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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Answers to Unanswerable Questions By Swami Sivananda

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  • sean tremblay
    As to the question of Karma and when did it arise? I like the parable of Adem and Eve. When they ate of the tree of knowlege of good and evil, they became
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 14, 2008
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      As to the question of Karma and when did it arise?  I like the parable of Adem and Eve.  When they ate of the tree of knowlege of good and evil, they became aware of thier nakedness ect.  Which says to me at that point humanity a a species became "Self aware" from that point they had to leave the "Garden of Eden" a blissfull state of unity, and from that moment on we have had to "Toil" or struggle with Karmic actions and wiegh the "Good" against the "Bad". This struggle causes pain and disapointment.  I do believe that we were brought into a perfect world made crappy by thoughts actions and false perceptions.
      Just my humble take on Stuff.

      Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
      --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
      <no_reply@.. .> wrote:
      >
      > When and why has God created the world ?
      > Why were we created and put to this miserable and pitiable plight ?
      > How did Avidya (ignorance) arise in us ?
      > When did Karma begin ?
      > How could Avidya (ignorance) or Maya exist in the Supreme Absolute
      Light ?
      > Why did the formless assume forms ?
      > Why is there evil in this world ?
      >
      > Questions like these are Ati-prasna or
      > transcendental queries - for which you
      > will not get an answer even if you rack
      > your brain for million of years. Answers
      > to these questions cannot be understood
      > with your intellect. You can understand
      > it only with your intuition.
      >
      > It involves the understanding of the Ultimate
      > Principle, the Intelligence that is behind
      > and beyond these questions, the Cause of all
      > causes, the Subject of all objects. It cannot
      > be known as object. And, when the subject
      > (Self or Atman) knows Itself, speech and
      > thought cease. The questioner and question
      > vanish in the quest. The doubt disappears in
      > the doubter. In that Supreme Silence, the problem
      > is inexpressibly solved! The riddle is solved;
      > but speech is baffled - and the question remains
      > unanswerable.
      >
      > If a small son questions his father, "Papa, how
      > did you procreate me ?", what answer will Papa
      > give ? He will simply say, "Wait. When you become
      > a man, you will understand this point". This is
      > exactly the case with new aspirants in whom the
      > Light is trying to shine forth. Do not put the
      > cart before the horse. Don't bother about why
      > creation came into being, but try to know the
      > Creator! Take creation for what it is and try to
      > transcend it. This is wisdom. Trying to probe
      > intellectually into the mystery is only buying
      > psychological distress.
      >
      > There is no 'Why ?' in respect of transcendental
      > matters. 'Why ?' is only for worldly things. Reason
      > is finite and frail. God only knows the 'Why ?'.
      > Realize the Atma. Then you will get the answers.
      > Then you will know the origin and nature of EVERYTHING.
      >
      > At the present moment, apply yourself to solid
      > Sadhana (spiritual practices) in earnestness
      > and remove Mala (impurities like lust, greed,
      > hatred, anger, jealousy, etc.), Vikshepa (the
      > tossing of mind) and Avarana (veil of ignorance).
      > Do not enter into vain discussions and arguments
      > on such matters.
      >

      Thanks, Bob. Really enjoyed
      this reminder.

      Jeff



      Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

    • Aideen McKenna
      Or maybe the world is perfect & we mistakenly perceive it as crappy because we can’t see the big picture? The ancient Hebrews thought there was once a
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 14, 2008
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        Or maybe the world is perfect & we mistakenly perceive it as crappy because we can’t see the big picture?  The ancient Hebrews thought there was once a Garden of Eden i.e. a Golden Age before their time.  Don’t people always tend to think that “things used to be better back when”?  Jane Goodall was saddened to see that after many years of living with and studying apes, she was witness to an all-out war between two large groups who apparently perceived themselves as distinct tribes.  She would not have believed it possible unless she’d seen it with her own eyes.  It wasn’t a sudden flare-up of anger, it was a real war, involving preparation.  Maybe there’s an evolutionary step happening in that forest? 

        Just my turn to think out loud, Sean.

        Aideen

         


        From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
        Sent: March 14, 2008 4:17 AM
        To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Answers to Unanswerable Questions By Swami Sivananda

         

        As to the question of Karma and when did it arise?  I like the parable of Adem and Eve.  When they ate of the tree of knowlege of good and evil, they became aware of thier nakedness ect.  Which says to me at that point humanity a a species became "Self aware" from that point they had to leave the "Garden of Eden" a blissfull state of unity, and from that moment on we have had to "Toil" or struggle with Karmic actions and wiegh the "Good" against the "Bad". This struggle causes pain and disapointment.  I do believe that we were brought into a perfect world made crappy by thoughts actions and false perceptions.

        Just my humble take on Stuff.

        Jeff Belyea <jeff@mindgoal. com> wrote:

        --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
        <no_reply@.. .> wrote:
        >
        > When and why has God created the world ?
        > Why were we created and put to this miserable and pitiable plight ?
        > How did Avidya (ignorance) arise in us ?
        > When did Karma begin ?
        > How could Avidya (ignorance) or Maya exist in the Supreme Absolute
        Light ?
        > Why did the formless assume forms ?
        > Why is there evil in this world ?
        >
        > Questions like these are Ati-prasna or
        > transcendental queries - for which you
        > will not get an answer even if you rack
        > your brain for million of years. Answers
        > to these questions cannot be understood
        > with your intellect. You can understand
        > it only with your intuition.
        >
        > It involves the understanding of the Ultimate
        > Principle, the Intelligence that is behind
        > and beyond these questions, the Cause of all
        > causes, the Subject of all objects. It cannot
        > be known as object. And, when the subject
        > (Self or Atman) knows Itself, speech and
        > thought cease. The questioner and question
        > vanish in the quest. The doubt disappears in
        > the doubter. In that Supreme Silence, the problem
        > is inexpressibly solved! The riddle is solved;
        > but speech is baffled - and the question remains
        > unanswerable.
        >
        > If a small son questions his father, "Papa, how
        > did you procreate me ?", what answer will Papa
        > give ? He will simply say, "Wait. When you become
        > a man, you will understand this point". This is
        > exactly the case with new aspirants in whom the
        > Light is trying to shine forth. Do not put the
        > cart before the horse. Don't bother about why
        > creation came into being, but try to know the
        > Creator! Take creation for what it is and try to
        > transcend it. This is wisdom. Trying to probe
        > intellectually into the mystery is only buying
        > psychological distress.
        >
        > There is no 'Why ?' in respect of transcendental
        > matters. 'Why ?' is only for worldly things. Reason
        > is finite and frail. God only knows the 'Why ?'.
        > Realize the Atma. Then you will get the answers.
        > Then you will know the origin and nature of EVERYTHING.
        >
        > At the present moment, apply yourself to solid
        > Sadhana (spiritual practices) in earnestness
        > and remove Mala (impurities like lust, greed,
        > hatred, anger, jealousy, etc.), Vikshepa (the
        > tossing of mind) and Avarana (veil of ignorance).
        > Do not enter into vain discussions and arguments
        > on such matters.
        >

        Thanks, Bob. Really enjoyed
        this reminder.

        Jeff

         

         


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      • medit8ionsociety
        ... Large snip ... Yo Papajeff, I posted this having again recently run into a common response I find when people just begin their meditation practice. As an
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 14, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          "Jeff Belyea" <jeff@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
          > <no_reply@> wrote:
          > >
          > > When and why has God created the world ?
          > > Why were we created and put to this miserable and pitiable plight ?
          > > How did Avidya (ignorance) arise in us ?
          > > When did Karma begin ?
          > > How could Avidya (ignorance) or Maya exist in the Supreme Absolute
          > Light ?
          > > Why did the formless assume forms ?
          > > Why is there evil in this world ?
          > >
          > > Questions like these are Ati-prasna or
          > > transcendental queries - for which you
          > > will not get an answer even if you rack
          > > your brain for million of years. Answers
          > > to these questions cannot be understood
          > > with your intellect. You can understand
          > > it only with your intuition.

          Large snip

          >
          > Thanks, Bob. Really enjoyed
          > this reminder.
          >
          > Jeff
          >
          Yo Papajeff,
          I posted this having again recently run
          into a common response I find when people
          just begin their meditation practice. As an
          example, they may come to meditation after
          their physician recommends it as a beneficial
          part of their quest to effectively improve
          their health, but soon find that they are gaining
          insights they have never before pondered. And
          before you know it, they are deep into asking
          ultimate (and "unanswerable") questions of life.
          But, as it is said, you have to have an empty
          cup before it can fill with anything else, and
          letting your mind go overboard with these type
          questions, and trying to find answers, only
          serves to further crowd the cup with what is
          already filling it, which Kir Li Molari has
          so aptly cited as "Words! Words! Words!". So,
          as is often the case, Swami Sivananda has
          given good pointers as to how to handle this
          common situation. But that isn't surprising
          as he was able to summarize his 350+ books
          of spiritual instruction with just 4 words...
          "Be good. Do good." And that leaves plenty of
          room in ones cup for real wisdom to fill it up.
          Peace and blessings,
          Bob
        • medit8ionsociety
          ... perceive it as crappy because we can t see the big picture? The ancient Hebrews thought there was once a Garden of Eden i.e. a Golden Age before their
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 14, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            "Aideen McKenna" <aideenmck@...> wrote:
            >
            > Or maybe the world is perfect & we mistakenly
            perceive it as crappy because we can't see the
            big picture? The ancient Hebrews thought there
            was once a Garden of Eden i.e. a Golden Age before
            their time. Don't people always tend to think that
            "things used to be better back when"? Jane Goodall was
            saddened to see that after many years of living
            with and studying apes, she was witness to an
            all-out war between two large groups who apparently
            perceived themselves as distinct tribes.
            She would not have believed it possible unless
            she'd seen it with her own eyes. It wasn't a sudden
            flare-up of anger, it was a real war, involving
            preparation. Maybe there's an evolutionary step
            happening in that forest?
            >
            > Just my turn to think out loud, Sean.
            >
            > Aideen
            >
            Yo Aideen,
            I hadn't heard about the "war" and would like to know
            more about it. If you could point to a site where it's
            discussed, I'd appreciate it. As you point out, maybe this
            is an evolutionary event we're witnessing. Perhaps soon
            we may also see humans evolve past the "war" stage.
            Peace and blessings,
            Bob _____
            >
            > From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean
            > tremblay
            > Sent: March 14, 2008 4:17 AM
            > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Answers to Unanswerable
            > Questions By Swami Sivananda
            >
            >
            >
            > As to the question of Karma and when did it arise? I like the
            parable of
            > Adem and Eve. When they ate of the tree of knowlege of good and
            evil, they
            > became aware of thier nakedness ect. Which says to me at that point
            > humanity a a species became "Self aware" from that point they had to
            leave
            > the "Garden of Eden" a blissfull state of unity, and from that
            moment on we
            > have had to "Toil" or struggle with Karmic actions and wiegh the "Good"
            > against the "Bad". This struggle causes pain and disapointment. I do
            > believe that we were brought into a perfect world made crappy by
            thoughts
            > actions and false perceptions.
            >
            > Just my humble take on Stuff.
            >
            > Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In HYPERLINK
            >
            "mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica%40yahoogroups.com"meditationsocietyof-ame
            > rica@..., medit8ionsociety
            > <no_reply@> wrote:
            > >
            > > When and why has God created the world ?
            > > Why were we created and put to this miserable and pitiable plight ?
            > > How did Avidya (ignorance) arise in us ?
            > > When did Karma begin ?
            > > How could Avidya (ignorance) or Maya exist in the Supreme Absolute
            > Light ?
            > > Why did the formless assume forms ?
            > > Why is there evil in this world ?
            > >
            > > Questions like these are Ati-prasna or
            > > transcendental queries - for which you
            > > will not get an answer even if you rack
            > > your brain for million of years. Answers
            > > to these questions cannot be understood
            > > with your intellect. You can understand
            > > it only with your intuition.
            > >
            > > It involves the understanding of the Ultimate
            > > Principle, the Intelligence that is behind
            > > and beyond these questions, the Cause of all
            > > causes, the Subject of all objects. It cannot
            > > be known as object. And, when the subject
            > > (Self or Atman) knows Itself, speech and
            > > thought cease. The questioner and question
            > > vanish in the quest. The doubt disappears in
            > > the doubter. In that Supreme Silence, the problem
            > > is inexpressibly solved! The riddle is solved;
            > > but speech is baffled - and the question remains
            > > unanswerable.
            > >
            > > If a small son questions his father, "Papa, how
            > > did you procreate me ?", what answer will Papa
            > > give ? He will simply say, "Wait. When you become
            > > a man, you will understand this point". This is
            > > exactly the case with new aspirants in whom the
            > > Light is trying to shine forth. Do not put the
            > > cart before the horse. Don't bother about why
            > > creation came into being, but try to know the
            > > Creator! Take creation for what it is and try to
            > > transcend it. This is wisdom. Trying to probe
            > > intellectually into the mystery is only buying
            > > psychological distress.
            > >
            > > There is no 'Why ?' in respect of transcendental
            > > matters. 'Why ?' is only for worldly things. Reason
            > > is finite and frail. God only knows the 'Why ?'.
            > > Realize the Atma. Then you will get the answers.
            > > Then you will know the origin and nature of EVERYTHING.
            > >
            > > At the present moment, apply yourself to solid
            > > Sadhana (spiritual practices) in earnestness
            > > and remove Mala (impurities like lust, greed,
            > > hatred, anger, jealousy, etc.), Vikshepa (the
            > > tossing of mind) and Avarana (veil of ignorance).
            > > Do not enter into vain discussions and arguments
            > > on such matters.
            > >
            >
            > Thanks, Bob. Really enjoyed
            > this reminder.
            >
            > Jeff
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > _____
            >
            > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
            HYPERLINK
            >
            "http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8H
            > DtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20"Try it now.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > No virus found in this incoming message.
            > Checked by AVG.
            > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08
            > 1:41 PM
            >
            >
            >
            > No virus found in this outgoing message.
            > Checked by AVG.
            > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08
            > 1:41 PM
            >
          • Aideen McKenna
            I found this just now – not as large a slaughter as I remembered from the 1970s, but enough, & it went on for 4 years, which I’d forgotten. HYPERLINK
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 14, 2008
            • 0 Attachment

              I found this just now – not as large a slaughter as I remembered from the 1970s, but enough, & it went on for 4 years, which I’d forgotten.

              http://www.mc.maricopa.edu/dept/d10/asb/anthro2003/origins/goodall.html    

               


              From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of medit8ionsociety
              Sent: March 14, 2008 5:45 PM
              To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Answers to Unanswerable Questions By Swami S

               

              "Aideen McKenna" <aideenmck@. ..> wrote:

              >
              > Or maybe the world is perfect & we mistakenly
              perceive it as crappy because we can't see the
              big picture? The ancient Hebrews thought there
              was once a Garden of Eden i.e. a Golden Age before
              their time. Don't people always tend to think that
              "things used to be better back when"? Jane Goodall was
              saddened to see that after many years of living
              with and studying apes, she was witness to an
              all-out war between two large groups who apparently
              perceived themselves as distinct tribes.
              She would not have believed it possible unless
              she'd seen it with her own eyes. It wasn't a sudden
              flare-up of anger, it was a real war, involving
              preparation. Maybe there's an evolutionary step
              happening in that forest?
              >
              > Just my turn to think out loud, Sean.
              >
              > Aideen
              >
              Yo Aideen,
              I hadn't heard about the "war" and would like to know
              more about it. If you could point to a site where it's
              discussed, I'd appreciate it. As you point out, maybe this
              is an evolutionary event we're witnessing. Perhaps soon
              we may also see humans evolve past the "war" stage.
              Peace and blessings,
              Bob _____
              >
              > From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
              > [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com]
              On Behalf Of sean
              > tremblay
              > Sent: March 14, 2008 4:17 AM
              > To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
              > Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of
              w:st="on">America ] Re: Answers to Unanswerable
              > Questions By Swami Sivananda
              >
              >
              >
              > As to the question of Karma and when did it arise? I like the
              parable of
              > Adem and Eve. When they ate of the tree of knowlege of good and
              evil, they
              > became aware of thier nakedness ect. Which says to me at that point
              > humanity a a species became "Self aware" from that point they
              had to
              leave
              > the "Garden of Eden" a blissfull state of unity, and from that
              moment on we
              > have had to "Toil" or struggle with Karmic actions and wiegh the
              "Good"
              > against the "Bad". This struggle causes pain and disapointment.
              I do
              > believe that we were brought into a perfect world made crappy by
              thoughts
              > actions and false perceptions.
              >
              > Just my humble take on Stuff.
              >
              > Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In HYPERLINK
              >
              "mailto:meditations ocietyofamerica% 40yahoogroups. com"meditationso cietyof-ame
              > rica@..., medit8ionsociety
              > <no_reply@> wrote:
              > >
              > > When and why has God created the world ?
              > > Why were we created and put to this miserable and pitiable plight ?
              > > How did Avidya (ignorance) arise in us ?
              > > When did Karma begin ?
              > > How could Avidya (ignorance) or Maya exist in the Supreme Absolute
              > Light ?
              > > Why did the formless assume forms ?
              > > Why is there evil in this world ?
              > >
              > > Questions like these are Ati-prasna or
              > > transcendental queries - for which you
              > > will not get an answer even if you rack
              > > your brain for million of years. Answers
              > > to these questions cannot be understood
              > > with your intellect. You can understand
              > > it only with your intuition.
              > >
              > > It involves the understanding of the Ultimate
              > > Principle, the Intelligence that is behind
              > > and beyond these questions, the Cause of all
              > > causes, the Subject of all objects. It cannot
              > > be known as object. And, when the subject
              > > (Self or Atman) knows Itself, speech and
              > > thought cease. The questioner and question
              > > vanish in the quest. The doubt disappears in
              > > the doubter. In that Supreme Silence, the problem
              > > is inexpressibly solved! The riddle is solved;
              > > but speech is baffled - and the question remains
              > > unanswerable.
              > >
              > > If a small son questions his father, "Papa, how
              > > did you procreate me ?", what answer will Papa
              > > give ? He will simply say, "Wait. When you become
              > > a man, you will understand this point". This is
              > > exactly the case with new aspirants in whom the
              > > Light is trying to shine forth. Do not put the
              > > cart before the horse. Don't bother about why
              > > creation came into being, but try to know the
              > > Creator! Take creation for what it is and try to
              > > transcend it. This is wisdom. Trying to probe
              > > intellectually into the mystery is only buying
              > > psychological distress.
              > >
              > > There is no 'Why ?' in respect of transcendental
              > > matters. 'Why ?' is only for worldly things. Reason
              > > is finite and frail. God only knows the 'Why ?'.
              > > Realize the Atma. Then you will get the answers.
              > > Then you will know the origin and nature of EVERYTHING.
              > >
              > > At the present moment, apply yourself to solid
              > > Sadhana (spiritual practices) in earnestness
              > > and remove Mala (impurities like lust, greed,
              > > hatred, anger, jealousy, etc.), Vikshepa (the
              > > tossing of mind) and Avarana (veil of ignorance).
              > > Do not enter into vain discussions and arguments
              > > on such matters.
              > >
              >
              > Thanks, Bob. Really enjoyed
              > this reminder.
              >
              > Jeff
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > _____
              >
              > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
              HYPERLINK
              >
              "http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=51733/ *http:/mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8H
              > DtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ% 20"Try it now.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > Checked by AVG.
              > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08
              > 1:41 PM
              >
              >
              >
              > No virus found in this outgoing message.
              > Checked by AVG.
              > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08
              > 1:41 PM
              >


              No virus found in this incoming message.
              Checked by AVG.
              Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08 1:41 PM


              No virus found in this outgoing message.
              Checked by AVG.
              Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08 1:41 PM

            • medit8ionsociety
              ... from the ... http://www.mc.maricopa.edu/dept/d10/asb/anthro2003/origins/goodall.html htt ... Amazing! I had no idea that chimps had the potential to be
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 14, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Aideen McKenna"
                <aideenmck@...> wrote:
                >
                > I found this just now – not as large a slaughter as I remembered
                from the
                > 1970s, but enough, & it went on for 4 years, which I'd forgotten.
                >
                > HYPERLINK
                >
                "http://www.mc.maricopa.edu/dept/d10/asb/anthro2003/origins/goodall.html"htt
                > p://www.mc.maricopa.edu/dept/d10/asb/anthro2003/origins/goodall.html
                >
                Amazing! I had no idea that chimps had the potential
                to be just as savage as we are. I don't want to be
                judgmental, but (unfortunately?!) they still have a long
                way to go until they match what goes on in Philly
                every day! And that's why the need to get Meditation
                In Education, is the #1 hope and project of the Meditation
                Society of America.
                Peace and blessings,
                Bob
                > _____
                >
                > From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                > medit8ionsociety
                > Sent: March 14, 2008 5:45 PM
                > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Answers to Unanswerable
                > Questions By Swami S
                >
                >
                >
                > "Aideen McKenna" <aideenmck@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Or maybe the world is perfect & we mistakenly
                > perceive it as crappy because we can't see the
                > big picture? The ancient Hebrews thought there
                > was once a Garden of Eden i.e. a Golden Age before
                > their time. Don't people always tend to think that
                > "things used to be better back when"? Jane Goodall was
                > saddened to see that after many years of living
                > with and studying apes, she was witness to an
                > all-out war between two large groups who apparently
                > perceived themselves as distinct tribes.
                > She would not have believed it possible unless
                > she'd seen it with her own eyes. It wasn't a sudden
                > flare-up of anger, it was a real war, involving
                > preparation. Maybe there's an evolutionary step
                > happening in that forest?
                > >
                > > Just my turn to think out loud, Sean.
                > >
                > > Aideen
                > >
                > Yo Aideen,
                > I hadn't heard about the "war" and would like to know
                > more about it. If you could point to a site where it's
                > discussed, I'd appreciate it. As you point out, maybe this
                > is an evolutionary event we're witnessing. Perhaps soon
                > we may also see humans evolve past the "war" stage.
                > Peace and blessings,
                > Bob _____
                > >
                > > From: HYPERLINK
                >
                "mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica%40yahoogroups.com"meditationsocietyof-ame
                > rica@...
                > > [mailto:HYPERLINK
                >
                "mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica%40yahoogroups.com"meditationsocietyof-ame
                > rica@...] On Behalf Of sean
                > > tremblay
                > > Sent: March 14, 2008 4:17 AM
                > > To: HYPERLINK
                >
                "mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica%40yahoogroups.com"meditationsocietyof-ame
                > rica@...
                > > Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Answers to
                Unanswerable
                > > Questions By Swami Sivananda
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > As to the question of Karma and when did it arise? I like the
                > parable of
                > > Adem and Eve. When they ate of the tree of knowlege of good and
                > evil, they
                > > became aware of thier nakedness ect. Which says to me at that point
                > > humanity a a species became "Self aware" from that point they had to
                > leave
                > > the "Garden of Eden" a blissfull state of unity, and from that
                > moment on we
                > > have had to "Toil" or struggle with Karmic actions and wiegh the
                "Good"
                > > against the "Bad". This struggle causes pain and disapointment. I do
                > > believe that we were brought into a perfect world made crappy by
                > thoughts
                > > actions and false perceptions.
                > >
                > > Just my humble take on Stuff.
                > >
                > > Jeff Belyea <jeff@> wrote:
                > >
                > > --- In HYPERLINK
                > >
                >
                "mailto:meditations-ocietyofamerica%-40yahoogroups.-com"meditationso-cietyof
                > -ame
                > > rica@, medit8ionsociety
                > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > When and why has God created the world ?
                > > > Why were we created and put to this miserable and pitiable plight ?
                > > > How did Avidya (ignorance) arise in us ?
                > > > When did Karma begin ?
                > > > How could Avidya (ignorance) or Maya exist in the Supreme Absolute
                > > Light ?
                > > > Why did the formless assume forms ?
                > > > Why is there evil in this world ?
                > > >
                > > > Questions like these are Ati-prasna or
                > > > transcendental queries - for which you
                > > > will not get an answer even if you rack
                > > > your brain for million of years. Answers
                > > > to these questions cannot be understood
                > > > with your intellect. You can understand
                > > > it only with your intuition.
                > > >
                > > > It involves the understanding of the Ultimate
                > > > Principle, the Intelligence that is behind
                > > > and beyond these questions, the Cause of all
                > > > causes, the Subject of all objects. It cannot
                > > > be known as object. And, when the subject
                > > > (Self or Atman) knows Itself, speech and
                > > > thought cease. The questioner and question
                > > > vanish in the quest. The doubt disappears in
                > > > the doubter. In that Supreme Silence, the problem
                > > > is inexpressibly solved! The riddle is solved;
                > > > but speech is baffled - and the question remains
                > > > unanswerable.
                > > >
                > > > If a small son questions his father, "Papa, how
                > > > did you procreate me ?", what answer will Papa
                > > > give ? He will simply say, "Wait. When you become
                > > > a man, you will understand this point". This is
                > > > exactly the case with new aspirants in whom the
                > > > Light is trying to shine forth. Do not put the
                > > > cart before the horse. Don't bother about why
                > > > creation came into being, but try to know the
                > > > Creator! Take creation for what it is and try to
                > > > transcend it. This is wisdom. Trying to probe
                > > > intellectually into the mystery is only buying
                > > > psychological distress.
                > > >
                > > > There is no 'Why ?' in respect of transcendental
                > > > matters. 'Why ?' is only for worldly things. Reason
                > > > is finite and frail. God only knows the 'Why ?'.
                > > > Realize the Atma. Then you will get the answers.
                > > > Then you will know the origin and nature of EVERYTHING.
                > > >
                > > > At the present moment, apply yourself to solid
                > > > Sadhana (spiritual practices) in earnestness
                > > > and remove Mala (impurities like lust, greed,
                > > > hatred, anger, jealousy, etc.), Vikshepa (the
                > > > tossing of mind) and Avarana (veil of ignorance).
                > > > Do not enter into vain discussions and arguments
                > > > on such matters.
                > > >
                > >
                > > Thanks, Bob. Really enjoyed
                > > this reminder.
                > >
                > > Jeff
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > _____
                > >
                > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
                > HYPERLINK
                > >
                > "HYPERLINK
                >
                "http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8H
                >
                "http://us.rd.-yahoo.com/-evt=51733/-*http:/mobile.-yahoo.com/-;_ylt=Ahu06i6
                > 2sR-8H
                > > DtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%-20"Try it now.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                > > Checked by AVG.
                > > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date:
                3/11/08
                > > 1:41 PM
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                > > Checked by AVG.
                > > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date:
                3/11/08
                > > 1:41 PM
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > No virus found in this incoming message.
                > Checked by AVG.
                > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08
                > 1:41 PM
                >
                >
                >
                > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                > Checked by AVG.
                > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08
                > 1:41 PM
                >
              • Balasubramanian Radhakrishnan Kumar
                One must find out who he is, before he enquires about God and the world - Bhagavan Ramana Maharishi ...
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 14, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  One must find out who he is, before he enquires about God and the world - Bhagavan Ramana Maharishi
                  ________________________________
                  > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                  > From: no_reply@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 03:06:30 +0000
                  > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Answers to Unanswerable Questions By Swami S
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Aideen McKenna"
                  > wrote:
                  >>
                  >> I found this just now – not as large a slaughter as I remembered
                  > from the
                  >> 1970s, but enough, & it went on for 4 years, which I'd forgotten.
                  >>
                  >> HYPERLINK
                  >>
                  > "http://www.mc.maricopa.edu/dept/d10/asb/anthro2003/origins/goodall.html"htt
                  >> p://www.mc.maricopa.edu/dept/d10/asb/anthro2003/origins/goodall.html
                  >>
                  > Amazing! I had no idea that chimps had the potential
                  > to be just as savage as we are. I don't want to be
                  > judgmental, but (unfortunately?!) they still have a long
                  > way to go until they match what goes on in Philly
                  > every day! And that's why the need to get Meditation
                  > In Education, is the #1 hope and project of the Meditation
                  > Society of America.
                  > Peace and blessings,
                  > Bob
                  >> _____
                  >>
                  >> From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                  >> [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                  >> medit8ionsociety
                  >> Sent: March 14, 2008 5:45 PM
                  >> To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                  >> Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Answers to Unanswerable
                  >> Questions By Swami S
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> "Aideen McKenna" wrote:
                  >>>
                  >>> Or maybe the world is perfect & we mistakenly
                  >> perceive it as crappy because we can't see the
                  >> big picture? The ancient Hebrews thought there
                  >> was once a Garden of Eden i.e. a Golden Age before
                  >> their time. Don't people always tend to think that
                  >> "things used to be better back when"? Jane Goodall was
                  >> saddened to see that after many years of living
                  >> with and studying apes, she was witness to an
                  >> all-out war between two large groups who apparently
                  >> perceived themselves as distinct tribes.
                  >> She would not have believed it possible unless
                  >> she'd seen it with her own eyes. It wasn't a sudden
                  >> flare-up of anger, it was a real war, involving
                  >> preparation. Maybe there's an evolutionary step
                  >> happening in that forest?
                  >>>
                  >>> Just my turn to think out loud, Sean.
                  >>>
                  >>> Aideen
                  >>>
                  >> Yo Aideen,
                  >> I hadn't heard about the "war" and would like to know
                  >> more about it. If you could point to a site where it's
                  >> discussed, I'd appreciate it. As you point out, maybe this
                  >> is an evolutionary event we're witnessing. Perhaps soon
                  >> we may also see humans evolve past the "war" stage.
                  >> Peace and blessings,
                  >> Bob _____
                  >>>
                  >>> From: HYPERLINK
                  >>
                  > "mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica%40yahoogroups.com"meditationsocietyof-ame
                  >> rica@...
                  >>> [mailto:HYPERLINK
                  >>
                  > "mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica%40yahoogroups.com"meditationsocietyof-ame
                  >> rica@...] On Behalf Of sean
                  >>> tremblay
                  >>> Sent: March 14, 2008 4:17 AM
                  >>> To: HYPERLINK
                  >>
                  > "mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica%40yahoogroups.com"meditationsocietyof-ame
                  >> rica@...
                  >>> Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Answers to
                  > Unanswerable
                  >>> Questions By Swami Sivananda
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>> As to the question of Karma and when did it arise? I like the
                  >> parable of
                  >>> Adem and Eve. When they ate of the tree of knowlege of good and
                  >> evil, they
                  >>> became aware of thier nakedness ect. Which says to me at that point
                  >>> humanity a a species became "Self aware" from that point they had to
                  >> leave
                  >>> the "Garden of Eden" a blissfull state of unity, and from that
                  >> moment on we
                  >>> have had to "Toil" or struggle with Karmic actions and wiegh the
                  > "Good"
                  >>> against the "Bad". This struggle causes pain and disapointment. I do
                  >>> believe that we were brought into a perfect world made crappy by
                  >> thoughts
                  >>> actions and false perceptions.
                  >>>
                  >>> Just my humble take on Stuff.
                  >>>
                  >>> Jeff Belyea wrote:
                  >>>
                  >>> --- In HYPERLINK
                  >>>
                  >>
                  > "mailto:meditations-ocietyofamerica%-40yahoogroups.-com"meditationso-cietyof
                  >> -ame
                  >>> rica@, medit8ionsociety
                  >>> wrote:
                  >>>>
                  >>>> When and why has God created the world ?
                  >>>> Why were we created and put to this miserable and pitiable plight ?
                  >>>> How did Avidya (ignorance) arise in us ?
                  >>>> When did Karma begin ?
                  >>>> How could Avidya (ignorance) or Maya exist in the Supreme Absolute
                  >>> Light ?
                  >>>> Why did the formless assume forms ?
                  >>>> Why is there evil in this world ?
                  >>>>
                  >>>> Questions like these are Ati-prasna or
                  >>>> transcendental queries - for which you
                  >>>> will not get an answer even if you rack
                  >>>> your brain for million of years. Answers
                  >>>> to these questions cannot be understood
                  >>>> with your intellect. You can understand
                  >>>> it only with your intuition.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> It involves the understanding of the Ultimate
                  >>>> Principle, the Intelligence that is behind
                  >>>> and beyond these questions, the Cause of all
                  >>>> causes, the Subject of all objects. It cannot
                  >>>> be known as object. And, when the subject
                  >>>> (Self or Atman) knows Itself, speech and
                  >>>> thought cease. The questioner and question
                  >>>> vanish in the quest. The doubt disappears in
                  >>>> the doubter. In that Supreme Silence, the problem
                  >>>> is inexpressibly solved! The riddle is solved;
                  >>>> but speech is baffled - and the question remains
                  >>>> unanswerable.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> If a small son questions his father, "Papa, how
                  >>>> did you procreate me ?", what answer will Papa
                  >>>> give ? He will simply say, "Wait. When you become
                  >>>> a man, you will understand this point". This is
                  >>>> exactly the case with new aspirants in whom the
                  >>>> Light is trying to shine forth. Do not put the
                  >>>> cart before the horse. Don't bother about why
                  >>>> creation came into being, but try to know the
                  >>>> Creator! Take creation for what it is and try to
                  >>>> transcend it. This is wisdom. Trying to probe
                  >>>> intellectually into the mystery is only buying
                  >>>> psychological distress.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> There is no 'Why ?' in respect of transcendental
                  >>>> matters. 'Why ?' is only for worldly things. Reason
                  >>>> is finite and frail. God only knows the 'Why ?'.
                  >>>> Realize the Atma. Then you will get the answers.
                  >>>> Then you will know the origin and nature of EVERYTHING.
                  >>>>
                  >>>> At the present moment, apply yourself to solid
                  >>>> Sadhana (spiritual practices) in earnestness
                  >>>> and remove Mala (impurities like lust, greed,
                  >>>> hatred, anger, jealousy, etc.), Vikshepa (the
                  >>>> tossing of mind) and Avarana (veil of ignorance).
                  >>>> Do not enter into vain discussions and arguments
                  >>>> on such matters.
                  >>>>
                  >>>
                  >>> Thanks, Bob. Really enjoyed
                  >>> this reminder.
                  >>>
                  >>> Jeff
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>> _____
                  >>>
                  >>> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
                  >> HYPERLINK
                  >>>
                  >> "HYPERLINK
                  >>
                  > "http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8H
                  >>
                  > "http://us.rd.-yahoo.com/-evt=51733/-*http:/mobile.-yahoo.com/-;_ylt=Ahu06i6
                  >> 2sR-8H
                  >>> DtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%-20"Try it now.
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>> No virus found in this incoming message.
                  >>> Checked by AVG.
                  >>> Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date:
                  > 3/11/08
                  >>> 1:41 PM
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
                  >>> Checked by AVG.
                  >>> Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date:
                  > 3/11/08
                  >>> 1:41 PM
                  >>>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> No virus found in this incoming message.
                  >> Checked by AVG.
                  >> Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08
                  >> 1:41 PM
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> No virus found in this outgoing message.
                  >> Checked by AVG.
                  >> Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 - Release Date: 3/11/08
                  >> 1:41 PM
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  _________________________________________________________________
                  Post free property ads on Yello Classifieds now! www.yello.in
                  http://ss1.richmedia.in/recurl.asp?pid=219
                • sean tremblay
                  Aideen, I I agree completely I often wondered what the origin of war is, It seems that we and our closest cousins the Chimps are the few animals that wage war
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 15, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Aideen,
                    I I agree completely
                    I often wondered what the origin of war is, It seems
                    that we and our closest cousins the Chimps are the few
                    animals that wage war for territory, The question is
                    is it Instict on a hard wired evolutionary sense or is
                    it instinct on a softer social evolutionary sense.
                    Did it serve a genuine survival purpose or not, I
                    could go on for hours pondering WAR. There is a
                    common mythology of a golden time when humanity was in
                    sync. And most have a sort of FALL from grace as it
                    were. AS Jesus said the kingdom of heaven if upon
                    you. So it is as you said percieving the Eden we
                    dwell in and I supose when we lift our blinders there
                    will no longer be any conflict. But before I can fully
                    understand a world at peace I have to overcome the
                    urge to drop an obnox on the seat of his pants.
                    Please excuse the typos
                    I have a new computer I am learning to navigate


                    --- medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    > "Aideen McKenna" <aideenmck@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Or maybe the world is perfect & we mistakenly
                    > perceive it as crappy because we can't see the
                    > big picture? The ancient Hebrews thought there
                    > was once a Garden of Eden i.e. a Golden Age before
                    > their time. Don't people always tend to think that
                    > "things used to be better back when"? Jane Goodall
                    > was
                    > saddened to see that after many years of living
                    > with and studying apes, she was witness to an
                    > all-out war between two large groups who apparently
                    > perceived themselves as distinct tribes.
                    > She would not have believed it possible unless
                    > she'd seen it with her own eyes. It wasn't a sudden
                    > flare-up of anger, it was a real war, involving
                    > preparation. Maybe there's an evolutionary step
                    > happening in that forest?
                    > >
                    > > Just my turn to think out loud, Sean.
                    > >
                    > > Aideen
                    > >
                    > Yo Aideen,
                    > I hadn't heard about the "war" and would like to
                    > know
                    > more about it. If you could point to a site where
                    > it's
                    > discussed, I'd appreciate it. As you point out,
                    > maybe this
                    > is an evolutionary event we're witnessing. Perhaps
                    > soon
                    > we may also see humans evolve past the "war" stage.
                    > Peace and blessings,
                    > Bob _____
                    > >
                    > > From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                    > >
                    > [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com]
                    > On Behalf Of sean
                    > > tremblay
                    > > Sent: March 14, 2008 4:17 AM
                    > > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re:
                    > Answers to Unanswerable
                    > > Questions By Swami Sivananda
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > As to the question of Karma and when did it arise?
                    > I like the
                    > parable of
                    > > Adem and Eve. When they ate of the tree of
                    > knowlege of good and
                    > evil, they
                    > > became aware of thier nakedness ect. Which says
                    > to me at that point
                    > > humanity a a species became "Self aware" from that
                    > point they had to
                    > leave
                    > > the "Garden of Eden" a blissfull state of unity,
                    > and from that
                    > moment on we
                    > > have had to "Toil" or struggle with Karmic actions
                    > and wiegh the "Good"
                    > > against the "Bad". This struggle causes pain and
                    > disapointment. I do
                    > > believe that we were brought into a perfect world
                    > made crappy by
                    > thoughts
                    > > actions and false perceptions.
                    > >
                    > > Just my humble take on Stuff.
                    > >
                    > > Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > --- In HYPERLINK
                    > >
                    >
                    "mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica%40yahoogroups.com"meditationsocietyof-ame
                    > > rica@..., medit8ionsociety
                    > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > When and why has God created the world ?
                    > > > Why were we created and put to this miserable
                    > and pitiable plight ?
                    > > > How did Avidya (ignorance) arise in us ?
                    > > > When did Karma begin ?
                    > > > How could Avidya (ignorance) or Maya exist in
                    > the Supreme Absolute
                    > > Light ?
                    > > > Why did the formless assume forms ?
                    > > > Why is there evil in this world ?
                    > > >
                    > > > Questions like these are Ati-prasna or
                    > > > transcendental queries - for which you
                    > > > will not get an answer even if you rack
                    > > > your brain for million of years. Answers
                    > > > to these questions cannot be understood
                    > > > with your intellect. You can understand
                    > > > it only with your intuition.
                    > > >
                    > > > It involves the understanding of the Ultimate
                    > > > Principle, the Intelligence that is behind
                    > > > and beyond these questions, the Cause of all
                    > > > causes, the Subject of all objects. It cannot
                    > > > be known as object. And, when the subject
                    > > > (Self or Atman) knows Itself, speech and
                    > > > thought cease. The questioner and question
                    > > > vanish in the quest. The doubt disappears in
                    > > > the doubter. In that Supreme Silence, the
                    > problem
                    > > > is inexpressibly solved! The riddle is solved;
                    > > > but speech is baffled - and the question remains
                    >
                    > > > unanswerable.
                    > > >
                    > > > If a small son questions his father, "Papa, how
                    > > > did you procreate me ?", what answer will Papa
                    > > > give ? He will simply say, "Wait. When you
                    > become
                    > > > a man, you will understand this point". This is
                    > > > exactly the case with new aspirants in whom the
                    > > > Light is trying to shine forth. Do not put the
                    > > > cart before the horse. Don't bother about why
                    > > > creation came into being, but try to know the
                    > > > Creator! Take creation for what it is and try to
                    >
                    > > > transcend it. This is wisdom. Trying to probe
                    > > > intellectually into the mystery is only buying
                    > > > psychological distress.
                    > > >
                    > > > There is no 'Why ?' in respect of transcendental
                    >
                    > > > matters. 'Why ?' is only for worldly things.
                    > Reason
                    > > > is finite and frail. God only knows the 'Why ?'.
                    >
                    > > > Realize the Atma. Then you will get the answers.
                    >
                    > > > Then you will know the origin and nature of
                    > EVERYTHING.
                    > > >
                    > > > At the present moment, apply yourself to solid
                    > > > Sadhana (spiritual practices) in earnestness
                    > > > and remove Mala (impurities like lust, greed,
                    > > > hatred, anger, jealousy, etc.), Vikshepa (the
                    > > > tossing of mind) and Avarana (veil of
                    > ignorance).
                    > > > Do not enter into vain discussions and arguments
                    >
                    > > > on such matters.
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > Thanks, Bob. Really enjoyed
                    > > this reminder.
                    > >
                    > > Jeff
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > _____
                    > >
                    > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all
                    > with Yahoo! Mobile.
                    > HYPERLINK
                    > >
                    >
                    "http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http:/mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8H
                    > > DtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20"Try it now.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                    > > Checked by AVG.
                    > > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 -
                    > Release Date: 3/11/08
                    > > 1:41 PM
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                    > > Checked by AVG.
                    > > Version: 7.5.518 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1325 -
                    > Release Date: 3/11/08
                    > > 1:41 PM
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >



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