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RE: [Meditation Society of America] The Bhagavad Gita 2

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  • Balasubramanian Radhakrishnan Kumar
    Do not be confused like Arjuna. Live in the NOW . You will experience wonders in this life. Lead the life and do not react to Life Situations ! ...
    Message 1 of 28 , Mar 8 7:08 PM
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      Do not be confused like Arjuna. Live in the "NOW". You will experience wonders in this life. Lead the life and do not react to Life Situations !
      ________________________________
      > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
      > From: westwindwood2003@...
      > Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 19:22:02 +0000
      > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] The Bhagavad Gita 2
      >
      >
      > In the Gita the confusion of Arjuna is confronted with the admonition
      > that he must not be a coward and get on with the battle of fighting
      > evil. Because of my own experience, I can understand his confusion.
      > I was confused myself on my first enlightenment. Before this I had
      > some concept of right and wrong; and I felt like I could deal with
      > life. After that experience, it really was like being placed between
      > the old ways of life with its insolvable hassles and the battle of
      > trying my hardest to follow this new way of life of following what is
      > found in the enlightenment experience. Previously I had some
      > intellectual concept that the two armies existed; however, for the
      > first time I understood that me, myself, and I had to actually make a
      > choice. Before, I did not realize there was a choice. Was I a
      > coward myself? Yes! A comparison is made between my old life and the
      > possibility of this new endeavor; kind of like Arjuna's looking at
      > the good parts the army, which is based on the resources of the
      > physical experience, and looking at the army where Arjuna would
      > always do the right thing absolutely. With first enlightenment there
      > is now a clearly defined choice what was not previously perceived.
      >
      > You may ask, why is this such a big deal, shouldn't a person be able
      > to do this easily? Now consider, you will have to give up the idea
      > that you can deal with pursuing life's pleasures successfully.
      > Forget that completely. You will have these successive enlightenment
      > experiences while meditating always telling you to change who you are
      > by doing some particular task differently from how you would have
      > done so in the past as prompted by your intellect and subconscious
      > feelings. And by the way, subconscious feelings always rule the
      > intellect, the intellect only confirms what the subconscious feelings
      > wanted all along, you just did not realize this until you got into
      > meditation and started to understand how you mind works. I honestly
      > do not know why, but I decided to join the army of righteously doing
      > life. I just knew that I should do it. Maybe Krishna or one of his
      > manifestations was there for me also as a guide as He was for Arjuna.
      > I would also like to point out that this is nothing like a
      > fundamentalist Christian preacher on the bully pulpit stating in a
      > loud voice that you should have FAITH. It is abased on the actual
      > experience of profoundly understanding the differing natures of the
      > two armies, not at an intellectual level, but rather at the deepest
      > feeling level because of the profound experience of enlightenment for
      > the first time.
      >
      >
      >

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    • jogeshwarmahanta
      Geeta appears in Bhishma parva of Mahabhararat. Arjun Plunged into depression and Lord Krishna counselled him to recover. It is a great document on
      Message 2 of 28 , Mar 8 9:41 PM
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        Geeta appears in Bhishma parva of Mahabhararat. Arjun Plunged into
        depression and Lord Krishna counselled him to recover. It is a great
        document on management.It is about higher mental processes and a
        dialogue between Arjun and Lord Krishna. Much before that Arjun had
        learnt ethics from Brihaspati, the guru of gods. So the Geeta is
        beyond the comprehension of common man. Here the objective was to
        recover a great warrior from depression.

        After Mahabharat war Yudhisthir plunged into much worse
        condition. Lord Krishna led him to Bhishma who was in Sarasajaya
        then.Shanti parva and Anushashan parva is a very long dialogue
        between Bhishma and Yudhisdhir. Other brothers were audience. Shanti
        parva is the largest parva in Mahabharat. The two parvas cover
        counselling on every aspect of life including administration.

        So please go through Shanti parva and Anushashana parva. I am sure
        you will enjoy and enrich youself beyond your expectation.
        regards


        --- In
        meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
        <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
        >
        > Chapter I
        > The Bhagavad Gita, which I shall call the Gita hereafter has been
        > called the Bible of India. The setting of the Gita is a
        battlefield
        > where Sri Krishna has promised to help both sides. There are two
        > choices; one side gets the wherewithal of earthly endeavors while
        > Krishna offers to place his unarmed self on the other side.
        Arjuna
        > is first and chooses Krishna, and Duryodhana is relieved because
        he
        > gets all the resources of the world. So, the armies gather on the
        > field where previous religious sacrifices have made the
        battlefield a
        > spiritual place. When Duryodhana sees the army Arjuna is part of,
        he
        > notes strong warriors, but states he also has the same on his side
        > and so states to his preceptor, a Brahman who has also taught
        archery
        > to some of those in the army associated with Arjuna. Duryodhana
        then
        > goes on to brag about how huge his army is and how meager the
        other,
        > but uses words that can also mean huge and disorganized, thrown
        > together willy-nilly, compared to compact and well disciplined.
        Lots
        > of horn blowing commences on both sides, then Arjuna asks Krishna
        to
        > place the war chariot between the armies so that he can have a
        look
        > at the enemy and then sees relatives on both sides. Arjuna falters
        in
        > his resolution to fight. The Gita is allegorical so Arjuna is
        really
        > faced with going for the spiritual approach to life and he has to
        > decide. The spiritual against the human condition with its
        enjoyment
        > and pleasures and all his relatives in the army of Duryodhana as
        part
        > of that human condition is the choice. Arjuna thinks it would be
        a
        > sin to slay these miscreants, but the next few verses go on to say
        > how nasty these folks really are and how impiety would corrupt
        family
        > life if they were allowed to win. Overwhelmed with sorrow for the
        > coming fight, Arjuna puts down his weapons.
        >
        > Chapter II
        > Arjuna is overcome with compassion, distress and tears; and needs
        > help. The Lord now speaks for the first time in the Gita and at
        this
        > point the real Gita proper is initiated with a statement of the
        > fundamental message: Arjuna, do not be without strength and yield
        to
        > weakness of the heart. Stand up oh scorcher of foes. So Arjuna
        says:
        > Lord who is slayer of foes, how can I attack the people in the
        > opposition who are worthy of worship, one who is verily the
        > embodiment of chastity and self denial, and the other a man of
        right
        > conduct who was my teacher? Wealth and desires of this world
        would
        > be tainted with blood. Which is best I do not know, they
        conquering
        > us or we them. After slaying them we should not care to live.
        With
        > nature overpowered by taint of pity, with mind in confusion about
        > duty, decisively say what I should do as I am your disciple and
        You
        > my refuge. This is significant because before this Arjuna was
        > concerned about pleasant things, learning, wealth, culture, wives,
        > progeny, kingdom. Now, he has reoriented to want what is good and
        > this is a prerequisite for enlightenment. Arjuna says: Nothing I
        see
        > would remove grief that dries up my senses, even if I have the
        most
        > prosperous kingdom and dominion over the celestials.
        >
        > Now a minister to the king whose army is fighting against the army
        > Arjuna is in has the temporary ability to tell all of the
        foregoing
        > to the king even though remote from the battlefield. The minister
        now
        > goes on to describe Arjuna as not wanting to fight; however,
        Arjuna
        > is one who can control the need for sleep, and this signifies he
        has
        > some level of attainment with matters of meditation, and therefore
        he
        > is bound to make the correct choice. Arjuna is unlikely to call
        off
        > the war although the king wishes he would do so.
        >
        > Hrishikesa (Krishna) smiles and now speaks the words to the
        > despondent one between the two armies.
        >
        > Those who should not be grieved for, you have grieved for,
        although
        > you have words of wisdom. For the dead, the living, the wise
        grieve
        > not. Here Arjuna does not possess the first characteristic of a
        > Yogi, the integration of thought, speech and action and he is
        warned
        > about loosing yoga. Bodies come and go, but the Atman exists both
        > past and future. The soul in this body experiences childhood,
        youth
        > and old age, then moves to another body. The enlightened know
        this
        > and death is OK.
        >
        > (Chapter II to be continued later)
        >
      • westwindwood2003
        Heat, cold, pleasure, pain, comes and goes, impermanent. Just bear patiently and the person is a star among people. Pleasure and pain does not matter and so
        Message 3 of 28 , Mar 11 7:37 PM
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          Heat, cold, pleasure, pain, comes and goes, impermanent. Just bear
          patiently and the person is a star among people. Pleasure and pain
          does not matter and so the person is fit for immortality. The
          foregoing is not a matter of belief, but of experience. A person who
          is working with enlightenment to improve themselves just takes what
          is happening in their life as stimulation to bring material up to be
          worked on. In doing so they are working toward immortality, giving
          up their desires, letting them evaporate under the influence of the
          enlightenment experience. Now the next line from the Gita seems to
          go in a curious circle, but not really. When I first looked at this,
          I did so intellectually, but then I meditated about it in the
          enlightenment mode. Not of the unreal is being, and not non-being is
          of the real. The knower of truth sees indeed the absolute truth of
          these two. OK, these come out of the meditation experience. There
          is the discovery of the unreal bubbling forth from the desires of the
          subconscious and the being that gives the guidance to the unreal
          desires that cause evolution into the real. The knower of the truth
          understands these two things and the interconnectedness.

          Indestructible indeed that, known by thou whom perceives that all
          this is pervaded; destruction of this imperishable is not possible by
          anyone. Well, if you meditate and are undergoing the repeated
          enlightenment experience, you definitely know that the answers you
          get are imperishable and indestructible, very consistent and you had
          just better do it so that you can evolve towards that, probably
          taking lifetimes. The Gita goes on with this indestructible Atman
          theme for quite a few stanzas and that is what you are working on for
          enlightenment.

          The phenomenal is explained –Having a goal these everlasting bodies
          are manifested with the indestructible and the immeasurable;
          therefore fight O Bharata (Arjuna).

          He who thinks of the self believes in slaying and slain. Both are not
          reality as It slays not, nor is It slain.

          Not born like physical, it does not die or die at any time, this
          having been and will be, not instantly unborn. Eternal, changeless,
          this is ancient and not killed when the body is killed.

          Know indestructible, eternal, who this self unborn, inexhaustible.
          Arjuna, who causes slaying, or causes another to slay?

          Like discarded worn out clothes, other physical bodies are taken, so
          bodies are cast away and the one new entered into.
        • westwindwood2003
          The English translation I am using is The Bhagavad Gita with commentary by Swami Chidbhavananda in case anyone is curious. I believe it is used as a college
          Message 4 of 28 , Mar 17 7:28 PM
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            The English translation I am using is The Bhagavad Gita with
            commentary by Swami Chidbhavananda in case anyone is curious. I
            believe it is used as a college textbook in India. Commencing with
            Chapter 2 Verse 23 and 24:

            Weapons do not cut, fire does not burn and, water not wet and wind
            not dry It (Atman, Self)

            It (Atman, universal) cannot be cut, burnt, wetted, dried; also It is
            eternal, all pervading, stable, immovable, and ancient.

            If a person has never taken up meditation, then these two verses are
            the foundation for their meditation commencement and then the ongoing
            evolution. First off, a person may not be aware that they have a
            soul (Atman), one with the attributes found in Verse 23 so the Gita
            so states that one does. Now Atman can also mean the universal soul,
            which is brought forth in Verse 24. As a person evolves through the
            enlightenment found in meditation, the individual Self of Verse 23
            takes on the characteristics of the universal Atman of Verse 24.

            Verse 25:
            This is said: un-manifested, unthinkable, unchangeable; having known
            this, grieve not.

            However, it is possible to experience the foregoing (Atman) through
            meditation, and therefore grieve not for there is all comfort found
            here. All is taken care of for you.
          • westwindwood2003
            The materialistic standpoint, nothing is permanent, nihilism, atheism, (unorthodox opinions) 26. Consider: And now this constantly aborning, or thinking
            Message 5 of 28 , Mar 19 8:46 PM
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              The materialistic standpoint, nothing is permanent, nihilism,
              atheism, (unorthodox opinions)

              26. Consider: And now this constantly aborning, or thinking death,
              this is inevitable, even then Oh Mighty Armed, do not grieve. (All
              together now, one, two, three, in two part harmony)

              27. Of the born, for certain there is death, and a birth for that
              which is dead, and therefore the matter is inevitable. You aught not
              to grieve. (Life, death, life, death, life, death… one after the
              other as long as there is karma to work out and then nothing at the
              end, or maybe it's just an exchange of one physical entity for
              another over and over again. This is for the materialists, but what
              of enlightenment for thou?)

              28. Un-manifested in the beginning, beings manifested in their middle
              state O Bharatha, un-manifested again in the end, so again what grief
              is there? (Nature dictates there be manifestations, but there is no
              Self through it all)

              The above opinions, although not in agreement with accepted beliefs,
              are examined. Ultimately, no big deal because whatever you believe,
              when you get whacked up the side of the head with enlightenment, then
              you have to accept It and get off your duff, and give up despondency
              or whatever you were clinging to, or believing in, accept It and go
              forth.
            • sean tremblay
              Agreed, belief is just belief and what is,is regardless westwindwood2003 wrote: The materialistic standpoint, nothing is
              Message 6 of 28 , Mar 20 8:48 AM
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                Agreed,
                belief is just belief and what is,is regardless

                westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                The materialistic standpoint, nothing is permanent, nihilism,
                atheism, (unorthodox opinions)

                26. Consider: And now this constantly aborning, or thinking death,
                this is inevitable, even then Oh Mighty Armed, do not grieve. (All
                together now, one, two, three, in two part harmony)

                27. Of the born, for certain there is death, and a birth for that
                which is dead, and therefore the matter is inevitable. You aught not
                to grieve. (Life, death, life, death, life, death… one after the
                other as long as there is karma to work out and then nothing at the
                end, or maybe it's just an exchange of one physical entity for
                another over and over again. This is for the materialists, but what
                of enlightenment for thou?)

                28. Un-manifested in the beginning, beings manifested in their middle
                state O Bharatha, un-manifested again in the end, so again what grief
                is there? (Nature dictates there be manifestations, but there is no
                Self through it all)

                The above opinions, although not in agreement with accepted beliefs,
                are examined. Ultimately, no big deal because whatever you believe,
                when you get whacked up the side of the head with enlightenment, then
                you have to accept It and get off your duff, and give up despondency
                or whatever you were clinging to, or believing in, accept It and go
                forth.



                Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

              • westwindwood2003
                Atman transcends mind, speech, and understanding 29: Enlightenment happens to someone: astonished, awed, in wonder, overwhelmed even; therefore, the speaking
                Message 7 of 28 , Mar 20 9:09 PM
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                  Atman transcends mind, speech, and understanding

                  29: Enlightenment happens to someone: astonished, awed, in wonder,
                  overwhelmed even; therefore, the speaking of this foregoing to another,
                  the superlative words are not nearly enough, and so this other knows
                  not of what is trying to be expressed, the words bring no
                  understanding. To the casual bystanders all this description means
                  nothing whatsoever.

                  30: In all bodies is the indestructible Indweller, O Bharta (Arjuna),
                  grieve not for them at all.

                  Well, since you have the Indweller, you work with yourself so that if
                  It is revealed, the superlative guidance and wisdom presented for the
                  Self to take up, to evolve towards the Indweller's nature will be
                  undertaken.
                • westwindwood2003
                  Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37 31. One is born into the class of people that fight for righteousness, and nothing is higher that this duty, so look at not to
                  Message 8 of 28 , Mar 23 8:29 AM
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                    Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37


                    31. One is born into the class of people that fight for
                    righteousness, and nothing is higher that this duty, so look at not
                    to waver.

                    32. It has happened at this time that the gift of enlightenment is
                    apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go into this battle.

                    33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare that is you fame, your
                    duty, abandonment shall incur sin.

                    34. Your dishonor will be told about by the honored and this
                    everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death

                    35. Other warriors who have experienced enlightenment and currently
                    hold you in high esteem will decide you are a light weigh for
                    withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.

                    36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many will say your enemies
                    will criticize your petty power. What could be more painful than
                    this?

                    37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious you will enjoy the
                    earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to fight.
                  • sandeep chatterjee
                    Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                    Message 9 of 28 , Mar 23 10:00 AM
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                      Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.

                      westwindwood2003 wrote:
                      > Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                      > 31. One is born into the class of people that fight for
                      > righteousness, and nothing is higher that this duty, so look at not
                      > to waver.
                      > 32. It has happened at this time that the gift of enlightenment is
                      > apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go into this battle.
                      > 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare that is you fame, your
                      > duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                      > 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the honored and this
                      > everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                      > 35. Other warriors who have experienced enlightenment and currently
                      > hold you in high esteem will decide you are a light weigh for
                      > withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                      > 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many will say your enemies
                      > will criticize your petty power. What could be more painful than
                      > this?
                      > 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious you will enjoy the
                      > earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to fight.
                      >
                    • sean tremblay
                      And has been the rallying battle cry of all commanders to the troops of all nations who make war! In the context of Ajuna s reluctance in a military sense,
                      Message 10 of 28 , Mar 23 2:33 PM
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                        And has been the rallying battle cry of all commanders
                        to the troops of all nations who make war!
                        In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a military
                        sense, this is something I myself have struggled with.
                        I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma is to
                        explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
                        insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
                        soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
                        anarchist at heart with a didain for authority and a
                        dislike of possesing authority over others yet.... I
                        find the military in some form or other keeps creeping
                        it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I must
                        break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
                        --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:

                        > Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                        >
                        > westwindwood2003 wrote:
                        > > Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                        > > 31. One is born into the class of people that
                        > fight for
                        > > righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
                        > duty, so look at not
                        > > to waver.
                        > > 32. It has happened at this time that the gift of
                        > enlightenment is
                        > > apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go into
                        > this battle.
                        > > 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare that
                        > is you fame, your
                        > > duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                        > > 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
                        > honored and this
                        > > everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                        > > 35. Other warriors who have experienced
                        > enlightenment and currently
                        > > hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
                        > light weigh for
                        > > withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                        > > 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
                        > will say your enemies
                        > > will criticize your petty power. What could be
                        > more painful than
                        > > this?
                        > > 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious you
                        > will enjoy the
                        > > earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to fight.
                        > >
                        >
                        >



                        ____________________________________________________________________________________
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                      • Jeff Belyea
                        Sean - Krisna s advice to Arjuna is in the context of consciousness. The battleground is the mind and the concepts that the illusory and secondary identity
                        Message 11 of 28 , Mar 23 5:44 PM
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                          Sean -

                          Krisna's advice to Arjuna is
                          in the context of consciousness.
                          The battleground is the mind
                          and the concepts that the illusory
                          and secondary identity (ego)
                          finds so precious.

                          Enlightenment - in one aspect, the
                          victory over ego attachments - reveals
                          a primary identity that has absolute
                          clarity and no unanswered questions
                          ...nothing to resolve...perfect peace
                          of mind and utter tranquility.

                          Jeff


                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
                          <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > And has been the rallying battle cry of all commanders
                          > to the troops of all nations who make war!
                          > In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a military
                          > sense, this is something I myself have struggled with.
                          > I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma is to
                          > explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
                          > insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
                          > soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
                          > anarchist at heart with a didain for authority and a
                          > dislike of possesing authority over others yet.... I
                          > find the military in some form or other keeps creeping
                          > it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I must
                          > break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
                          > --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                          > >
                          > > westwindwood2003 wrote:
                          > > > Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                          > > > 31. One is born into the class of people that
                          > > fight for
                          > > > righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
                          > > duty, so look at not
                          > > > to waver.
                          > > > 32. It has happened at this time that the gift of
                          > > enlightenment is
                          > > > apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go into
                          > > this battle.
                          > > > 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare that
                          > > is you fame, your
                          > > > duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                          > > > 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
                          > > honored and this
                          > > > everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                          > > > 35. Other warriors who have experienced
                          > > enlightenment and currently
                          > > > hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
                          > > light weigh for
                          > > > withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                          > > > 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
                          > > will say your enemies
                          > > > will criticize your petty power. What could be
                          > > more painful than
                          > > > this?
                          > > > 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious you
                          > > will enjoy the
                          > > > earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to fight.
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          ______________________________________________________________________
                          ______________
                          > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                          > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                          >
                        • sean tremblay
                          yep, I understand it both ways ... ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your
                          Message 12 of 28 , Mar 23 5:46 PM
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                            yep, I understand it both ways
                            --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:

                            > Sean -
                            >
                            > Krisna's advice to Arjuna is
                            > in the context of consciousness.
                            > The battleground is the mind
                            > and the concepts that the illusory
                            > and secondary identity (ego)
                            > finds so precious.
                            >
                            > Enlightenment - in one aspect, the
                            > victory over ego attachments - reveals
                            > a primary identity that has absolute
                            > clarity and no unanswered questions
                            > ...nothing to resolve...perfect peace
                            > of mind and utter tranquility.
                            >
                            > Jeff
                            >
                            >
                            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                            > sean tremblay
                            > <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > And has been the rallying battle cry of all
                            > commanders
                            > > to the troops of all nations who make war!
                            > > In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a military
                            > > sense, this is something I myself have struggled
                            > with.
                            > > I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma is
                            > to
                            > > explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
                            > > insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
                            > > soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
                            > > anarchist at heart with a didain for authority and
                            > a
                            > > dislike of possesing authority over others yet....
                            > I
                            > > find the military in some form or other keeps
                            > creeping
                            > > it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I must
                            > > break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
                            > > --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                            > > >
                            > > > westwindwood2003 wrote:
                            > > > > Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                            > > > > 31. One is born into the class of people that
                            > > > fight for
                            > > > > righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
                            > > > duty, so look at not
                            > > > > to waver.
                            > > > > 32. It has happened at this time that the gift
                            > of
                            > > > enlightenment is
                            > > > > apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go
                            > into
                            > > > this battle.
                            > > > > 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare
                            > that
                            > > > is you fame, your
                            > > > > duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                            > > > > 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
                            > > > honored and this
                            > > > > everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                            >
                            > > > > 35. Other warriors who have experienced
                            > > > enlightenment and currently
                            > > > > hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
                            > > > light weigh for
                            > > > > withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                            >
                            > > > > 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
                            > > > will say your enemies
                            > > > > will criticize your petty power. What could
                            > be
                            > > > more painful than
                            > > > > this?
                            > > > > 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious
                            > you
                            > > > will enjoy the
                            > > > > earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to
                            > fight.
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            ______________________________________________________________________
                            > ______________
                            > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                            > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >



                            ____________________________________________________________________________________
                            Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                            http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                          • sean tremblay
                            to bad that idea didn t make to the guys with the ammonium nitrate. I do realize that the most violent segments of any religion realy are a minority. Was it
                            Message 13 of 28 , Mar 23 5:57 PM
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                              to bad that idea didn't make to the guys with the
                              ammonium nitrate.
                              I do realize that the most violent segments of any
                              religion realy are a minority. Was it Socrates who
                              said there have always coexisted two religions one for
                              the masses and one for the initiate? any way it was
                              one of the great greeks
                              --- Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:

                              > The Islamic concept of jihad
                              > is understood in a similarly
                              > bifurcated way -- Muslim
                              > moderates tend to see it as
                              > referring to an inner
                              > struggle toward understanding
                              > and righteousness, while
                              > various fundy factions
                              > interpret it literally as war
                              > against "infidels" on behalf
                              > of Islam itself.
                              >
                              >
                              > sean tremblay wrote:
                              > > yep, I understand it both ways
                              > > --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >> Sean -
                              > >>
                              > >> Krisna's advice to Arjuna is
                              > >> in the context of consciousness.
                              > >> The battleground is the mind
                              > >> and the concepts that the illusory
                              > >> and secondary identity (ego)
                              > >> finds so precious.
                              > >>
                              > >> Enlightenment - in one aspect, the
                              > >> victory over ego attachments - reveals
                              > >> a primary identity that has absolute
                              > >> clarity and no unanswered questions
                              > >> ...nothing to resolve...perfect peace
                              > >> of mind and utter tranquility.
                              > >>
                              > >> Jeff
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >> --- In
                              > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                              > >> sean tremblay
                              > >> <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                              > >>
                              > >>> And has been the rallying battle cry of all
                              > >>>
                              > >> commanders
                              > >>
                              > >>> to the troops of all nations who make war!
                              > >>> In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a
                              > military
                              > >>> sense, this is something I myself have struggled
                              > >>>
                              > >> with.
                              > >>
                              > >>> I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma
                              > is
                              > >>>
                              > >> to
                              > >>
                              > >>> explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
                              > >>> insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
                              > >>> soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
                              > >>> anarchist at heart with a didain for authority
                              > and
                              > >>>
                              > >> a
                              > >>
                              > >>> dislike of possesing authority over others
                              > yet....
                              > >>>
                              > >> I
                              > >>
                              > >>> find the military in some form or other keeps
                              > >>>
                              > >> creeping
                              > >>
                              > >>> it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I
                              > must
                              > >>> break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
                              > >>> --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>> Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                              > >>>>
                              > >>>> westwindwood2003 wrote:
                              > >>>>
                              > >>>>> Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                              > >>>>> 31. One is born into the class of people that
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>> fight for
                              > >>>>
                              > >>>>> righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>> duty, so look at not
                              > >>>>
                              > >>>>> to waver.
                              > >>>>> 32. It has happened at this time that the gift
                              > >>>>>
                              > >> of
                              > >>
                              > >>>> enlightenment is
                              > >>>>
                              > >>>>> apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go
                              > >>>>>
                              > >> into
                              > >>
                              > >>>> this battle.
                              > >>>>
                              > >>>>> 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare
                              > >>>>>
                              > >> that
                              > >>
                              > >>>> is you fame, your
                              > >>>>
                              > >>>>> duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                              > >>>>> 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>> honored and this
                              > >>>>
                              > >>>>> everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>> 35. Other warriors who have experienced
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>> enlightenment and currently
                              > >>>>
                              > >>>>> hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>> light weigh for
                              > >>>>
                              > >>>>> withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>> 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>> will say your enemies
                              > >>>>
                              > >>>>> will criticize your petty power. What could
                              > >>>>>
                              > >> be
                              > >>
                              > >>>> more painful than
                              > >>>>
                              > >>>>> this?
                              > >>>>> 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious
                              > >>>>>
                              > >> you
                              > >>
                              > >>>> will enjoy the
                              > >>>>
                              > >>>>> earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to
                              > >>>>>
                              > >> fight.
                              > >>
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>>
                              > >>>>
                              >
                              >


                              ____________________________________________________________________________________
                              Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                              http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                            • Bruce Morgen
                              The Islamic concept of jihad is understood in a similarly bifurcated way -- Muslim moderates tend to see it as referring to an inner struggle toward
                              Message 14 of 28 , Mar 23 6:51 PM
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                                The Islamic concept of jihad
                                is understood in a similarly
                                bifurcated way -- Muslim
                                moderates tend to see it as
                                referring to an inner
                                struggle toward understanding
                                and righteousness, while
                                various fundy factions
                                interpret it literally as war
                                against "infidels" on behalf
                                of Islam itself.


                                sean tremblay wrote:
                                > yep, I understand it both ways
                                > --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >> Sean -
                                >>
                                >> Krisna's advice to Arjuna is
                                >> in the context of consciousness.
                                >> The battleground is the mind
                                >> and the concepts that the illusory
                                >> and secondary identity (ego)
                                >> finds so precious.
                                >>
                                >> Enlightenment - in one aspect, the
                                >> victory over ego attachments - reveals
                                >> a primary identity that has absolute
                                >> clarity and no unanswered questions
                                >> ...nothing to resolve...perfect peace
                                >> of mind and utter tranquility.
                                >>
                                >> Jeff
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                >> sean tremblay
                                >> <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                                >>
                                >>> And has been the rallying battle cry of all
                                >>>
                                >> commanders
                                >>
                                >>> to the troops of all nations who make war!
                                >>> In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a military
                                >>> sense, this is something I myself have struggled
                                >>>
                                >> with.
                                >>
                                >>> I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma is
                                >>>
                                >> to
                                >>
                                >>> explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
                                >>> insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
                                >>> soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
                                >>> anarchist at heart with a didain for authority and
                                >>>
                                >> a
                                >>
                                >>> dislike of possesing authority over others yet....
                                >>>
                                >> I
                                >>
                                >>> find the military in some form or other keeps
                                >>>
                                >> creeping
                                >>
                                >>> it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I must
                                >>> break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
                                >>> --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
                                >>>
                                >>>
                                >>>> Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                                >>>>
                                >>>> westwindwood2003 wrote:
                                >>>>
                                >>>>> Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                                >>>>> 31. One is born into the class of people that
                                >>>>>
                                >>>> fight for
                                >>>>
                                >>>>> righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
                                >>>>>
                                >>>> duty, so look at not
                                >>>>
                                >>>>> to waver.
                                >>>>> 32. It has happened at this time that the gift
                                >>>>>
                                >> of
                                >>
                                >>>> enlightenment is
                                >>>>
                                >>>>> apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go
                                >>>>>
                                >> into
                                >>
                                >>>> this battle.
                                >>>>
                                >>>>> 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare
                                >>>>>
                                >> that
                                >>
                                >>>> is you fame, your
                                >>>>
                                >>>>> duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                                >>>>> 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
                                >>>>>
                                >>>> honored and this
                                >>>>
                                >>>>> everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                                >>>>>
                                >>>>> 35. Other warriors who have experienced
                                >>>>>
                                >>>> enlightenment and currently
                                >>>>
                                >>>>> hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
                                >>>>>
                                >>>> light weigh for
                                >>>>
                                >>>>> withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                                >>>>>
                                >>>>> 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
                                >>>>>
                                >>>> will say your enemies
                                >>>>
                                >>>>> will criticize your petty power. What could
                                >>>>>
                                >> be
                                >>
                                >>>> more painful than
                                >>>>
                                >>>>> this?
                                >>>>> 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious
                                >>>>>
                                >> you
                                >>
                                >>>> will enjoy the
                                >>>>
                                >>>>> earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to
                                >>>>>
                                >> fight.
                                >>
                                >>>>>
                                >>>>>
                                >>>>
                              • westwindwood2003
                                38. Engage yourself in this battle where pain and pleasure, gain and loss, victory and defeat matter not. You incur no sin because all these pairs are
                                Message 15 of 28 , Mar 30 10:29 PM
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                                  38. Engage yourself in this battle where pain and pleasure, gain and
                                  loss, victory and defeat matter not. You incur no sin because all
                                  these pairs are released (let go of) in this battle for wisdom (right
                                  behavior).

                                  When you experience enlightenment, knowledge of how you should
                                  conduct your affairs is presented to you in meditation; you offer up
                                  the positive and negative feelings that have surfaced in meditation
                                  and ask for guidance. Your desire for a particular outcome is
                                  totally let go of and the insight of how you should proceed is given
                                  to you.

                                  39. Listen up Arjuna; taking up the yoke of Yoga means absolutely
                                  adhering to the Wisdom the yoga presents to you, and in doing so, the
                                  bondage of karma shall be removed.

                                  You will follow a wisdom not found in your own personality, something
                                  much better than your nature, and you will be changed for the better.

                                  40. In this most feeble of efforts there is no production of
                                  unfortunate results, even with uneven application, this duty protects
                                  against great fear.

                                  It has been a while since I started meditation, but I remember.
                                  Meditation was such a feeble tentative effort because of my karma, my
                                  condition. However, I was urged to continue by a wise person, and a
                                  tiny start was all it took; it was a beginning with good results. I
                                  did have great fear because I was so out of my comfort zone; having
                                  what I thought was control of my destiny (hah, what an illusion that
                                  is with all the self induced pain). So I worked on cultivating the
                                  relationship (I was uneven in the application because I LIKED the
                                  familiarity of my nature) with that Wisdom I had found, and with the
                                  procedure of doing meditation came calmness, the determination to do
                                  the right thing in giving up my karmic tendencies because life was
                                  better that way. The fear left soon on, but the propensities still
                                  persisted for many years and required much work.

                                  41. One pointed determination is the destiny of Arjuna (Oh the joy of
                                  the Kurus is he) because there is always a single answer for any
                                  specific problem. There is but one decision for a problem since he
                                  has taken to the spiritual battlefield. The mind not centered on the
                                  spiritual has much recourse, and multiple choices to resolve, but
                                  nothing becomes fixed as a solution.

                                  The wisdom in meditation is always consistent (you present the same
                                  problem again, and you get the same answer again), the answer hurts
                                  no one, and is really hard to do the new behavior to change the
                                  personality (and work out karma). The intellectual mind thinks of
                                  many solutions to a problem, which to choose? The emotional mind can
                                  be in chaos with all the feelings that surface, but the feelings come
                                  to one point with enough meditation, and then come the offering up of
                                  the issue to receive the wisdom on how to proceed.
                                • westwindwood2003
                                  ... battlefield ... a ... he ... archery ... then ... other, ... Lots ... to ... in ... really ... enjoyment ... part ... family ... this ... to ... right ...
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Apr 6, 2008
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                                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
                                    <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Chapter I
                                    > The Bhagavad Gita, which I shall call the Gita hereafter has been
                                    > called the Bible of India. The setting of the Gita is a
                                    battlefield
                                    > where Sri Krishna has promised to help both sides. There are two
                                    > choices; one side gets the wherewithal of earthly endeavors while
                                    > Krishna offers to place his unarmed self on the other side. Arjuna
                                    > is first and chooses Krishna, and Duryodhana is relieved because he
                                    > gets all the resources of the world. So, the armies gather on the
                                    > field where previous religious sacrifices have made the battlefield
                                    a
                                    > spiritual place. When Duryodhana sees the army Arjuna is part of,
                                    he
                                    > notes strong warriors, but states he also has the same on his side
                                    > and so states to his preceptor, a Brahman who has also taught
                                    archery
                                    > to some of those in the army associated with Arjuna. Duryodhana
                                    then
                                    > goes on to brag about how huge his army is and how meager the
                                    other,
                                    > but uses words that can also mean huge and disorganized, thrown
                                    > together willy-nilly, compared to compact and well disciplined.
                                    Lots
                                    > of horn blowing commences on both sides, then Arjuna asks Krishna
                                    to
                                    > place the war chariot between the armies so that he can have a look
                                    > at the enemy and then sees relatives on both sides. Arjuna falters
                                    in
                                    > his resolution to fight. The Gita is allegorical so Arjuna is
                                    really
                                    > faced with going for the spiritual approach to life and he has to
                                    > decide. The spiritual against the human condition with its
                                    enjoyment
                                    > and pleasures and all his relatives in the army of Duryodhana as
                                    part
                                    > of that human condition is the choice. Arjuna thinks it would be a
                                    > sin to slay these miscreants, but the next few verses go on to say
                                    > how nasty these folks really are and how impiety would corrupt
                                    family
                                    > life if they were allowed to win. Overwhelmed with sorrow for the
                                    > coming fight, Arjuna puts down his weapons.
                                    >
                                    > Chapter II
                                    > Arjuna is overcome with compassion, distress and tears; and needs
                                    > help. The Lord now speaks for the first time in the Gita and at
                                    this
                                    > point the real Gita proper is initiated with a statement of the
                                    > fundamental message: Arjuna, do not be without strength and yield
                                    to
                                    > weakness of the heart. Stand up oh scorcher of foes. So Arjuna
                                    says:
                                    > Lord who is slayer of foes, how can I attack the people in the
                                    > opposition who are worthy of worship, one who is verily the
                                    > embodiment of chastity and self denial, and the other a man of
                                    right
                                    > conduct who was my teacher? Wealth and desires of this world would
                                    > be tainted with blood. Which is best I do not know, they
                                    conquering
                                    > us or we them. After slaying them we should not care to live.
                                    With
                                    > nature overpowered by taint of pity, with mind in confusion about
                                    > duty, decisively say what I should do as I am your disciple and You
                                    > my refuge. This is significant because before this Arjuna was
                                    > concerned about pleasant things, learning, wealth, culture, wives,
                                    > progeny, kingdom. Now, he has reoriented to want what is good and
                                    > this is a prerequisite for enlightenment. Arjuna says: Nothing I
                                    see
                                    > would remove grief that dries up my senses, even if I have the most
                                    > prosperous kingdom and dominion over the celestials.
                                    >
                                    > Now a minister to the king whose army is fighting against the army
                                    > Arjuna is in has the temporary ability to tell all of the foregoing
                                    > to the king even though remote from the battlefield. The minister
                                    now
                                    > goes on to describe Arjuna as not wanting to fight; however, Arjuna
                                    > is one who can control the need for sleep, and this signifies he
                                    has
                                    > some level of attainment with matters of meditation, and therefore
                                    he
                                    > is bound to make the correct choice. Arjuna is unlikely to call
                                    off
                                    > the war although the king wishes he would do so.
                                    >
                                    > Hrishikesa (Krishna) smiles and now speaks the words to the
                                    > despondent one between the two armies.
                                    >
                                    > Those who should not be grieved for, you have grieved for, although
                                    > you have words of wisdom. For the dead, the living, the wise
                                    grieve
                                    > not. Here Arjuna does not possess the first characteristic of a
                                    > Yogi, the integration of thought, speech and action and he is
                                    warned
                                    > about loosing yoga. Bodies come and go, but the Atman exists both
                                    > past and future. The soul in this body experiences childhood, youth
                                    > and old age, then moves to another body. The enlightened know this
                                    > and death is OK.
                                    >
                                    > (Chapter II to be continued later)
                                    >
                                  • westwindwood2003
                                    A little background first. Prakriti or the phenomenal universe is delineated in the Vedic teaching. The Vedas identify the phenomenal universe so completely
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Jun 3, 2008
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                                      A little background first. Prakriti or the phenomenal universe is
                                      delineated in the Vedic teaching. The Vedas identify the phenomenal
                                      universe so completely that the phenomenal and Vedas are considered
                                      the same essence. The three Gunas are Sattva, Rajas and Tamas and
                                      constitute the Vedas. Sattva is an illumination shining forth from
                                      the individual through knowledge, Rajas characteristics are greed and
                                      selfish activities and Tamas inactivity, delusion, recklessness and
                                      darkness. The three Gunas compete with each other, create unbalance,
                                      and cause the propagation of the phenomenal universe.

                                      What does one then do? The Key is Yoga. In other words, do your
                                      meditation, offer up the work that is yours, perform the prescribed
                                      duty revealed to you and do not desire results one way or the other,
                                      just do the requested action found in meditation. In this way you
                                      will not be a producer of karma. The Gita states:

                                      45. Deal with the three attributes, the Vedas. Be without these three
                                      attributes Oh Arjuna, free from the pairs of opposites, ever remaining
                                      in the Sattva (goodness) free from (the thought of) material
                                      acquisition and preservation, established in the self.


                                      46. In this work, the only right thing for you is not desire the
                                      fruits of your effort. Also at any time, do not let this not wanting
                                      fruits of action be the motive because in not having your attachment
                                      you would let there be an inaction.

                                      Yoga eventually takes a person beyond the three Gunas so that even
                                      Sattva eventually fades as all is worked out.

                                      48. Steadfast in yoga, perform attachment abandonment, Oh Dhananjaya,
                                      in success and failure be the same as yoga is called having an
                                      evenness of mind.

                                      However, this can only be attained by meditation. It is not attained
                                      by act of willpower as the goings on are the doings of the Lord
                                      speaking within and the one who meditates is in the position of a
                                      willing servant. Just do it.
                                    • westwindwood2003
                                      49. Action not directed by yoga is by far most inferior. Oh Dhananjaya, the self-seekers, those taking advantage of opportunities without regard for the
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Jun 5, 2008
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                                        49. Action not directed by yoga is by far most
                                        inferior. Oh Dhananjaya, the self-seekers,
                                        those taking advantage of opportunities without
                                        regard for the consequences, have a wretched
                                        existence.

                                        The unaware person lives their life seeking
                                        pleasure, trying to get head. Perhaps something
                                        happens, some calamity or maybe it is just a
                                        realization that life is not right. There is
                                        religion to turn to, religious works and teachers.
                                        Ultimately though, there is the complete giving
                                        over to God, a total offering up of what one is
                                        striving for spiritually and seeking guidance in
                                        deep meditation, a discovery through yoga of
                                        the path to resolution of it all.

                                        50. With meditation comes a calmness of mind,
                                        tranquility. Also, there is wisdom that comes
                                        showing the actions, the feelings even, that
                                        needs to be acted upon to grow. There is
                                        perfection in this life following this path.
                                        Devote yourself to yoga. Good and evil deeds,
                                        how do I know which is which? Pursuing
                                        either should eventually cease. But, it will take
                                        decades to evolve through it all because it is
                                        hard to change ones personality.

                                        Intellectually we have a feeling for what is
                                        right and wrong, but this is action not directed
                                        by yoga and is inferior. For instance, I may
                                        help someone and that seems right to me;
                                        however, I might be keeping that person from
                                        discovering the path because they may not
                                        realize life needs working on. If I do not help
                                        them when I easily can do so, that might seem
                                        wrong. The answer to the proper action is
                                        revealed in meditation.

                                        51. The wise, those who meditate, let go of the
                                        desire, lets answers come when no ego
                                        intervenes, discerns proper action and go
                                        beyond evil, eventually evolving into the nature
                                        that frees them from being bound to birthing
                                        again.
                                      • westwindwood2003
                                        What happens to a yogi? These are active and passive. The following is passive because it just happens without effort. 51. When understanding from your
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Jun 6, 2008
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                                          What happens to a yogi? These are active
                                          and passive. The following is passive
                                          because it just happens without effort.

                                          51. When understanding from your practice
                                          comes, intellectual delusion is bypassed.
                                          You are indifferent to what others said in the
                                          past and what you shall hear in the future.

                                          This just happens automatically because of
                                          the immediate (in this very instant)
                                          Guidance. That Guidance is all there is; the
                                          intellect is inactive.

                                          52. Your intellect analyzes what others say
                                          and you can be confused by the many
                                          options. The yogi; however, can stand
                                          immovable in the Self with steady
                                          understanding of the course of action
                                          needed.
                                        • medit8ionsociety
                                          ... Yo Westwindwood, This and the previous Gita posting are, as usual, very great pointings. I like the term Guidance (with the capital G) as we often see
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Jun 7, 2008
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                                            "westwindwood2003" <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > What happens to a yogi? These are active
                                            > and passive. The following is passive
                                            > because it just happens without effort.
                                            >
                                            > 51. When understanding from your practice
                                            > comes, intellectual delusion is bypassed.
                                            > You are indifferent to what others said in the
                                            > past and what you shall hear in the future.
                                            >
                                            > This just happens automatically because of
                                            > the immediate (in this very instant)
                                            > Guidance. That Guidance is all there is; the
                                            > intellect is inactive.
                                            >
                                            > 52. Your intellect analyzes what others say
                                            > and you can be confused by the many
                                            > options. The yogi; however, can stand
                                            > immovable in the Self with steady
                                            > understanding of the course of action
                                            > needed.
                                            >
                                            Yo Westwindwood,
                                            This and the previous Gita posting are,
                                            as usual, very great pointings. I like
                                            the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
                                            we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
                                            with the term Guidance we also get the
                                            concept that a definitive understanding
                                            takes place that transcends the mind's usual
                                            "it could be like this, or it could be
                                            like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
                                            will be done" reality to take us over (and
                                            inner) and we then automatically let events
                                            of our life proceed as they may without
                                            any inner chattering that commonly brings
                                            us negativity (takes our peace away). And
                                            of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
                                            whatever masks cover this true identity.
                                            So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
                                            Thanks again for sharing.
                                            Peace and blessings,
                                            Bob
                                          • westwindwood2003
                                            I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little getting used to and
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Jun 7, 2008
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                                              I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for
                                              word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little
                                              getting used to and sometimes the English words that are chosen by the
                                              author have several definitions and the author sometime uses the more
                                              obscure definition, so I find I have to use a dictionary some to get
                                              the real meaning. What I then do is try and relate that word for word
                                              English translation to my own meditation experience so that I can
                                              express that translation in a way that is more understandable I hope.
                                              What I find wonderful about the Gita is here are these words that in
                                              a condensed kind of way outlines the spiritual experience, like
                                              lecture notes that a teacher can expand on. Since I meditate myself,
                                              I feel that I can do the subject some justice, but I sometimes wonder
                                              if there might be better words than the ones I use.
                                              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety .

                                              > Yo Westwindwood,
                                              > This and the previous Gita posting are,
                                              > as usual, very great pointings. I like
                                              > the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
                                              > we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
                                              > with the term Guidance we also get the
                                              > concept that a definitive understanding
                                              > takes place that transcends the mind's usual
                                              > "it could be like this, or it could be
                                              > like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
                                              > will be done" reality to take us over (and
                                              > inner) and we then automatically let events
                                              > of our life proceed as they may without
                                              > any inner chattering that commonly brings
                                              > us negativity (takes our peace away). And
                                              > of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
                                              > whatever masks cover this true identity.
                                              > So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
                                              > Thanks again for sharing.
                                              > Peace and blessings,
                                              > Bob
                                              >
                                            • suman sk
                                              Thanks for continued posting on the wisdom of Geeta. I read it everyday and find a wonderful insight into the true learning. It is a science in itself but only
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Jun 8, 2008
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                                                Thanks for continued posting on the wisdom of Geeta.

                                                I read it everyday and find a wonderful insight into the true learning.

                                                It is a science in itself but only for the beleiver.

                                                Om and God bless all of us

                                                 

                                                Surendra K



                                                --- On Sat, 6/7/08, westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:

                                                From: westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@...>
                                                Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Bhagavad Gita 12
                                                To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                                                Date: Saturday, June 7, 2008, 11:53 PM

                                                I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for
                                                word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little
                                                getting used to and sometimes the English words that are chosen by the
                                                author have several definitions and the author sometime uses the more
                                                obscure definition, so I find I have to use a dictionary some to get
                                                the real meaning. What I then do is try and relate that word for word
                                                English translation to my own meditation experience so that I can
                                                express that translation in a way that is more understandable I hope.
                                                What I find wonderful about the Gita is here are these words that in
                                                a condensed kind of way outlines the spiritual experience, like
                                                lecture notes that a teacher can expand on. Since I meditate myself,
                                                I feel that I can do the subject some justice, but I sometimes wonder
                                                if there might be better words than the ones I use.
                                                --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety .

                                                > Yo Westwindwood,
                                                > This and the previous Gita posting are,
                                                > as usual, very great pointings. I like
                                                > the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
                                                > we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
                                                > with the term Guidance we also get the
                                                > concept that a definitive understanding
                                                > takes place that transcends the mind's usual
                                                > "it could be like this, or it could be
                                                > like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
                                                > will be done" reality to take us over (and
                                                > inner) and we then automatically let events
                                                > of our life proceed as they may without
                                                > any inner chattering that commonly brings
                                                > us negativity (takes our peace away). And
                                                > of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
                                                > whatever masks cover this true identity.
                                                > So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
                                                > Thanks again for sharing.
                                                > Peace and blessings,
                                                > Bob
                                                >


                                              • WestWindWood
                                                54. Arjuna asks a question about the qualities (steady of disposition, consistent in vision) of a sage, (who has merged with the Creator, the nature of that
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Jun 9, 2008
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                                                  54. Arjuna asks a question about the
                                                  qualities (steady of disposition,
                                                  consistent in vision) of a sage, (who
                                                  has merged with the Creator, the
                                                  nature of that which underlies all
                                                  existence). 

                                                  The sage, merged into the Creator
                                                  beyond the normal conscious state,
                                                  we could say in deep meditation,
                                                  experiences the qualities of the
                                                  Creator.  The sage has, over may
                                                  years of evolution, taken these
                                                  experiences and incorporated in him,
                                                  through proper action and behavior,
                                                  the qualities of the Creator so that
                                                  the sage became Self. 

                                                  This seems like A LOT OF HARD
                                                  WORK! But in reality, it is just a
                                                  giving up of all those qualities of
                                                  personality that are not of the divine
                                                  nature.  It seems an agony at the
                                                  time, but is nothing looking back,
                                                  and why was that I clung to so
                                                  important anyway, but it was.


                                                  55. Sri Bhagavan (Krishna) said:
                                                  All desires of the mind (of ones very
                                                  heart) are cast off, Oh Partha, by
                                                  becoming the Self by working with
                                                  the Self in steady wisdom.

                                                  Contact with the Self in meditation
                                                  brings a steady wisdom, Oh what to
                                                  do about my present situation and
                                                  how am I going to work this out,
                                                  God's will be done, and so it goes
                                                  with an answer coming to me so that
                                                  I become more the Self by practicing
                                                  proper behavior and letting the Self
                                                  emerge in place of the misguided
                                                  personality that I have begun with.



                                                  56. The mind is unshaken in
                                                  adversity, and in pleasure, there is no
                                                  latching onto and wanting to retain. 
                                                  Free from attachment, fear and anger
                                                  is the sage poised in wisdom.

                                                  The wisdom found in meditation
                                                  allows the sage these characteristics. 
                                                  This is just something that happens,
                                                  a symptom, not something that the
                                                  sage tries to grasp and become, it just
                                                  happens because one meditates.


                                                • aideenmck
                                                  Belated thanks for these posts helping us to understand the Bhagavad Gita, about which I was almost totally ignorant. Recently, I ve been reading Ram Dass s
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Jun 11, 2008
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                                                    Belated thanks for these posts helping us to understand the Bhagavad
                                                    Gita, about which I was almost totally ignorant. Recently, I've been
                                                    reading Ram Dass's "Paths to God: Living the Bhagavad Gita" - it,
                                                    too, is a revelation. Also reading Rumi's poetry, the Coleman Barks
                                                    translation. And meeting Theravadin monks, listening to their dharma
                                                    talks. Sometimes I feel as if I'm perceiving everything for the
                                                    first time. (Where have I been?)
                                                    Aideen

                                                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, WestWindWood
                                                    <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > 54. Arjuna asks a question about the
                                                    > qualities (steady of disposition,
                                                    > consistent in vision) of a sage, (who
                                                    > has merged with the Creator, the
                                                    > nature of that which underlies all
                                                    > existence).
                                                    >
                                                    > The sage, merged into the Creator
                                                    > beyond the normal conscious state,
                                                    > we could say in deep meditation,
                                                    > experiences the qualities of the
                                                    > Creator. The sage has, over may
                                                    > years of evolution, taken these
                                                    > experiences and incorporated in him,
                                                    > through proper action and behavior,
                                                    > the qualities of the Creator so that
                                                    > the sage became Self.
                                                    >
                                                    > This seems like A LOT OF HARD
                                                    > WORK! But in reality, it is just a
                                                    > giving up of all those qualities of
                                                    > personality that are not of the divine
                                                    > nature. It seems an agony at the
                                                    > time, but is nothing looking back,
                                                    > and why was that I clung to so
                                                    > important anyway, but it was.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > 55. Sri Bhagavan (Krishna) said:
                                                    > All desires of the mind (of ones very
                                                    > heart) are cast off, Oh Partha, by
                                                    > becoming the Self by working with
                                                    > the Self in steady wisdom.
                                                    >
                                                    > Contact with the Self in meditation
                                                    > brings a steady wisdom, Oh what to
                                                    > do about my present situation and
                                                    > how am I going to work this out,
                                                    > God's will be done, and so it goes
                                                    > with an answer coming to me so that
                                                    > I become more the Self by practicing
                                                    > proper behavior and letting the Self
                                                    > emerge in place of the misguided
                                                    > personality that I have begun with.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > 56. The mind is unshaken in
                                                    > adversity, and in pleasure, there is no
                                                    > latching onto and wanting to retain.
                                                    > Free from attachment, fear and anger
                                                    > is the sage poised in wisdom.
                                                    >
                                                    > The wisdom found in meditation
                                                    > allows the sage these characteristics.
                                                    > This is just something that happens,
                                                    > a symptom, not something that the
                                                    > sage tries to grasp and become, it just
                                                    > happens because one meditates.
                                                    >
                                                  • westwindwood2003
                                                    I do not know Sanskrit and so I know that I am not going to always get a translation correct. If I do make a mistake, I do not feel that I am causing any harm
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Jun 14, 2008
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                                                      I do not know Sanskrit and so I know
                                                      that I am not going to always get a
                                                      translation correct. If I do make a
                                                      mistake, I do not feel that I am
                                                      causing any harm because I just wind
                                                      up commenting on a different aspect
                                                      of meditation than what the Gita is
                                                      referring to at that point. However,
                                                      if I do get it wrong on a particular
                                                      passage, I would like to hear about it
                                                      if someone knows I am wrong
                                                      because I might miss some facet of
                                                      meditation that I might not touch on
                                                      later that is important.

                                                      57. Life's many experiences evoke
                                                      thoughts and feelings. However,
                                                      rejoicing in the good and hatred of
                                                      the bad is not in the personality of
                                                      the person who dwells, resides, in
                                                      Wisdom.

                                                      Being with that Wisdom, the one on
                                                      the path feels the situation is not
                                                      defined as good or bad, but God's
                                                      will, and so petitions for the
                                                      Knowledge of right behavior to deal
                                                      wisely in the circumstance.

                                                      58. A tortoise withdraws head and
                                                      limbs when disturbed, and a Yogi,
                                                      when confronted with an attractive
                                                      sight or painful scene reflexively
                                                      pulls in to contemplate the situation
                                                      knowing a moment's reflection
                                                      brings Wisdom.

                                                      59. Seeing an object of desire, a
                                                      person remains abstinent upon
                                                      leaving the longing behind. Even a
                                                      hint of the desirable reaction drops
                                                      away from the person who perceives
                                                      the Supreme.
                                                    • westwindwood2003
                                                      60. The wise person strives for perfection; turbulent situations though, the chaos of the day, violently carries away the mind. OK, so don t hesitate to
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Jun 18, 2008
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                                                        60. The wise person strives for
                                                        perfection; turbulent situations
                                                        though, the chaos of the day,
                                                        violently carries away the mind.

                                                        OK, so don't hesitate to meditate!

                                                        61. The yogi controls the chaos of
                                                        the day, these thoughts restrained
                                                        and joined together. Focus on God
                                                        and the yogi's thoughts are settled.

                                                        The turbulent thoughts of the yogi
                                                        are allowed to surface in meditation,
                                                        and the calming effect of the
                                                        meditation experience affects a
                                                        change in the mind (this just happens
                                                        without any attempt at control). With
                                                        the calming, the focus can them be
                                                        brought to God, who then brings
                                                        wisdom allowing the thoughts to be
                                                        settled.

                                                        62. Objects of the senses, (what
                                                        causes the turbulent thoughts of a
                                                        person) cause strong attachment
                                                        because a person has the propensity
                                                        for that particular object of the
                                                        senses. From this attachment comes
                                                        desire and from desire a kind of
                                                        anger, of that is mine,
                                                        possessiveness.

                                                        Attachment caused by their own
                                                        personality, or perhaps we could say
                                                        from their previous karma gives
                                                        material to work on in meditation.

                                                        63. From anger comes delusion and
                                                        from this delusion comes a forgetting
                                                        of facts (memory of what really
                                                        happened or how things are), and
                                                        this loss of reason with impetuous
                                                        behavior, results in death.

                                                        Why am I thinking of a motorcycle
                                                        going 110 mph on a windy country
                                                        road? Actually, this could be most
                                                        anything and usually results in a visit
                                                        from a police officer, or at best
                                                        recognition of out of control feelings
                                                        that need to be worked on in
                                                        meditation.
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