Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

The Bhagavad Gita

Expand Messages
  • westwindwood2003
    Chapter I The Bhagavad Gita, which I shall call the Gita hereafter has been called the Bible of India. The setting of the Gita is a battlefield where Sri
    Message 1 of 28 , Mar 3, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Chapter I
      The Bhagavad Gita, which I shall call the Gita hereafter has been
      called the Bible of India. The setting of the Gita is a battlefield
      where Sri Krishna has promised to help both sides. There are two
      choices; one side gets the wherewithal of earthly endeavors while
      Krishna offers to place his unarmed self on the other side. Arjuna
      is first and chooses Krishna, and Duryodhana is relieved because he
      gets all the resources of the world. So, the armies gather on the
      field where previous religious sacrifices have made the battlefield a
      spiritual place. When Duryodhana sees the army Arjuna is part of, he
      notes strong warriors, but states he also has the same on his side
      and so states to his preceptor, a Brahman who has also taught archery
      to some of those in the army associated with Arjuna. Duryodhana then
      goes on to brag about how huge his army is and how meager the other,
      but uses words that can also mean huge and disorganized, thrown
      together willy-nilly, compared to compact and well disciplined. Lots
      of horn blowing commences on both sides, then Arjuna asks Krishna to
      place the war chariot between the armies so that he can have a look
      at the enemy and then sees relatives on both sides. Arjuna falters in
      his resolution to fight. The Gita is allegorical so Arjuna is really
      faced with going for the spiritual approach to life and he has to
      decide. The spiritual against the human condition with its enjoyment
      and pleasures and all his relatives in the army of Duryodhana as part
      of that human condition is the choice. Arjuna thinks it would be a
      sin to slay these miscreants, but the next few verses go on to say
      how nasty these folks really are and how impiety would corrupt family
      life if they were allowed to win. Overwhelmed with sorrow for the
      coming fight, Arjuna puts down his weapons.

      Chapter II
      Arjuna is overcome with compassion, distress and tears; and needs
      help. The Lord now speaks for the first time in the Gita and at this
      point the real Gita proper is initiated with a statement of the
      fundamental message: Arjuna, do not be without strength and yield to
      weakness of the heart. Stand up oh scorcher of foes. So Arjuna says:
      Lord who is slayer of foes, how can I attack the people in the
      opposition who are worthy of worship, one who is verily the
      embodiment of chastity and self denial, and the other a man of right
      conduct who was my teacher? Wealth and desires of this world would
      be tainted with blood. Which is best I do not know, they conquering
      us or we them. After slaying them we should not care to live. With
      nature overpowered by taint of pity, with mind in confusion about
      duty, decisively say what I should do as I am your disciple and You
      my refuge. This is significant because before this Arjuna was
      concerned about pleasant things, learning, wealth, culture, wives,
      progeny, kingdom. Now, he has reoriented to want what is good and
      this is a prerequisite for enlightenment. Arjuna says: Nothing I see
      would remove grief that dries up my senses, even if I have the most
      prosperous kingdom and dominion over the celestials.

      Now a minister to the king whose army is fighting against the army
      Arjuna is in has the temporary ability to tell all of the foregoing
      to the king even though remote from the battlefield. The minister now
      goes on to describe Arjuna as not wanting to fight; however, Arjuna
      is one who can control the need for sleep, and this signifies he has
      some level of attainment with matters of meditation, and therefore he
      is bound to make the correct choice. Arjuna is unlikely to call off
      the war although the king wishes he would do so.

      Hrishikesa (Krishna) smiles and now speaks the words to the
      despondent one between the two armies.

      Those who should not be grieved for, you have grieved for, although
      you have words of wisdom. For the dead, the living, the wise grieve
      not. Here Arjuna does not possess the first characteristic of a
      Yogi, the integration of thought, speech and action and he is warned
      about loosing yoga. Bodies come and go, but the Atman exists both
      past and future. The soul in this body experiences childhood, youth
      and old age, then moves to another body. The enlightened know this
      and death is OK.

      (Chapter II to be continued later)
    • westwindwood2003
      In the Gita the confusion of Arjuna is confronted with the admonition that he must not be a coward and get on with the battle of fighting evil. Because of my
      Message 2 of 28 , Mar 8, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        In the Gita the confusion of Arjuna is confronted with the admonition
        that he must not be a coward and get on with the battle of fighting
        evil. Because of my own experience, I can understand his confusion.
        I was confused myself on my first enlightenment. Before this I had
        some concept of right and wrong; and I felt like I could deal with
        life. After that experience, it really was like being placed between
        the old ways of life with its insolvable hassles and the battle of
        trying my hardest to follow this new way of life of following what is
        found in the enlightenment experience. Previously I had some
        intellectual concept that the two armies existed; however, for the
        first time I understood that me, myself, and I had to actually make a
        choice. Before, I did not realize there was a choice. Was I a
        coward myself? Yes! A comparison is made between my old life and the
        possibility of this new endeavor; kind of like Arjuna's looking at
        the good parts the army, which is based on the resources of the
        physical experience, and looking at the army where Arjuna would
        always do the right thing absolutely. With first enlightenment there
        is now a clearly defined choice what was not previously perceived.

        You may ask, why is this such a big deal, shouldn't a person be able
        to do this easily? Now consider, you will have to give up the idea
        that you can deal with pursuing life's pleasures successfully.
        Forget that completely. You will have these successive enlightenment
        experiences while meditating always telling you to change who you are
        by doing some particular task differently from how you would have
        done so in the past as prompted by your intellect and subconscious
        feelings. And by the way, subconscious feelings always rule the
        intellect, the intellect only confirms what the subconscious feelings
        wanted all along, you just did not realize this until you got into
        meditation and started to understand how you mind works. I honestly
        do not know why, but I decided to join the army of righteously doing
        life. I just knew that I should do it. Maybe Krishna or one of his
        manifestations was there for me also as a guide as He was for Arjuna.
        I would also like to point out that this is nothing like a
        fundamentalist Christian preacher on the bully pulpit stating in a
        loud voice that you should have FAITH. It is abased on the actual
        experience of profoundly understanding the differing natures of the
        two armies, not at an intellectual level, but rather at the deepest
        feeling level because of the profound experience of enlightenment for
        the first time.
      • Balasubramanian Radhakrishnan Kumar
        Do not be confused like Arjuna. Live in the NOW . You will experience wonders in this life. Lead the life and do not react to Life Situations ! ...
        Message 3 of 28 , Mar 8, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Do not be confused like Arjuna. Live in the "NOW". You will experience wonders in this life. Lead the life and do not react to Life Situations !
          ________________________________
          > To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
          > From: westwindwood2003@...
          > Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 19:22:02 +0000
          > Subject: [Meditation Society of America] The Bhagavad Gita 2
          >
          >
          > In the Gita the confusion of Arjuna is confronted with the admonition
          > that he must not be a coward and get on with the battle of fighting
          > evil. Because of my own experience, I can understand his confusion.
          > I was confused myself on my first enlightenment. Before this I had
          > some concept of right and wrong; and I felt like I could deal with
          > life. After that experience, it really was like being placed between
          > the old ways of life with its insolvable hassles and the battle of
          > trying my hardest to follow this new way of life of following what is
          > found in the enlightenment experience. Previously I had some
          > intellectual concept that the two armies existed; however, for the
          > first time I understood that me, myself, and I had to actually make a
          > choice. Before, I did not realize there was a choice. Was I a
          > coward myself? Yes! A comparison is made between my old life and the
          > possibility of this new endeavor; kind of like Arjuna's looking at
          > the good parts the army, which is based on the resources of the
          > physical experience, and looking at the army where Arjuna would
          > always do the right thing absolutely. With first enlightenment there
          > is now a clearly defined choice what was not previously perceived.
          >
          > You may ask, why is this such a big deal, shouldn't a person be able
          > to do this easily? Now consider, you will have to give up the idea
          > that you can deal with pursuing life's pleasures successfully.
          > Forget that completely. You will have these successive enlightenment
          > experiences while meditating always telling you to change who you are
          > by doing some particular task differently from how you would have
          > done so in the past as prompted by your intellect and subconscious
          > feelings. And by the way, subconscious feelings always rule the
          > intellect, the intellect only confirms what the subconscious feelings
          > wanted all along, you just did not realize this until you got into
          > meditation and started to understand how you mind works. I honestly
          > do not know why, but I decided to join the army of righteously doing
          > life. I just knew that I should do it. Maybe Krishna or one of his
          > manifestations was there for me also as a guide as He was for Arjuna.
          > I would also like to point out that this is nothing like a
          > fundamentalist Christian preacher on the bully pulpit stating in a
          > loud voice that you should have FAITH. It is abased on the actual
          > experience of profoundly understanding the differing natures of the
          > two armies, not at an intellectual level, but rather at the deepest
          > feeling level because of the profound experience of enlightenment for
          > the first time.
          >
          >
          >

          _________________________________________________________________
          Post free property ads on Yello Classifieds now! www.yello.in
          http://ss1.richmedia.in/recurl.asp?pid=220
        • jogeshwarmahanta
          Geeta appears in Bhishma parva of Mahabhararat. Arjun Plunged into depression and Lord Krishna counselled him to recover. It is a great document on
          Message 4 of 28 , Mar 8, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Geeta appears in Bhishma parva of Mahabhararat. Arjun Plunged into
            depression and Lord Krishna counselled him to recover. It is a great
            document on management.It is about higher mental processes and a
            dialogue between Arjun and Lord Krishna. Much before that Arjun had
            learnt ethics from Brihaspati, the guru of gods. So the Geeta is
            beyond the comprehension of common man. Here the objective was to
            recover a great warrior from depression.

            After Mahabharat war Yudhisthir plunged into much worse
            condition. Lord Krishna led him to Bhishma who was in Sarasajaya
            then.Shanti parva and Anushashan parva is a very long dialogue
            between Bhishma and Yudhisdhir. Other brothers were audience. Shanti
            parva is the largest parva in Mahabharat. The two parvas cover
            counselling on every aspect of life including administration.

            So please go through Shanti parva and Anushashana parva. I am sure
            you will enjoy and enrich youself beyond your expectation.
            regards


            --- In
            meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
            <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
            >
            > Chapter I
            > The Bhagavad Gita, which I shall call the Gita hereafter has been
            > called the Bible of India. The setting of the Gita is a
            battlefield
            > where Sri Krishna has promised to help both sides. There are two
            > choices; one side gets the wherewithal of earthly endeavors while
            > Krishna offers to place his unarmed self on the other side.
            Arjuna
            > is first and chooses Krishna, and Duryodhana is relieved because
            he
            > gets all the resources of the world. So, the armies gather on the
            > field where previous religious sacrifices have made the
            battlefield a
            > spiritual place. When Duryodhana sees the army Arjuna is part of,
            he
            > notes strong warriors, but states he also has the same on his side
            > and so states to his preceptor, a Brahman who has also taught
            archery
            > to some of those in the army associated with Arjuna. Duryodhana
            then
            > goes on to brag about how huge his army is and how meager the
            other,
            > but uses words that can also mean huge and disorganized, thrown
            > together willy-nilly, compared to compact and well disciplined.
            Lots
            > of horn blowing commences on both sides, then Arjuna asks Krishna
            to
            > place the war chariot between the armies so that he can have a
            look
            > at the enemy and then sees relatives on both sides. Arjuna falters
            in
            > his resolution to fight. The Gita is allegorical so Arjuna is
            really
            > faced with going for the spiritual approach to life and he has to
            > decide. The spiritual against the human condition with its
            enjoyment
            > and pleasures and all his relatives in the army of Duryodhana as
            part
            > of that human condition is the choice. Arjuna thinks it would be
            a
            > sin to slay these miscreants, but the next few verses go on to say
            > how nasty these folks really are and how impiety would corrupt
            family
            > life if they were allowed to win. Overwhelmed with sorrow for the
            > coming fight, Arjuna puts down his weapons.
            >
            > Chapter II
            > Arjuna is overcome with compassion, distress and tears; and needs
            > help. The Lord now speaks for the first time in the Gita and at
            this
            > point the real Gita proper is initiated with a statement of the
            > fundamental message: Arjuna, do not be without strength and yield
            to
            > weakness of the heart. Stand up oh scorcher of foes. So Arjuna
            says:
            > Lord who is slayer of foes, how can I attack the people in the
            > opposition who are worthy of worship, one who is verily the
            > embodiment of chastity and self denial, and the other a man of
            right
            > conduct who was my teacher? Wealth and desires of this world
            would
            > be tainted with blood. Which is best I do not know, they
            conquering
            > us or we them. After slaying them we should not care to live.
            With
            > nature overpowered by taint of pity, with mind in confusion about
            > duty, decisively say what I should do as I am your disciple and
            You
            > my refuge. This is significant because before this Arjuna was
            > concerned about pleasant things, learning, wealth, culture, wives,
            > progeny, kingdom. Now, he has reoriented to want what is good and
            > this is a prerequisite for enlightenment. Arjuna says: Nothing I
            see
            > would remove grief that dries up my senses, even if I have the
            most
            > prosperous kingdom and dominion over the celestials.
            >
            > Now a minister to the king whose army is fighting against the army
            > Arjuna is in has the temporary ability to tell all of the
            foregoing
            > to the king even though remote from the battlefield. The minister
            now
            > goes on to describe Arjuna as not wanting to fight; however,
            Arjuna
            > is one who can control the need for sleep, and this signifies he
            has
            > some level of attainment with matters of meditation, and therefore
            he
            > is bound to make the correct choice. Arjuna is unlikely to call
            off
            > the war although the king wishes he would do so.
            >
            > Hrishikesa (Krishna) smiles and now speaks the words to the
            > despondent one between the two armies.
            >
            > Those who should not be grieved for, you have grieved for,
            although
            > you have words of wisdom. For the dead, the living, the wise
            grieve
            > not. Here Arjuna does not possess the first characteristic of a
            > Yogi, the integration of thought, speech and action and he is
            warned
            > about loosing yoga. Bodies come and go, but the Atman exists both
            > past and future. The soul in this body experiences childhood,
            youth
            > and old age, then moves to another body. The enlightened know
            this
            > and death is OK.
            >
            > (Chapter II to be continued later)
            >
          • westwindwood2003
            Heat, cold, pleasure, pain, comes and goes, impermanent. Just bear patiently and the person is a star among people. Pleasure and pain does not matter and so
            Message 5 of 28 , Mar 11, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Heat, cold, pleasure, pain, comes and goes, impermanent. Just bear
              patiently and the person is a star among people. Pleasure and pain
              does not matter and so the person is fit for immortality. The
              foregoing is not a matter of belief, but of experience. A person who
              is working with enlightenment to improve themselves just takes what
              is happening in their life as stimulation to bring material up to be
              worked on. In doing so they are working toward immortality, giving
              up their desires, letting them evaporate under the influence of the
              enlightenment experience. Now the next line from the Gita seems to
              go in a curious circle, but not really. When I first looked at this,
              I did so intellectually, but then I meditated about it in the
              enlightenment mode. Not of the unreal is being, and not non-being is
              of the real. The knower of truth sees indeed the absolute truth of
              these two. OK, these come out of the meditation experience. There
              is the discovery of the unreal bubbling forth from the desires of the
              subconscious and the being that gives the guidance to the unreal
              desires that cause evolution into the real. The knower of the truth
              understands these two things and the interconnectedness.

              Indestructible indeed that, known by thou whom perceives that all
              this is pervaded; destruction of this imperishable is not possible by
              anyone. Well, if you meditate and are undergoing the repeated
              enlightenment experience, you definitely know that the answers you
              get are imperishable and indestructible, very consistent and you had
              just better do it so that you can evolve towards that, probably
              taking lifetimes. The Gita goes on with this indestructible Atman
              theme for quite a few stanzas and that is what you are working on for
              enlightenment.

              The phenomenal is explained –Having a goal these everlasting bodies
              are manifested with the indestructible and the immeasurable;
              therefore fight O Bharata (Arjuna).

              He who thinks of the self believes in slaying and slain. Both are not
              reality as It slays not, nor is It slain.

              Not born like physical, it does not die or die at any time, this
              having been and will be, not instantly unborn. Eternal, changeless,
              this is ancient and not killed when the body is killed.

              Know indestructible, eternal, who this self unborn, inexhaustible.
              Arjuna, who causes slaying, or causes another to slay?

              Like discarded worn out clothes, other physical bodies are taken, so
              bodies are cast away and the one new entered into.
            • westwindwood2003
              The English translation I am using is The Bhagavad Gita with commentary by Swami Chidbhavananda in case anyone is curious. I believe it is used as a college
              Message 6 of 28 , Mar 17, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                The English translation I am using is The Bhagavad Gita with
                commentary by Swami Chidbhavananda in case anyone is curious. I
                believe it is used as a college textbook in India. Commencing with
                Chapter 2 Verse 23 and 24:

                Weapons do not cut, fire does not burn and, water not wet and wind
                not dry It (Atman, Self)

                It (Atman, universal) cannot be cut, burnt, wetted, dried; also It is
                eternal, all pervading, stable, immovable, and ancient.

                If a person has never taken up meditation, then these two verses are
                the foundation for their meditation commencement and then the ongoing
                evolution. First off, a person may not be aware that they have a
                soul (Atman), one with the attributes found in Verse 23 so the Gita
                so states that one does. Now Atman can also mean the universal soul,
                which is brought forth in Verse 24. As a person evolves through the
                enlightenment found in meditation, the individual Self of Verse 23
                takes on the characteristics of the universal Atman of Verse 24.

                Verse 25:
                This is said: un-manifested, unthinkable, unchangeable; having known
                this, grieve not.

                However, it is possible to experience the foregoing (Atman) through
                meditation, and therefore grieve not for there is all comfort found
                here. All is taken care of for you.
              • westwindwood2003
                The materialistic standpoint, nothing is permanent, nihilism, atheism, (unorthodox opinions) 26. Consider: And now this constantly aborning, or thinking
                Message 7 of 28 , Mar 19, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  The materialistic standpoint, nothing is permanent, nihilism,
                  atheism, (unorthodox opinions)

                  26. Consider: And now this constantly aborning, or thinking death,
                  this is inevitable, even then Oh Mighty Armed, do not grieve. (All
                  together now, one, two, three, in two part harmony)

                  27. Of the born, for certain there is death, and a birth for that
                  which is dead, and therefore the matter is inevitable. You aught not
                  to grieve. (Life, death, life, death, life, death… one after the
                  other as long as there is karma to work out and then nothing at the
                  end, or maybe it's just an exchange of one physical entity for
                  another over and over again. This is for the materialists, but what
                  of enlightenment for thou?)

                  28. Un-manifested in the beginning, beings manifested in their middle
                  state O Bharatha, un-manifested again in the end, so again what grief
                  is there? (Nature dictates there be manifestations, but there is no
                  Self through it all)

                  The above opinions, although not in agreement with accepted beliefs,
                  are examined. Ultimately, no big deal because whatever you believe,
                  when you get whacked up the side of the head with enlightenment, then
                  you have to accept It and get off your duff, and give up despondency
                  or whatever you were clinging to, or believing in, accept It and go
                  forth.
                • sean tremblay
                  Agreed, belief is just belief and what is,is regardless westwindwood2003 wrote: The materialistic standpoint, nothing is
                  Message 8 of 28 , Mar 20, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Agreed,
                    belief is just belief and what is,is regardless

                    westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                    The materialistic standpoint, nothing is permanent, nihilism,
                    atheism, (unorthodox opinions)

                    26. Consider: And now this constantly aborning, or thinking death,
                    this is inevitable, even then Oh Mighty Armed, do not grieve. (All
                    together now, one, two, three, in two part harmony)

                    27. Of the born, for certain there is death, and a birth for that
                    which is dead, and therefore the matter is inevitable. You aught not
                    to grieve. (Life, death, life, death, life, death… one after the
                    other as long as there is karma to work out and then nothing at the
                    end, or maybe it's just an exchange of one physical entity for
                    another over and over again. This is for the materialists, but what
                    of enlightenment for thou?)

                    28. Un-manifested in the beginning, beings manifested in their middle
                    state O Bharatha, un-manifested again in the end, so again what grief
                    is there? (Nature dictates there be manifestations, but there is no
                    Self through it all)

                    The above opinions, although not in agreement with accepted beliefs,
                    are examined. Ultimately, no big deal because whatever you believe,
                    when you get whacked up the side of the head with enlightenment, then
                    you have to accept It and get off your duff, and give up despondency
                    or whatever you were clinging to, or believing in, accept It and go
                    forth.



                    Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                  • westwindwood2003
                    Atman transcends mind, speech, and understanding 29: Enlightenment happens to someone: astonished, awed, in wonder, overwhelmed even; therefore, the speaking
                    Message 9 of 28 , Mar 20, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Atman transcends mind, speech, and understanding

                      29: Enlightenment happens to someone: astonished, awed, in wonder,
                      overwhelmed even; therefore, the speaking of this foregoing to another,
                      the superlative words are not nearly enough, and so this other knows
                      not of what is trying to be expressed, the words bring no
                      understanding. To the casual bystanders all this description means
                      nothing whatsoever.

                      30: In all bodies is the indestructible Indweller, O Bharta (Arjuna),
                      grieve not for them at all.

                      Well, since you have the Indweller, you work with yourself so that if
                      It is revealed, the superlative guidance and wisdom presented for the
                      Self to take up, to evolve towards the Indweller's nature will be
                      undertaken.
                    • westwindwood2003
                      Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37 31. One is born into the class of people that fight for righteousness, and nothing is higher that this duty, so look at not to
                      Message 10 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37


                        31. One is born into the class of people that fight for
                        righteousness, and nothing is higher that this duty, so look at not
                        to waver.

                        32. It has happened at this time that the gift of enlightenment is
                        apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go into this battle.

                        33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare that is you fame, your
                        duty, abandonment shall incur sin.

                        34. Your dishonor will be told about by the honored and this
                        everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death

                        35. Other warriors who have experienced enlightenment and currently
                        hold you in high esteem will decide you are a light weigh for
                        withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.

                        36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many will say your enemies
                        will criticize your petty power. What could be more painful than
                        this?

                        37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious you will enjoy the
                        earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to fight.
                      • sandeep chatterjee
                        Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                        Message 11 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.

                          westwindwood2003 wrote:
                          > Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                          > 31. One is born into the class of people that fight for
                          > righteousness, and nothing is higher that this duty, so look at not
                          > to waver.
                          > 32. It has happened at this time that the gift of enlightenment is
                          > apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go into this battle.
                          > 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare that is you fame, your
                          > duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                          > 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the honored and this
                          > everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                          > 35. Other warriors who have experienced enlightenment and currently
                          > hold you in high esteem will decide you are a light weigh for
                          > withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                          > 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many will say your enemies
                          > will criticize your petty power. What could be more painful than
                          > this?
                          > 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious you will enjoy the
                          > earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to fight.
                          >
                        • sean tremblay
                          And has been the rallying battle cry of all commanders to the troops of all nations who make war! In the context of Ajuna s reluctance in a military sense,
                          Message 12 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            And has been the rallying battle cry of all commanders
                            to the troops of all nations who make war!
                            In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a military
                            sense, this is something I myself have struggled with.
                            I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma is to
                            explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
                            insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
                            soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
                            anarchist at heart with a didain for authority and a
                            dislike of possesing authority over others yet.... I
                            find the military in some form or other keeps creeping
                            it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I must
                            break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
                            --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:

                            > Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                            >
                            > westwindwood2003 wrote:
                            > > Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                            > > 31. One is born into the class of people that
                            > fight for
                            > > righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
                            > duty, so look at not
                            > > to waver.
                            > > 32. It has happened at this time that the gift of
                            > enlightenment is
                            > > apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go into
                            > this battle.
                            > > 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare that
                            > is you fame, your
                            > > duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                            > > 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
                            > honored and this
                            > > everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                            > > 35. Other warriors who have experienced
                            > enlightenment and currently
                            > > hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
                            > light weigh for
                            > > withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                            > > 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
                            > will say your enemies
                            > > will criticize your petty power. What could be
                            > more painful than
                            > > this?
                            > > 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious you
                            > will enjoy the
                            > > earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to fight.
                            > >
                            >
                            >



                            ____________________________________________________________________________________
                            Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                            http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                          • Jeff Belyea
                            Sean - Krisna s advice to Arjuna is in the context of consciousness. The battleground is the mind and the concepts that the illusory and secondary identity
                            Message 13 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Sean -

                              Krisna's advice to Arjuna is
                              in the context of consciousness.
                              The battleground is the mind
                              and the concepts that the illusory
                              and secondary identity (ego)
                              finds so precious.

                              Enlightenment - in one aspect, the
                              victory over ego attachments - reveals
                              a primary identity that has absolute
                              clarity and no unanswered questions
                              ...nothing to resolve...perfect peace
                              of mind and utter tranquility.

                              Jeff


                              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
                              <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > And has been the rallying battle cry of all commanders
                              > to the troops of all nations who make war!
                              > In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a military
                              > sense, this is something I myself have struggled with.
                              > I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma is to
                              > explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
                              > insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
                              > soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
                              > anarchist at heart with a didain for authority and a
                              > dislike of possesing authority over others yet.... I
                              > find the military in some form or other keeps creeping
                              > it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I must
                              > break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
                              > --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                              > >
                              > > westwindwood2003 wrote:
                              > > > Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                              > > > 31. One is born into the class of people that
                              > > fight for
                              > > > righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
                              > > duty, so look at not
                              > > > to waver.
                              > > > 32. It has happened at this time that the gift of
                              > > enlightenment is
                              > > > apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go into
                              > > this battle.
                              > > > 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare that
                              > > is you fame, your
                              > > > duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                              > > > 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
                              > > honored and this
                              > > > everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                              > > > 35. Other warriors who have experienced
                              > > enlightenment and currently
                              > > > hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
                              > > light weigh for
                              > > > withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                              > > > 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
                              > > will say your enemies
                              > > > will criticize your petty power. What could be
                              > > more painful than
                              > > > this?
                              > > > 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious you
                              > > will enjoy the
                              > > > earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to fight.
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              ______________________________________________________________________
                              ______________
                              > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                              > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                              >
                            • sean tremblay
                              yep, I understand it both ways ... ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your
                              Message 14 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                yep, I understand it both ways
                                --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:

                                > Sean -
                                >
                                > Krisna's advice to Arjuna is
                                > in the context of consciousness.
                                > The battleground is the mind
                                > and the concepts that the illusory
                                > and secondary identity (ego)
                                > finds so precious.
                                >
                                > Enlightenment - in one aspect, the
                                > victory over ego attachments - reveals
                                > a primary identity that has absolute
                                > clarity and no unanswered questions
                                > ...nothing to resolve...perfect peace
                                > of mind and utter tranquility.
                                >
                                > Jeff
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                > sean tremblay
                                > <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > And has been the rallying battle cry of all
                                > commanders
                                > > to the troops of all nations who make war!
                                > > In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a military
                                > > sense, this is something I myself have struggled
                                > with.
                                > > I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma is
                                > to
                                > > explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
                                > > insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
                                > > soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
                                > > anarchist at heart with a didain for authority and
                                > a
                                > > dislike of possesing authority over others yet....
                                > I
                                > > find the military in some form or other keeps
                                > creeping
                                > > it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I must
                                > > break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
                                > > --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                                > > >
                                > > > westwindwood2003 wrote:
                                > > > > Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                                > > > > 31. One is born into the class of people that
                                > > > fight for
                                > > > > righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
                                > > > duty, so look at not
                                > > > > to waver.
                                > > > > 32. It has happened at this time that the gift
                                > of
                                > > > enlightenment is
                                > > > > apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go
                                > into
                                > > > this battle.
                                > > > > 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare
                                > that
                                > > > is you fame, your
                                > > > > duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                                > > > > 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
                                > > > honored and this
                                > > > > everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                                >
                                > > > > 35. Other warriors who have experienced
                                > > > enlightenment and currently
                                > > > > hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
                                > > > light weigh for
                                > > > > withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                                >
                                > > > > 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
                                > > > will say your enemies
                                > > > > will criticize your petty power. What could
                                > be
                                > > > more painful than
                                > > > > this?
                                > > > > 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious
                                > you
                                > > > will enjoy the
                                > > > > earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to
                                > fight.
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                ______________________________________________________________________
                                > ______________
                                > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                                > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >



                                ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                                http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                              • sean tremblay
                                to bad that idea didn t make to the guys with the ammonium nitrate. I do realize that the most violent segments of any religion realy are a minority. Was it
                                Message 15 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  to bad that idea didn't make to the guys with the
                                  ammonium nitrate.
                                  I do realize that the most violent segments of any
                                  religion realy are a minority. Was it Socrates who
                                  said there have always coexisted two religions one for
                                  the masses and one for the initiate? any way it was
                                  one of the great greeks
                                  --- Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:

                                  > The Islamic concept of jihad
                                  > is understood in a similarly
                                  > bifurcated way -- Muslim
                                  > moderates tend to see it as
                                  > referring to an inner
                                  > struggle toward understanding
                                  > and righteousness, while
                                  > various fundy factions
                                  > interpret it literally as war
                                  > against "infidels" on behalf
                                  > of Islam itself.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > sean tremblay wrote:
                                  > > yep, I understand it both ways
                                  > > --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >> Sean -
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Krisna's advice to Arjuna is
                                  > >> in the context of consciousness.
                                  > >> The battleground is the mind
                                  > >> and the concepts that the illusory
                                  > >> and secondary identity (ego)
                                  > >> finds so precious.
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Enlightenment - in one aspect, the
                                  > >> victory over ego attachments - reveals
                                  > >> a primary identity that has absolute
                                  > >> clarity and no unanswered questions
                                  > >> ...nothing to resolve...perfect peace
                                  > >> of mind and utter tranquility.
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Jeff
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >> --- In
                                  > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                  > >> sean tremblay
                                  > >> <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                                  > >>
                                  > >>> And has been the rallying battle cry of all
                                  > >>>
                                  > >> commanders
                                  > >>
                                  > >>> to the troops of all nations who make war!
                                  > >>> In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a
                                  > military
                                  > >>> sense, this is something I myself have struggled
                                  > >>>
                                  > >> with.
                                  > >>
                                  > >>> I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma
                                  > is
                                  > >>>
                                  > >> to
                                  > >>
                                  > >>> explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
                                  > >>> insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
                                  > >>> soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
                                  > >>> anarchist at heart with a didain for authority
                                  > and
                                  > >>>
                                  > >> a
                                  > >>
                                  > >>> dislike of possesing authority over others
                                  > yet....
                                  > >>>
                                  > >> I
                                  > >>
                                  > >>> find the military in some form or other keeps
                                  > >>>
                                  > >> creeping
                                  > >>
                                  > >>> it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I
                                  > must
                                  > >>> break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
                                  > >>> --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>> Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>> westwindwood2003 wrote:
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>> Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                                  > >>>>> 31. One is born into the class of people that
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>> fight for
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>> righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>> duty, so look at not
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>> to waver.
                                  > >>>>> 32. It has happened at this time that the gift
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >> of
                                  > >>
                                  > >>>> enlightenment is
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>> apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >> into
                                  > >>
                                  > >>>> this battle.
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>> 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >> that
                                  > >>
                                  > >>>> is you fame, your
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>> duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                                  > >>>>> 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>> honored and this
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>> everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>> 35. Other warriors who have experienced
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>> enlightenment and currently
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>> hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>> light weigh for
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>> withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>> 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>> will say your enemies
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>> will criticize your petty power. What could
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >> be
                                  > >>
                                  > >>>> more painful than
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>> this?
                                  > >>>>> 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >> you
                                  > >>
                                  > >>>> will enjoy the
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>> earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >> fight.
                                  > >>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  >
                                  >


                                  ____________________________________________________________________________________
                                  Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
                                  http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                • Bruce Morgen
                                  The Islamic concept of jihad is understood in a similarly bifurcated way -- Muslim moderates tend to see it as referring to an inner struggle toward
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Mar 23, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    The Islamic concept of jihad
                                    is understood in a similarly
                                    bifurcated way -- Muslim
                                    moderates tend to see it as
                                    referring to an inner
                                    struggle toward understanding
                                    and righteousness, while
                                    various fundy factions
                                    interpret it literally as war
                                    against "infidels" on behalf
                                    of Islam itself.


                                    sean tremblay wrote:
                                    > yep, I understand it both ways
                                    > --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >> Sean -
                                    >>
                                    >> Krisna's advice to Arjuna is
                                    >> in the context of consciousness.
                                    >> The battleground is the mind
                                    >> and the concepts that the illusory
                                    >> and secondary identity (ego)
                                    >> finds so precious.
                                    >>
                                    >> Enlightenment - in one aspect, the
                                    >> victory over ego attachments - reveals
                                    >> a primary identity that has absolute
                                    >> clarity and no unanswered questions
                                    >> ...nothing to resolve...perfect peace
                                    >> of mind and utter tranquility.
                                    >>
                                    >> Jeff
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                                    >> sean tremblay
                                    >> <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >>> And has been the rallying battle cry of all
                                    >>>
                                    >> commanders
                                    >>
                                    >>> to the troops of all nations who make war!
                                    >>> In the context of Ajuna's reluctance in a military
                                    >>> sense, this is something I myself have struggled
                                    >>>
                                    >> with.
                                    >>
                                    >>> I learned my trade i the US Army and my Darma is
                                    >>>
                                    >> to
                                    >>
                                    >>> explore, ever sense I was a boy I have had an
                                    >>> insatiable curiosity. However in the context of
                                    >>> soldiering I was always at odds I am realy an
                                    >>> anarchist at heart with a didain for authority and
                                    >>>
                                    >> a
                                    >>
                                    >>> dislike of possesing authority over others yet....
                                    >>>
                                    >> I
                                    >>
                                    >>> find the military in some form or other keeps
                                    >>>
                                    >> creeping
                                    >>
                                    >>> it's way back into my life!? A karmic cycle I must
                                    >>> break? purhaps or Something I must give into?!
                                    >>> --- sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>> Thus spake Osama to the new Al Queda recruits.
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> westwindwood2003 wrote:
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>> Swerve Not From Duty 31 to 37
                                    >>>>> 31. One is born into the class of people that
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>> fight for
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>> righteousness, and nothing is higher that this
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>> duty, so look at not
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>> to waver.
                                    >>>>> 32. It has happened at this time that the gift
                                    >>>>>
                                    >> of
                                    >>
                                    >>>> enlightenment is
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>> apparent; O partha of the fighting class, go
                                    >>>>>
                                    >> into
                                    >>
                                    >>>> this battle.
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>> 33. But if you avoid this righteous warfare
                                    >>>>>
                                    >> that
                                    >>
                                    >>>> is you fame, your
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>> duty, abandonment shall incur sin.
                                    >>>>> 34. Your dishonor will be told about by the
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>> honored and this
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>> everlastingly so and exceeds the pain of death
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>> 35. Other warriors who have experienced
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>> enlightenment and currently
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>> hold you in high esteem will decide you are a
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>> light weigh for
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>> withdrawing from the battle for the spiritual.
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>> 36. Belittling words are to be spoken and many
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>> will say your enemies
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>> will criticize your petty power. What could
                                    >>>>>
                                    >> be
                                    >>
                                    >>>> more painful than
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>> this?
                                    >>>>> 37. In death you will gain heaven; victorious
                                    >>>>>
                                    >> you
                                    >>
                                    >>>> will enjoy the
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>>> earth. Therefore Arjuna, be resolved to
                                    >>>>>
                                    >> fight.
                                    >>
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>>
                                    >>>>
                                  • westwindwood2003
                                    38. Engage yourself in this battle where pain and pleasure, gain and loss, victory and defeat matter not. You incur no sin because all these pairs are
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Mar 30, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      38. Engage yourself in this battle where pain and pleasure, gain and
                                      loss, victory and defeat matter not. You incur no sin because all
                                      these pairs are released (let go of) in this battle for wisdom (right
                                      behavior).

                                      When you experience enlightenment, knowledge of how you should
                                      conduct your affairs is presented to you in meditation; you offer up
                                      the positive and negative feelings that have surfaced in meditation
                                      and ask for guidance. Your desire for a particular outcome is
                                      totally let go of and the insight of how you should proceed is given
                                      to you.

                                      39. Listen up Arjuna; taking up the yoke of Yoga means absolutely
                                      adhering to the Wisdom the yoga presents to you, and in doing so, the
                                      bondage of karma shall be removed.

                                      You will follow a wisdom not found in your own personality, something
                                      much better than your nature, and you will be changed for the better.

                                      40. In this most feeble of efforts there is no production of
                                      unfortunate results, even with uneven application, this duty protects
                                      against great fear.

                                      It has been a while since I started meditation, but I remember.
                                      Meditation was such a feeble tentative effort because of my karma, my
                                      condition. However, I was urged to continue by a wise person, and a
                                      tiny start was all it took; it was a beginning with good results. I
                                      did have great fear because I was so out of my comfort zone; having
                                      what I thought was control of my destiny (hah, what an illusion that
                                      is with all the self induced pain). So I worked on cultivating the
                                      relationship (I was uneven in the application because I LIKED the
                                      familiarity of my nature) with that Wisdom I had found, and with the
                                      procedure of doing meditation came calmness, the determination to do
                                      the right thing in giving up my karmic tendencies because life was
                                      better that way. The fear left soon on, but the propensities still
                                      persisted for many years and required much work.

                                      41. One pointed determination is the destiny of Arjuna (Oh the joy of
                                      the Kurus is he) because there is always a single answer for any
                                      specific problem. There is but one decision for a problem since he
                                      has taken to the spiritual battlefield. The mind not centered on the
                                      spiritual has much recourse, and multiple choices to resolve, but
                                      nothing becomes fixed as a solution.

                                      The wisdom in meditation is always consistent (you present the same
                                      problem again, and you get the same answer again), the answer hurts
                                      no one, and is really hard to do the new behavior to change the
                                      personality (and work out karma). The intellectual mind thinks of
                                      many solutions to a problem, which to choose? The emotional mind can
                                      be in chaos with all the feelings that surface, but the feelings come
                                      to one point with enough meditation, and then come the offering up of
                                      the issue to receive the wisdom on how to proceed.
                                    • westwindwood2003
                                      ... battlefield ... a ... he ... archery ... then ... other, ... Lots ... to ... in ... really ... enjoyment ... part ... family ... this ... to ... right ...
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Apr 6, 2008
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
                                        <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Chapter I
                                        > The Bhagavad Gita, which I shall call the Gita hereafter has been
                                        > called the Bible of India. The setting of the Gita is a
                                        battlefield
                                        > where Sri Krishna has promised to help both sides. There are two
                                        > choices; one side gets the wherewithal of earthly endeavors while
                                        > Krishna offers to place his unarmed self on the other side. Arjuna
                                        > is first and chooses Krishna, and Duryodhana is relieved because he
                                        > gets all the resources of the world. So, the armies gather on the
                                        > field where previous religious sacrifices have made the battlefield
                                        a
                                        > spiritual place. When Duryodhana sees the army Arjuna is part of,
                                        he
                                        > notes strong warriors, but states he also has the same on his side
                                        > and so states to his preceptor, a Brahman who has also taught
                                        archery
                                        > to some of those in the army associated with Arjuna. Duryodhana
                                        then
                                        > goes on to brag about how huge his army is and how meager the
                                        other,
                                        > but uses words that can also mean huge and disorganized, thrown
                                        > together willy-nilly, compared to compact and well disciplined.
                                        Lots
                                        > of horn blowing commences on both sides, then Arjuna asks Krishna
                                        to
                                        > place the war chariot between the armies so that he can have a look
                                        > at the enemy and then sees relatives on both sides. Arjuna falters
                                        in
                                        > his resolution to fight. The Gita is allegorical so Arjuna is
                                        really
                                        > faced with going for the spiritual approach to life and he has to
                                        > decide. The spiritual against the human condition with its
                                        enjoyment
                                        > and pleasures and all his relatives in the army of Duryodhana as
                                        part
                                        > of that human condition is the choice. Arjuna thinks it would be a
                                        > sin to slay these miscreants, but the next few verses go on to say
                                        > how nasty these folks really are and how impiety would corrupt
                                        family
                                        > life if they were allowed to win. Overwhelmed with sorrow for the
                                        > coming fight, Arjuna puts down his weapons.
                                        >
                                        > Chapter II
                                        > Arjuna is overcome with compassion, distress and tears; and needs
                                        > help. The Lord now speaks for the first time in the Gita and at
                                        this
                                        > point the real Gita proper is initiated with a statement of the
                                        > fundamental message: Arjuna, do not be without strength and yield
                                        to
                                        > weakness of the heart. Stand up oh scorcher of foes. So Arjuna
                                        says:
                                        > Lord who is slayer of foes, how can I attack the people in the
                                        > opposition who are worthy of worship, one who is verily the
                                        > embodiment of chastity and self denial, and the other a man of
                                        right
                                        > conduct who was my teacher? Wealth and desires of this world would
                                        > be tainted with blood. Which is best I do not know, they
                                        conquering
                                        > us or we them. After slaying them we should not care to live.
                                        With
                                        > nature overpowered by taint of pity, with mind in confusion about
                                        > duty, decisively say what I should do as I am your disciple and You
                                        > my refuge. This is significant because before this Arjuna was
                                        > concerned about pleasant things, learning, wealth, culture, wives,
                                        > progeny, kingdom. Now, he has reoriented to want what is good and
                                        > this is a prerequisite for enlightenment. Arjuna says: Nothing I
                                        see
                                        > would remove grief that dries up my senses, even if I have the most
                                        > prosperous kingdom and dominion over the celestials.
                                        >
                                        > Now a minister to the king whose army is fighting against the army
                                        > Arjuna is in has the temporary ability to tell all of the foregoing
                                        > to the king even though remote from the battlefield. The minister
                                        now
                                        > goes on to describe Arjuna as not wanting to fight; however, Arjuna
                                        > is one who can control the need for sleep, and this signifies he
                                        has
                                        > some level of attainment with matters of meditation, and therefore
                                        he
                                        > is bound to make the correct choice. Arjuna is unlikely to call
                                        off
                                        > the war although the king wishes he would do so.
                                        >
                                        > Hrishikesa (Krishna) smiles and now speaks the words to the
                                        > despondent one between the two armies.
                                        >
                                        > Those who should not be grieved for, you have grieved for, although
                                        > you have words of wisdom. For the dead, the living, the wise
                                        grieve
                                        > not. Here Arjuna does not possess the first characteristic of a
                                        > Yogi, the integration of thought, speech and action and he is
                                        warned
                                        > about loosing yoga. Bodies come and go, but the Atman exists both
                                        > past and future. The soul in this body experiences childhood, youth
                                        > and old age, then moves to another body. The enlightened know this
                                        > and death is OK.
                                        >
                                        > (Chapter II to be continued later)
                                        >
                                      • westwindwood2003
                                        A little background first. Prakriti or the phenomenal universe is delineated in the Vedic teaching. The Vedas identify the phenomenal universe so completely
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Jun 3, 2008
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          A little background first. Prakriti or the phenomenal universe is
                                          delineated in the Vedic teaching. The Vedas identify the phenomenal
                                          universe so completely that the phenomenal and Vedas are considered
                                          the same essence. The three Gunas are Sattva, Rajas and Tamas and
                                          constitute the Vedas. Sattva is an illumination shining forth from
                                          the individual through knowledge, Rajas characteristics are greed and
                                          selfish activities and Tamas inactivity, delusion, recklessness and
                                          darkness. The three Gunas compete with each other, create unbalance,
                                          and cause the propagation of the phenomenal universe.

                                          What does one then do? The Key is Yoga. In other words, do your
                                          meditation, offer up the work that is yours, perform the prescribed
                                          duty revealed to you and do not desire results one way or the other,
                                          just do the requested action found in meditation. In this way you
                                          will not be a producer of karma. The Gita states:

                                          45. Deal with the three attributes, the Vedas. Be without these three
                                          attributes Oh Arjuna, free from the pairs of opposites, ever remaining
                                          in the Sattva (goodness) free from (the thought of) material
                                          acquisition and preservation, established in the self.


                                          46. In this work, the only right thing for you is not desire the
                                          fruits of your effort. Also at any time, do not let this not wanting
                                          fruits of action be the motive because in not having your attachment
                                          you would let there be an inaction.

                                          Yoga eventually takes a person beyond the three Gunas so that even
                                          Sattva eventually fades as all is worked out.

                                          48. Steadfast in yoga, perform attachment abandonment, Oh Dhananjaya,
                                          in success and failure be the same as yoga is called having an
                                          evenness of mind.

                                          However, this can only be attained by meditation. It is not attained
                                          by act of willpower as the goings on are the doings of the Lord
                                          speaking within and the one who meditates is in the position of a
                                          willing servant. Just do it.
                                        • westwindwood2003
                                          49. Action not directed by yoga is by far most inferior. Oh Dhananjaya, the self-seekers, those taking advantage of opportunities without regard for the
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Jun 5, 2008
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            49. Action not directed by yoga is by far most
                                            inferior. Oh Dhananjaya, the self-seekers,
                                            those taking advantage of opportunities without
                                            regard for the consequences, have a wretched
                                            existence.

                                            The unaware person lives their life seeking
                                            pleasure, trying to get head. Perhaps something
                                            happens, some calamity or maybe it is just a
                                            realization that life is not right. There is
                                            religion to turn to, religious works and teachers.
                                            Ultimately though, there is the complete giving
                                            over to God, a total offering up of what one is
                                            striving for spiritually and seeking guidance in
                                            deep meditation, a discovery through yoga of
                                            the path to resolution of it all.

                                            50. With meditation comes a calmness of mind,
                                            tranquility. Also, there is wisdom that comes
                                            showing the actions, the feelings even, that
                                            needs to be acted upon to grow. There is
                                            perfection in this life following this path.
                                            Devote yourself to yoga. Good and evil deeds,
                                            how do I know which is which? Pursuing
                                            either should eventually cease. But, it will take
                                            decades to evolve through it all because it is
                                            hard to change ones personality.

                                            Intellectually we have a feeling for what is
                                            right and wrong, but this is action not directed
                                            by yoga and is inferior. For instance, I may
                                            help someone and that seems right to me;
                                            however, I might be keeping that person from
                                            discovering the path because they may not
                                            realize life needs working on. If I do not help
                                            them when I easily can do so, that might seem
                                            wrong. The answer to the proper action is
                                            revealed in meditation.

                                            51. The wise, those who meditate, let go of the
                                            desire, lets answers come when no ego
                                            intervenes, discerns proper action and go
                                            beyond evil, eventually evolving into the nature
                                            that frees them from being bound to birthing
                                            again.
                                          • westwindwood2003
                                            What happens to a yogi? These are active and passive. The following is passive because it just happens without effort. 51. When understanding from your
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Jun 6, 2008
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              What happens to a yogi? These are active
                                              and passive. The following is passive
                                              because it just happens without effort.

                                              51. When understanding from your practice
                                              comes, intellectual delusion is bypassed.
                                              You are indifferent to what others said in the
                                              past and what you shall hear in the future.

                                              This just happens automatically because of
                                              the immediate (in this very instant)
                                              Guidance. That Guidance is all there is; the
                                              intellect is inactive.

                                              52. Your intellect analyzes what others say
                                              and you can be confused by the many
                                              options. The yogi; however, can stand
                                              immovable in the Self with steady
                                              understanding of the course of action
                                              needed.
                                            • medit8ionsociety
                                              ... Yo Westwindwood, This and the previous Gita posting are, as usual, very great pointings. I like the term Guidance (with the capital G) as we often see
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Jun 7, 2008
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                "westwindwood2003" <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > What happens to a yogi? These are active
                                                > and passive. The following is passive
                                                > because it just happens without effort.
                                                >
                                                > 51. When understanding from your practice
                                                > comes, intellectual delusion is bypassed.
                                                > You are indifferent to what others said in the
                                                > past and what you shall hear in the future.
                                                >
                                                > This just happens automatically because of
                                                > the immediate (in this very instant)
                                                > Guidance. That Guidance is all there is; the
                                                > intellect is inactive.
                                                >
                                                > 52. Your intellect analyzes what others say
                                                > and you can be confused by the many
                                                > options. The yogi; however, can stand
                                                > immovable in the Self with steady
                                                > understanding of the course of action
                                                > needed.
                                                >
                                                Yo Westwindwood,
                                                This and the previous Gita posting are,
                                                as usual, very great pointings. I like
                                                the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
                                                we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
                                                with the term Guidance we also get the
                                                concept that a definitive understanding
                                                takes place that transcends the mind's usual
                                                "it could be like this, or it could be
                                                like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
                                                will be done" reality to take us over (and
                                                inner) and we then automatically let events
                                                of our life proceed as they may without
                                                any inner chattering that commonly brings
                                                us negativity (takes our peace away). And
                                                of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
                                                whatever masks cover this true identity.
                                                So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
                                                Thanks again for sharing.
                                                Peace and blessings,
                                                Bob
                                              • westwindwood2003
                                                I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little getting used to and
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Jun 7, 2008
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for
                                                  word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little
                                                  getting used to and sometimes the English words that are chosen by the
                                                  author have several definitions and the author sometime uses the more
                                                  obscure definition, so I find I have to use a dictionary some to get
                                                  the real meaning. What I then do is try and relate that word for word
                                                  English translation to my own meditation experience so that I can
                                                  express that translation in a way that is more understandable I hope.
                                                  What I find wonderful about the Gita is here are these words that in
                                                  a condensed kind of way outlines the spiritual experience, like
                                                  lecture notes that a teacher can expand on. Since I meditate myself,
                                                  I feel that I can do the subject some justice, but I sometimes wonder
                                                  if there might be better words than the ones I use.
                                                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety .

                                                  > Yo Westwindwood,
                                                  > This and the previous Gita posting are,
                                                  > as usual, very great pointings. I like
                                                  > the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
                                                  > we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
                                                  > with the term Guidance we also get the
                                                  > concept that a definitive understanding
                                                  > takes place that transcends the mind's usual
                                                  > "it could be like this, or it could be
                                                  > like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
                                                  > will be done" reality to take us over (and
                                                  > inner) and we then automatically let events
                                                  > of our life proceed as they may without
                                                  > any inner chattering that commonly brings
                                                  > us negativity (takes our peace away). And
                                                  > of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
                                                  > whatever masks cover this true identity.
                                                  > So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
                                                  > Thanks again for sharing.
                                                  > Peace and blessings,
                                                  > Bob
                                                  >
                                                • suman sk
                                                  Thanks for continued posting on the wisdom of Geeta. I read it everyday and find a wonderful insight into the true learning. It is a science in itself but only
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Jun 8, 2008
                                                  • 0 Attachment

                                                    Thanks for continued posting on the wisdom of Geeta.

                                                    I read it everyday and find a wonderful insight into the true learning.

                                                    It is a science in itself but only for the beleiver.

                                                    Om and God bless all of us

                                                     

                                                    Surendra K



                                                    --- On Sat, 6/7/08, westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:

                                                    From: westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@...>
                                                    Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Bhagavad Gita 12
                                                    To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Saturday, June 7, 2008, 11:53 PM

                                                    I cannot take very much credit. The book I am using gives a word for
                                                    word translation from the Sanskrit. The word order takes a little
                                                    getting used to and sometimes the English words that are chosen by the
                                                    author have several definitions and the author sometime uses the more
                                                    obscure definition, so I find I have to use a dictionary some to get
                                                    the real meaning. What I then do is try and relate that word for word
                                                    English translation to my own meditation experience so that I can
                                                    express that translation in a way that is more understandable I hope.
                                                    What I find wonderful about the Gita is here are these words that in
                                                    a condensed kind of way outlines the spiritual experience, like
                                                    lecture notes that a teacher can expand on. Since I meditate myself,
                                                    I feel that I can do the subject some justice, but I sometimes wonder
                                                    if there might be better words than the ones I use.
                                                    --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety .

                                                    > Yo Westwindwood,
                                                    > This and the previous Gita posting are,
                                                    > as usual, very great pointings. I like
                                                    > the term Guidance (with the capital G) as
                                                    > we often see "Grace" used similarly, but
                                                    > with the term Guidance we also get the
                                                    > concept that a definitive understanding
                                                    > takes place that transcends the mind's usual
                                                    > "it could be like this, or it could be
                                                    > like that" tendency. This allows the "Thy
                                                    > will be done" reality to take us over (and
                                                    > inner) and we then automatically let events
                                                    > of our life proceed as they may without
                                                    > any inner chattering that commonly brings
                                                    > us negativity (takes our peace away). And
                                                    > of course, we all are "Yogi's" in spite of
                                                    > whatever masks cover this true identity.
                                                    > So these wise teaching apply to all of us.
                                                    > Thanks again for sharing.
                                                    > Peace and blessings,
                                                    > Bob
                                                    >


                                                  • WestWindWood
                                                    54. Arjuna asks a question about the qualities (steady of disposition, consistent in vision) of a sage, (who has merged with the Creator, the nature of that
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Jun 9, 2008
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      54. Arjuna asks a question about the
                                                      qualities (steady of disposition,
                                                      consistent in vision) of a sage, (who
                                                      has merged with the Creator, the
                                                      nature of that which underlies all
                                                      existence). 

                                                      The sage, merged into the Creator
                                                      beyond the normal conscious state,
                                                      we could say in deep meditation,
                                                      experiences the qualities of the
                                                      Creator.  The sage has, over may
                                                      years of evolution, taken these
                                                      experiences and incorporated in him,
                                                      through proper action and behavior,
                                                      the qualities of the Creator so that
                                                      the sage became Self. 

                                                      This seems like A LOT OF HARD
                                                      WORK! But in reality, it is just a
                                                      giving up of all those qualities of
                                                      personality that are not of the divine
                                                      nature.  It seems an agony at the
                                                      time, but is nothing looking back,
                                                      and why was that I clung to so
                                                      important anyway, but it was.


                                                      55. Sri Bhagavan (Krishna) said:
                                                      All desires of the mind (of ones very
                                                      heart) are cast off, Oh Partha, by
                                                      becoming the Self by working with
                                                      the Self in steady wisdom.

                                                      Contact with the Self in meditation
                                                      brings a steady wisdom, Oh what to
                                                      do about my present situation and
                                                      how am I going to work this out,
                                                      God's will be done, and so it goes
                                                      with an answer coming to me so that
                                                      I become more the Self by practicing
                                                      proper behavior and letting the Self
                                                      emerge in place of the misguided
                                                      personality that I have begun with.



                                                      56. The mind is unshaken in
                                                      adversity, and in pleasure, there is no
                                                      latching onto and wanting to retain. 
                                                      Free from attachment, fear and anger
                                                      is the sage poised in wisdom.

                                                      The wisdom found in meditation
                                                      allows the sage these characteristics. 
                                                      This is just something that happens,
                                                      a symptom, not something that the
                                                      sage tries to grasp and become, it just
                                                      happens because one meditates.


                                                    • aideenmck
                                                      Belated thanks for these posts helping us to understand the Bhagavad Gita, about which I was almost totally ignorant. Recently, I ve been reading Ram Dass s
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Jun 11, 2008
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        Belated thanks for these posts helping us to understand the Bhagavad
                                                        Gita, about which I was almost totally ignorant. Recently, I've been
                                                        reading Ram Dass's "Paths to God: Living the Bhagavad Gita" - it,
                                                        too, is a revelation. Also reading Rumi's poetry, the Coleman Barks
                                                        translation. And meeting Theravadin monks, listening to their dharma
                                                        talks. Sometimes I feel as if I'm perceiving everything for the
                                                        first time. (Where have I been?)
                                                        Aideen

                                                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, WestWindWood
                                                        <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > 54. Arjuna asks a question about the
                                                        > qualities (steady of disposition,
                                                        > consistent in vision) of a sage, (who
                                                        > has merged with the Creator, the
                                                        > nature of that which underlies all
                                                        > existence).
                                                        >
                                                        > The sage, merged into the Creator
                                                        > beyond the normal conscious state,
                                                        > we could say in deep meditation,
                                                        > experiences the qualities of the
                                                        > Creator. The sage has, over may
                                                        > years of evolution, taken these
                                                        > experiences and incorporated in him,
                                                        > through proper action and behavior,
                                                        > the qualities of the Creator so that
                                                        > the sage became Self.
                                                        >
                                                        > This seems like A LOT OF HARD
                                                        > WORK! But in reality, it is just a
                                                        > giving up of all those qualities of
                                                        > personality that are not of the divine
                                                        > nature. It seems an agony at the
                                                        > time, but is nothing looking back,
                                                        > and why was that I clung to so
                                                        > important anyway, but it was.
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > 55. Sri Bhagavan (Krishna) said:
                                                        > All desires of the mind (of ones very
                                                        > heart) are cast off, Oh Partha, by
                                                        > becoming the Self by working with
                                                        > the Self in steady wisdom.
                                                        >
                                                        > Contact with the Self in meditation
                                                        > brings a steady wisdom, Oh what to
                                                        > do about my present situation and
                                                        > how am I going to work this out,
                                                        > God's will be done, and so it goes
                                                        > with an answer coming to me so that
                                                        > I become more the Self by practicing
                                                        > proper behavior and letting the Self
                                                        > emerge in place of the misguided
                                                        > personality that I have begun with.
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > 56. The mind is unshaken in
                                                        > adversity, and in pleasure, there is no
                                                        > latching onto and wanting to retain.
                                                        > Free from attachment, fear and anger
                                                        > is the sage poised in wisdom.
                                                        >
                                                        > The wisdom found in meditation
                                                        > allows the sage these characteristics.
                                                        > This is just something that happens,
                                                        > a symptom, not something that the
                                                        > sage tries to grasp and become, it just
                                                        > happens because one meditates.
                                                        >
                                                      • westwindwood2003
                                                        I do not know Sanskrit and so I know that I am not going to always get a translation correct. If I do make a mistake, I do not feel that I am causing any harm
                                                        Message 27 of 28 , Jun 14, 2008
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          I do not know Sanskrit and so I know
                                                          that I am not going to always get a
                                                          translation correct. If I do make a
                                                          mistake, I do not feel that I am
                                                          causing any harm because I just wind
                                                          up commenting on a different aspect
                                                          of meditation than what the Gita is
                                                          referring to at that point. However,
                                                          if I do get it wrong on a particular
                                                          passage, I would like to hear about it
                                                          if someone knows I am wrong
                                                          because I might miss some facet of
                                                          meditation that I might not touch on
                                                          later that is important.

                                                          57. Life's many experiences evoke
                                                          thoughts and feelings. However,
                                                          rejoicing in the good and hatred of
                                                          the bad is not in the personality of
                                                          the person who dwells, resides, in
                                                          Wisdom.

                                                          Being with that Wisdom, the one on
                                                          the path feels the situation is not
                                                          defined as good or bad, but God's
                                                          will, and so petitions for the
                                                          Knowledge of right behavior to deal
                                                          wisely in the circumstance.

                                                          58. A tortoise withdraws head and
                                                          limbs when disturbed, and a Yogi,
                                                          when confronted with an attractive
                                                          sight or painful scene reflexively
                                                          pulls in to contemplate the situation
                                                          knowing a moment's reflection
                                                          brings Wisdom.

                                                          59. Seeing an object of desire, a
                                                          person remains abstinent upon
                                                          leaving the longing behind. Even a
                                                          hint of the desirable reaction drops
                                                          away from the person who perceives
                                                          the Supreme.
                                                        • westwindwood2003
                                                          60. The wise person strives for perfection; turbulent situations though, the chaos of the day, violently carries away the mind. OK, so don t hesitate to
                                                          Message 28 of 28 , Jun 18, 2008
                                                          • 0 Attachment
                                                            60. The wise person strives for
                                                            perfection; turbulent situations
                                                            though, the chaos of the day,
                                                            violently carries away the mind.

                                                            OK, so don't hesitate to meditate!

                                                            61. The yogi controls the chaos of
                                                            the day, these thoughts restrained
                                                            and joined together. Focus on God
                                                            and the yogi's thoughts are settled.

                                                            The turbulent thoughts of the yogi
                                                            are allowed to surface in meditation,
                                                            and the calming effect of the
                                                            meditation experience affects a
                                                            change in the mind (this just happens
                                                            without any attempt at control). With
                                                            the calming, the focus can them be
                                                            brought to God, who then brings
                                                            wisdom allowing the thoughts to be
                                                            settled.

                                                            62. Objects of the senses, (what
                                                            causes the turbulent thoughts of a
                                                            person) cause strong attachment
                                                            because a person has the propensity
                                                            for that particular object of the
                                                            senses. From this attachment comes
                                                            desire and from desire a kind of
                                                            anger, of that is mine,
                                                            possessiveness.

                                                            Attachment caused by their own
                                                            personality, or perhaps we could say
                                                            from their previous karma gives
                                                            material to work on in meditation.

                                                            63. From anger comes delusion and
                                                            from this delusion comes a forgetting
                                                            of facts (memory of what really
                                                            happened or how things are), and
                                                            this loss of reason with impetuous
                                                            behavior, results in death.

                                                            Why am I thinking of a motorcycle
                                                            going 110 mph on a windy country
                                                            road? Actually, this could be most
                                                            anything and usually results in a visit
                                                            from a police officer, or at best
                                                            recognition of out of control feelings
                                                            that need to be worked on in
                                                            meditation.
                                                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.