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The Bhagavad Gita 3

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  • westwindwood2003
    Heat, cold, pleasure, pain, comes and goes, impermanent. Just bear patiently and the person is a star among people. Pleasure and pain does not matter and so
    Message 1 of 28 , Mar 11, 2008
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      Heat, cold, pleasure, pain, comes and goes, impermanent. Just bear
      patiently and the person is a star among people. Pleasure and pain
      does not matter and so the person is fit for immortality. The
      foregoing is not a matter of belief, but of experience. A person who
      is working with enlightenment to improve themselves just takes what
      is happening in their life as stimulation to bring material up to be
      worked on. In doing so they are working toward immortality, giving
      up their desires, letting them evaporate under the influence of the
      enlightenment experience. Now the next line from the Gita seems to
      go in a curious circle, but not really. When I first looked at this,
      I did so intellectually, but then I meditated about it in the
      enlightenment mode. Not of the unreal is being, and not non-being is
      of the real. The knower of truth sees indeed the absolute truth of
      these two. OK, these come out of the meditation experience. There
      is the discovery of the unreal bubbling forth from the desires of the
      subconscious and the being that gives the guidance to the unreal
      desires that cause evolution into the real. The knower of the truth
      understands these two things and the interconnectedness.

      Indestructible indeed that, known by thou whom perceives that all
      this is pervaded; destruction of this imperishable is not possible by
      anyone. Well, if you meditate and are undergoing the repeated
      enlightenment experience, you definitely know that the answers you
      get are imperishable and indestructible, very consistent and you had
      just better do it so that you can evolve towards that, probably
      taking lifetimes. The Gita goes on with this indestructible Atman
      theme for quite a few stanzas and that is what you are working on for
      enlightenment.

      The phenomenal is explained –Having a goal these everlasting bodies
      are manifested with the indestructible and the immeasurable;
      therefore fight O Bharata (Arjuna).

      He who thinks of the self believes in slaying and slain. Both are not
      reality as It slays not, nor is It slain.

      Not born like physical, it does not die or die at any time, this
      having been and will be, not instantly unborn. Eternal, changeless,
      this is ancient and not killed when the body is killed.

      Know indestructible, eternal, who this self unborn, inexhaustible.
      Arjuna, who causes slaying, or causes another to slay?

      Like discarded worn out clothes, other physical bodies are taken, so
      bodies are cast away and the one new entered into.
    • westwindwood2003
      The English translation I am using is The Bhagavad Gita with commentary by Swami Chidbhavananda in case anyone is curious. I believe it is used as a college
      Message 2 of 28 , Mar 17, 2008
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        The English translation I am using is The Bhagavad Gita with
        commentary by Swami Chidbhavananda in case anyone is curious. I
        believe it is used as a college textbook in India. Commencing with
        Chapter 2 Verse 23 and 24:

        Weapons do not cut, fire does not burn and, water not wet and wind
        not dry It (Atman, Self)

        It (Atman, universal) cannot be cut, burnt, wetted, dried; also It is
        eternal, all pervading, stable, immovable, and ancient.

        If a person has never taken up meditation, then these two verses are
        the foundation for their meditation commencement and then the ongoing
        evolution. First off, a person may not be aware that they have a
        soul (Atman), one with the attributes found in Verse 23 so the Gita
        so states that one does. Now Atman can also mean the universal soul,
        which is brought forth in Verse 24. As a person evolves through the
        enlightenment found in meditation, the individual Self of Verse 23
        takes on the characteristics of the universal Atman of Verse 24.

        Verse 25:
        This is said: un-manifested, unthinkable, unchangeable; having known
        this, grieve not.

        However, it is possible to experience the foregoing (Atman) through
        meditation, and therefore grieve not for there is all comfort found
        here. All is taken care of for you.
      • westwindwood2003
        The materialistic standpoint, nothing is permanent, nihilism, atheism, (unorthodox opinions) 26. Consider: And now this constantly aborning, or thinking
        Message 3 of 28 , Mar 19, 2008
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          The materialistic standpoint, nothing is permanent, nihilism,
          atheism, (unorthodox opinions)

          26. Consider: And now this constantly aborning, or thinking death,
          this is inevitable, even then Oh Mighty Armed, do not grieve. (All
          together now, one, two, three, in two part harmony)

          27. Of the born, for certain there is death, and a birth for that
          which is dead, and therefore the matter is inevitable. You aught not
          to grieve. (Life, death, life, death, life, death… one after the
          other as long as there is karma to work out and then nothing at the
          end, or maybe it's just an exchange of one physical entity for
          another over and over again. This is for the materialists, but what
          of enlightenment for thou?)

          28. Un-manifested in the beginning, beings manifested in their middle
          state O Bharatha, un-manifested again in the end, so again what grief
          is there? (Nature dictates there be manifestations, but there is no
          Self through it all)

          The above opinions, although not in agreement with accepted beliefs,
          are examined. Ultimately, no big deal because whatever you believe,
          when you get whacked up the side of the head with enlightenment, then
          you have to accept It and get off your duff, and give up despondency
          or whatever you were clinging to, or believing in, accept It and go
          forth.
        • sean tremblay
          Agreed, belief is just belief and what is,is regardless westwindwood2003 wrote: The materialistic standpoint, nothing is
          Message 4 of 28 , Mar 20, 2008
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            Agreed,
            belief is just belief and what is,is regardless

            westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
            The materialistic standpoint, nothing is permanent, nihilism,
            atheism, (unorthodox opinions)

            26. Consider: And now this constantly aborning, or thinking death,
            this is inevitable, even then Oh Mighty Armed, do not grieve. (All
            together now, one, two, three, in two part harmony)

            27. Of the born, for certain there is death, and a birth for that
            which is dead, and therefore the matter is inevitable. You aught not
            to grieve. (Life, death, life, death, life, death… one after the
            other as long as there is karma to work out and then nothing at the
            end, or maybe it's just an exchange of one physical entity for
            another over and over again. This is for the materialists, but what
            of enlightenment for thou?)

            28. Un-manifested in the beginning, beings manifested in their middle
            state O Bharatha, un-manifested again in the end, so again what grief
            is there? (Nature dictates there be manifestations, but there is no
            Self through it all)

            The above opinions, although not in agreement with accepted beliefs,
            are examined. Ultimately, no big deal because whatever you believe,
            when you get whacked up the side of the head with enlightenment, then
            you have to accept It and get off your duff, and give up despondency
            or whatever you were clinging to, or believing in, accept It and go
            forth.



            Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

          • westwindwood2003
            Atman transcends mind, speech, and understanding 29: Enlightenment happens to someone: astonished, awed, in wonder, overwhelmed even; therefore, the speaking
            Message 5 of 28 , Mar 20, 2008
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              Atman transcends mind, speech, and understanding

              29: Enlightenment happens to someone: astonished, awed, in wonder,
              overwhelmed even; therefore, the speaking of this foregoing to another,
              the superlative words are not nearly enough, and so this other knows
              not of what is trying to be expressed, the words bring no
              understanding. To the casual bystanders all this description means
              nothing whatsoever.

              30: In all bodies is the indestructible Indweller, O Bharta (Arjuna),
              grieve not for them at all.

              Well, since you have the Indweller, you work with yourself so that if
              It is revealed, the superlative guidance and wisdom presented for the
              Self to take up, to evolve towards the Indweller's nature will be
              undertaken.
            • westwindwood2003
              Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37 31. One is born into the class of people that fight for righteousness, and nothing is higher that this duty, so look at not to
              Message 6 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
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                Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37


                31. One is born into the class of people that fight for
                righteousness, and nothing is higher that this duty, so look at not
                to waver.

                32. It has happened at this time that the gift of enlightenment is
                apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go into this battle.

                33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare that is you fame, your
                duty, abandonment shall incur sin.

                34. Your dishonor will be told about by the honored and this
                everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death

                35. Other warriors who have experienced enlightenment and currently
                hold you in high esteem will decide you are a light weigh for
                withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.

                36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many will say your enemies
                will criticize your petty power. What could be more painful than
                this?

                37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious you will enjoy the
                earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to fight.
              • sandeep chatterjee
                Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                Message 7 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
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                  Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.

                  westwindwood2003 wrote:
                  > Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                  > 31. One is born into the class of people that fight for
                  > righteousness, and nothing is higher that this duty, so look at not
                  > to waver.
                  > 32. It has happened at this time that the gift of enlightenment is
                  > apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go into this battle.
                  > 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare that is you fame, your
                  > duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                  > 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the honored and this
                  > everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                  > 35. Other warriors who have experienced enlightenment and currently
                  > hold you in high esteem will decide you are a light weigh for
                  > withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                  > 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many will say your enemies
                  > will criticize your petty power. What could be more painful than
                  > this?
                  > 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious you will enjoy the
                  > earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to fight.
                  >
                • sean tremblay
                  And has been the rallying battle cry of all commanders to the troops of all nations who make war! In the context of Ajuna s reluctance in a military sense,
                  Message 8 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
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                    And has been the rallying battle cry of all commanders
                    to the troops of all nations who make war!
                    In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a military
                    sense, this is something I myself have struggled with.
                    I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma is to
                    explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
                    insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
                    soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
                    anarchist at heart with a didain for authority and a
                    dislike of possesing authority over others yet.... I
                    find the military in some form or other keeps creeping
                    it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I must
                    break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
                    --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:

                    > Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                    >
                    > westwindwood2003 wrote:
                    > > Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                    > > 31. One is born into the class of people that
                    > fight for
                    > > righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
                    > duty, so look at not
                    > > to waver.
                    > > 32. It has happened at this time that the gift of
                    > enlightenment is
                    > > apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go into
                    > this battle.
                    > > 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare that
                    > is you fame, your
                    > > duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                    > > 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
                    > honored and this
                    > > everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                    > > 35. Other warriors who have experienced
                    > enlightenment and currently
                    > > hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
                    > light weigh for
                    > > withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                    > > 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
                    > will say your enemies
                    > > will criticize your petty power. What could be
                    > more painful than
                    > > this?
                    > > 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious you
                    > will enjoy the
                    > > earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to fight.
                    > >
                    >
                    >



                    ____________________________________________________________________________________
                    Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                    http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                  • Jeff Belyea
                    Sean - Krisna s advice to Arjuna is in the context of consciousness. The battleground is the mind and the concepts that the illusory and secondary identity
                    Message 9 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
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                      Sean -

                      Krisna's advice to Arjuna is
                      in the context of consciousness.
                      The battleground is the mind
                      and the concepts that the illusory
                      and secondary identity (ego)
                      finds so precious.

                      Enlightenment - in one aspect, the
                      victory over ego attachments - reveals
                      a primary identity that has absolute
                      clarity and no unanswered questions
                      ...nothing to resolve...perfect peace
                      of mind and utter tranquility.

                      Jeff


                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
                      <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > And has been the rallying battle cry of all commanders
                      > to the troops of all nations who make war!
                      > In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a military
                      > sense, this is something I myself have struggled with.
                      > I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma is to
                      > explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
                      > insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
                      > soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
                      > anarchist at heart with a didain for authority and a
                      > dislike of possesing authority over others yet.... I
                      > find the military in some form or other keeps creeping
                      > it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I must
                      > break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
                      > --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                      > >
                      > > westwindwood2003 wrote:
                      > > > Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                      > > > 31. One is born into the class of people that
                      > > fight for
                      > > > righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
                      > > duty, so look at not
                      > > > to waver.
                      > > > 32. It has happened at this time that the gift of
                      > > enlightenment is
                      > > > apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go into
                      > > this battle.
                      > > > 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare that
                      > > is you fame, your
                      > > > duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                      > > > 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
                      > > honored and this
                      > > > everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                      > > > 35. Other warriors who have experienced
                      > > enlightenment and currently
                      > > > hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
                      > > light weigh for
                      > > > withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                      > > > 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
                      > > will say your enemies
                      > > > will criticize your petty power. What could be
                      > > more painful than
                      > > > this?
                      > > > 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious you
                      > > will enjoy the
                      > > > earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to fight.
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      ______________________________________________________________________
                      ______________
                      > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                      > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                      >
                    • sean tremblay
                      yep, I understand it both ways ... ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your
                      Message 10 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
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                        yep, I understand it both ways
                        --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:

                        > Sean -
                        >
                        > Krisna's advice to Arjuna is
                        > in the context of consciousness.
                        > The battleground is the mind
                        > and the concepts that the illusory
                        > and secondary identity (ego)
                        > finds so precious.
                        >
                        > Enlightenment - in one aspect, the
                        > victory over ego attachments - reveals
                        > a primary identity that has absolute
                        > clarity and no unanswered questions
                        > ...nothing to resolve...perfect peace
                        > of mind and utter tranquility.
                        >
                        > Jeff
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                        > sean tremblay
                        > <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > And has been the rallying battle cry of all
                        > commanders
                        > > to the troops of all nations who make war!
                        > > In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a military
                        > > sense, this is something I myself have struggled
                        > with.
                        > > I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma is
                        > to
                        > > explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
                        > > insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
                        > > soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
                        > > anarchist at heart with a didain for authority and
                        > a
                        > > dislike of possesing authority over others yet....
                        > I
                        > > find the military in some form or other keeps
                        > creeping
                        > > it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I must
                        > > break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
                        > > --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                        > > >
                        > > > westwindwood2003 wrote:
                        > > > > Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                        > > > > 31. One is born into the class of people that
                        > > > fight for
                        > > > > righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
                        > > > duty, so look at not
                        > > > > to waver.
                        > > > > 32. It has happened at this time that the gift
                        > of
                        > > > enlightenment is
                        > > > > apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go
                        > into
                        > > > this battle.
                        > > > > 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare
                        > that
                        > > > is you fame, your
                        > > > > duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                        > > > > 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
                        > > > honored and this
                        > > > > everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                        >
                        > > > > 35. Other warriors who have experienced
                        > > > enlightenment and currently
                        > > > > hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
                        > > > light weigh for
                        > > > > withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                        >
                        > > > > 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
                        > > > will say your enemies
                        > > > > will criticize your petty power. What could
                        > be
                        > > > more painful than
                        > > > > this?
                        > > > > 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious
                        > you
                        > > > will enjoy the
                        > > > > earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to
                        > fight.
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        ______________________________________________________________________
                        > ______________
                        > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                        > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >



                        ____________________________________________________________________________________
                        Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                        http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                      • sean tremblay
                        to bad that idea didn t make to the guys with the ammonium nitrate. I do realize that the most violent segments of any religion realy are a minority. Was it
                        Message 11 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
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                          to bad that idea didn't make to the guys with the
                          ammonium nitrate.
                          I do realize that the most violent segments of any
                          religion realy are a minority. Was it Socrates who
                          said there have always coexisted two religions one for
                          the masses and one for the initiate? any way it was
                          one of the great greeks
                          --- Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:

                          > The Islamic concept of jihad
                          > is understood in a similarly
                          > bifurcated way -- Muslim
                          > moderates tend to see it as
                          > referring to an inner
                          > struggle toward understanding
                          > and righteousness, while
                          > various fundy factions
                          > interpret it literally as war
                          > against "infidels" on behalf
                          > of Islam itself.
                          >
                          >
                          > sean tremblay wrote:
                          > > yep, I understand it both ways
                          > > --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >> Sean -
                          > >>
                          > >> Krisna's advice to Arjuna is
                          > >> in the context of consciousness.
                          > >> The battleground is the mind
                          > >> and the concepts that the illusory
                          > >> and secondary identity (ego)
                          > >> finds so precious.
                          > >>
                          > >> Enlightenment - in one aspect, the
                          > >> victory over ego attachments - reveals
                          > >> a primary identity that has absolute
                          > >> clarity and no unanswered questions
                          > >> ...nothing to resolve...perfect peace
                          > >> of mind and utter tranquility.
                          > >>
                          > >> Jeff
                          > >>
                          > >>
                          > >> --- In
                          > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                          > >> sean tremblay
                          > >> <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                          > >>
                          > >>> And has been the rallying battle cry of all
                          > >>>
                          > >> commanders
                          > >>
                          > >>> to the troops of all nations who make war!
                          > >>> In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a
                          > military
                          > >>> sense, this is something I myself have struggled
                          > >>>
                          > >> with.
                          > >>
                          > >>> I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma
                          > is
                          > >>>
                          > >> to
                          > >>
                          > >>> explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
                          > >>> insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
                          > >>> soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
                          > >>> anarchist at heart with a didain for authority
                          > and
                          > >>>
                          > >> a
                          > >>
                          > >>> dislike of possesing authority over others
                          > yet....
                          > >>>
                          > >> I
                          > >>
                          > >>> find the military in some form or other keeps
                          > >>>
                          > >> creeping
                          > >>
                          > >>> it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I
                          > must
                          > >>> break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
                          > >>> --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
                          > >>>
                          > >>>
                          > >>>> Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>> westwindwood2003 wrote:
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>>> Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                          > >>>>> 31. One is born into the class of people that
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>> fight for
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>>> righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>> duty, so look at not
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>>> to waver.
                          > >>>>> 32. It has happened at this time that the gift
                          > >>>>>
                          > >> of
                          > >>
                          > >>>> enlightenment is
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>>> apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go
                          > >>>>>
                          > >> into
                          > >>
                          > >>>> this battle.
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>>> 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare
                          > >>>>>
                          > >> that
                          > >>
                          > >>>> is you fame, your
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>>> duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                          > >>>>> 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>> honored and this
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>>> everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>> 35. Other warriors who have experienced
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>> enlightenment and currently
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>>> hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>> light weigh for
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>>> withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>> 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>> will say your enemies
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>>> will criticize your petty power. What could
                          > >>>>>
                          > >> be
                          > >>
                          > >>>> more painful than
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>>> this?
                          > >>>>> 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious
                          > >>>>>
                          > >> you
                          > >>
                          > >>>> will enjoy the
                          > >>>>
                          > >>>>> earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to
                          > >>>>>
                          > >> fight.
                          > >>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>>
                          > >>>>
                          >
                          >


                          ____________________________________________________________________________________
                          Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                          http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                        • Bruce Morgen
                          The Islamic concept of jihad is understood in a similarly bifurcated way -- Muslim moderates tend to see it as referring to an inner struggle toward
                          Message 12 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
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                            The Islamic concept of jihad
                            is understood in a similarly
                            bifurcated way -- Muslim
                            moderates tend to see it as
                            referring to an inner
                            struggle toward understanding
                            and righteousness, while
                            various fundy factions
                            interpret it literally as war
                            against "infidels" on behalf
                            of Islam itself.


                            sean tremblay wrote:
                            > yep, I understand it both ways
                            > --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >> Sean -
                            >>
                            >> Krisna's advice to Arjuna is
                            >> in the context of consciousness.
                            >> The battleground is the mind
                            >> and the concepts that the illusory
                            >> and secondary identity (ego)
                            >> finds so precious.
                            >>
                            >> Enlightenment - in one aspect, the
                            >> victory over ego attachments - reveals
                            >> a primary identity that has absolute
                            >> clarity and no unanswered questions
                            >> ...nothing to resolve...perfect peace
                            >> of mind and utter tranquility.
                            >>
                            >> Jeff
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                            >> sean tremblay
                            >> <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                            >>
                            >>> And has been the rallying battle cry of all
                            >>>
                            >> commanders
                            >>
                            >>> to the troops of all nations who make war!
                            >>> In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a military
                            >>> sense, this is something I myself have struggled
                            >>>
                            >> with.
                            >>
                            >>> I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma is
                            >>>
                            >> to
                            >>
                            >>> explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
                            >>> insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
                            >>> soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
                            >>> anarchist at heart with a didain for authority and
                            >>>
                            >> a
                            >>
                            >>> dislike of possesing authority over others yet....
                            >>>
                            >> I
                            >>
                            >>> find the military in some form or other keeps
                            >>>
                            >> creeping
                            >>
                            >>> it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I must
                            >>> break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
                            >>> --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>>> Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                            >>>>
                            >>>> westwindwood2003 wrote:
                            >>>>
                            >>>>> Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                            >>>>> 31. One is born into the class of people that
                            >>>>>
                            >>>> fight for
                            >>>>
                            >>>>> righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
                            >>>>>
                            >>>> duty, so look at not
                            >>>>
                            >>>>> to waver.
                            >>>>> 32. It has happened at this time that the gift
                            >>>>>
                            >> of
                            >>
                            >>>> enlightenment is
                            >>>>
                            >>>>> apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go
                            >>>>>
                            >> into
                            >>
                            >>>> this battle.
                            >>>>
                            >>>>> 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare
                            >>>>>
                            >> that
                            >>
                            >>>> is you fame, your
                            >>>>
                            >>>>> duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                            >>>>> 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
                            >>>>>
                            >>>> honored and this
                            >>>>
                            >>>>> everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>> 35. Other warriors who have experienced
                            >>>>>
                            >>>> enlightenment and currently
                            >>>>
                            >>>>> hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
                            >>>>>
                            >>>> light weigh for
                            >>>>
                            >>>>> withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>> 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
                            >>>>>
                            >>>> will say your enemies
                            >>>>
                            >>>>> will criticize your petty power. What could
                            >>>>>
                            >> be
                            >>
                            >>>> more painful than
                            >>>>
                            >>>>> this?
                            >>>>> 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious
                            >>>>>
                            >> you
                            >>
                            >>>> will enjoy the
                            >>>>
                            >>>>> earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to
                            >>>>>
                            >> fight.
                            >>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>>
                            >>>>
                          • westwindwood2003
                            38. Engage yourself in this battle where pain and pleasure, gain and loss, victory and defeat matter not. You incur no sin because all these pairs are
                            Message 13 of 28 , Mar 30, 2008
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                              38. Engage yourself in this battle where pain and pleasure, gain and
                              loss, victory and defeat matter not. You incur no sin because all
                              these pairs are released (let go of) in this battle for wisdom (right
                              behavior).

                              When you experience enlightenment, knowledge of how you should
                              conduct your affairs is presented to you in meditation; you offer up
                              the positive and negative feelings that have surfaced in meditation
                              and ask for guidance. Your desire for a particular outcome is
                              totally let go of and the insight of how you should proceed is given
                              to you.

                              39. Listen up Arjuna; taking up the yoke of Yoga means absolutely
                              adhering to the Wisdom the yoga presents to you, and in doing so, the
                              bondage of karma shall be removed.

                              You will follow a wisdom not found in your own personality, something
                              much better than your nature, and you will be changed for the better.

                              40. In this most feeble of efforts there is no production of
                              unfortunate results, even with uneven application, this duty protects
                              against great fear.

                              It has been a while since I started meditation, but I remember.
                              Meditation was such a feeble tentative effort because of my karma, my
                              condition. However, I was urged to continue by a wise person, and a
                              tiny start was all it took; it was a beginning with good results. I
                              did have great fear because I was so out of my comfort zone; having
                              what I thought was control of my destiny (hah, what an illusion that
                              is with all the self induced pain). So I worked on cultivating the
                              relationship (I was uneven in the application because I LIKED the
                              familiarity of my nature) with that Wisdom I had found, and with the
                              procedure of doing meditation came calmness, the determination to do
                              the right thing in giving up my karmic tendencies because life was
                              better that way. The fear left soon on, but the propensities still
                              persisted for many years and required much work.

                              41. One pointed determination is the destiny of Arjuna (Oh the joy of
                              the Kurus is he) because there is always a single answer for any
                              specific problem. There is but one decision for a problem since he
                              has taken to the spiritual battlefield. The mind not centered on the
                              spiritual has much recourse, and multiple choices to resolve, but
                              nothing becomes fixed as a solution.

                              The wisdom in meditation is always consistent (you present the same
                              problem again, and you get the same answer again), the answer hurts
                              no one, and is really hard to do the new behavior to change the
                              personality (and work out karma). The intellectual mind thinks of
                              many solutions to a problem, which to choose? The emotional mind can
                              be in chaos with all the feelings that surface, but the feelings come
                              to one point with enough meditation, and then come the offering up of
                              the issue to receive the wisdom on how to proceed.
                            • westwindwood2003
                              ... battlefield ... a ... he ... archery ... then ... other, ... Lots ... to ... in ... really ... enjoyment ... part ... family ... this ... to ... right ...
                              Message 14 of 28 , Apr 6, 2008
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                                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
                                <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Chapter I
                                > The Bhagavad Gita, which I shall call the Gita hereafter has been
                                > called the Bible of India. The setting of the Gita is a
                                battlefield
                                > where Sri Krishna has promised to help both sides. There are two
                                > choices; one side gets the wherewithal of earthly endeavors while
                                > Krishna offers to place his unarmed self on the other side. Arjuna
                                > is first and chooses Krishna, and Duryodhana is relieved because he
                                > gets all the resources of the world. So, the armies gather on the
                                > field where previous religious sacrifices have made the battlefield
                                a
                                > spiritual place. When Duryodhana sees the army Arjuna is part of,
                                he
                                > notes strong warriors, but states he also has the same on his side
                                > and so states to his preceptor, a Brahman who has also taught
                                archery
                                > to some of those in the army associated with Arjuna. Duryodhana
                                then
                                > goes on to brag about how huge his army is and how meager the
                                other,
                                > but uses words that can also mean huge and disorganized, thrown
                                > together willy-nilly, compared to compact and well disciplined.
                                Lots
                                > of horn blowing commences on both sides, then Arjuna asks Krishna
                                to
                                > place the war chariot between the armies so that he can have a look
                                > at the enemy and then sees relatives on both sides. Arjuna falters
                                in
                                > his resolution to fight. The Gita is allegorical so Arjuna is
                                really
                                > faced with going for the spiritual approach to life and he has to
                                > decide. The spiritual against the human condition with its
                                enjoyment
                                > and pleasures and all his relatives in the army of Duryodhana as
                                part
                                > of that human condition is the choice. Arjuna thinks it would be a
                                > sin to slay these miscreants, but the next few verses go on to say
                                > how nasty these folks really are and how impiety would corrupt
                                family
                                > life if they were allowed to win. Overwhelmed with sorrow for the
                                > coming fight, Arjuna puts down his weapons.
                                >
                                > Chapter II
                                > Arjuna is overcome with compassion, distress and tears; and needs
                                > help. The Lord now speaks for the first time in the Gita and at
                                this
                                > point the real Gita proper is initiated with a statement of the
                                > fundamental message: Arjuna, do not be without strength and yield
                                to
                                > weakness of the heart. Stand up oh scorcher of foes. So Arjuna
                                says:
                                > Lord who is slayer of foes, how can I attack the people in the
                                > opposition who are worthy of worship, one who is verily the
                                > embodiment of chastity and self denial, and the other a man of
                                right
                                > conduct who was my teacher? Wealth and desires of this world would
                                > be tainted with blood. Which is best I do not know, they
                                conquering
                                > us or we them. After slaying them we should not care to live.
                                With
                                > nature overpowered by taint of pity, with mind in confusion about
                                > duty, decisively say what I should do as I am your disciple and You
                                > my refuge. This is significant because before this Arjuna was
                                > concerned about pleasant things, learning, wealth, culture, wives,
                                > progeny, kingdom. Now, he has reoriented to want what is good and
                                > this is a prerequisite for enlightenment. Arjuna says: Nothing I
                                see
                                > would remove grief that dries up my senses, even if I have the most
                                > prosperous kingdom and dominion over the celestials.
                                >
                                > Now a minister to the king whose army is fighting against the army
                                > Arjuna is in has the temporary ability to tell all of the foregoing
                                > to the king even though remote from the battlefield. The minister
                                now
                                > goes on to describe Arjuna as not wanting to fight; however, Arjuna
                                > is one who can control the need for sleep, and this signifies he
                                has
                                > some level of attainment with matters of meditation, and therefore
                                he
                                > is bound to make the correct choice. Arjuna is unlikely to call
                                off
                                > the war although the king wishes he would do so.
                                >
                                > Hrishikesa (Krishna) smiles and now speaks the words to the
                                > despondent one between the two armies.
                                >
                                > Those who should not be grieved for, you have grieved for, although
                                > you have words of wisdom. For the dead, the living, the wise
                                grieve
                                > not. Here Arjuna does not possess the first characteristic of a
                                > Yogi, the integration of thought, speech and action and he is
                                warned
                                > about loosing yoga. Bodies come and go, but the Atman exists both
                                > past and future. The soul in this body experiences childhood, youth
                                > and old age, then moves to another body. The enlightened know this
                                > and death is OK.
                                >
                                > (Chapter II to be continued later)
                                >
                              • westwindwood2003
                                A little background first. Prakriti or the phenomenal universe is delineated in the Vedic teaching. The Vedas identify the phenomenal universe so completely
                                Message 15 of 28 , Jun 3, 2008
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                                  A little background first. Prakriti or the phenomenal universe is
                                  delineated in the Vedic teaching. The Vedas identify the phenomenal
                                  universe so completely that the phenomenal and Vedas are considered
                                  the same essence. The three Gunas are Sattva, Rajas and Tamas and
                                  constitute the Vedas. Sattva is an illumination shining forth from
                                  the individual through knowledge, Rajas characteristics are greed and
                                  selfish activities and Tamas inactivity, delusion, recklessness and
                                  darkness. The three Gunas compete with each other, create unbalance,
                                  and cause the propagation of the phenomenal universe.

                                  What does one then do? The Key is Yoga. In other words, do your
                                  meditation, offer up the work that is yours, perform the prescribed
                                  duty revealed to you and do not desire results one way or the other,
                                  just do the requested action found in meditation. In this way you
                                  will not be a producer of karma. The Gita states:

                                  45. Deal with the three attributes, the Vedas. Be without these three
                                  attributes Oh Arjuna, free from the pairs of opposites, ever remaining
                                  in the Sattva (goodness) free from (the thought of) material
                                  acquisition and preservation, established in the self.


                                  46. In this work, the only right thing for you is not desire the
                                  fruits of your effort. Also at any time, do not let this not wanting
                                  fruits of action be the motive because in not having your attachment
                                  you would let there be an inaction.

                                  Yoga eventually takes a person beyond the three Gunas so that even
                                  Sattva eventually fades as all is worked out.

                                  48. Steadfast in yoga, perform attachment abandonment, Oh Dhananjaya,
                                  in success and failure be the same as yoga is called having an
                                  evenness of mind.

                                  However, this can only be attained by meditation. It is not attained
                                  by act of willpower as the goings on are the doings of the Lord
                                  speaking within and the one who meditates is in the position of a
                                  willing servant. Just do it.
                                • westwindwood2003
                                  49. Action not directed by yoga is by far most inferior. Oh Dhananjaya, the self-seekers, those taking advantage of opportunities without regard for the
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Jun 5, 2008
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                                    49. Action not directed by yoga is by far most
                                    inferior. Oh Dhananjaya, the self-seekers,
                                    those taking advantage of opportunities without
                                    regard for the consequences, have a wretched
                                    existence.

                                    The unaware person lives their life seeking
                                    pleasure, trying to get head. Perhaps something
                                    happens, some calamity or maybe it is just a
                                    realization that life is not right. There is
                                    religion to turn to, religious works and teachers.
                                    Ultimately though, there is the complete giving
                                    over to God, a total offering up of what one is
                                    striving for spiritually and seeking guidance in
                                    deep meditation, a discovery through yoga of
                                    the path to resolution of it all.

                                    50. With meditation comes a calmness of mind,
                                    tranquility. Also, there is wisdom that comes
                                    showing the actions, the feelings even, that
                                    needs to be acted upon to grow. There is
                                    perfection in this life following this path.
                                    Devote yourself to yoga. Good and evil deeds,
                                    how do I know which is which? Pursuing
                                    either should eventually cease. But, it will take
                                    decades to evolve through it all because it is
                                    hard to change ones personality.

                                    Intellectually we have a feeling for what is
                                    right and wrong, but this is action not directed
                                    by yoga and is inferior. For instance, I may
                                    help someone and that seems right to me;
                                    however, I might be keeping that person from
                                    discovering the path because they may not
                                    realize life needs working on. If I do not help
                                    them when I easily can do so, that might seem
                                    wrong. The answer to the proper action is
                                    revealed in meditation.

                                    51. The wise, those who meditate, let go of the
                                    desire, lets answers come when no ego
                                    intervenes, discerns proper action and go
                                    beyond evil, eventually evolving into the nature
                                    that frees them from being bound to birthing
                                    again.
                                  • westwindwood2003
                                    What happens to a yogi? These are active and passive. The following is passive because it just happens without effort. 51. When understanding from your
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Jun 6, 2008
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                                      What happens to a yogi? These are active
                                      and passive. The following is passive
                                      because it just happens without effort.

                                      51. When understanding from your practice
                                      comes, intellectual delusion is bypassed.
                                      You are indifferent to what others said in the
                                      past and what you shall hear in the future.

                                      This just happens automatically because of
                                      the immediate (in this very instant)
                                      Guidance. That Guidance is all there is; the
                                      intellect is inactive.

                                      52. Your intellect analyzes what others say
                                      and you can be confused by the many
                                      options. The yogi; however, can stand
                                      immovable in the Self with steady
                                      understanding of the course of action
                                      needed.
                                    • medit8ionsociety
                                      ... Yo Westwindwood, This and the previous Gita posting are, as usual, very great pointings. I like the term Guidance (with the capital G) as we often see
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Jun 7, 2008
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                                        "westwindwood2003" <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > What happens to a yogi? These are active
                                        > and passive. The following is passive
                                        > because it just happens without effort.
                                        >
                                        > 51. When understanding from your practice
                                        > comes, intellectual delusion is bypassed.
                                        > You are indifferent to what others said in the
                                        > past and what you shall hear in the future.
                                        >
                                        > This just happens automatically because of
                                        > the immediate (in this very instant)
                                        > Guidance. That Guidance is all there is; the
                                        > intellect is inactive.
                                        >
                                        > 52. Your intellect analyzes what others say
                                        > and you can be confused by the many
                                        > options. The yogi; however, can stand
                                        > immovable in the Self with steady
                                        > understanding of the course of action
                                        > needed.
                                        >
                                        Yo Westwindwood,
                                        This and the previous Gita posting are,
                                        as usual, very great pointings. I like
                                        the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
                                        we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
                                        with the term Guidance we also get the
                                        concept that a definitive understanding
                                        takes place that transcends the mind's usual
                                        "it could be like this, or it could be
                                        like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
                                        will be done" reality to take us over (and
                                        inner) and we then automatically let events
                                        of our life proceed as they may without
                                        any inner chattering that commonly brings
                                        us negativity (takes our peace away). And
                                        of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
                                        whatever masks cover this true identity.
                                        So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
                                        Thanks again for sharing.
                                        Peace and blessings,
                                        Bob
                                      • westwindwood2003
                                        I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little getting used to and
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Jun 7, 2008
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                                          I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for
                                          word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little
                                          getting used to and sometimes the English words that are chosen by the
                                          author have several definitions and the author sometime uses the more
                                          obscure definition, so I find I have to use a dictionary some to get
                                          the real meaning. What I then do is try and relate that word for word
                                          English translation to my own meditation experience so that I can
                                          express that translation in a way that is more understandable I hope.
                                          What I find wonderful about the Gita is here are these words that in
                                          a condensed kind of way outlines the spiritual experience, like
                                          lecture notes that a teacher can expand on. Since I meditate myself,
                                          I feel that I can do the subject some justice, but I sometimes wonder
                                          if there might be better words than the ones I use.
                                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety .

                                          > Yo Westwindwood,
                                          > This and the previous Gita posting are,
                                          > as usual, very great pointings. I like
                                          > the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
                                          > we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
                                          > with the term Guidance we also get the
                                          > concept that a definitive understanding
                                          > takes place that transcends the mind's usual
                                          > "it could be like this, or it could be
                                          > like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
                                          > will be done" reality to take us over (and
                                          > inner) and we then automatically let events
                                          > of our life proceed as they may without
                                          > any inner chattering that commonly brings
                                          > us negativity (takes our peace away). And
                                          > of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
                                          > whatever masks cover this true identity.
                                          > So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
                                          > Thanks again for sharing.
                                          > Peace and blessings,
                                          > Bob
                                          >
                                        • suman sk
                                          Thanks for continued posting on the wisdom of Geeta. I read it everyday and find a wonderful insight into the true learning. It is a science in itself but only
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Jun 8, 2008
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                                            Thanks for continued posting on the wisdom of Geeta.

                                            I read it everyday and find a wonderful insight into the true learning.

                                            It is a science in itself but only for the beleiver.

                                            Om and God bless all of us

                                             

                                            Surendra K



                                            --- On Sat, 6/7/08, westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:

                                            From: westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@...>
                                            Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Bhagavad Gita 12
                                            To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                                            Date: Saturday, June 7, 2008, 11:53 PM

                                            I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for
                                            word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little
                                            getting used to and sometimes the English words that are chosen by the
                                            author have several definitions and the author sometime uses the more
                                            obscure definition, so I find I have to use a dictionary some to get
                                            the real meaning. What I then do is try and relate that word for word
                                            English translation to my own meditation experience so that I can
                                            express that translation in a way that is more understandable I hope.
                                            What I find wonderful about the Gita is here are these words that in
                                            a condensed kind of way outlines the spiritual experience, like
                                            lecture notes that a teacher can expand on. Since I meditate myself,
                                            I feel that I can do the subject some justice, but I sometimes wonder
                                            if there might be better words than the ones I use.
                                            --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety .

                                            > Yo Westwindwood,
                                            > This and the previous Gita posting are,
                                            > as usual, very great pointings. I like
                                            > the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
                                            > we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
                                            > with the term Guidance we also get the
                                            > concept that a definitive understanding
                                            > takes place that transcends the mind's usual
                                            > "it could be like this, or it could be
                                            > like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
                                            > will be done" reality to take us over (and
                                            > inner) and we then automatically let events
                                            > of our life proceed as they may without
                                            > any inner chattering that commonly brings
                                            > us negativity (takes our peace away). And
                                            > of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
                                            > whatever masks cover this true identity.
                                            > So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
                                            > Thanks again for sharing.
                                            > Peace and blessings,
                                            > Bob
                                            >


                                          • WestWindWood
                                            54. Arjuna asks a question about the qualities (steady of disposition, consistent in vision) of a sage, (who has merged with the Creator, the nature of that
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Jun 9, 2008
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                                              54. Arjuna asks a question about the
                                              qualities (steady of disposition,
                                              consistent in vision) of a sage, (who
                                              has merged with the Creator, the
                                              nature of that which underlies all
                                              existence). 

                                              The sage, merged into the Creator
                                              beyond the normal conscious state,
                                              we could say in deep meditation,
                                              experiences the qualities of the
                                              Creator.  The sage has, over may
                                              years of evolution, taken these
                                              experiences and incorporated in him,
                                              through proper action and behavior,
                                              the qualities of the Creator so that
                                              the sage became Self. 

                                              This seems like A LOT OF HARD
                                              WORK! But in reality, it is just a
                                              giving up of all those qualities of
                                              personality that are not of the divine
                                              nature.  It seems an agony at the
                                              time, but is nothing looking back,
                                              and why was that I clung to so
                                              important anyway, but it was.


                                              55. Sri Bhagavan (Krishna) said:
                                              All desires of the mind (of ones very
                                              heart) are cast off, Oh Partha, by
                                              becoming the Self by working with
                                              the Self in steady wisdom.

                                              Contact with the Self in meditation
                                              brings a steady wisdom, Oh what to
                                              do about my present situation and
                                              how am I going to work this out,
                                              God's will be done, and so it goes
                                              with an answer coming to me so that
                                              I become more the Self by practicing
                                              proper behavior and letting the Self
                                              emerge in place of the misguided
                                              personality that I have begun with.



                                              56. The mind is unshaken in
                                              adversity, and in pleasure, there is no
                                              latching onto and wanting to retain. 
                                              Free from attachment, fear and anger
                                              is the sage poised in wisdom.

                                              The wisdom found in meditation
                                              allows the sage these characteristics. 
                                              This is just something that happens,
                                              a symptom, not something that the
                                              sage tries to grasp and become, it just
                                              happens because one meditates.


                                            • aideenmck
                                              Belated thanks for these posts helping us to understand the Bhagavad Gita, about which I was almost totally ignorant. Recently, I ve been reading Ram Dass s
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Jun 11, 2008
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                                                Belated thanks for these posts helping us to understand the Bhagavad
                                                Gita, about which I was almost totally ignorant. Recently, I've been
                                                reading Ram Dass's "Paths to God: Living the Bhagavad Gita" - it,
                                                too, is a revelation. Also reading Rumi's poetry, the Coleman Barks
                                                translation. And meeting Theravadin monks, listening to their dharma
                                                talks. Sometimes I feel as if I'm perceiving everything for the
                                                first time. (Where have I been?)
                                                Aideen

                                                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, WestWindWood
                                                <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > 54. Arjuna asks a question about the
                                                > qualities (steady of disposition,
                                                > consistent in vision) of a sage, (who
                                                > has merged with the Creator, the
                                                > nature of that which underlies all
                                                > existence).
                                                >
                                                > The sage, merged into the Creator
                                                > beyond the normal conscious state,
                                                > we could say in deep meditation,
                                                > experiences the qualities of the
                                                > Creator. The sage has, over may
                                                > years of evolution, taken these
                                                > experiences and incorporated in him,
                                                > through proper action and behavior,
                                                > the qualities of the Creator so that
                                                > the sage became Self.
                                                >
                                                > This seems like A LOT OF HARD
                                                > WORK! But in reality, it is just a
                                                > giving up of all those qualities of
                                                > personality that are not of the divine
                                                > nature. It seems an agony at the
                                                > time, but is nothing looking back,
                                                > and why was that I clung to so
                                                > important anyway, but it was.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > 55. Sri Bhagavan (Krishna) said:
                                                > All desires of the mind (of ones very
                                                > heart) are cast off, Oh Partha, by
                                                > becoming the Self by working with
                                                > the Self in steady wisdom.
                                                >
                                                > Contact with the Self in meditation
                                                > brings a steady wisdom, Oh what to
                                                > do about my present situation and
                                                > how am I going to work this out,
                                                > God's will be done, and so it goes
                                                > with an answer coming to me so that
                                                > I become more the Self by practicing
                                                > proper behavior and letting the Self
                                                > emerge in place of the misguided
                                                > personality that I have begun with.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > 56. The mind is unshaken in
                                                > adversity, and in pleasure, there is no
                                                > latching onto and wanting to retain.
                                                > Free from attachment, fear and anger
                                                > is the sage poised in wisdom.
                                                >
                                                > The wisdom found in meditation
                                                > allows the sage these characteristics.
                                                > This is just something that happens,
                                                > a symptom, not something that the
                                                > sage tries to grasp and become, it just
                                                > happens because one meditates.
                                                >
                                              • westwindwood2003
                                                I do not know Sanskrit and so I know that I am not going to always get a translation correct. If I do make a mistake, I do not feel that I am causing any harm
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Jun 14, 2008
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                                                  I do not know Sanskrit and so I know
                                                  that I am not going to always get a
                                                  translation correct. If I do make a
                                                  mistake, I do not feel that I am
                                                  causing any harm because I just wind
                                                  up commenting on a different aspect
                                                  of meditation than what the Gita is
                                                  referring to at that point. However,
                                                  if I do get it wrong on a particular
                                                  passage, I would like to hear about it
                                                  if someone knows I am wrong
                                                  because I might miss some facet of
                                                  meditation that I might not touch on
                                                  later that is important.

                                                  57. Life's many experiences evoke
                                                  thoughts and feelings. However,
                                                  rejoicing in the good and hatred of
                                                  the bad is not in the personality of
                                                  the person who dwells, resides, in
                                                  Wisdom.

                                                  Being with that Wisdom, the one on
                                                  the path feels the situation is not
                                                  defined as good or bad, but God's
                                                  will, and so petitions for the
                                                  Knowledge of right behavior to deal
                                                  wisely in the circumstance.

                                                  58. A tortoise withdraws head and
                                                  limbs when disturbed, and a Yogi,
                                                  when confronted with an attractive
                                                  sight or painful scene reflexively
                                                  pulls in to contemplate the situation
                                                  knowing a moment's reflection
                                                  brings Wisdom.

                                                  59. Seeing an object of desire, a
                                                  person remains abstinent upon
                                                  leaving the longing behind. Even a
                                                  hint of the desirable reaction drops
                                                  away from the person who perceives
                                                  the Supreme.
                                                • westwindwood2003
                                                  60. The wise person strives for perfection; turbulent situations though, the chaos of the day, violently carries away the mind. OK, so don t hesitate to
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Jun 18, 2008
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    60. The wise person strives for
                                                    perfection; turbulent situations
                                                    though, the chaos of the day,
                                                    violently carries away the mind.

                                                    OK, so don't hesitate to meditate!

                                                    61. The yogi controls the chaos of
                                                    the day, these thoughts restrained
                                                    and joined together. Focus on God
                                                    and the yogi's thoughts are settled.

                                                    The turbulent thoughts of the yogi
                                                    are allowed to surface in meditation,
                                                    and the calming effect of the
                                                    meditation experience affects a
                                                    change in the mind (this just happens
                                                    without any attempt at control). With
                                                    the calming, the focus can them be
                                                    brought to God, who then brings
                                                    wisdom allowing the thoughts to be
                                                    settled.

                                                    62. Objects of the senses, (what
                                                    causes the turbulent thoughts of a
                                                    person) cause strong attachment
                                                    because a person has the propensity
                                                    for that particular object of the
                                                    senses. From this attachment comes
                                                    desire and from desire a kind of
                                                    anger, of that is mine,
                                                    possessiveness.

                                                    Attachment caused by their own
                                                    personality, or perhaps we could say
                                                    from their previous karma gives
                                                    material to work on in meditation.

                                                    63. From anger comes delusion and
                                                    from this delusion comes a forgetting
                                                    of facts (memory of what really
                                                    happened or how things are), and
                                                    this loss of reason with impetuous
                                                    behavior, results in death.

                                                    Why am I thinking of a motorcycle
                                                    going 110 mph on a windy country
                                                    road? Actually, this could be most
                                                    anything and usually results in a visit
                                                    from a police officer, or at best
                                                    recognition of out of control feelings
                                                    that need to be worked on in
                                                    meditation.
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