > their time. Don't people always tend to think that
                > "things used to be better back when"? Jane Goodall
                > was
                > saddened to see that after many years of living
                > with and studying apes, she was witness to an
                > all-out war between two large groups who apparently
                > perceived themselves as distinct tribes.
                > She would not have believed it possible unless
                > she'd seen it with her own eyes. It wasn't a sudden
                > flare-up of anger, it was a real war, involving
                > preparation. Maybe there's an evolutionary step
                > happening in that forest?
                > >
                > > Just my turn to think out loud, Sean.
                > >
                > > Aideen
                > >
                > Yo Aideen,
                > I hadn't heard about the "war" and would like to
                > know
                > more about it. If you could point to a site where
                > it's
                > discussed, I'd appreciate it. As you point out,
                > maybe this
                > is an evolutionary event we're witnessing. Perhaps
                > soon
                > we may also see humans evolve past the "war" stage.
                > Peace and blessings,
                > Bob _____
                > >
                > > From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com]
                > On Behalf Of sean
                > > tremblay
                > > Sent: March 14, 2008 4:17 AM
                > > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re:
                > Answers to Unanswerable
                > > Questions By Swami Sivananda
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > As to the question of Karma and when did it arise?
                > I like the
                > parable of
                > > Adem and Eve. When they ate of the tree of
                > knowlege of good and
                > evil, they
                > > became aware of thier nakedness ect. Which says
                > to me at that point
                > > humanity a a species became "Self aware" from that
                > point they had to
                > leave
                > > the "Garden of Eden" a blissfull state of unity,
                > and from that
                > moment on we
                > > have had to "Toil" or struggle with Karmic actions
                > and wiegh the "Good"
                > > against the "Bad". This struggle causes pain and
                > disapointment. I do
                > > believe that we were brought into a perfect world
                > made crappy by
                > thoughts
                > > actions and false perceptions.
                > >
                > > Just my humble take on Stuff.
                > >
                > > Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > --- In HYPERLINK
                > >
                >
                "mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica%40yahoogroups.com"meditationsocietyof-ame
                > > rica@..., medit8ionsociety
                > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > When and why has God created the world ?
                > > > Why were we created and put to this miserable
                > and pitiable plight ?
                > > > How did Avidya (ignorance) arise in us ?
                > > > When did Karma begin ?
                > > > How could Avidya (ignorance) or Maya exist in
                > the Supreme Absolute
                > > Light ?
                > > > Why did the formless assume forms ?
                > > > Why is there evil in this world ?
                > > >
                > > > Questions like these are Ati-prasna or
                > > > transcendental queries - for which you
                > > > will not get an answer even if you rack
                > > > your brain for million of years. Answers
                > > > to these questions cannot be understood
                > > > with your intellect. You can understand
                > > > it only with your intuition.
                > > >
                > > > It involves the understanding of the Ultimate
                > > > Principle, the Intelligence that is behind
                > > > and beyond these questions, the Cause of all
                > > > causes, the Subject of all objects. It cannot
                > > > be known as object. And, when the subject
                > > > (Self or Atman) knows Itself, speech and
                > > > thought cease. The questioner and question
                > > > vanish in the quest. The doubt disappears in
                > > > the doubter. In that Supreme Silence, the
                > problem
                > > > is inexpressibly solved! The riddle is solved;
                > > > but speech is baffled - and the question remains
                >
                > > > unanswerable.
                > > >
                > > > If a small son questions his father, "Papa, how
                > > > did you procreate me ?", what answer will Papa
                > > > give ? He will simply say, "Wait. When you
                > become
                > > > a man, you will understand this point". This is
                > > > exactly the case with new aspirants in whom the
                > > > Light is trying to shine forth. Do not put the
                > > > cart before the horse. Don't bother about why
                > > > creation came into being, but try to know the
                > > > Creator! Take creation for what it is and try to
                >
                > > > transcend it. This is wisdom. Trying to probe
                > > > intellectually into the mystery is only buying
                > > > psychological distress.
                > > >
                > > > There is no 'Why ?' in respect of transcendental
                >
                > > > matters. 'Why ?' is only for worldly things.
                > Reason
                > > > is finite and frail. God only knows the 'Why ?'.
                >
                > > > Realize the Atma. Then you will get the answers.
                >
                > > > Then you will know the origin and nature of
                > EVERYTHING.
                > > >
                > > > At the present moment, apply yourself to solid
                > > > Sadhana (spiritual practices) in earnestness
                > > > and remove Mala (impurities like lust, greed,
                > > > hatred, anger, jealousy, etc.), Vikshepa (the
                > > > tossing of mind) and Avarana (veil of
                > ignorance).
                > > > Do not enter into vain discussions and arguments
                >
                > > > on such matters.
                > > >
                > >
                > > Thanks, Bob. Really enjoyed
                > > this reminder.
                > >
                > > Jeff
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > _____
                > >
                > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all
                > with Yahoo! Mobile.
                > HYPERLINK
                > >
                >
                "http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8H
                > > DtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20"Try it now.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                > > Checked by AVG.
                > > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 -
                > Release Date: 3/11/08
                > > 1:41 PM
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                > > Checked by AVG.
                > > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 -
                > Release Date: 3/11/08
                > > 1:41 PM
                > >
                >
                >
                >



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