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The Bhagavad Gita 2

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  • westwindwood2003
    In the Gita the confusion of Arjuna is confronted with the admonition that he must not be a coward and get on with the battle of fighting evil. Because of my
    Message 1 of 28 , Mar 8, 2008
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      In the Gita the confusion of Arjuna is confronted with the admonition
      that he must not be a coward and get on with the battle of fighting
      evil. Because of my own experience, I can understand his confusion.
      I was confused myself on my first enlightenment. Before this I had
      some concept of right and wrong; and I felt like I could deal with
      life. After that experience, it really was like being placed between
      the old ways of life with its insolvable hassles and the battle of
      trying my hardest to follow this new way of life of following what is
      found in the enlightenment experience. Previously I had some
      intellectual concept that the two armies existed; however, for the
      first time I understood that me, myself, and I had to actually make a
      choice. Before, I did not realize there was a choice. Was I a
      coward myself? Yes! A comparison is made between my old life and the
      possibility of this new endeavor; kind of like Arjuna's looking at
      the good parts the army, which is based on the resources of the
      physical experience, and looking at the army where Arjuna would
      always do the right thing absolutely. With first enlightenment there
      is now a clearly defined choice what was not previously perceived.

      You may ask, why is this such a big deal, shouldn't a person be able
      to do this easily? Now consider, you will have to give up the idea
      that you can deal with pursuing life's pleasures successfully.
      Forget that completely. You will have these successive enlightenment
      experiences while meditating always telling you to change who you are
      by doing some particular task differently from how you would have
      done so in the past as prompted by your intellect and subconscious
      feelings. And by the way, subconscious feelings always rule the
      intellect, the intellect only confirms what the subconscious feelings
      wanted all along, you just did not realize this until you got into
      meditation and started to understand how you mind works. I honestly
      do not know why, but I decided to join the army of righteously doing
      life. I just knew that I should do it. Maybe Krishna or one of his
      manifestations was there for me also as a guide as He was for Arjuna.
      I would also like to point out that this is nothing like a
      fundamentalist Christian preacher on the bully pulpit stating in a
      loud voice that you should have FAITH. It is abased on the actual
      experience of profoundly understanding the differing natures of the
      two armies, not at an intellectual level, but rather at the deepest
      feeling level because of the profound experience of enlightenment for
      the first time.
    • Balasubramanian Radhakrishnan Kumar
      Do not be confused like Arjuna. Live in the NOW . You will experience wonders in this life. Lead the life and do not react to Life Situations ! ...
      Message 2 of 28 , Mar 8, 2008
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        Do not be confused like Arjuna. Live in the "NOW". You will experience wonders in this life. Lead the life and do not react to Life Situations !
        ________________________________
        > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
        > From: westwindwood2003@...
        > Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 19:22:02 +0000
        > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] The Bhagavad Gita 2
        >
        >
        > In the Gita the confusion of Arjuna is confronted with the admonition
        > that he must not be a coward and get on with the battle of fighting
        > evil. Because of my own experience, I can understand his confusion.
        > I was confused myself on my first enlightenment. Before this I had
        > some concept of right and wrong; and I felt like I could deal with
        > life. After that experience, it really was like being placed between
        > the old ways of life with its insolvable hassles and the battle of
        > trying my hardest to follow this new way of life of following what is
        > found in the enlightenment experience. Previously I had some
        > intellectual concept that the two armies existed; however, for the
        > first time I understood that me, myself, and I had to actually make a
        > choice. Before, I did not realize there was a choice. Was I a
        > coward myself? Yes! A comparison is made between my old life and the
        > possibility of this new endeavor; kind of like Arjuna's looking at
        > the good parts the army, which is based on the resources of the
        > physical experience, and looking at the army where Arjuna would
        > always do the right thing absolutely. With first enlightenment there
        > is now a clearly defined choice what was not previously perceived.
        >
        > You may ask, why is this such a big deal, shouldn't a person be able
        > to do this easily? Now consider, you will have to give up the idea
        > that you can deal with pursuing life's pleasures successfully.
        > Forget that completely. You will have these successive enlightenment
        > experiences while meditating always telling you to change who you are
        > by doing some particular task differently from how you would have
        > done so in the past as prompted by your intellect and subconscious
        > feelings. And by the way, subconscious feelings always rule the
        > intellect, the intellect only confirms what the subconscious feelings
        > wanted all along, you just did not realize this until you got into
        > meditation and started to understand how you mind works. I honestly
        > do not know why, but I decided to join the army of righteously doing
        > life. I just knew that I should do it. Maybe Krishna or one of his
        > manifestations was there for me also as a guide as He was for Arjuna.
        > I would also like to point out that this is nothing like a
        > fundamentalist Christian preacher on the bully pulpit stating in a
        > loud voice that you should have FAITH. It is abased on the actual
        > experience of profoundly understanding the differing natures of the
        > two armies, not at an intellectual level, but rather at the deepest
        > feeling level because of the profound experience of enlightenment for
        > the first time.
        >
        >
        >

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      • jogeshwarmahanta
        Geeta appears in Bhishma parva of Mahabhararat. Arjun Plunged into depression and Lord Krishna counselled him to recover. It is a great document on
        Message 3 of 28 , Mar 8, 2008
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          Geeta appears in Bhishma parva of Mahabhararat. Arjun Plunged into
          depression and Lord Krishna counselled him to recover. It is a great
          document on management.It is about higher mental processes and a
          dialogue between Arjun and Lord Krishna. Much before that Arjun had
          learnt ethics from Brihaspati, the guru of gods. So the Geeta is
          beyond the comprehension of common man. Here the objective was to
          recover a great warrior from depression.

          After Mahabharat war Yudhisthir plunged into much worse
          condition. Lord Krishna led him to Bhishma who was in Sarasajaya
          then.Shanti parva and Anushashan parva is a very long dialogue
          between Bhishma and Yudhisdhir. Other brothers were audience. Shanti
          parva is the largest parva in Mahabharat. The two parvas cover
          counselling on every aspect of life including administration.

          So please go through Shanti parva and Anushashana parva. I am sure
          you will enjoy and enrich youself beyond your expectation.
          regards


          --- In
          meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
          <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
          >
          > Chapter I
          > The Bhagavad Gita, which I shall call the Gita hereafter has been
          > called the Bible of India. The setting of the Gita is a
          battlefield
          > where Sri Krishna has promised to help both sides. There are two
          > choices; one side gets the wherewithal of earthly endeavors while
          > Krishna offers to place his unarmed self on the other side.
          Arjuna
          > is first and chooses Krishna, and Duryodhana is relieved because
          he
          > gets all the resources of the world. So, the armies gather on the
          > field where previous religious sacrifices have made the
          battlefield a
          > spiritual place. When Duryodhana sees the army Arjuna is part of,
          he
          > notes strong warriors, but states he also has the same on his side
          > and so states to his preceptor, a Brahman who has also taught
          archery
          > to some of those in the army associated with Arjuna. Duryodhana
          then
          > goes on to brag about how huge his army is and how meager the
          other,
          > but uses words that can also mean huge and disorganized, thrown
          > together willy-nilly, compared to compact and well disciplined.
          Lots
          > of horn blowing commences on both sides, then Arjuna asks Krishna
          to
          > place the war chariot between the armies so that he can have a
          look
          > at the enemy and then sees relatives on both sides. Arjuna falters
          in
          > his resolution to fight. The Gita is allegorical so Arjuna is
          really
          > faced with going for the spiritual approach to life and he has to
          > decide. The spiritual against the human condition with its
          enjoyment
          > and pleasures and all his relatives in the army of Duryodhana as
          part
          > of that human condition is the choice. Arjuna thinks it would be
          a
          > sin to slay these miscreants, but the next few verses go on to say
          > how nasty these folks really are and how impiety would corrupt
          family
          > life if they were allowed to win. Overwhelmed with sorrow for the
          > coming fight, Arjuna puts down his weapons.
          >
          > Chapter II
          > Arjuna is overcome with compassion, distress and tears; and needs
          > help. The Lord now speaks for the first time in the Gita and at
          this
          > point the real Gita proper is initiated with a statement of the
          > fundamental message: Arjuna, do not be without strength and yield
          to
          > weakness of the heart. Stand up oh scorcher of foes. So Arjuna
          says:
          > Lord who is slayer of foes, how can I attack the people in the
          > opposition who are worthy of worship, one who is verily the
          > embodiment of chastity and self denial, and the other a man of
          right
          > conduct who was my teacher? Wealth and desires of this world
          would
          > be tainted with blood. Which is best I do not know, they
          conquering
          > us or we them. After slaying them we should not care to live.
          With
          > nature overpowered by taint of pity, with mind in confusion about
          > duty, decisively say what I should do as I am your disciple and
          You
          > my refuge. This is significant because before this Arjuna was
          > concerned about pleasant things, learning, wealth, culture, wives,
          > progeny, kingdom. Now, he has reoriented to want what is good and
          > this is a prerequisite for enlightenment. Arjuna says: Nothing I
          see
          > would remove grief that dries up my senses, even if I have the
          most
          > prosperous kingdom and dominion over the celestials.
          >
          > Now a minister to the king whose army is fighting against the army
          > Arjuna is in has the temporary ability to tell all of the
          foregoing
          > to the king even though remote from the battlefield. The minister
          now
          > goes on to describe Arjuna as not wanting to fight; however,
          Arjuna
          > is one who can control the need for sleep, and this signifies he
          has
          > some level of attainment with matters of meditation, and therefore
          he
          > is bound to make the correct choice. Arjuna is unlikely to call
          off
          > the war although the king wishes he would do so.
          >
          > Hrishikesa (Krishna) smiles and now speaks the words to the
          > despondent one between the two armies.
          >
          > Those who should not be grieved for, you have grieved for,
          although
          > you have words of wisdom. For the dead, the living, the wise
          grieve
          > not. Here Arjuna does not possess the first characteristic of a
          > Yogi, the integration of thought, speech and action and he is
          warned
          > about loosing yoga. Bodies come and go, but the Atman exists both
          > past and future. The soul in this body experiences childhood,
          youth
          > and old age, then moves to another body. The enlightened know
          this
          > and death is OK.
          >
          > (Chapter II to be continued later)
          >
        • westwindwood2003
          Heat, cold, pleasure, pain, comes and goes, impermanent. Just bear patiently and the person is a star among people. Pleasure and pain does not matter and so
          Message 4 of 28 , Mar 11, 2008
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            Heat, cold, pleasure, pain, comes and goes, impermanent. Just bear
            patiently and the person is a star among people. Pleasure and pain
            does not matter and so the person is fit for immortality. The
            foregoing is not a matter of belief, but of experience. A person who
            is working with enlightenment to improve themselves just takes what
            is happening in their life as stimulation to bring material up to be
            worked on. In doing so they are working toward immortality, giving
            up their desires, letting them evaporate under the influence of the
            enlightenment experience. Now the next line from the Gita seems to
            go in a curious circle, but not really. When I first looked at this,
            I did so intellectually, but then I meditated about it in the
            enlightenment mode. Not of the unreal is being, and not non-being is
            of the real. The knower of truth sees indeed the absolute truth of
            these two. OK, these come out of the meditation experience. There
            is the discovery of the unreal bubbling forth from the desires of the
            subconscious and the being that gives the guidance to the unreal
            desires that cause evolution into the real. The knower of the truth
            understands these two things and the interconnectedness.

            Indestructible indeed that, known by thou whom perceives that all
            this is pervaded; destruction of this imperishable is not possible by
            anyone. Well, if you meditate and are undergoing the repeated
            enlightenment experience, you definitely know that the answers you
            get are imperishable and indestructible, very consistent and you had
            just better do it so that you can evolve towards that, probably
            taking lifetimes. The Gita goes on with this indestructible Atman
            theme for quite a few stanzas and that is what you are working on for
            enlightenment.

            The phenomenal is explained –Having a goal these everlasting bodies
            are manifested with the indestructible and the immeasurable;
            therefore fight O Bharata (Arjuna).

            He who thinks of the self believes in slaying and slain. Both are not
            reality as It slays not, nor is It slain.

            Not born like physical, it does not die or die at any time, this
            having been and will be, not instantly unborn. Eternal, changeless,
            this is ancient and not killed when the body is killed.

            Know indestructible, eternal, who this self unborn, inexhaustible.
            Arjuna, who causes slaying, or causes another to slay?

            Like discarded worn out clothes, other physical bodies are taken, so
            bodies are cast away and the one new entered into.
          • westwindwood2003
            The English translation I am using is The Bhagavad Gita with commentary by Swami Chidbhavananda in case anyone is curious. I believe it is used as a college
            Message 5 of 28 , Mar 17, 2008
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              The English translation I am using is The Bhagavad Gita with
              commentary by Swami Chidbhavananda in case anyone is curious. I
              believe it is used as a college textbook in India. Commencing with
              Chapter 2 Verse 23 and 24:

              Weapons do not cut, fire does not burn and, water not wet and wind
              not dry It (Atman, Self)

              It (Atman, universal) cannot be cut, burnt, wetted, dried; also It is
              eternal, all pervading, stable, immovable, and ancient.

              If a person has never taken up meditation, then these two verses are
              the foundation for their meditation commencement and then the ongoing
              evolution. First off, a person may not be aware that they have a
              soul (Atman), one with the attributes found in Verse 23 so the Gita
              so states that one does. Now Atman can also mean the universal soul,
              which is brought forth in Verse 24. As a person evolves through the
              enlightenment found in meditation, the individual Self of Verse 23
              takes on the characteristics of the universal Atman of Verse 24.

              Verse 25:
              This is said: un-manifested, unthinkable, unchangeable; having known
              this, grieve not.

              However, it is possible to experience the foregoing (Atman) through
              meditation, and therefore grieve not for there is all comfort found
              here. All is taken care of for you.
            • westwindwood2003
              The materialistic standpoint, nothing is permanent, nihilism, atheism, (unorthodox opinions) 26. Consider: And now this constantly aborning, or thinking
              Message 6 of 28 , Mar 19, 2008
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                The materialistic standpoint, nothing is permanent, nihilism,
                atheism, (unorthodox opinions)

                26. Consider: And now this constantly aborning, or thinking death,
                this is inevitable, even then Oh Mighty Armed, do not grieve. (All
                together now, one, two, three, in two part harmony)

                27. Of the born, for certain there is death, and a birth for that
                which is dead, and therefore the matter is inevitable. You aught not
                to grieve. (Life, death, life, death, life, death… one after the
                other as long as there is karma to work out and then nothing at the
                end, or maybe it's just an exchange of one physical entity for
                another over and over again. This is for the materialists, but what
                of enlightenment for thou?)

                28. Un-manifested in the beginning, beings manifested in their middle
                state O Bharatha, un-manifested again in the end, so again what grief
                is there? (Nature dictates there be manifestations, but there is no
                Self through it all)

                The above opinions, although not in agreement with accepted beliefs,
                are examined. Ultimately, no big deal because whatever you believe,
                when you get whacked up the side of the head with enlightenment, then
                you have to accept It and get off your duff, and give up despondency
                or whatever you were clinging to, or believing in, accept It and go
                forth.
              • sean tremblay
                Agreed, belief is just belief and what is,is regardless westwindwood2003 wrote: The materialistic standpoint, nothing is
                Message 7 of 28 , Mar 20, 2008
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                  Agreed,
                  belief is just belief and what is,is regardless

                  westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                  The materialistic standpoint, nothing is permanent, nihilism,
                  atheism, (unorthodox opinions)

                  26. Consider: And now this constantly aborning, or thinking death,
                  this is inevitable, even then Oh Mighty Armed, do not grieve. (All
                  together now, one, two, three, in two part harmony)

                  27. Of the born, for certain there is death, and a birth for that
                  which is dead, and therefore the matter is inevitable. You aught not
                  to grieve. (Life, death, life, death, life, death… one after the
                  other as long as there is karma to work out and then nothing at the
                  end, or maybe it's just an exchange of one physical entity for
                  another over and over again. This is for the materialists, but what
                  of enlightenment for thou?)

                  28. Un-manifested in the beginning, beings manifested in their middle
                  state O Bharatha, un-manifested again in the end, so again what grief
                  is there? (Nature dictates there be manifestations, but there is no
                  Self through it all)

                  The above opinions, although not in agreement with accepted beliefs,
                  are examined. Ultimately, no big deal because whatever you believe,
                  when you get whacked up the side of the head with enlightenment, then
                  you have to accept It and get off your duff, and give up despondency
                  or whatever you were clinging to, or believing in, accept It and go
                  forth.



                  Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                • westwindwood2003
                  Atman transcends mind, speech, and understanding 29: Enlightenment happens to someone: astonished, awed, in wonder, overwhelmed even; therefore, the speaking
                  Message 8 of 28 , Mar 20, 2008
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                    Atman transcends mind, speech, and understanding

                    29: Enlightenment happens to someone: astonished, awed, in wonder,
                    overwhelmed even; therefore, the speaking of this foregoing to another,
                    the superlative words are not nearly enough, and so this other knows
                    not of what is trying to be expressed, the words bring no
                    understanding. To the casual bystanders all this description means
                    nothing whatsoever.

                    30: In all bodies is the indestructible Indweller, O Bharta (Arjuna),
                    grieve not for them at all.

                    Well, since you have the Indweller, you work with yourself so that if
                    It is revealed, the superlative guidance and wisdom presented for the
                    Self to take up, to evolve towards the Indweller's nature will be
                    undertaken.
                  • westwindwood2003
                    Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37 31. One is born into the class of people that fight for righteousness, and nothing is higher that this duty, so look at not to
                    Message 9 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
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                      Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37


                      31. One is born into the class of people that fight for
                      righteousness, and nothing is higher that this duty, so look at not
                      to waver.

                      32. It has happened at this time that the gift of enlightenment is
                      apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go into this battle.

                      33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare that is you fame, your
                      duty, abandonment shall incur sin.

                      34. Your dishonor will be told about by the honored and this
                      everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death

                      35. Other warriors who have experienced enlightenment and currently
                      hold you in high esteem will decide you are a light weigh for
                      withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.

                      36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many will say your enemies
                      will criticize your petty power. What could be more painful than
                      this?

                      37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious you will enjoy the
                      earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to fight.
                    • sandeep chatterjee
                      Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                      Message 10 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
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                        Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.

                        westwindwood2003 wrote:
                        > Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                        > 31. One is born into the class of people that fight for
                        > righteousness, and nothing is higher that this duty, so look at not
                        > to waver.
                        > 32. It has happened at this time that the gift of enlightenment is
                        > apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go into this battle.
                        > 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare that is you fame, your
                        > duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                        > 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the honored and this
                        > everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                        > 35. Other warriors who have experienced enlightenment and currently
                        > hold you in high esteem will decide you are a light weigh for
                        > withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                        > 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many will say your enemies
                        > will criticize your petty power. What could be more painful than
                        > this?
                        > 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious you will enjoy the
                        > earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to fight.
                        >
                      • sean tremblay
                        And has been the rallying battle cry of all commanders to the troops of all nations who make war! In the context of Ajuna s reluctance in a military sense,
                        Message 11 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
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                          And has been the rallying battle cry of all commanders
                          to the troops of all nations who make war!
                          In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a military
                          sense, this is something I myself have struggled with.
                          I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma is to
                          explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
                          insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
                          soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
                          anarchist at heart with a didain for authority and a
                          dislike of possesing authority over others yet.... I
                          find the military in some form or other keeps creeping
                          it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I must
                          break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
                          --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:

                          > Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                          >
                          > westwindwood2003 wrote:
                          > > Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                          > > 31. One is born into the class of people that
                          > fight for
                          > > righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
                          > duty, so look at not
                          > > to waver.
                          > > 32. It has happened at this time that the gift of
                          > enlightenment is
                          > > apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go into
                          > this battle.
                          > > 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare that
                          > is you fame, your
                          > > duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                          > > 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
                          > honored and this
                          > > everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                          > > 35. Other warriors who have experienced
                          > enlightenment and currently
                          > > hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
                          > light weigh for
                          > > withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                          > > 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
                          > will say your enemies
                          > > will criticize your petty power. What could be
                          > more painful than
                          > > this?
                          > > 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious you
                          > will enjoy the
                          > > earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to fight.
                          > >
                          >
                          >



                          ____________________________________________________________________________________
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                        • Jeff Belyea
                          Sean - Krisna s advice to Arjuna is in the context of consciousness. The battleground is the mind and the concepts that the illusory and secondary identity
                          Message 12 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
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                            Sean -

                            Krisna's advice to Arjuna is
                            in the context of consciousness.
                            The battleground is the mind
                            and the concepts that the illusory
                            and secondary identity (ego)
                            finds so precious.

                            Enlightenment - in one aspect, the
                            victory over ego attachments - reveals
                            a primary identity that has absolute
                            clarity and no unanswered questions
                            ...nothing to resolve...perfect peace
                            of mind and utter tranquility.

                            Jeff


                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
                            <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > And has been the rallying battle cry of all commanders
                            > to the troops of all nations who make war!
                            > In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a military
                            > sense, this is something I myself have struggled with.
                            > I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma is to
                            > explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
                            > insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
                            > soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
                            > anarchist at heart with a didain for authority and a
                            > dislike of possesing authority over others yet.... I
                            > find the military in some form or other keeps creeping
                            > it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I must
                            > break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
                            > --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                            > >
                            > > westwindwood2003 wrote:
                            > > > Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                            > > > 31. One is born into the class of people that
                            > > fight for
                            > > > righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
                            > > duty, so look at not
                            > > > to waver.
                            > > > 32. It has happened at this time that the gift of
                            > > enlightenment is
                            > > > apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go into
                            > > this battle.
                            > > > 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare that
                            > > is you fame, your
                            > > > duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                            > > > 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
                            > > honored and this
                            > > > everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                            > > > 35. Other warriors who have experienced
                            > > enlightenment and currently
                            > > > hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
                            > > light weigh for
                            > > > withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                            > > > 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
                            > > will say your enemies
                            > > > will criticize your petty power. What could be
                            > > more painful than
                            > > > this?
                            > > > 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious you
                            > > will enjoy the
                            > > > earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to fight.
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            ______________________________________________________________________
                            ______________
                            > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                            > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                            >
                          • sean tremblay
                            yep, I understand it both ways ... ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your
                            Message 13 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
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                              yep, I understand it both ways
                              --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:

                              > Sean -
                              >
                              > Krisna's advice to Arjuna is
                              > in the context of consciousness.
                              > The battleground is the mind
                              > and the concepts that the illusory
                              > and secondary identity (ego)
                              > finds so precious.
                              >
                              > Enlightenment - in one aspect, the
                              > victory over ego attachments - reveals
                              > a primary identity that has absolute
                              > clarity and no unanswered questions
                              > ...nothing to resolve...perfect peace
                              > of mind and utter tranquility.
                              >
                              > Jeff
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                              > sean tremblay
                              > <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > And has been the rallying battle cry of all
                              > commanders
                              > > to the troops of all nations who make war!
                              > > In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a military
                              > > sense, this is something I myself have struggled
                              > with.
                              > > I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma is
                              > to
                              > > explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
                              > > insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
                              > > soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
                              > > anarchist at heart with a didain for authority and
                              > a
                              > > dislike of possesing authority over others yet....
                              > I
                              > > find the military in some form or other keeps
                              > creeping
                              > > it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I must
                              > > break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
                              > > --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                              > > >
                              > > > westwindwood2003 wrote:
                              > > > > Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                              > > > > 31. One is born into the class of people that
                              > > > fight for
                              > > > > righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
                              > > > duty, so look at not
                              > > > > to waver.
                              > > > > 32. It has happened at this time that the gift
                              > of
                              > > > enlightenment is
                              > > > > apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go
                              > into
                              > > > this battle.
                              > > > > 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare
                              > that
                              > > > is you fame, your
                              > > > > duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                              > > > > 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
                              > > > honored and this
                              > > > > everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                              >
                              > > > > 35. Other warriors who have experienced
                              > > > enlightenment and currently
                              > > > > hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
                              > > > light weigh for
                              > > > > withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                              >
                              > > > > 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
                              > > > will say your enemies
                              > > > > will criticize your petty power. What could
                              > be
                              > > > more painful than
                              > > > > this?
                              > > > > 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious
                              > you
                              > > > will enjoy the
                              > > > > earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to
                              > fight.
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              ______________________________________________________________________
                              > ______________
                              > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                              > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >



                              ____________________________________________________________________________________
                              Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                              http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                            • sean tremblay
                              to bad that idea didn t make to the guys with the ammonium nitrate. I do realize that the most violent segments of any religion realy are a minority. Was it
                              Message 14 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
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                                to bad that idea didn't make to the guys with the
                                ammonium nitrate.
                                I do realize that the most violent segments of any
                                religion realy are a minority. Was it Socrates who
                                said there have always coexisted two religions one for
                                the masses and one for the initiate? any way it was
                                one of the great greeks
                                --- Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:

                                > The Islamic concept of jihad
                                > is understood in a similarly
                                > bifurcated way -- Muslim
                                > moderates tend to see it as
                                > referring to an inner
                                > struggle toward understanding
                                > and righteousness, while
                                > various fundy factions
                                > interpret it literally as war
                                > against "infidels" on behalf
                                > of Islam itself.
                                >
                                >
                                > sean tremblay wrote:
                                > > yep, I understand it both ways
                                > > --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >> Sean -
                                > >>
                                > >> Krisna's advice to Arjuna is
                                > >> in the context of consciousness.
                                > >> The battleground is the mind
                                > >> and the concepts that the illusory
                                > >> and secondary identity (ego)
                                > >> finds so precious.
                                > >>
                                > >> Enlightenment - in one aspect, the
                                > >> victory over ego attachments - reveals
                                > >> a primary identity that has absolute
                                > >> clarity and no unanswered questions
                                > >> ...nothing to resolve...perfect peace
                                > >> of mind and utter tranquility.
                                > >>
                                > >> Jeff
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> --- In
                                > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                > >> sean tremblay
                                > >> <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                                > >>
                                > >>> And has been the rallying battle cry of all
                                > >>>
                                > >> commanders
                                > >>
                                > >>> to the troops of all nations who make war!
                                > >>> In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a
                                > military
                                > >>> sense, this is something I myself have struggled
                                > >>>
                                > >> with.
                                > >>
                                > >>> I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma
                                > is
                                > >>>
                                > >> to
                                > >>
                                > >>> explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
                                > >>> insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
                                > >>> soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
                                > >>> anarchist at heart with a didain for authority
                                > and
                                > >>>
                                > >> a
                                > >>
                                > >>> dislike of possesing authority over others
                                > yet....
                                > >>>
                                > >> I
                                > >>
                                > >>> find the military in some form or other keeps
                                > >>>
                                > >> creeping
                                > >>
                                > >>> it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I
                                > must
                                > >>> break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
                                > >>> --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
                                > >>>
                                > >>>
                                > >>>> Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>> westwindwood2003 wrote:
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>>> Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                                > >>>>> 31. One is born into the class of people that
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>> fight for
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>>> righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>> duty, so look at not
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>>> to waver.
                                > >>>>> 32. It has happened at this time that the gift
                                > >>>>>
                                > >> of
                                > >>
                                > >>>> enlightenment is
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>>> apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go
                                > >>>>>
                                > >> into
                                > >>
                                > >>>> this battle.
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>>> 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare
                                > >>>>>
                                > >> that
                                > >>
                                > >>>> is you fame, your
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>>> duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                                > >>>>> 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>> honored and this
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>>> everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>> 35. Other warriors who have experienced
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>> enlightenment and currently
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>>> hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>> light weigh for
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>>> withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>> 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>> will say your enemies
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>>> will criticize your petty power. What could
                                > >>>>>
                                > >> be
                                > >>
                                > >>>> more painful than
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>>> this?
                                > >>>>> 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious
                                > >>>>>
                                > >> you
                                > >>
                                > >>>> will enjoy the
                                > >>>>
                                > >>>>> earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to
                                > >>>>>
                                > >> fight.
                                > >>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>>
                                > >>>>
                                >
                                >


                                ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                                http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                              • Bruce Morgen
                                The Islamic concept of jihad is understood in a similarly bifurcated way -- Muslim moderates tend to see it as referring to an inner struggle toward
                                Message 15 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
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                                  The Islamic concept of jihad
                                  is understood in a similarly
                                  bifurcated way -- Muslim
                                  moderates tend to see it as
                                  referring to an inner
                                  struggle toward understanding
                                  and righteousness, while
                                  various fundy factions
                                  interpret it literally as war
                                  against "infidels" on behalf
                                  of Islam itself.


                                  sean tremblay wrote:
                                  > yep, I understand it both ways
                                  > --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >> Sean -
                                  >>
                                  >> Krisna's advice to Arjuna is
                                  >> in the context of consciousness.
                                  >> The battleground is the mind
                                  >> and the concepts that the illusory
                                  >> and secondary identity (ego)
                                  >> finds so precious.
                                  >>
                                  >> Enlightenment - in one aspect, the
                                  >> victory over ego attachments - reveals
                                  >> a primary identity that has absolute
                                  >> clarity and no unanswered questions
                                  >> ...nothing to resolve...perfect peace
                                  >> of mind and utter tranquility.
                                  >>
                                  >> Jeff
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                  >> sean tremblay
                                  >> <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >>> And has been the rallying battle cry of all
                                  >>>
                                  >> commanders
                                  >>
                                  >>> to the troops of all nations who make war!
                                  >>> In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a military
                                  >>> sense, this is something I myself have struggled
                                  >>>
                                  >> with.
                                  >>
                                  >>> I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma is
                                  >>>
                                  >> to
                                  >>
                                  >>> explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
                                  >>> insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
                                  >>> soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
                                  >>> anarchist at heart with a didain for authority and
                                  >>>
                                  >> a
                                  >>
                                  >>> dislike of possesing authority over others yet....
                                  >>>
                                  >> I
                                  >>
                                  >>> find the military in some form or other keeps
                                  >>>
                                  >> creeping
                                  >>
                                  >>> it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I must
                                  >>> break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
                                  >>> --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>> Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> westwindwood2003 wrote:
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>> Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                                  >>>>> 31. One is born into the class of people that
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>> fight for
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>> righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>> duty, so look at not
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>> to waver.
                                  >>>>> 32. It has happened at this time that the gift
                                  >>>>>
                                  >> of
                                  >>
                                  >>>> enlightenment is
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>> apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go
                                  >>>>>
                                  >> into
                                  >>
                                  >>>> this battle.
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>> 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare
                                  >>>>>
                                  >> that
                                  >>
                                  >>>> is you fame, your
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>> duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                                  >>>>> 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>> honored and this
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>> everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>> 35. Other warriors who have experienced
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>> enlightenment and currently
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>> hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>> light weigh for
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>> withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>> 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>> will say your enemies
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>> will criticize your petty power. What could
                                  >>>>>
                                  >> be
                                  >>
                                  >>>> more painful than
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>> this?
                                  >>>>> 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious
                                  >>>>>
                                  >> you
                                  >>
                                  >>>> will enjoy the
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>>> earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to
                                  >>>>>
                                  >> fight.
                                  >>
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>>
                                  >>>>
                                • westwindwood2003
                                  38. Engage yourself in this battle where pain and pleasure, gain and loss, victory and defeat matter not. You incur no sin because all these pairs are
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Mar 30, 2008
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                                    38. Engage yourself in this battle where pain and pleasure, gain and
                                    loss, victory and defeat matter not. You incur no sin because all
                                    these pairs are released (let go of) in this battle for wisdom (right
                                    behavior).

                                    When you experience enlightenment, knowledge of how you should
                                    conduct your affairs is presented to you in meditation; you offer up
                                    the positive and negative feelings that have surfaced in meditation
                                    and ask for guidance. Your desire for a particular outcome is
                                    totally let go of and the insight of how you should proceed is given
                                    to you.

                                    39. Listen up Arjuna; taking up the yoke of Yoga means absolutely
                                    adhering to the Wisdom the yoga presents to you, and in doing so, the
                                    bondage of karma shall be removed.

                                    You will follow a wisdom not found in your own personality, something
                                    much better than your nature, and you will be changed for the better.

                                    40. In this most feeble of efforts there is no production of
                                    unfortunate results, even with uneven application, this duty protects
                                    against great fear.

                                    It has been a while since I started meditation, but I remember.
                                    Meditation was such a feeble tentative effort because of my karma, my
                                    condition. However, I was urged to continue by a wise person, and a
                                    tiny start was all it took; it was a beginning with good results. I
                                    did have great fear because I was so out of my comfort zone; having
                                    what I thought was control of my destiny (hah, what an illusion that
                                    is with all the self induced pain). So I worked on cultivating the
                                    relationship (I was uneven in the application because I LIKED the
                                    familiarity of my nature) with that Wisdom I had found, and with the
                                    procedure of doing meditation came calmness, the determination to do
                                    the right thing in giving up my karmic tendencies because life was
                                    better that way. The fear left soon on, but the propensities still
                                    persisted for many years and required much work.

                                    41. One pointed determination is the destiny of Arjuna (Oh the joy of
                                    the Kurus is he) because there is always a single answer for any
                                    specific problem. There is but one decision for a problem since he
                                    has taken to the spiritual battlefield. The mind not centered on the
                                    spiritual has much recourse, and multiple choices to resolve, but
                                    nothing becomes fixed as a solution.

                                    The wisdom in meditation is always consistent (you present the same
                                    problem again, and you get the same answer again), the answer hurts
                                    no one, and is really hard to do the new behavior to change the
                                    personality (and work out karma). The intellectual mind thinks of
                                    many solutions to a problem, which to choose? The emotional mind can
                                    be in chaos with all the feelings that surface, but the feelings come
                                    to one point with enough meditation, and then come the offering up of
                                    the issue to receive the wisdom on how to proceed.
                                  • westwindwood2003
                                    ... battlefield ... a ... he ... archery ... then ... other, ... Lots ... to ... in ... really ... enjoyment ... part ... family ... this ... to ... right ...
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Apr 6, 2008
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                                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
                                      <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Chapter I
                                      > The Bhagavad Gita, which I shall call the Gita hereafter has been
                                      > called the Bible of India. The setting of the Gita is a
                                      battlefield
                                      > where Sri Krishna has promised to help both sides. There are two
                                      > choices; one side gets the wherewithal of earthly endeavors while
                                      > Krishna offers to place his unarmed self on the other side. Arjuna
                                      > is first and chooses Krishna, and Duryodhana is relieved because he
                                      > gets all the resources of the world. So, the armies gather on the
                                      > field where previous religious sacrifices have made the battlefield
                                      a
                                      > spiritual place. When Duryodhana sees the army Arjuna is part of,
                                      he
                                      > notes strong warriors, but states he also has the same on his side
                                      > and so states to his preceptor, a Brahman who has also taught
                                      archery
                                      > to some of those in the army associated with Arjuna. Duryodhana
                                      then
                                      > goes on to brag about how huge his army is and how meager the
                                      other,
                                      > but uses words that can also mean huge and disorganized, thrown
                                      > together willy-nilly, compared to compact and well disciplined.
                                      Lots
                                      > of horn blowing commences on both sides, then Arjuna asks Krishna
                                      to
                                      > place the war chariot between the armies so that he can have a look
                                      > at the enemy and then sees relatives on both sides. Arjuna falters
                                      in
                                      > his resolution to fight. The Gita is allegorical so Arjuna is
                                      really
                                      > faced with going for the spiritual approach to life and he has to
                                      > decide. The spiritual against the human condition with its
                                      enjoyment
                                      > and pleasures and all his relatives in the army of Duryodhana as
                                      part
                                      > of that human condition is the choice. Arjuna thinks it would be a
                                      > sin to slay these miscreants, but the next few verses go on to say
                                      > how nasty these folks really are and how impiety would corrupt
                                      family
                                      > life if they were allowed to win. Overwhelmed with sorrow for the
                                      > coming fight, Arjuna puts down his weapons.
                                      >
                                      > Chapter II
                                      > Arjuna is overcome with compassion, distress and tears; and needs
                                      > help. The Lord now speaks for the first time in the Gita and at
                                      this
                                      > point the real Gita proper is initiated with a statement of the
                                      > fundamental message: Arjuna, do not be without strength and yield
                                      to
                                      > weakness of the heart. Stand up oh scorcher of foes. So Arjuna
                                      says:
                                      > Lord who is slayer of foes, how can I attack the people in the
                                      > opposition who are worthy of worship, one who is verily the
                                      > embodiment of chastity and self denial, and the other a man of
                                      right
                                      > conduct who was my teacher? Wealth and desires of this world would
                                      > be tainted with blood. Which is best I do not know, they
                                      conquering
                                      > us or we them. After slaying them we should not care to live.
                                      With
                                      > nature overpowered by taint of pity, with mind in confusion about
                                      > duty, decisively say what I should do as I am your disciple and You
                                      > my refuge. This is significant because before this Arjuna was
                                      > concerned about pleasant things, learning, wealth, culture, wives,
                                      > progeny, kingdom. Now, he has reoriented to want what is good and
                                      > this is a prerequisite for enlightenment. Arjuna says: Nothing I
                                      see
                                      > would remove grief that dries up my senses, even if I have the most
                                      > prosperous kingdom and dominion over the celestials.
                                      >
                                      > Now a minister to the king whose army is fighting against the army
                                      > Arjuna is in has the temporary ability to tell all of the foregoing
                                      > to the king even though remote from the battlefield. The minister
                                      now
                                      > goes on to describe Arjuna as not wanting to fight; however, Arjuna
                                      > is one who can control the need for sleep, and this signifies he
                                      has
                                      > some level of attainment with matters of meditation, and therefore
                                      he
                                      > is bound to make the correct choice. Arjuna is unlikely to call
                                      off
                                      > the war although the king wishes he would do so.
                                      >
                                      > Hrishikesa (Krishna) smiles and now speaks the words to the
                                      > despondent one between the two armies.
                                      >
                                      > Those who should not be grieved for, you have grieved for, although
                                      > you have words of wisdom. For the dead, the living, the wise
                                      grieve
                                      > not. Here Arjuna does not possess the first characteristic of a
                                      > Yogi, the integration of thought, speech and action and he is
                                      warned
                                      > about loosing yoga. Bodies come and go, but the Atman exists both
                                      > past and future. The soul in this body experiences childhood, youth
                                      > and old age, then moves to another body. The enlightened know this
                                      > and death is OK.
                                      >
                                      > (Chapter II to be continued later)
                                      >
                                    • westwindwood2003
                                      A little background first. Prakriti or the phenomenal universe is delineated in the Vedic teaching. The Vedas identify the phenomenal universe so completely
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Jun 3, 2008
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                                        A little background first. Prakriti or the phenomenal universe is
                                        delineated in the Vedic teaching. The Vedas identify the phenomenal
                                        universe so completely that the phenomenal and Vedas are considered
                                        the same essence. The three Gunas are Sattva, Rajas and Tamas and
                                        constitute the Vedas. Sattva is an illumination shining forth from
                                        the individual through knowledge, Rajas characteristics are greed and
                                        selfish activities and Tamas inactivity, delusion, recklessness and
                                        darkness. The three Gunas compete with each other, create unbalance,
                                        and cause the propagation of the phenomenal universe.

                                        What does one then do? The Key is Yoga. In other words, do your
                                        meditation, offer up the work that is yours, perform the prescribed
                                        duty revealed to you and do not desire results one way or the other,
                                        just do the requested action found in meditation. In this way you
                                        will not be a producer of karma. The Gita states:

                                        45. Deal with the three attributes, the Vedas. Be without these three
                                        attributes Oh Arjuna, free from the pairs of opposites, ever remaining
                                        in the Sattva (goodness) free from (the thought of) material
                                        acquisition and preservation, established in the self.


                                        46. In this work, the only right thing for you is not desire the
                                        fruits of your effort. Also at any time, do not let this not wanting
                                        fruits of action be the motive because in not having your attachment
                                        you would let there be an inaction.

                                        Yoga eventually takes a person beyond the three Gunas so that even
                                        Sattva eventually fades as all is worked out.

                                        48. Steadfast in yoga, perform attachment abandonment, Oh Dhananjaya,
                                        in success and failure be the same as yoga is called having an
                                        evenness of mind.

                                        However, this can only be attained by meditation. It is not attained
                                        by act of willpower as the goings on are the doings of the Lord
                                        speaking within and the one who meditates is in the position of a
                                        willing servant. Just do it.
                                      • westwindwood2003
                                        49. Action not directed by yoga is by far most inferior. Oh Dhananjaya, the self-seekers, those taking advantage of opportunities without regard for the
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Jun 5, 2008
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                                          49. Action not directed by yoga is by far most
                                          inferior. Oh Dhananjaya, the self-seekers,
                                          those taking advantage of opportunities without
                                          regard for the consequences, have a wretched
                                          existence.

                                          The unaware person lives their life seeking
                                          pleasure, trying to get head. Perhaps something
                                          happens, some calamity or maybe it is just a
                                          realization that life is not right. There is
                                          religion to turn to, religious works and teachers.
                                          Ultimately though, there is the complete giving
                                          over to God, a total offering up of what one is
                                          striving for spiritually and seeking guidance in
                                          deep meditation, a discovery through yoga of
                                          the path to resolution of it all.

                                          50. With meditation comes a calmness of mind,
                                          tranquility. Also, there is wisdom that comes
                                          showing the actions, the feelings even, that
                                          needs to be acted upon to grow. There is
                                          perfection in this life following this path.
                                          Devote yourself to yoga. Good and evil deeds,
                                          how do I know which is which? Pursuing
                                          either should eventually cease. But, it will take
                                          decades to evolve through it all because it is
                                          hard to change ones personality.

                                          Intellectually we have a feeling for what is
                                          right and wrong, but this is action not directed
                                          by yoga and is inferior. For instance, I may
                                          help someone and that seems right to me;
                                          however, I might be keeping that person from
                                          discovering the path because they may not
                                          realize life needs working on. If I do not help
                                          them when I easily can do so, that might seem
                                          wrong. The answer to the proper action is
                                          revealed in meditation.

                                          51. The wise, those who meditate, let go of the
                                          desire, lets answers come when no ego
                                          intervenes, discerns proper action and go
                                          beyond evil, eventually evolving into the nature
                                          that frees them from being bound to birthing
                                          again.
                                        • westwindwood2003
                                          What happens to a yogi? These are active and passive. The following is passive because it just happens without effort. 51. When understanding from your
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Jun 6, 2008
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                                            What happens to a yogi? These are active
                                            and passive. The following is passive
                                            because it just happens without effort.

                                            51. When understanding from your practice
                                            comes, intellectual delusion is bypassed.
                                            You are indifferent to what others said in the
                                            past and what you shall hear in the future.

                                            This just happens automatically because of
                                            the immediate (in this very instant)
                                            Guidance. That Guidance is all there is; the
                                            intellect is inactive.

                                            52. Your intellect analyzes what others say
                                            and you can be confused by the many
                                            options. The yogi; however, can stand
                                            immovable in the Self with steady
                                            understanding of the course of action
                                            needed.
                                          • medit8ionsociety
                                            ... Yo Westwindwood, This and the previous Gita posting are, as usual, very great pointings. I like the term Guidance (with the capital G) as we often see
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Jun 7, 2008
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                                              "westwindwood2003" <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > What happens to a yogi? These are active
                                              > and passive. The following is passive
                                              > because it just happens without effort.
                                              >
                                              > 51. When understanding from your practice
                                              > comes, intellectual delusion is bypassed.
                                              > You are indifferent to what others said in the
                                              > past and what you shall hear in the future.
                                              >
                                              > This just happens automatically because of
                                              > the immediate (in this very instant)
                                              > Guidance. That Guidance is all there is; the
                                              > intellect is inactive.
                                              >
                                              > 52. Your intellect analyzes what others say
                                              > and you can be confused by the many
                                              > options. The yogi; however, can stand
                                              > immovable in the Self with steady
                                              > understanding of the course of action
                                              > needed.
                                              >
                                              Yo Westwindwood,
                                              This and the previous Gita posting are,
                                              as usual, very great pointings. I like
                                              the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
                                              we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
                                              with the term Guidance we also get the
                                              concept that a definitive understanding
                                              takes place that transcends the mind's usual
                                              "it could be like this, or it could be
                                              like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
                                              will be done" reality to take us over (and
                                              inner) and we then automatically let events
                                              of our life proceed as they may without
                                              any inner chattering that commonly brings
                                              us negativity (takes our peace away). And
                                              of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
                                              whatever masks cover this true identity.
                                              So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
                                              Thanks again for sharing.
                                              Peace and blessings,
                                              Bob
                                            • westwindwood2003
                                              I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little getting used to and
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Jun 7, 2008
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                                                I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for
                                                word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little
                                                getting used to and sometimes the English words that are chosen by the
                                                author have several definitions and the author sometime uses the more
                                                obscure definition, so I find I have to use a dictionary some to get
                                                the real meaning. What I then do is try and relate that word for word
                                                English translation to my own meditation experience so that I can
                                                express that translation in a way that is more understandable I hope.
                                                What I find wonderful about the Gita is here are these words that in
                                                a condensed kind of way outlines the spiritual experience, like
                                                lecture notes that a teacher can expand on. Since I meditate myself,
                                                I feel that I can do the subject some justice, but I sometimes wonder
                                                if there might be better words than the ones I use.
                                                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety .

                                                > Yo Westwindwood,
                                                > This and the previous Gita posting are,
                                                > as usual, very great pointings. I like
                                                > the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
                                                > we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
                                                > with the term Guidance we also get the
                                                > concept that a definitive understanding
                                                > takes place that transcends the mind's usual
                                                > "it could be like this, or it could be
                                                > like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
                                                > will be done" reality to take us over (and
                                                > inner) and we then automatically let events
                                                > of our life proceed as they may without
                                                > any inner chattering that commonly brings
                                                > us negativity (takes our peace away). And
                                                > of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
                                                > whatever masks cover this true identity.
                                                > So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
                                                > Thanks again for sharing.
                                                > Peace and blessings,
                                                > Bob
                                                >
                                              • suman sk
                                                Thanks for continued posting on the wisdom of Geeta. I read it everyday and find a wonderful insight into the true learning. It is a science in itself but only
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Jun 8, 2008
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                                                  Thanks for continued posting on the wisdom of Geeta.

                                                  I read it everyday and find a wonderful insight into the true learning.

                                                  It is a science in itself but only for the beleiver.

                                                  Om and God bless all of us

                                                   

                                                  Surendra K



                                                  --- On Sat, 6/7/08, westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:

                                                  From: westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@...>
                                                  Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Bhagavad Gita 12
                                                  To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Date: Saturday, June 7, 2008, 11:53 PM

                                                  I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for
                                                  word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little
                                                  getting used to and sometimes the English words that are chosen by the
                                                  author have several definitions and the author sometime uses the more
                                                  obscure definition, so I find I have to use a dictionary some to get
                                                  the real meaning. What I then do is try and relate that word for word
                                                  English translation to my own meditation experience so that I can
                                                  express that translation in a way that is more understandable I hope.
                                                  What I find wonderful about the Gita is here are these words that in
                                                  a condensed kind of way outlines the spiritual experience, like
                                                  lecture notes that a teacher can expand on. Since I meditate myself,
                                                  I feel that I can do the subject some justice, but I sometimes wonder
                                                  if there might be better words than the ones I use.
                                                  --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety .

                                                  > Yo Westwindwood,
                                                  > This and the previous Gita posting are,
                                                  > as usual, very great pointings. I like
                                                  > the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
                                                  > we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
                                                  > with the term Guidance we also get the
                                                  > concept that a definitive understanding
                                                  > takes place that transcends the mind's usual
                                                  > "it could be like this, or it could be
                                                  > like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
                                                  > will be done" reality to take us over (and
                                                  > inner) and we then automatically let events
                                                  > of our life proceed as they may without
                                                  > any inner chattering that commonly brings
                                                  > us negativity (takes our peace away). And
                                                  > of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
                                                  > whatever masks cover this true identity.
                                                  > So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
                                                  > Thanks again for sharing.
                                                  > Peace and blessings,
                                                  > Bob
                                                  >


                                                • WestWindWood
                                                  54. Arjuna asks a question about the qualities (steady of disposition, consistent in vision) of a sage, (who has merged with the Creator, the nature of that
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Jun 9, 2008
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                                                    54. Arjuna asks a question about the
                                                    qualities (steady of disposition,
                                                    consistent in vision) of a sage, (who
                                                    has merged with the Creator, the
                                                    nature of that which underlies all
                                                    existence). 

                                                    The sage, merged into the Creator
                                                    beyond the normal conscious state,
                                                    we could say in deep meditation,
                                                    experiences the qualities of the
                                                    Creator.  The sage has, over may
                                                    years of evolution, taken these
                                                    experiences and incorporated in him,
                                                    through proper action and behavior,
                                                    the qualities of the Creator so that
                                                    the sage became Self. 

                                                    This seems like A LOT OF HARD
                                                    WORK! But in reality, it is just a
                                                    giving up of all those qualities of
                                                    personality that are not of the divine
                                                    nature.  It seems an agony at the
                                                    time, but is nothing looking back,
                                                    and why was that I clung to so
                                                    important anyway, but it was.


                                                    55. Sri Bhagavan (Krishna) said:
                                                    All desires of the mind (of ones very
                                                    heart) are cast off, Oh Partha, by
                                                    becoming the Self by working with
                                                    the Self in steady wisdom.

                                                    Contact with the Self in meditation
                                                    brings a steady wisdom, Oh what to
                                                    do about my present situation and
                                                    how am I going to work this out,
                                                    God's will be done, and so it goes
                                                    with an answer coming to me so that
                                                    I become more the Self by practicing
                                                    proper behavior and letting the Self
                                                    emerge in place of the misguided
                                                    personality that I have begun with.



                                                    56. The mind is unshaken in
                                                    adversity, and in pleasure, there is no
                                                    latching onto and wanting to retain. 
                                                    Free from attachment, fear and anger
                                                    is the sage poised in wisdom.

                                                    The wisdom found in meditation
                                                    allows the sage these characteristics. 
                                                    This is just something that happens,
                                                    a symptom, not something that the
                                                    sage tries to grasp and become, it just
                                                    happens because one meditates.


                                                  • aideenmck
                                                    Belated thanks for these posts helping us to understand the Bhagavad Gita, about which I was almost totally ignorant. Recently, I ve been reading Ram Dass s
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Jun 11, 2008
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                                                      Belated thanks for these posts helping us to understand the Bhagavad
                                                      Gita, about which I was almost totally ignorant. Recently, I've been
                                                      reading Ram Dass's "Paths to God: Living the Bhagavad Gita" - it,
                                                      too, is a revelation. Also reading Rumi's poetry, the Coleman Barks
                                                      translation. And meeting Theravadin monks, listening to their dharma
                                                      talks. Sometimes I feel as if I'm perceiving everything for the
                                                      first time. (Where have I been?)
                                                      Aideen

                                                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, WestWindWood
                                                      <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > 54. Arjuna asks a question about the
                                                      > qualities (steady of disposition,
                                                      > consistent in vision) of a sage, (who
                                                      > has merged with the Creator, the
                                                      > nature of that which underlies all
                                                      > existence).
                                                      >
                                                      > The sage, merged into the Creator
                                                      > beyond the normal conscious state,
                                                      > we could say in deep meditation,
                                                      > experiences the qualities of the
                                                      > Creator. The sage has, over may
                                                      > years of evolution, taken these
                                                      > experiences and incorporated in him,
                                                      > through proper action and behavior,
                                                      > the qualities of the Creator so that
                                                      > the sage became Self.
                                                      >
                                                      > This seems like A LOT OF HARD
                                                      > WORK! But in reality, it is just a
                                                      > giving up of all those qualities of
                                                      > personality that are not of the divine
                                                      > nature. It seems an agony at the
                                                      > time, but is nothing looking back,
                                                      > and why was that I clung to so
                                                      > important anyway, but it was.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > 55. Sri Bhagavan (Krishna) said:
                                                      > All desires of the mind (of ones very
                                                      > heart) are cast off, Oh Partha, by
                                                      > becoming the Self by working with
                                                      > the Self in steady wisdom.
                                                      >
                                                      > Contact with the Self in meditation
                                                      > brings a steady wisdom, Oh what to
                                                      > do about my present situation and
                                                      > how am I going to work this out,
                                                      > God's will be done, and so it goes
                                                      > with an answer coming to me so that
                                                      > I become more the Self by practicing
                                                      > proper behavior and letting the Self
                                                      > emerge in place of the misguided
                                                      > personality that I have begun with.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > 56. The mind is unshaken in
                                                      > adversity, and in pleasure, there is no
                                                      > latching onto and wanting to retain.
                                                      > Free from attachment, fear and anger
                                                      > is the sage poised in wisdom.
                                                      >
                                                      > The wisdom found in meditation
                                                      > allows the sage these characteristics.
                                                      > This is just something that happens,
                                                      > a symptom, not something that the
                                                      > sage tries to grasp and become, it just
                                                      > happens because one meditates.
                                                      >
                                                    • westwindwood2003
                                                      I do not know Sanskrit and so I know that I am not going to always get a translation correct. If I do make a mistake, I do not feel that I am causing any harm
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Jun 14, 2008
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                                                        I do not know Sanskrit and so I know
                                                        that I am not going to always get a
                                                        translation correct. If I do make a
                                                        mistake, I do not feel that I am
                                                        causing any harm because I just wind
                                                        up commenting on a different aspect
                                                        of meditation than what the Gita is
                                                        referring to at that point. However,
                                                        if I do get it wrong on a particular
                                                        passage, I would like to hear about it
                                                        if someone knows I am wrong
                                                        because I might miss some facet of
                                                        meditation that I might not touch on
                                                        later that is important.

                                                        57. Life's many experiences evoke
                                                        thoughts and feelings. However,
                                                        rejoicing in the good and hatred of
                                                        the bad is not in the personality of
                                                        the person who dwells, resides, in
                                                        Wisdom.

                                                        Being with that Wisdom, the one on
                                                        the path feels the situation is not
                                                        defined as good or bad, but God's
                                                        will, and so petitions for the
                                                        Knowledge of right behavior to deal
                                                        wisely in the circumstance.

                                                        58. A tortoise withdraws head and
                                                        limbs when disturbed, and a Yogi,
                                                        when confronted with an attractive
                                                        sight or painful scene reflexively
                                                        pulls in to contemplate the situation
                                                        knowing a moment's reflection
                                                        brings Wisdom.

                                                        59. Seeing an object of desire, a
                                                        person remains abstinent upon
                                                        leaving the longing behind. Even a
                                                        hint of the desirable reaction drops
                                                        away from the person who perceives
                                                        the Supreme.
                                                      • westwindwood2003
                                                        60. The wise person strives for perfection; turbulent situations though, the chaos of the day, violently carries away the mind. OK, so don t hesitate to
                                                        Message 27 of 28 , Jun 18, 2008
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                                                          60. The wise person strives for
                                                          perfection; turbulent situations
                                                          though, the chaos of the day,
                                                          violently carries away the mind.

                                                          OK, so don't hesitate to meditate!

                                                          61. The yogi controls the chaos of
                                                          the day, these thoughts restrained
                                                          and joined together. Focus on God
                                                          and the yogi's thoughts are settled.

                                                          The turbulent thoughts of the yogi
                                                          are allowed to surface in meditation,
                                                          and the calming effect of the
                                                          meditation experience affects a
                                                          change in the mind (this just happens
                                                          without any attempt at control). With
                                                          the calming, the focus can them be
                                                          brought to God, who then brings
                                                          wisdom allowing the thoughts to be
                                                          settled.

                                                          62. Objects of the senses, (what
                                                          causes the turbulent thoughts of a
                                                          person) cause strong attachment
                                                          because a person has the propensity
                                                          for that particular object of the
                                                          senses. From this attachment comes
                                                          desire and from desire a kind of
                                                          anger, of that is mine,
                                                          possessiveness.

                                                          Attachment caused by their own
                                                          personality, or perhaps we could say
                                                          from their previous karma gives
                                                          material to work on in meditation.

                                                          63. From anger comes delusion and
                                                          from this delusion comes a forgetting
                                                          of facts (memory of what really
                                                          happened or how things are), and
                                                          this loss of reason with impetuous
                                                          behavior, results in death.

                                                          Why am I thinking of a motorcycle
                                                          going 110 mph on a windy country
                                                          road? Actually, this could be most
                                                          anything and usually results in a visit
                                                          from a police officer, or at best
                                                          recognition of out of control feelings
                                                          that need to be worked on in
                                                          meditation.
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