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RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Mullah Nasrudin Tells It Like It Is

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  • Balasubramanian Radhakrishnan Kumar
    Surrender and live in NOW . Come away from this pain body. To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.comFrom: jogeshwarmahanta@yahoo.comDate: Thu, 28 Feb
    Message 1 of 23 , Feb 27, 2008
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      Surrender and live in "NOW". Come away from this pain body.


      To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
      From: jogeshwarmahanta@...
      Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 02:19:26 +0000
      Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Mullah Nasrudin Tells It Like It Is

      Oh sean dear! Do not die even in dream. Reverse ageing.
      regards

      --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, sean tremblay
      <bethjams9@. ..> wrote:
      >
      > Just to chime in here, It seems every day is a death or a dying.
      Every day something gives in or lets go. Change and transformation
      are inevitable. I had a dream last week that I died it was very
      real and there was nothing on the other side I just slowly went
      blank. In my dream before that happened I told my wife "Its OK now
      I stopped fighting" She laid me on the couch to be with me as I let
      go. At one point I started laughing and I said "Who's gonna wear my
      cloths?" which I thought was funny because they wouldn't fit anybody
      else.
      > Sean
      >
      > medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:
      > "jogeshwarmahanta" <jogeshwarmahanta@ > wrote:
      > >
      > > Is so called 'natural' death inevitable? I think, "NO"
      > > regards
      > >
      > Yo Sri Jogeshwarmahanta,
      > Just about the most inevitable thing we have in our
      > life is the surety of its ending. Death is also a
      > natural thing as well as the thing that few people
      > appreciate will actually happen to them. It often
      > seems to me that it is as if people think
      > there will always be a tomorrow and that there is
      > all the time in the world to stop suffering
      > causing actions and to replace them with
      > selfless righteous activity. I think that when we
      > have recognized our mortality a door opens that
      > lets compassion and humility come rushing in.
      > I hope you will share more of what your "NO"
      > means relative to death's 'natural' and inevitable nature.
      > Peace and blessings.
      > Bob
      >
      > > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com,
      medit8ionsociety
      > > <no_reply@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > A student asked Nasrudin:
      > > > "What is the secret of your serenity?"
      > > > The Mullah answered:
      > > > "Wholehearted cooperation with the inevitable."
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------ --------- --------- ---
      > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
      >




      It's about getting married. Click here! Try it!
    • sean tremblay
      I think that was exactly what the dream was about, Surrender, stop fighting Balasubramanian Radhakrishnan Kumar wrote:
      Message 2 of 23 , Feb 28, 2008
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        I think that was exactly what the dream was about, Surrender, stop fighting

        Balasubramanian Radhakrishnan Kumar <kumarbr20@...> wrote:
        Surrender and live in "NOW". Come away from this pain body.


        To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
        From: jogeshwarmahanta@ yahoo.com
        Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 02:19:26 +0000
        Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Mullah Nasrudin Tells It Like It Is

        Oh sean dear! Do not die even in dream. Reverse ageing.
        regards

        --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, sean tremblay
        <bethjams9@. ..> wrote:
        >
        > Just to chime in here, It seems every day is a death or a dying.
        Every day something gives in or lets go. Change and transformation
        are inevitable. I had a dream last week that I died it was very
        real and there was nothing on the other side I just slowly went
        blank. In my dream before that happened I told my wife "Its OK now
        I stopped fighting" She laid me on the couch to be with me as I let
        go. At one point I started laughing and I said "Who's gonna wear my
        cloths?" which I thought was funny because they wouldn't fit anybody
        else.
        > Sean
        >
        > medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:
        > "jogeshwarmahanta" <jogeshwarmahanta@ > wrote:
        > >
        > > Is so called 'natural' death inevitable? I think, "NO"
        > > regards
        > >
        > Yo Sri Jogeshwarmahanta,
        > Just about the most inevitable thing we have in our
        > life is the surety of its ending. Death is also a
        > natural thing as well as the thing that few people
        > appreciate will actually happen to them. It often
        > seems to me that it is as if people think
        > there will always be a tomorrow and that there is
        > all the time in the world to stop suffering
        > causing actions and to replace them with
        > selfless righteous activity. I think that when we
        > have recognized our mortality a door opens that
        > lets compassion and humility come rushing in.
        > I hope you will share more of what your "NO"
        > means relative to death's 'natural' and inevitable nature.
        > Peace and blessings.
        > Bob
        >
        > > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com,
        medit8ionsociety
        > > <no_reply@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > A student asked Nasrudin:
        > > > "What is the secret of your serenity?"
        > > > The Mullah answered:
        > > > "Wholehearted cooperation with the inevitable."
        > > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------ --------- --------- ---
        > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
        >




        It's about getting married. Click here! Try it!


        Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

      • westwindwood2003
        My fate is based on my past karma, my past actions, and that has to frame my ongoing experience to live. You could say I do not know God s plan and just go
        Message 3 of 23 , Feb 28, 2008
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          My fate is based on my past karma, my past actions, and that has to
          frame my ongoing experience to live. You could say I do not know
          God's plan and just go with fate, but I do have free will in this
          enfolding life to go with God's suggestions about how I should work
          out karma. In the past I did certain things and that has made me
          what I am, my personality. The situation I am in moment to moment
          comes into awareness with meditation. I can discern what that is and
          get answers on how to proceed if I am enlightened. What I mean by
          enlightened is that at one point in my existence on earth, I had an
          experience of meeting God. If I desire, I can have that experience
          again and again while meditating and get God's wisdom to do the
          actions that I should in order to work out my karma. Actual answers
          come to me that are consistent, hurt no one, are not of my
          personality because I would rather do as my ego wants, and I just
          have to do it to make things better, change my karma. In looking
          back on what led to enlightenment, I believe I was just ready to pick
          up that working on my karma. I almost didn't do follow that path
          that enlightenment facilitates, somehow God recognized that I could
          do the work because I had reached a situation where I knew I needed
          help with an unsatisfactory life of mine. I do not think
          enlightenment would have happened unless I was at the point of giving
          my life over to that direction found in enlightenment.

          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Gregory Hoffman
          <magicalmanhattan@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dear John,
          >
          > What I notice, is that God's intentions are too mysterious for
          the mind to comprehend. God is doing an infinite number of things at
          once, and he knows exactly why he is doing each one. A speck of dust
          does not fall off of a table, without God planning it. I think that
          is why Indian Gods have so many arms and legs; in order to convey
          God's incredible consioucness, which is able to do so many things at
          once, with perfect planning.
          >
          > The individual personality, my own included, takes everything
          that God does, and complains about it.
          >
          > But, God is always acting in our interest, even if it seems
          terrible.
          >
          > The best thing is to follow the rules, the "Torah," if you will,
          that is written in every man's heart.
          >
          > Every man knows when he is doing the right thing. It does not
          matter what other people do. It only matters what you do.
          >
          > And as men, our needs must always come last, or be put in the
          perscpective of being met to the degree that we are best able to
          serve God.
          >
          > If these rules are followed, God will always give you exactly
          what you need to grow, and become closer to him. It may not be what
          you want, in order to make "yourself," happy, but it will be what you
          need.
          >
          > That is what I notice.
          >
          > What do you think.
          > Your Friend,
          > Greg
          >
          > John Balch <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
          > Anyone who takes up meditation and works at it will
          eventually find out God's intention.
          >
          > jogeshwarmahanta <jogeshwarmahanta@...> wrote: "You just
          > do what God wants with wholehearted cooperation."
          >
          > Who does know the intention of God?
          > regards
          >
          > --- In
          > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
          > <westwindwood2003@> wrote:
          > >
          > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
          > medit8ionsociety
          > > <no_reply@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > A student asked Nasrudin:
          > > > "What is the secret of your serenity?"
          > > > The Mullah answered:
          > > > "Wholehearted cooperation with the inevitable."
          > > >
          > > If you are a meditator, the inevitable unfolds in your life. You
          > just
          > > do what God wants with wholehearted cooperation.
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
          >
        • jogeshwarmahanta
          Very beautiful account. regards ... meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, westwindwood2003 ... to ... work ... and ... an ... experience ... answers
          Message 4 of 23 , Feb 28, 2008
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            Very beautiful account.
            regards


            --- In
            meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
            <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
            >
            > My fate is based on my past karma, my past actions, and that has
            to
            > frame my ongoing experience to live. You could say I do not know
            > God's plan and just go with fate, but I do have free will in this
            > enfolding life to go with God's suggestions about how I should
            work
            > out karma. In the past I did certain things and that has made me
            > what I am, my personality. The situation I am in moment to moment
            > comes into awareness with meditation. I can discern what that is
            and
            > get answers on how to proceed if I am enlightened. What I mean by
            > enlightened is that at one point in my existence on earth, I had
            an
            > experience of meeting God. If I desire, I can have that
            experience
            > again and again while meditating and get God's wisdom to do the
            > actions that I should in order to work out my karma. Actual
            answers
            > come to me that are consistent, hurt no one, are not of my
            > personality because I would rather do as my ego wants, and I just
            > have to do it to make things better, change my karma. In looking
            > back on what led to enlightenment, I believe I was just ready to
            pick
            > up that working on my karma. I almost didn't do follow that path
            > that enlightenment facilitates, somehow God recognized that I
            could
            > do the work because I had reached a situation where I knew I
            needed
            > help with an unsatisfactory life of mine. I do not think
            > enlightenment would have happened unless I was at the point of
            giving
            > my life over to that direction found in enlightenment.
            >
            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Gregory Hoffman
            > <magicalmanhattan@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Dear John,
            > >
            > > What I notice, is that God's intentions are too mysterious for
            > the mind to comprehend. God is doing an infinite number of things
            at
            > once, and he knows exactly why he is doing each one. A speck of
            dust
            > does not fall off of a table, without God planning it. I think
            that
            > is why Indian Gods have so many arms and legs; in order to convey
            > God's incredible consioucness, which is able to do so many things
            at
            > once, with perfect planning.
            > >
            > > The individual personality, my own included, takes everything
            > that God does, and complains about it.
            > >
            > > But, God is always acting in our interest, even if it seems
            > terrible.
            > >
            > > The best thing is to follow the rules, the "Torah," if you
            will,
            > that is written in every man's heart.
            > >
            > > Every man knows when he is doing the right thing. It does not
            > matter what other people do. It only matters what you do.
            > >
            > > And as men, our needs must always come last, or be put in the
            > perscpective of being met to the degree that we are best able to
            > serve God.
            > >
            > > If these rules are followed, God will always give you exactly
            > what you need to grow, and become closer to him. It may not be
            what
            > you want, in order to make "yourself," happy, but it will be what
            you
            > need.
            > >
            > > That is what I notice.
            > >
            > > What do you think.
            > > Your Friend,
            > > Greg
            > >
            > > John Balch <westwindwood2003@> wrote:
            > > Anyone who takes up meditation and works at it will
            > eventually find out God's intention.
            > >
            > > jogeshwarmahanta <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote: "You just
            > > do what God wants with wholehearted cooperation."
            > >
            > > Who does know the intention of God?
            > > regards
            > >
            > > --- In
            > > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
            > > <westwindwood2003@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
            > > medit8ionsociety
            > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > A student asked Nasrudin:
            > > > > "What is the secret of your serenity?"
            > > > > The Mullah answered:
            > > > > "Wholehearted cooperation with the inevitable."
            > > > >
            > > > If you are a meditator, the inevitable unfolds in your life.
            You
            > > just
            > > > do what God wants with wholehearted cooperation.
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ---------------------------------
            > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
            > >
            >
          • westwindwood2003
            Here are all the problems I can think of at the moment in taking up meditation. I list these, not because I wish to discourage meditation, but to allow to can
            Message 5 of 23 , Mar 1 9:46 AM
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              Here are all the problems I can think of at the moment in taking up
              meditation. I list these, not because I wish to discourage
              meditation, but to allow to can plan ahead. If one works out the
              problems and issues ahead of time, success is more likely.


              One knows what they are doing with their life, why look at something
              that requires disturbing the status quo. I don't need anything else
              as my own clever mind to guide me in my life's decisions.

              Could meditation somehow hurt me in a psychological way?

              I will need approximately 45 minutes out of a busy day to meditate.

              Can I find a place to meditate with kids making noise and getting
              into mischief; do I have a spouse or someone to watch the kids?

              What will my acquaintances and relatives think I am up to, trying to
              get out of chores?

              Feelings will surface in meditation I will have to do something about
              to resolve them or the same feeling will come back again and again
              with no resolution possible.

              I will have to find a teacher I trust, and how will I know if they
              are trustworthy and wise. A lot of people are trying to make money on
              meditators, for example just look at the Internet

              When enlightenment happens, I will suffer giving up my karma driven
              ego attachments and will be find it is all I can do to get through
              the change.

              Enlightenment will give me guidance on how to conduct my life. I
              will be directed to change my behavior, and that will eventually
              change my personality and I like my personality the way it is.

              It probably will take lifetimes to work out all my karma so lets just
              enjoy life now and worry about working things out some other lifetime.


              Off the top of my head, here are some positive things I can think of
              about meditation. Maybe you can think of some more benefits.

              I will be a lot calmer about what is happening in my life. People
              will find me a lot easier to be with.

              Problems in my subconscious that rule my actions will be revealed.

              Dreams will not bother me

              Anything in life can be dealt with

              I will be a benefit to others

              Life will get better for me

              Problems that I cannot solve myself I can turn over to the
              enlightenment process
            • sean tremblay
              I believe anybody that lives in the world faces these problems and we all have the answers to them. As for finding a teacher I personally would not follow any
              Message 6 of 23 , Mar 1 4:56 PM
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                I believe anybody that lives in the world faces these problems and we all have the answers to them.  As for finding a teacher I personally would not follow any one teacher, I think teachers are all around you.  Meditating like running, you don't need a coach or personal trainer to accomplish your goals.  And I am speaking as someone who often gets caught up in the rigmarole of daily life and falls short of my potential.

                westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                Here are all the problems I can think of at the moment in taking up
                meditation. I list these, not because I wish to discourage
                meditation, but to allow to can plan ahead. If one works out the
                problems and issues ahead of time, success is more likely.

                One knows what they are doing with their life, why look at something
                that requires disturbing the status quo. I don't need anything else
                as my own clever mind to guide me in my life's decisions.

                Could meditation somehow hurt me in a psychological way?

                I will need approximately 45 minutes out of a busy day to meditate.

                Can I find a place to meditate with kids making noise and getting
                into mischief; do I have a spouse or someone to watch the kids?

                What will my acquaintances and relatives think I am up to, trying to
                get out of chores?

                Feelings will surface in meditation I will have to do something about
                to resolve them or the same feeling will come back again and again
                with no resolution possible.

                I will have to find a teacher I trust, and how will I know if they
                are trustworthy and wise. A lot of people are trying to make money on
                meditators, for example just look at the Internet

                When enlightenment happens, I will suffer giving up my karma driven
                ego attachments and will be find it is all I can do to get through
                the change.

                Enlightenment will give me guidance on how to conduct my life. I
                will be directed to change my behavior, and that will eventually
                change my personality and I like my personality the way it is.

                It probably will take lifetimes to work out all my karma so lets just
                enjoy life now and worry about working things out some other lifetime.

                Off the top of my head, here are some positive things I can think of
                about meditation. Maybe you can think of some more benefits.

                I will be a lot calmer about what is happening in my life. People
                will find me a lot easier to be with.

                Problems in my subconscious that rule my actions will be revealed.

                Dreams will not bother me

                Anything in life can be dealt with

                I will be a benefit to others

                Life will get better for me

                Problems that I cannot solve myself I can turn over to the
                enlightenment process



                Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

              • jogeshwarmahanta
                So long one searches 45 minutes a day he/she can never progress. It is 24 hours affair. For that, I have made myself a DWCL(Daily Wager Continuous Labourer).
                Message 7 of 23 , Mar 1 9:39 PM
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                  So long one searches 45 minutes a day he/she can never progress. It
                  is 24 hours affair. For that, I have made myself a DWCL(Daily Wager
                  Continuous Labourer). Continuous means shayane/in sleep,swapane/in
                  dream, jagarane/in waking state and in diversone/in diverson.

                  If one needs wage how can he/she neglect the labour?
                  regards



                  --- In
                  meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
                  <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Here are all the problems I can think of at the moment in taking
                  up
                  > meditation. I list these, not because I wish to discourage
                  > meditation, but to allow to can plan ahead. If one works out the
                  > problems and issues ahead of time, success is more likely.
                  >
                  >
                  > One knows what they are doing with their life, why look at
                  something
                  > that requires disturbing the status quo. I don't need anything
                  else
                  > as my own clever mind to guide me in my life's decisions.
                  >
                  > Could meditation somehow hurt me in a psychological way?
                  >
                  > I will need approximately 45 minutes out of a busy day to meditate.
                  >
                  > Can I find a place to meditate with kids making noise and getting
                  > into mischief; do I have a spouse or someone to watch the kids?
                  >
                  > What will my acquaintances and relatives think I am up to, trying
                  to
                  > get out of chores?
                  >
                  > Feelings will surface in meditation I will have to do something
                  about
                  > to resolve them or the same feeling will come back again and again
                  > with no resolution possible.
                  >
                  > I will have to find a teacher I trust, and how will I know if they
                  > are trustworthy and wise. A lot of people are trying to make money
                  on
                  > meditators, for example just look at the Internet
                  >
                  > When enlightenment happens, I will suffer giving up my karma
                  driven
                  > ego attachments and will be find it is all I can do to get through
                  > the change.
                  >
                  > Enlightenment will give me guidance on how to conduct my life. I
                  > will be directed to change my behavior, and that will eventually
                  > change my personality and I like my personality the way it is.
                  >
                  > It probably will take lifetimes to work out all my karma so lets
                  just
                  > enjoy life now and worry about working things out some other
                  lifetime.
                  >
                  >
                  > Off the top of my head, here are some positive things I can think
                  of
                  > about meditation. Maybe you can think of some more benefits.
                  >
                  > I will be a lot calmer about what is happening in my life. People
                  > will find me a lot easier to be with.
                  >
                  > Problems in my subconscious that rule my actions will be revealed.
                  >
                  > Dreams will not bother me
                  >
                  > Anything in life can be dealt with
                  >
                  > I will be a benefit to others
                  >
                  > Life will get better for me
                  >
                  > Problems that I cannot solve myself I can turn over to the
                  > enlightenment process
                  >
                • Jeff Belyea
                  Sean - While I am not an advocate of devotion to any one teacher, I do feel that a teacher who appears on your path with teachings that resonate as
                  Message 8 of 23 , Mar 3 2:31 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Sean -

                    While I am not an advocate
                    of devotion to any one teacher,
                    I do feel that a teacher who
                    "appears" on your path with
                    teachings that resonate as
                    attractive and compelling
                    can be valuable.

                    A teacher who can speak authentically
                    about their own experiences (which
                    is the only premise for authenticity
                    and the only platform for teaching)
                    can inspire the student to believe in,
                    expect, and move forward toward
                    their greater potential and/or their
                    desire for accomplishment - from
                    anything from quitting smoking to
                    finding peace of mind.

                    Meditation, as you wrote, is
                    easy and natural, but the mindset
                    approaching meditation, and the
                    nuances of "techniques" can
                    make the difference between
                    a quiet time of relaxation and
                    the opening of a new door
                    of perception.

                    Best,

                    Jeff

                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
                    <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I believe anybody that lives in the world faces these problems and
                    we all have the answers to them. As for finding a teacher I
                    personally would not follow any one teacher, I think teachers are all
                    around you. Meditating like running, you don't need a coach or
                    personal trainer to accomplish your goals. And I am speaking as
                    someone who often gets caught up in the rigmarole of daily life and
                    falls short of my potential.
                    >
                    > westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@...> wrote: Here are
                    all the problems I can think of at the moment in taking up
                    > meditation. I list these, not because I wish to discourage
                    > meditation, but to allow to can plan ahead. If one works out the
                    > problems and issues ahead of time, success is more likely.
                    >
                    > One knows what they are doing with their life, why look at
                    something
                    > that requires disturbing the status quo. I don't need anything else
                    > as my own clever mind to guide me in my life's decisions.
                    >
                    > Could meditation somehow hurt me in a psychological way?
                    >
                    > I will need approximately 45 minutes out of a busy day to meditate.
                    >
                    > Can I find a place to meditate with kids making noise and getting
                    > into mischief; do I have a spouse or someone to watch the kids?
                    >
                    > What will my acquaintances and relatives think I am up to, trying
                    to
                    > get out of chores?
                    >
                    > Feelings will surface in meditation I will have to do something
                    about
                    > to resolve them or the same feeling will come back again and again
                    > with no resolution possible.
                    >
                    > I will have to find a teacher I trust, and how will I know if they
                    > are trustworthy and wise. A lot of people are trying to make money
                    on
                    > meditators, for example just look at the Internet
                    >
                    > When enlightenment happens, I will suffer giving up my karma driven
                    > ego attachments and will be find it is all I can do to get through
                    > the change.
                    >
                    > Enlightenment will give me guidance on how to conduct my life. I
                    > will be directed to change my behavior, and that will eventually
                    > change my personality and I like my personality the way it is.
                    >
                    > It probably will take lifetimes to work out all my karma so lets
                    just
                    > enjoy life now and worry about working things out some other
                    lifetime.
                    >
                    > Off the top of my head, here are some positive things I can think
                    of
                    > about meditation. Maybe you can think of some more benefits.
                    >
                    > I will be a lot calmer about what is happening in my life. People
                    > will find me a lot easier to be with.
                    >
                    > Problems in my subconscious that rule my actions will be revealed.
                    >
                    > Dreams will not bother me
                    >
                    > Anything in life can be dealt with
                    >
                    > I will be a benefit to others
                    >
                    > Life will get better for me
                    >
                    > Problems that I cannot solve myself I can turn over to the
                    > enlightenment process
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
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                  • Jeff Belyea
                    To highlight one of the problems or resistances to truly entering meditation, it is important to recognize that a language barrier also exists. When problems
                    Message 9 of 23 , Mar 3 3:29 AM
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                      To highlight one of the problems
                      or resistances to truly entering
                      meditation, it is important to
                      recognize that a language barrier
                      also exists.

                      When "problems" are listed as
                      preparation for meditation, the
                      words do not resonate at the
                      same depth for a beginning, or
                      even experienced meditator, as
                      they do for those who have
                      been graced with crossing the
                      threshold of enlightenment.

                      For example, the mention of
                      sufering when encountering
                      the giving up of ego attachments
                      - this feels like certain "death"
                      when reached in full technocolor.

                      Only the truly committed or
                      truly desperate - those who
                      are wiling to risk death -
                      will take on this one. It is
                      the turning back point for many
                      dabblers in meditation.

                      In essence, there is no possible
                      preparation for what is experienced
                      in depth meditation. It is beyond
                      words or description. It cannot
                      really be "sought" in any real
                      sense. If peace of mind is sought,
                      the manner in which it presents
                      is startling, and in no way
                      resembles any preconceived notion.
                      The linear mind cannot anticipate
                      or grasp the experience - yet, it
                      delights in the result.





                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
                      <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Here are all the problems I can think of at the moment in taking up
                      > meditation. I list these, not because I wish to discourage
                      > meditation, but to allow to can plan ahead. If one works out the
                      > problems and issues ahead of time, success is more likely.
                      >
                      >
                      > One knows what they are doing with their life, why look at
                      something
                      > that requires disturbing the status quo. I don't need anything else
                      > as my own clever mind to guide me in my life's decisions.
                      >
                      > Could meditation somehow hurt me in a psychological way?
                      >
                      > I will need approximately 45 minutes out of a busy day to meditate.
                      >
                      > Can I find a place to meditate with kids making noise and getting
                      > into mischief; do I have a spouse or someone to watch the kids?
                      >
                      > What will my acquaintances and relatives think I am up to, trying
                      to
                      > get out of chores?
                      >
                      > Feelings will surface in meditation I will have to do something
                      about
                      > to resolve them or the same feeling will come back again and again
                      > with no resolution possible.
                      >
                      > I will have to find a teacher I trust, and how will I know if they
                      > are trustworthy and wise. A lot of people are trying to make money
                      on
                      > meditators, for example just look at the Internet
                      >
                      > When enlightenment happens, I will suffer giving up my karma driven
                      > ego attachments and will be find it is all I can do to get through
                      > the change.
                      >
                      > Enlightenment will give me guidance on how to conduct my life. I
                      > will be directed to change my behavior, and that will eventually
                      > change my personality and I like my personality the way it is.
                      >
                      > It probably will take lifetimes to work out all my karma so lets
                      just
                      > enjoy life now and worry about working things out some other
                      lifetime.
                      >
                      >
                      > Off the top of my head, here are some positive things I can think
                      of
                      > about meditation. Maybe you can think of some more benefits.
                      >
                      > I will be a lot calmer about what is happening in my life. People
                      > will find me a lot easier to be with.
                      >
                      > Problems in my subconscious that rule my actions will be revealed.
                      >
                      > Dreams will not bother me
                      >
                      > Anything in life can be dealt with
                      >
                      > I will be a benefit to others
                      >
                      > Life will get better for me
                      >
                      > Problems that I cannot solve myself I can turn over to the
                      > enlightenment process
                      >
                    • sean tremblay
                      Agreed, Like in my fairly recent Ashtanga experiments, it s good to have a teacher to point out the small stuff like a quarter inch here or there. But it
                      Message 10 of 23 , Mar 5 8:52 AM
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                        Agreed,
                        Like in my fairly recent Ashtanga experiments, it's good to have a teacher to point out the small stuff like a quarter inch here or there.  But it still boils down to doing it. We can find our peace in many ways.  I have found it in Diving, submerged in an alien world leave all the hate and dicontent on the surface all you have is the rythme of your breathing echoing in the hat, the near wieghtlessness and your your project at hand.  I have found teachers who for a short time have left something of an impression, but I maintain that my greatest teachers have been the trailor park sages, vagabond poets, street ascetics and cowboy philosophers.

                        Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
                        Sean -

                        While I am not an advocate
                        of devotion to any one teacher,
                        I do feel that a teacher who
                        "appears" on your path with
                        teachings that resonate as
                        attractive and compelling
                        can be valuable.

                        A teacher who can speak authentically
                        about their own experiences (which
                        is the only premise for authenticity
                        and the only platform for teaching)
                        can inspire the student to believe in,
                        expect, and move forward toward
                        their greater potential and/or their
                        desire for accomplishment - from
                        anything from quitting smoking to
                        finding peace of mind.

                        Meditation, as you wrote, is
                        easy and natural, but the mindset
                        approaching meditation, and the
                        nuances of "techniques" can
                        make the difference between
                        a quiet time of relaxation and
                        the opening of a new door
                        of perception.

                        Best,

                        Jeff

                        --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, sean tremblay
                        <bethjams9@. ..> wrote:
                        >
                        > I believe anybody that lives in the world faces these problems and
                        we all have the answers to them. As for finding a teacher I
                        personally would not follow any one teacher, I think teachers are all
                        around you. Meditating like running, you don't need a coach or
                        personal trainer to accomplish your goals. And I am speaking as
                        someone who often gets caught up in the rigmarole of daily life and
                        falls short of my potential.
                        >
                        > westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@ ...> wrote: Here are
                        all the problems I can think of at the moment in taking up
                        > meditation. I list these, not because I wish to discourage
                        > meditation, but to allow to can plan ahead. If one works out the
                        > problems and issues ahead of time, success is more likely.
                        >
                        > One knows what they are doing with their life, why look at
                        something
                        > that requires disturbing the status quo. I don't need anything else
                        > as my own clever mind to guide me in my life's decisions.
                        >
                        > Could meditation somehow hurt me in a psychological way?
                        >
                        > I will need approximately 45 minutes out of a busy day to meditate.
                        >
                        > Can I find a place to meditate with kids making noise and getting
                        > into mischief; do I have a spouse or someone to watch the kids?
                        >
                        > What will my acquaintances and relatives think I am up to, trying
                        to
                        > get out of chores?
                        >
                        > Feelings will surface in meditation I will have to do something
                        about
                        > to resolve them or the same feeling will come back again and again
                        > with no resolution possible.
                        >
                        > I will have to find a teacher I trust, and how will I know if they
                        > are trustworthy and wise. A lot of people are trying to make money
                        on
                        > meditators, for example just look at the Internet
                        >
                        > When enlightenment happens, I will suffer giving up my karma driven
                        > ego attachments and will be find it is all I can do to get through
                        > the change.
                        >
                        > Enlightenment will give me guidance on how to conduct my life. I
                        > will be directed to change my behavior, and that will eventually
                        > change my personality and I like my personality the way it is.
                        >
                        > It probably will take lifetimes to work out all my karma so lets
                        just
                        > enjoy life now and worry about working things out some other
                        lifetime.
                        >
                        > Off the top of my head, here are some positive things I can think
                        of
                        > about meditation. Maybe you can think of some more benefits.
                        >
                        > I will be a lot calmer about what is happening in my life. People
                        > will find me a lot easier to be with.
                        >
                        > Problems in my subconscious that rule my actions will be revealed.
                        >
                        > Dreams will not bother me
                        >
                        > Anything in life can be dealt with
                        >
                        > I will be a benefit to others
                        >
                        > Life will get better for me
                        >
                        > Problems that I cannot solve myself I can turn over to the
                        > enlightenment process
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                        > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
                        Try it now.
                        >



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                      • Jeff Belyea
                        Great. You know where to draw the line. Nice roster of teachers. Obviously, you also know where to look for authenticity. ... teacher to point out the small
                        Message 11 of 23 , Mar 5 8:58 AM
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                          Great. You know where to
                          draw the line.
                          Nice roster of teachers.
                          Obviously, you also know
                          where to look for authenticity.


                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
                          <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Agreed,
                          > Like in my fairly recent Ashtanga experiments, it's good to have a
                          teacher to point out the small stuff like a quarter inch here or
                          there. But it still boils down to doing it. We can find our peace in
                          many ways. I have found it in Diving, submerged in an alien world
                          leave all the hate and dicontent on the surface all you have is the
                          rythme of your breathing echoing in the hat, the near wieghtlessness
                          and your your project at hand. I have found teachers who for a short
                          time have left something of an impression, but I maintain that my
                          greatest teachers have been the trailor park sages, vagabond poets,
                          street ascetics and cowboy philosophers.
                          >
                          > Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
                          > Sean -
                          >
                          > While I am not an advocate
                          > of devotion to any one teacher,
                          > I do feel that a teacher who
                          > "appears" on your path with
                          > teachings that resonate as
                          > attractive and compelling
                          > can be valuable.
                          >
                          > A teacher who can speak authentically
                          > about their own experiences (which
                          > is the only premise for authenticity
                          > and the only platform for teaching)
                          > can inspire the student to believe in,
                          > expect, and move forward toward
                          > their greater potential and/or their
                          > desire for accomplishment - from
                          > anything from quitting smoking to
                          > finding peace of mind.
                          >
                          > Meditation, as you wrote, is
                          > easy and natural, but the mindset
                          > approaching meditation, and the
                          > nuances of "techniques" can
                          > make the difference between
                          > a quiet time of relaxation and
                          > the opening of a new door
                          > of perception.
                          >
                          > Best,
                          >
                          > Jeff
                          >
                          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
                          > <bethjams9@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I believe anybody that lives in the world faces these problems and
                          > we all have the answers to them. As for finding a teacher I
                          > personally would not follow any one teacher, I think teachers are all
                          > around you. Meditating like running, you don't need a coach or
                          > personal trainer to accomplish your goals. And I am speaking as
                          > someone who often gets caught up in the rigmarole of daily life and
                          > falls short of my potential.
                          > >
                          > > westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@> wrote: Here are
                          > all the problems I can think of at the moment in taking up
                          > > meditation. I list these, not because I wish to discourage
                          > > meditation, but to allow to can plan ahead. If one works out the
                          > > problems and issues ahead of time, success is more likely.
                          > >
                          > > One knows what they are doing with their life, why look at
                          > something
                          > > that requires disturbing the status quo. I don't need anything else
                          > > as my own clever mind to guide me in my life's decisions.
                          > >
                          > > Could meditation somehow hurt me in a psychological way?
                          > >
                          > > I will need approximately 45 minutes out of a busy day to meditate.
                          > >
                          > > Can I find a place to meditate with kids making noise and getting
                          > > into mischief; do I have a spouse or someone to watch the kids?
                          > >
                          > > What will my acquaintances and relatives think I am up to, trying
                          > to
                          > > get out of chores?
                          > >
                          > > Feelings will surface in meditation I will have to do something
                          > about
                          > > to resolve them or the same feeling will come back again and again
                          > > with no resolution possible.
                          > >
                          > > I will have to find a teacher I trust, and how will I know if they
                          > > are trustworthy and wise. A lot of people are trying to make money
                          > on
                          > > meditators, for example just look at the Internet
                          > >
                          > > When enlightenment happens, I will suffer giving up my karma driven
                          > > ego attachments and will be find it is all I can do to get through
                          > > the change.
                          > >
                          > > Enlightenment will give me guidance on how to conduct my life. I
                          > > will be directed to change my behavior, and that will eventually
                          > > change my personality and I like my personality the way it is.
                          > >
                          > > It probably will take lifetimes to work out all my karma so lets
                          > just
                          > > enjoy life now and worry about working things out some other
                          > lifetime.
                          > >
                          > > Off the top of my head, here are some positive things I can think
                          > of
                          > > about meditation. Maybe you can think of some more benefits.
                          > >
                          > > I will be a lot calmer about what is happening in my life. People
                          > > will find me a lot easier to be with.
                          > >
                          > > Problems in my subconscious that rule my actions will be revealed.
                          > >
                          > > Dreams will not bother me
                          > >
                          > > Anything in life can be dealt with
                          > >
                          > > I will be a benefit to others
                          > >
                          > > Life will get better for me
                          > >
                          > > Problems that I cannot solve myself I can turn over to the
                          > > enlightenment process
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ---------------------------------
                          > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
                          > Try it now.
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
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