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Re: What is Your Meditation Like

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  • J
    ... Dear friends...... It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can be ... I think there is a lot to that statement. I do not think there
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 1, 2008
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
      <no_reply@...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
      > <westwindwood2003@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Here is mine:
      > >
      > > I was thinking about how natural it is to meditate. In a beautiful
      > > rural setting, my eyes gaze upon the wonderful surroundings and it is
      > > just myself taking it in and not analyzing it. Some gardens are
      > > specifically laid out for meditation, a garden at a Zen temple for
      > > instance. The intellectual mind just stops and I am left with my
      > > feelings coming to the fore of my consciousness. At another time I
      > > will be doing a simple task like washing dishes and again my feelings
      > > and emotional propensities come into view. Before I became wise to
      > > the ways of meditation, I would shut off these feelings flowing into
      > > my awareness because invariably it would seem that the subject matter
      > > would have a turmoil to it that would be uncomfortable,
      > > disconcerting, needing a way out of what came to the forefront.
      > >
      > > I prefer these natural ways of meditating because with a mantra,
      > > breath watching, a candle flame, a rosary, the meditative state is
      > > occupied much of the time with the method of getting into meditation,
      > > and there is less room for the unconscious desires that are mucking
      > > up my life to come forth for resolution. There are other altered
      > > states for comparison. In a state of sexual passion, the
      > > intellectual mind shuts down and a lot of feelings come forth and at
      > > a peak even feelings seem to shut down, but what happens is much more
      > > intense that meditation, and maybe a baby is created into a loving
      > > home. There are drugs that bring forth visions, such as LSD,
      > > opiates, or alcohol addiction hallucinations (well, I never
      > > experienced that), but there is no single subject that flows forth
      > > into awareness and evolves towards recognition with drug-induced
      > > visions. Sleep brings dreams, and this is much more intense than
      > > meditation, and if the subject matter of a dream is deliberately
      > > remembered while meditating, the feeling brought forth is much more
      > > intense that what is normally experienced in meditation.
      > >
      > > It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can be
      > > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue or
      > > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single clear
      > > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
      > > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above mentioned
      > > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of ones own
      > > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity while
      > > meditating for 45 minutes. If a person follows what that wisdom
      > > tells them to do, the person eventually evolves towards what
      > > enlightenment wisdom is and after lifetimes merges into it.
      > >
      > Yo Westwind,
      > I resonate with much of what you are sharing
      > and recognize some things that we differ about,
      > such as the statements about dreams being "much
      > more intense than meditation". But I think we
      > may just have different things in mind when we
      > use the terms we do that are meant to describe
      > various states of consciousness. For instance,
      > to answer 'What Meditation Is Like For Me', I feel
      > that before meditation became an ongoing part of
      > my life, I was in a dream-like state even when I
      > was "awake". And nothing in that level of consciousness
      > was really clear or "Real", much like a fetus cannot
      > be said to be appreciating the full experience of
      > life as a human. And with meditation, just as the new-born
      > child can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel in
      > a way that never was known before, the adult in
      > us can relate to Reality in ways never before possible.
      > In any event, I enjoy what you share and it points
      > to beneficial concepts that are well worth
      > meditating upon.
      > Peace and blessings,
      > Bob




      Dear friends......

      <i>It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can be
      > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue or
      > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single clear
      > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
      > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above mentioned
      > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of ones own
      > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity while
      > meditating for 45 minutes.</i>


      I think there is a lot to that statement. I do not think there is any
      forcing any "jhana" or euphoric state associated with meditation.

      Lately I would say my meditation has plateaued. I think there are
      greater things going on to be discovered when they are to be
      discovered. I think some of the best things are discovered on one's
      own, with only an attitude of fearlessness, going forth in "the
      journey". Meditation can be truly scary, when you enter states,
      without an awareness of self, being or "ego". The herb <i> Salvia
      Divinorum</i> is used in religious ceremonies by various cultures, and
      produces a state where there is no "ego" and the spirit seems to
      function "out of body" and mind. I've had some experience with this
      "ethnogen" and the "egolessness" experienced may have assisted me in
      attaining certain meditative states, but I think the primary element
      responsible was simpling meditating at least twice daily, in a variety
      of settings.

      I started TM and yoga after I'd been jumped by three convicts on the
      run. They assaulted me and knocked me unconscious on Halloween night.

      Oddly the Halloween night two years before that, I had a vivid
      nightmare about being attacked, pursued by three individuals
      oddly like those assaulters. This was about the time I started
      getting into dream journaling and became conscious in my dreams that I
      was "dreaming" and could control those dreams, also known as "lucid
      dreaming".

      During one "lucid" moment, in a dream, when I was actually able to
      stay asleep while being in full awareness of my dreamstate, I put a
      hand forth, into the face of an old man walking across a rope bridge
      towards me in some huge primeval bottomless gorge. Following my hand,
      I tumbled forth, into this "old man" through space and mists and times
      and ended up in what felt like some ancient civilization, sitting in a
      meditation pose with a "teacher" sitting in front of me.

      If meditation has taught me one thing, it is that "reality" is a
      highly dynamic quantity and like anything "in time", it is continually
      changing, reflecting, creating and destroying life, like there is no
      creating and destroying, only life in spirit and spirit in life,
      constantly morphing, flowing, creating and recreating.

      I have had some truly profound and "psychic" experiences as the result
      of the "dream waking" state. The level I have reached, while just
      "resting" a few times, not "trying" to reach any state. That's a whole
      nother story though ! 8)

      I have had some profoundly pleasurable and frightening experiences in
      meditation this year. Really this year is the only time I have
      dedicated myself to twice daily meditation and I think other
      experiences in life have led me to some really deep substantive
      mediations. I have seen some incredible vistas. collages of shapes,
      forms, colors. Faces of people like they are standing right in front
      of me. I do not know who any of these people I have seen are. I have
      known all kinds of physical sensations while meditating, some painful.
      I've gone through what I could only consider to be "healing".

      In these scant two months I have been meditating daily I have noticed
      a greater feeling of power over my body or perhaps unity IN my body. I
      have been able to reduce and in some cases totally cease chronic pain
      I think a lot of this comes from yogic exercises in relaxing various
      parts of my body. My thinking has changed. There is not so much "mind
      chatter" going on before I do somethings. It's like I "intuitively" do
      things or think of answers to problems without "thinking". I've only
      tasted these benefits and I'm hungry for more. You know how it is with
      this though, you can't "hunger" for it. You just have to let it be.
      Which of course is much easier than it sounds, or is it ? 8)

      I wrote the following after, what I would call, my first experience in
      this deeper, more fulfilling meditation as "journey":


      <i>January 8, 2008

      Today, midway on my walk , I sat on the picnic bench in the park
      to meditate. I entered a warm and lucid state, like the soft
      core in a total and engulfing sphere. With my eyes shut, all
      the sounds surrounding, changing, interweaving, with tens of
      thousands of voices coming from the torrents and trickling
      of the creek forty feet in front of me. They changed and
      morphed into one another, always in harmony, always imperfect
      yet pure, as we too could be. When I gently awoke, there was a
      beautiful woman, like some sweet revelation,
      walking by on the otherside.

      After some alternate breathing exercises, I struck out,
      fresh and renewed, on the trail I often take. An old
      rotted oak had fallen by the trails head, and I thought,
      "This is how all living things must die, from the inside out
      not from the outside in." Then I thought how all living
      things are spherical in nature, trillions upon trillions
      of spheres, of every form and size, vibrating together,
      making one huge sphere, The Earth. Then on and on,
      planets, solar systems, and galaxies, on into infinity,
      never point A to B, rather round and round and round.

      On my way out of the woods, I slipped on a muddy bank.
      I grasped the branch of an oak sapling, wiping off the
      mud on my hands on it's dead leaves. I thought,
      "This is how I must touch all things, with ease, gently."</i>


      peace
    • jogeshwarmahanta
      It depends. Whether meditation is like DWCL(Daily Wager Casual Labourer)OR like DWCL(Daily Wager Continuous Labourer). regards ...
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 1, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        It depends. Whether meditation is like DWCL(Daily Wager Casual
        Labourer)OR like DWCL(Daily Wager Continuous Labourer).
        regards



        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "J"
        <thebluze@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
        > <no_reply@> wrote:
        > >
        > > --- In
        meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
        > > <westwindwood2003@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Here is mine:
        > > >
        > > > I was thinking about how natural it is to meditate. In a
        beautiful
        > > > rural setting, my eyes gaze upon the wonderful surroundings
        and it is
        > > > just myself taking it in and not analyzing it. Some gardens
        are
        > > > specifically laid out for meditation, a garden at a Zen temple
        for
        > > > instance. The intellectual mind just stops and I am left with
        my
        > > > feelings coming to the fore of my consciousness. At another
        time I
        > > > will be doing a simple task like washing dishes and again my
        feelings
        > > > and emotional propensities come into view. Before I became
        wise to
        > > > the ways of meditation, I would shut off these feelings
        flowing into
        > > > my awareness because invariably it would seem that the subject
        matter
        > > > would have a turmoil to it that would be uncomfortable,
        > > > disconcerting, needing a way out of what came to the
        forefront.
        > > >
        > > > I prefer these natural ways of meditating because with a
        mantra,
        > > > breath watching, a candle flame, a rosary, the meditative
        state is
        > > > occupied much of the time with the method of getting into
        meditation,
        > > > and there is less room for the unconscious desires that are
        mucking
        > > > up my life to come forth for resolution. There are other
        altered
        > > > states for comparison. In a state of sexual passion, the
        > > > intellectual mind shuts down and a lot of feelings come forth
        and at
        > > > a peak even feelings seem to shut down, but what happens is
        much more
        > > > intense that meditation, and maybe a baby is created into a
        loving
        > > > home. There are drugs that bring forth visions, such as LSD,
        > > > opiates, or alcohol addiction hallucinations (well, I never
        > > > experienced that), but there is no single subject that flows
        forth
        > > > into awareness and evolves towards recognition with drug-
        induced
        > > > visions. Sleep brings dreams, and this is much more intense
        than
        > > > meditation, and if the subject matter of a dream is
        deliberately
        > > > remembered while meditating, the feeling brought forth is much
        more
        > > > intense that what is normally experienced in meditation.
        > > >
        > > > It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can
        be
        > > > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue
        or
        > > > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single
        clear
        > > > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
        > > > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above
        mentioned
        > > > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of
        ones own
        > > > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity
        while
        > > > meditating for 45 minutes. If a person follows what that
        wisdom
        > > > tells them to do, the person eventually evolves towards what
        > > > enlightenment wisdom is and after lifetimes merges into it.
        > > >
        > > Yo Westwind,
        > > I resonate with much of what you are sharing
        > > and recognize some things that we differ about,
        > > such as the statements about dreams being "much
        > > more intense than meditation". But I think we
        > > may just have different things in mind when we
        > > use the terms we do that are meant to describe
        > > various states of consciousness. For instance,
        > > to answer 'What Meditation Is Like For Me', I feel
        > > that before meditation became an ongoing part of
        > > my life, I was in a dream-like state even when I
        > > was "awake". And nothing in that level of consciousness
        > > was really clear or "Real", much like a fetus cannot
        > > be said to be appreciating the full experience of
        > > life as a human. And with meditation, just as the new-born
        > > child can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel in
        > > a way that never was known before, the adult in
        > > us can relate to Reality in ways never before possible.
        > > In any event, I enjoy what you share and it points
        > > to beneficial concepts that are well worth
        > > meditating upon.
        > > Peace and blessings,
        > > Bob
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Dear friends......
        >
        > <i>It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can be
        > > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue or
        > > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single clear
        > > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
        > > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above
        mentioned
        > > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of ones
        own
        > > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity while
        > > meditating for 45 minutes.</i>
        >
        >
        > I think there is a lot to that statement. I do not think there is
        any
        > forcing any "jhana" or euphoric state associated with meditation.
        >
        > Lately I would say my meditation has plateaued. I think there are
        > greater things going on to be discovered when they are to be
        > discovered. I think some of the best things are discovered on
        one's
        > own, with only an attitude of fearlessness, going forth in "the
        > journey". Meditation can be truly scary, when you enter states,
        > without an awareness of self, being or "ego". The herb <i> Salvia
        > Divinorum</i> is used in religious ceremonies by various cultures,
        and
        > produces a state where there is no "ego" and the spirit seems to
        > function "out of body" and mind. I've had some experience with
        this
        > "ethnogen" and the "egolessness" experienced may have assisted me
        in
        > attaining certain meditative states, but I think the primary
        element
        > responsible was simpling meditating at least twice daily, in a
        variety
        > of settings.
        >
        > I started TM and yoga after I'd been jumped by three convicts on
        the
        > run. They assaulted me and knocked me unconscious on Halloween
        night.
        >
        > Oddly the Halloween night two years before that, I had a vivid
        > nightmare about being attacked, pursued by three individuals
        > oddly like those assaulters. This was about the time I started
        > getting into dream journaling and became conscious in my dreams
        that I
        > was "dreaming" and could control those dreams, also known as "lucid
        > dreaming".
        >
        > During one "lucid" moment, in a dream, when I was actually able to
        > stay asleep while being in full awareness of my dreamstate, I put a
        > hand forth, into the face of an old man walking across a rope
        bridge
        > towards me in some huge primeval bottomless gorge. Following my
        hand,
        > I tumbled forth, into this "old man" through space and mists and
        times
        > and ended up in what felt like some ancient civilization, sitting
        in a
        > meditation pose with a "teacher" sitting in front of me.
        >
        > If meditation has taught me one thing, it is that "reality" is a
        > highly dynamic quantity and like anything "in time", it is
        continually
        > changing, reflecting, creating and destroying life, like there is
        no
        > creating and destroying, only life in spirit and spirit in life,
        > constantly morphing, flowing, creating and recreating.
        >
        > I have had some truly profound and "psychic" experiences as the
        result
        > of the "dream waking" state. The level I have reached, while just
        > "resting" a few times, not "trying" to reach any state. That's a
        whole
        > nother story though ! 8)
        >
        > I have had some profoundly pleasurable and frightening experiences
        in
        > meditation this year. Really this year is the only time I have
        > dedicated myself to twice daily meditation and I think other
        > experiences in life have led me to some really deep substantive
        > mediations. I have seen some incredible vistas. collages of shapes,
        > forms, colors. Faces of people like they are standing right in
        front
        > of me. I do not know who any of these people I have seen are. I
        have
        > known all kinds of physical sensations while meditating, some
        painful.
        > I've gone through what I could only consider to be "healing".
        >
        > In these scant two months I have been meditating daily I have
        noticed
        > a greater feeling of power over my body or perhaps unity IN my
        body. I
        > have been able to reduce and in some cases totally cease chronic
        pain
        > I think a lot of this comes from yogic exercises in relaxing
        various
        > parts of my body. My thinking has changed. There is not so
        much "mind
        > chatter" going on before I do somethings. It's like
        I "intuitively" do
        > things or think of answers to problems without "thinking". I've
        only
        > tasted these benefits and I'm hungry for more. You know how it is
        with
        > this though, you can't "hunger" for it. You just have to let it be.
        > Which of course is much easier than it sounds, or is it ? 8)
        >
        > I wrote the following after, what I would call, my first
        experience in
        > this deeper, more fulfilling meditation as "journey":
        >
        >
        > <i>January 8, 2008
        >
        > Today, midway on my walk , I sat on the picnic bench in the park
        > to meditate. I entered a warm and lucid state, like the soft
        > core in a total and engulfing sphere. With my eyes shut, all
        > the sounds surrounding, changing, interweaving, with tens of
        > thousands of voices coming from the torrents and trickling
        > of the creek forty feet in front of me. They changed and
        > morphed into one another, always in harmony, always imperfect
        > yet pure, as we too could be. When I gently awoke, there was a
        > beautiful woman, like some sweet revelation,
        > walking by on the otherside.
        >
        > After some alternate breathing exercises, I struck out,
        > fresh and renewed, on the trail I often take. An old
        > rotted oak had fallen by the trails head, and I thought,
        > "This is how all living things must die, from the inside out
        > not from the outside in." Then I thought how all living
        > things are spherical in nature, trillions upon trillions
        > of spheres, of every form and size, vibrating together,
        > making one huge sphere, The Earth. Then on and on,
        > planets, solar systems, and galaxies, on into infinity,
        > never point A to B, rather round and round and round.
        >
        > On my way out of the woods, I slipped on a muddy bank.
        > I grasped the branch of an oak sapling, wiping off the
        > mud on my hands on it's dead leaves. I thought,
        > "This is how I must touch all things, with ease, gently."</i>
        >
        >
        > peace
        >
      • J
        so you must tell us what these exercises are ! simulated dreams/translogical exercises sounds very interesting ! please do go on ! I should add, I had a
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 1, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          so you must tell us what these exercises are !

          "simulated dreams/translogical exercises"


          sounds very interesting ! please do go on !

          I should add, I had a profound experience in meditation today.

          I decided to do some mid morning and wound up awakening two to three
          hours later. I fell into some trance dream, very intense, colorful,
          joyful. when I came out of it I was filled with pleasure and joy, it
          did not feel like I had been asleep, like a further journey perhaps,
          but I was most renewed and rested. I have no conscious memory of WHAT
          happened, just the feeling of peace and joy,
          it was so profound, and with me the whole day.

          namaste
          J



          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
          <jogeshwarmahanta@...> wrote:
          >
          > Just I came out from the class at 11.20am imparting 2 practical
          > exercises on simulated dreams/translogical exercises with a view to
          > (1)stimulate brain cells to keep them healthy(2)prevent bad dreams
          > and so on.Participants of every hue enjoy the experience.
          > regards
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
          > <no_reply@> wrote:
          > >
          > > --- In
          > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
          > > <westwindwood2003@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Here is mine:
          > > >
          > > > I was thinking about how natural it is to meditate. In a
          > beautiful
          > > > rural setting, my eyes gaze upon the wonderful surroundings and
          > it is
          > > > just myself taking it in and not analyzing it. Some gardens are
          > > > specifically laid out for meditation, a garden at a Zen temple
          > for
          > > > instance. The intellectual mind just stops and I am left with
          > my
          > > > feelings coming to the fore of my consciousness. At another
          > time I
          > > > will be doing a simple task like washing dishes and again my
          > feelings
          > > > and emotional propensities come into view. Before I became wise
          > to
          > > > the ways of meditation, I would shut off these feelings flowing
          > into
          > > > my awareness because invariably it would seem that the subject
          > matter
          > > > would have a turmoil to it that would be uncomfortable,
          > > > disconcerting, needing a way out of what came to the forefront.
          > > >
          > > > I prefer these natural ways of meditating because with a mantra,
          > > > breath watching, a candle flame, a rosary, the meditative state
          > is
          > > > occupied much of the time with the method of getting into
          > meditation,
          > > > and there is less room for the unconscious desires that are
          > mucking
          > > > up my life to come forth for resolution. There are other
          > altered
          > > > states for comparison. In a state of sexual passion, the
          > > > intellectual mind shuts down and a lot of feelings come forth
          > and at
          > > > a peak even feelings seem to shut down, but what happens is much
          > more
          > > > intense that meditation, and maybe a baby is created into a
          > loving
          > > > home. There are drugs that bring forth visions, such as LSD,
          > > > opiates, or alcohol addiction hallucinations (well, I never
          > > > experienced that), but there is no single subject that flows
          > forth
          > > > into awareness and evolves towards recognition with drug-induced
          > > > visions. Sleep brings dreams, and this is much more intense than
          > > > meditation, and if the subject matter of a dream is deliberately
          > > > remembered while meditating, the feeling brought forth is much
          > more
          > > > intense that what is normally experienced in meditation.
          > > >
          > > > It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can be
          > > > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue
          > or
          > > > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single clear
          > > > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
          > > > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above
          > mentioned
          > > > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of ones
          > own
          > > > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity
          > while
          > > > meditating for 45 minutes. If a person follows what that wisdom
          > > > tells them to do, the person eventually evolves towards what
          > > > enlightenment wisdom is and after lifetimes merges into it.
          > > >
          > > Yo Westwind,
          > > I resonate with much of what you are sharing
          > > and recognize some things that we differ about,
          > > such as the statements about dreams being "much
          > > more intense than meditation". But I think we
          > > may just have different things in mind when we
          > > use the terms we do that are meant to describe
          > > various states of consciousness. For instance,
          > > to answer 'What Meditation Is Like For Me', I feel
          > > that before meditation became an ongoing part of
          > > my life, I was in a dream-like state even when I
          > > was "awake". And nothing in that level of consciousness
          > > was really clear or "Real", much like a fetus cannot
          > > be said to be appreciating the full experience of
          > > life as a human. And with meditation, just as the new-born
          > > child can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel in
          > > a way that never was known before, the adult in
          > > us can relate to Reality in ways never before possible.
          > > In any event, I enjoy what you share and it points
          > > to beneficial concepts that are well worth
          > > meditating upon.
          > > Peace and blessings,
          > > Bob
          > >
          >
        • jogeshwarmahanta
          Thanks. May be as your experience shows you do not need. However, I will post it. regards ... three ... colorful, ... it ... perhaps, ... WHAT ...
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 2, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Thanks. May be as your experience shows you do not need. However, I
            will post it.
            regards

            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "J"
            <thebluze@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > so you must tell us what these exercises are !
            >
            > "simulated dreams/translogical exercises"
            >
            >
            > sounds very interesting ! please do go on !
            >
            > I should add, I had a profound experience in meditation today.
            >
            > I decided to do some mid morning and wound up awakening two to
            three
            > hours later. I fell into some trance dream, very intense,
            colorful,
            > joyful. when I came out of it I was filled with pleasure and joy,
            it
            > did not feel like I had been asleep, like a further journey
            perhaps,
            > but I was most renewed and rested. I have no conscious memory of
            WHAT
            > happened, just the feeling of peace and joy,
            > it was so profound, and with me the whole day.
            >
            > namaste
            > J
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In
            meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
            > <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Just I came out from the class at 11.20am imparting 2 practical
            > > exercises on simulated dreams/translogical exercises with a view
            to
            > > (1)stimulate brain cells to keep them healthy(2)prevent bad
            dreams
            > > and so on.Participants of every hue enjoy the experience.
            > > regards
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
            medit8ionsociety
            > > <no_reply@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > --- In
            > > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
            > > > <westwindwood2003@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Here is mine:
            > > > >
            > > > > I was thinking about how natural it is to meditate. In a
            > > beautiful
            > > > > rural setting, my eyes gaze upon the wonderful surroundings
            and
            > > it is
            > > > > just myself taking it in and not analyzing it. Some gardens
            are
            > > > > specifically laid out for meditation, a garden at a Zen
            temple
            > > for
            > > > > instance. The intellectual mind just stops and I am left
            with
            > > my
            > > > > feelings coming to the fore of my consciousness. At another
            > > time I
            > > > > will be doing a simple task like washing dishes and again my
            > > feelings
            > > > > and emotional propensities come into view. Before I became
            wise
            > > to
            > > > > the ways of meditation, I would shut off these feelings
            flowing
            > > into
            > > > > my awareness because invariably it would seem that the
            subject
            > > matter
            > > > > would have a turmoil to it that would be uncomfortable,
            > > > > disconcerting, needing a way out of what came to the
            forefront.
            > > > >
            > > > > I prefer these natural ways of meditating because with a
            mantra,
            > > > > breath watching, a candle flame, a rosary, the meditative
            state
            > > is
            > > > > occupied much of the time with the method of getting into
            > > meditation,
            > > > > and there is less room for the unconscious desires that are
            > > mucking
            > > > > up my life to come forth for resolution. There are other
            > > altered
            > > > > states for comparison. In a state of sexual passion, the
            > > > > intellectual mind shuts down and a lot of feelings come
            forth
            > > and at
            > > > > a peak even feelings seem to shut down, but what happens is
            much
            > > more
            > > > > intense that meditation, and maybe a baby is created into a
            > > loving
            > > > > home. There are drugs that bring forth visions, such as
            LSD,
            > > > > opiates, or alcohol addiction hallucinations (well, I never
            > > > > experienced that), but there is no single subject that flows
            > > forth
            > > > > into awareness and evolves towards recognition with drug-
            induced
            > > > > visions. Sleep brings dreams, and this is much more intense
            than
            > > > > meditation, and if the subject matter of a dream is
            deliberately
            > > > > remembered while meditating, the feeling brought forth is
            much
            > > more
            > > > > intense that what is normally experienced in meditation.
            > > > >
            > > > > It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as
            can be
            > > > > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the
            issue
            > > or
            > > > > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single
            clear
            > > > > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first
            is
            > > > > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above
            > > mentioned
            > > > > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of
            ones
            > > own
            > > > > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity
            > > while
            > > > > meditating for 45 minutes. If a person follows what that
            wisdom
            > > > > tells them to do, the person eventually evolves towards what
            > > > > enlightenment wisdom is and after lifetimes merges into it.
            > > > >
            > > > Yo Westwind,
            > > > I resonate with much of what you are sharing
            > > > and recognize some things that we differ about,
            > > > such as the statements about dreams being "much
            > > > more intense than meditation". But I think we
            > > > may just have different things in mind when we
            > > > use the terms we do that are meant to describe
            > > > various states of consciousness. For instance,
            > > > to answer 'What Meditation Is Like For Me', I feel
            > > > that before meditation became an ongoing part of
            > > > my life, I was in a dream-like state even when I
            > > > was "awake". And nothing in that level of consciousness
            > > > was really clear or "Real", much like a fetus cannot
            > > > be said to be appreciating the full experience of
            > > > life as a human. And with meditation, just as the new-born
            > > > child can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel in
            > > > a way that never was known before, the adult in
            > > > us can relate to Reality in ways never before possible.
            > > > In any event, I enjoy what you share and it points
            > > > to beneficial concepts that are well worth
            > > > meditating upon.
            > > > Peace and blessings,
            > > > Bob
            > > >
            > >
            >
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