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RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: What is Your Meditation Like

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  • Balasubramanian Radhakrishnan Kumar
    One should never be afraid of darkness. Light, howsoever small, is far more powerful than darkness howsoever big, howsoever old. In fact, darkness has no
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 25 7:22 AM
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      One should never be afraid of darkness. Light, howsoever small, is far more powerful than darkness howsoever big, howsoever old. In fact, darkness has no power, light has power.--- OSHO 


      To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
      From: westwindwood2003@...
      Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:16:05 -0800
      Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: What is Your Meditation Like

      I found that when I meditate regularly, I do not have dreams, or at least if I did, I could not rememeber them at all.

      jogeshwarmahanta <jogeshwarmahanta@ yahoo.com> wrote:
      Just I came out from the class at 11.20am imparting 2 practical
      exercises on simulated dreams/translogical exercises with a view to
      (1)stimulate brain cells to keep them healthy(2)prevent bad dreams
      and so on.Participants of every hue enjoy the experience.
      regards

      --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
      <no_reply@.. .> wrote:
      >
      > --- In
      meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, "westwindwood2003"
      > <westwindwood2003@ > wrote:
      > >
      > > Here is mine:
      > >
      > > I was thinking about how natural it is to meditate. In a
      beautiful
      > > rural setting, my eyes gaze upon the wonderful surroundings and
      it is
      > > just myself taking it in and not analyzing it. Some gardens are
      > > specifically laid out for meditation, a garden at a Zen temple
      for
      > > instance. The intellectual mind just stops and I am left with
      my
      > > feelings coming to the fore of my consciousness. At another
      time I
      > > will be doing a simple task like washing dishes and again my
      feelings
      > > and emotional propensities come into view. Before I became wise
      to
      > > the ways of meditation, I would shut off these feelings flowing
      into
      > > my awareness because invariably it would seem that the subject
      matter
      > > would have a turmoil to it that would be uncomfortable,
      > > disconcerting, needing a way out of what came to the forefront.
      > >
      > > I prefer these natural ways of meditating because with a mantra,
      > > breath watching, a candle flame, a rosary, the meditative state
      is
      > > occupied much of the time with the method of getting into
      meditation,
      > > and there is less room for the unconscious desires that are
      mucking
      > > up my life to come forth for resolution. There are other
      altered
      > > states for comparison. In a state of sexual passion, the
      > > intellectual mind shuts down and a lot of feelings come forth
      and at
      > > a peak even feelings seem to shut down, but what happens is much
      more
      > > intense that meditation, and maybe a baby is created into a
      loving
      > > home. There are drugs that bring forth visions, such as LSD,
      > > opiates, or alcohol addiction hallucinations (well, I never
      > > experienced that), but there is no single subject that flows
      forth
      > > into awareness and evolves towards recognition with drug-induced
      > > visions. Sleep brings dreams, and this is much more intense than
      > > meditation, and if the subject matter of a dream is deliberately
      > > remembered while meditating, the feeling brought forth is much
      more
      > > intense that what is normally experienced in meditation.
      > >
      > > It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can be
      > > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue
      or
      > > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single clear
      > > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
      > > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above
      mentioned
      > > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of ones
      own
      > > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity
      while
      > > meditating for 45 minutes. If a person follows what that wisdom
      > > tells them to do, the person eventually evolves towards what
      > > enlightenment wisdom is and after lifetimes merges into it.
      > >
      > Yo Westwind,
      > I resonate with much of what you are sharing
      > and recognize some things that we differ about,
      > such as the statements about dreams being "much
      > more intense than meditation". But I think we
      > may just have different things in mind when we
      > use the terms we do that are meant to describe
      > various states of consciousness. For instance,
      > to answer 'What Meditation Is Like For Me', I feel
      > that before meditation became an ongoing part of
      > my life, I was in a dream-like state even when I
      > was "awake". And nothing in that level of consciousness
      > was really clear or "Real", much like a fetus cannot
      > be said to be appreciating the full experience of
      > life as a human. And with meditation, just as the new-born
      > child can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel in
      > a way that never was known before, the adult in
      > us can relate to Reality in ways never before possible.
      > In any event, I enjoy what you share and it points
      > to beneficial concepts that are well worth
      > meditating upon.
      > Peace and blessings,
      > Bob
      >


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    • jogeshwarmahanta
      The second part is correct. Dreaming is natural and normally we forget the dreams. However,quality of dreams is very important.Healthy dreams promote health
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 25 5:55 PM
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        The second part is correct. Dreaming is natural and normally we
        forget the dreams.

        However,quality of dreams is very important.Healthy dreams promote
        health and healthy people have sweet dreams.
        regards


        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, John Balch
        <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
        >
        > I found that when I meditate regularly, I do not have dreams, or
        at least if I did, I could not rememeber them at all.
        >
        > jogeshwarmahanta <jogeshwarmahanta@...> wrote: Just I came
        out from the class at 11.20am imparting 2 practical
        > exercises on simulated dreams/translogical exercises with a view to
        > (1)stimulate brain cells to keep them healthy(2)prevent bad dreams
        > and so on.Participants of every hue enjoy the experience.
        > regards
        >
        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
        medit8ionsociety
        > <no_reply@> wrote:
        > >
        > > --- In
        > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
        > > <westwindwood2003@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Here is mine:
        > > >
        > > > I was thinking about how natural it is to meditate. In a
        > beautiful
        > > > rural setting, my eyes gaze upon the wonderful surroundings
        and
        > it is
        > > > just myself taking it in and not analyzing it. Some gardens
        are
        > > > specifically laid out for meditation, a garden at a Zen temple
        > for
        > > > instance. The intellectual mind just stops and I am left with
        > my
        > > > feelings coming to the fore of my consciousness. At another
        > time I
        > > > will be doing a simple task like washing dishes and again my
        > feelings
        > > > and emotional propensities come into view. Before I became
        wise
        > to
        > > > the ways of meditation, I would shut off these feelings
        flowing
        > into
        > > > my awareness because invariably it would seem that the subject
        > matter
        > > > would have a turmoil to it that would be uncomfortable,
        > > > disconcerting, needing a way out of what came to the
        forefront.
        > > >
        > > > I prefer these natural ways of meditating because with a
        mantra,
        > > > breath watching, a candle flame, a rosary, the meditative
        state
        > is
        > > > occupied much of the time with the method of getting into
        > meditation,
        > > > and there is less room for the unconscious desires that are
        > mucking
        > > > up my life to come forth for resolution. There are other
        > altered
        > > > states for comparison. In a state of sexual passion, the
        > > > intellectual mind shuts down and a lot of feelings come forth
        > and at
        > > > a peak even feelings seem to shut down, but what happens is
        much
        > more
        > > > intense that meditation, and maybe a baby is created into a
        > loving
        > > > home. There are drugs that bring forth visions, such as LSD,
        > > > opiates, or alcohol addiction hallucinations (well, I never
        > > > experienced that), but there is no single subject that flows
        > forth
        > > > into awareness and evolves towards recognition with drug-
        induced
        > > > visions. Sleep brings dreams, and this is much more intense
        than
        > > > meditation, and if the subject matter of a dream is
        deliberately
        > > > remembered while meditating, the feeling brought forth is much
        > more
        > > > intense that what is normally experienced in meditation.
        > > >
        > > > It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can
        be
        > > > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue
        > or
        > > > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single
        clear
        > > > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
        > > > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above
        > mentioned
        > > > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of
        ones
        > own
        > > > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity
        > while
        > > > meditating for 45 minutes. If a person follows what that
        wisdom
        > > > tells them to do, the person eventually evolves towards what
        > > > enlightenment wisdom is and after lifetimes merges into it.
        > > >
        > > Yo Westwind,
        > > I resonate with much of what you are sharing
        > > and recognize some things that we differ about,
        > > such as the statements about dreams being "much
        > > more intense than meditation". But I think we
        > > may just have different things in mind when we
        > > use the terms we do that are meant to describe
        > > various states of consciousness. For instance,
        > > to answer 'What Meditation Is Like For Me', I feel
        > > that before meditation became an ongoing part of
        > > my life, I was in a dream-like state even when I
        > > was "awake". And nothing in that level of consciousness
        > > was really clear or "Real", much like a fetus cannot
        > > be said to be appreciating the full experience of
        > > life as a human. And with meditation, just as the new-born
        > > child can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel in
        > > a way that never was known before, the adult in
        > > us can relate to Reality in ways never before possible.
        > > In any event, I enjoy what you share and it points
        > > to beneficial concepts that are well worth
        > > meditating upon.
        > > Peace and blessings,
        > > Bob
        > >
        >
        >
        >
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      • J
        ... Dear friends...... It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can be ... I think there is a lot to that statement. I do not think there
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 1, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
          <no_reply@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
          > <westwindwood2003@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Here is mine:
          > >
          > > I was thinking about how natural it is to meditate. In a beautiful
          > > rural setting, my eyes gaze upon the wonderful surroundings and it is
          > > just myself taking it in and not analyzing it. Some gardens are
          > > specifically laid out for meditation, a garden at a Zen temple for
          > > instance. The intellectual mind just stops and I am left with my
          > > feelings coming to the fore of my consciousness. At another time I
          > > will be doing a simple task like washing dishes and again my feelings
          > > and emotional propensities come into view. Before I became wise to
          > > the ways of meditation, I would shut off these feelings flowing into
          > > my awareness because invariably it would seem that the subject matter
          > > would have a turmoil to it that would be uncomfortable,
          > > disconcerting, needing a way out of what came to the forefront.
          > >
          > > I prefer these natural ways of meditating because with a mantra,
          > > breath watching, a candle flame, a rosary, the meditative state is
          > > occupied much of the time with the method of getting into meditation,
          > > and there is less room for the unconscious desires that are mucking
          > > up my life to come forth for resolution. There are other altered
          > > states for comparison. In a state of sexual passion, the
          > > intellectual mind shuts down and a lot of feelings come forth and at
          > > a peak even feelings seem to shut down, but what happens is much more
          > > intense that meditation, and maybe a baby is created into a loving
          > > home. There are drugs that bring forth visions, such as LSD,
          > > opiates, or alcohol addiction hallucinations (well, I never
          > > experienced that), but there is no single subject that flows forth
          > > into awareness and evolves towards recognition with drug-induced
          > > visions. Sleep brings dreams, and this is much more intense than
          > > meditation, and if the subject matter of a dream is deliberately
          > > remembered while meditating, the feeling brought forth is much more
          > > intense that what is normally experienced in meditation.
          > >
          > > It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can be
          > > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue or
          > > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single clear
          > > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
          > > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above mentioned
          > > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of ones own
          > > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity while
          > > meditating for 45 minutes. If a person follows what that wisdom
          > > tells them to do, the person eventually evolves towards what
          > > enlightenment wisdom is and after lifetimes merges into it.
          > >
          > Yo Westwind,
          > I resonate with much of what you are sharing
          > and recognize some things that we differ about,
          > such as the statements about dreams being "much
          > more intense than meditation". But I think we
          > may just have different things in mind when we
          > use the terms we do that are meant to describe
          > various states of consciousness. For instance,
          > to answer 'What Meditation Is Like For Me', I feel
          > that before meditation became an ongoing part of
          > my life, I was in a dream-like state even when I
          > was "awake". And nothing in that level of consciousness
          > was really clear or "Real", much like a fetus cannot
          > be said to be appreciating the full experience of
          > life as a human. And with meditation, just as the new-born
          > child can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel in
          > a way that never was known before, the adult in
          > us can relate to Reality in ways never before possible.
          > In any event, I enjoy what you share and it points
          > to beneficial concepts that are well worth
          > meditating upon.
          > Peace and blessings,
          > Bob




          Dear friends......

          <i>It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can be
          > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue or
          > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single clear
          > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
          > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above mentioned
          > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of ones own
          > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity while
          > meditating for 45 minutes.</i>


          I think there is a lot to that statement. I do not think there is any
          forcing any "jhana" or euphoric state associated with meditation.

          Lately I would say my meditation has plateaued. I think there are
          greater things going on to be discovered when they are to be
          discovered. I think some of the best things are discovered on one's
          own, with only an attitude of fearlessness, going forth in "the
          journey". Meditation can be truly scary, when you enter states,
          without an awareness of self, being or "ego". The herb <i> Salvia
          Divinorum</i> is used in religious ceremonies by various cultures, and
          produces a state where there is no "ego" and the spirit seems to
          function "out of body" and mind. I've had some experience with this
          "ethnogen" and the "egolessness" experienced may have assisted me in
          attaining certain meditative states, but I think the primary element
          responsible was simpling meditating at least twice daily, in a variety
          of settings.

          I started TM and yoga after I'd been jumped by three convicts on the
          run. They assaulted me and knocked me unconscious on Halloween night.

          Oddly the Halloween night two years before that, I had a vivid
          nightmare about being attacked, pursued by three individuals
          oddly like those assaulters. This was about the time I started
          getting into dream journaling and became conscious in my dreams that I
          was "dreaming" and could control those dreams, also known as "lucid
          dreaming".

          During one "lucid" moment, in a dream, when I was actually able to
          stay asleep while being in full awareness of my dreamstate, I put a
          hand forth, into the face of an old man walking across a rope bridge
          towards me in some huge primeval bottomless gorge. Following my hand,
          I tumbled forth, into this "old man" through space and mists and times
          and ended up in what felt like some ancient civilization, sitting in a
          meditation pose with a "teacher" sitting in front of me.

          If meditation has taught me one thing, it is that "reality" is a
          highly dynamic quantity and like anything "in time", it is continually
          changing, reflecting, creating and destroying life, like there is no
          creating and destroying, only life in spirit and spirit in life,
          constantly morphing, flowing, creating and recreating.

          I have had some truly profound and "psychic" experiences as the result
          of the "dream waking" state. The level I have reached, while just
          "resting" a few times, not "trying" to reach any state. That's a whole
          nother story though ! 8)

          I have had some profoundly pleasurable and frightening experiences in
          meditation this year. Really this year is the only time I have
          dedicated myself to twice daily meditation and I think other
          experiences in life have led me to some really deep substantive
          mediations. I have seen some incredible vistas. collages of shapes,
          forms, colors. Faces of people like they are standing right in front
          of me. I do not know who any of these people I have seen are. I have
          known all kinds of physical sensations while meditating, some painful.
          I've gone through what I could only consider to be "healing".

          In these scant two months I have been meditating daily I have noticed
          a greater feeling of power over my body or perhaps unity IN my body. I
          have been able to reduce and in some cases totally cease chronic pain
          I think a lot of this comes from yogic exercises in relaxing various
          parts of my body. My thinking has changed. There is not so much "mind
          chatter" going on before I do somethings. It's like I "intuitively" do
          things or think of answers to problems without "thinking". I've only
          tasted these benefits and I'm hungry for more. You know how it is with
          this though, you can't "hunger" for it. You just have to let it be.
          Which of course is much easier than it sounds, or is it ? 8)

          I wrote the following after, what I would call, my first experience in
          this deeper, more fulfilling meditation as "journey":


          <i>January 8, 2008

          Today, midway on my walk , I sat on the picnic bench in the park
          to meditate. I entered a warm and lucid state, like the soft
          core in a total and engulfing sphere. With my eyes shut, all
          the sounds surrounding, changing, interweaving, with tens of
          thousands of voices coming from the torrents and trickling
          of the creek forty feet in front of me. They changed and
          morphed into one another, always in harmony, always imperfect
          yet pure, as we too could be. When I gently awoke, there was a
          beautiful woman, like some sweet revelation,
          walking by on the otherside.

          After some alternate breathing exercises, I struck out,
          fresh and renewed, on the trail I often take. An old
          rotted oak had fallen by the trails head, and I thought,
          "This is how all living things must die, from the inside out
          not from the outside in." Then I thought how all living
          things are spherical in nature, trillions upon trillions
          of spheres, of every form and size, vibrating together,
          making one huge sphere, The Earth. Then on and on,
          planets, solar systems, and galaxies, on into infinity,
          never point A to B, rather round and round and round.

          On my way out of the woods, I slipped on a muddy bank.
          I grasped the branch of an oak sapling, wiping off the
          mud on my hands on it's dead leaves. I thought,
          "This is how I must touch all things, with ease, gently."</i>


          peace
        • jogeshwarmahanta
          It depends. Whether meditation is like DWCL(Daily Wager Casual Labourer)OR like DWCL(Daily Wager Continuous Labourer). regards ...
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 1, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            It depends. Whether meditation is like DWCL(Daily Wager Casual
            Labourer)OR like DWCL(Daily Wager Continuous Labourer).
            regards



            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "J"
            <thebluze@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
            > <no_reply@> wrote:
            > >
            > > --- In
            meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
            > > <westwindwood2003@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Here is mine:
            > > >
            > > > I was thinking about how natural it is to meditate. In a
            beautiful
            > > > rural setting, my eyes gaze upon the wonderful surroundings
            and it is
            > > > just myself taking it in and not analyzing it. Some gardens
            are
            > > > specifically laid out for meditation, a garden at a Zen temple
            for
            > > > instance. The intellectual mind just stops and I am left with
            my
            > > > feelings coming to the fore of my consciousness. At another
            time I
            > > > will be doing a simple task like washing dishes and again my
            feelings
            > > > and emotional propensities come into view. Before I became
            wise to
            > > > the ways of meditation, I would shut off these feelings
            flowing into
            > > > my awareness because invariably it would seem that the subject
            matter
            > > > would have a turmoil to it that would be uncomfortable,
            > > > disconcerting, needing a way out of what came to the
            forefront.
            > > >
            > > > I prefer these natural ways of meditating because with a
            mantra,
            > > > breath watching, a candle flame, a rosary, the meditative
            state is
            > > > occupied much of the time with the method of getting into
            meditation,
            > > > and there is less room for the unconscious desires that are
            mucking
            > > > up my life to come forth for resolution. There are other
            altered
            > > > states for comparison. In a state of sexual passion, the
            > > > intellectual mind shuts down and a lot of feelings come forth
            and at
            > > > a peak even feelings seem to shut down, but what happens is
            much more
            > > > intense that meditation, and maybe a baby is created into a
            loving
            > > > home. There are drugs that bring forth visions, such as LSD,
            > > > opiates, or alcohol addiction hallucinations (well, I never
            > > > experienced that), but there is no single subject that flows
            forth
            > > > into awareness and evolves towards recognition with drug-
            induced
            > > > visions. Sleep brings dreams, and this is much more intense
            than
            > > > meditation, and if the subject matter of a dream is
            deliberately
            > > > remembered while meditating, the feeling brought forth is much
            more
            > > > intense that what is normally experienced in meditation.
            > > >
            > > > It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can
            be
            > > > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue
            or
            > > > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single
            clear
            > > > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
            > > > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above
            mentioned
            > > > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of
            ones own
            > > > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity
            while
            > > > meditating for 45 minutes. If a person follows what that
            wisdom
            > > > tells them to do, the person eventually evolves towards what
            > > > enlightenment wisdom is and after lifetimes merges into it.
            > > >
            > > Yo Westwind,
            > > I resonate with much of what you are sharing
            > > and recognize some things that we differ about,
            > > such as the statements about dreams being "much
            > > more intense than meditation". But I think we
            > > may just have different things in mind when we
            > > use the terms we do that are meant to describe
            > > various states of consciousness. For instance,
            > > to answer 'What Meditation Is Like For Me', I feel
            > > that before meditation became an ongoing part of
            > > my life, I was in a dream-like state even when I
            > > was "awake". And nothing in that level of consciousness
            > > was really clear or "Real", much like a fetus cannot
            > > be said to be appreciating the full experience of
            > > life as a human. And with meditation, just as the new-born
            > > child can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel in
            > > a way that never was known before, the adult in
            > > us can relate to Reality in ways never before possible.
            > > In any event, I enjoy what you share and it points
            > > to beneficial concepts that are well worth
            > > meditating upon.
            > > Peace and blessings,
            > > Bob
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Dear friends......
            >
            > <i>It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can be
            > > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue or
            > > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single clear
            > > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
            > > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above
            mentioned
            > > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of ones
            own
            > > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity while
            > > meditating for 45 minutes.</i>
            >
            >
            > I think there is a lot to that statement. I do not think there is
            any
            > forcing any "jhana" or euphoric state associated with meditation.
            >
            > Lately I would say my meditation has plateaued. I think there are
            > greater things going on to be discovered when they are to be
            > discovered. I think some of the best things are discovered on
            one's
            > own, with only an attitude of fearlessness, going forth in "the
            > journey". Meditation can be truly scary, when you enter states,
            > without an awareness of self, being or "ego". The herb <i> Salvia
            > Divinorum</i> is used in religious ceremonies by various cultures,
            and
            > produces a state where there is no "ego" and the spirit seems to
            > function "out of body" and mind. I've had some experience with
            this
            > "ethnogen" and the "egolessness" experienced may have assisted me
            in
            > attaining certain meditative states, but I think the primary
            element
            > responsible was simpling meditating at least twice daily, in a
            variety
            > of settings.
            >
            > I started TM and yoga after I'd been jumped by three convicts on
            the
            > run. They assaulted me and knocked me unconscious on Halloween
            night.
            >
            > Oddly the Halloween night two years before that, I had a vivid
            > nightmare about being attacked, pursued by three individuals
            > oddly like those assaulters. This was about the time I started
            > getting into dream journaling and became conscious in my dreams
            that I
            > was "dreaming" and could control those dreams, also known as "lucid
            > dreaming".
            >
            > During one "lucid" moment, in a dream, when I was actually able to
            > stay asleep while being in full awareness of my dreamstate, I put a
            > hand forth, into the face of an old man walking across a rope
            bridge
            > towards me in some huge primeval bottomless gorge. Following my
            hand,
            > I tumbled forth, into this "old man" through space and mists and
            times
            > and ended up in what felt like some ancient civilization, sitting
            in a
            > meditation pose with a "teacher" sitting in front of me.
            >
            > If meditation has taught me one thing, it is that "reality" is a
            > highly dynamic quantity and like anything "in time", it is
            continually
            > changing, reflecting, creating and destroying life, like there is
            no
            > creating and destroying, only life in spirit and spirit in life,
            > constantly morphing, flowing, creating and recreating.
            >
            > I have had some truly profound and "psychic" experiences as the
            result
            > of the "dream waking" state. The level I have reached, while just
            > "resting" a few times, not "trying" to reach any state. That's a
            whole
            > nother story though ! 8)
            >
            > I have had some profoundly pleasurable and frightening experiences
            in
            > meditation this year. Really this year is the only time I have
            > dedicated myself to twice daily meditation and I think other
            > experiences in life have led me to some really deep substantive
            > mediations. I have seen some incredible vistas. collages of shapes,
            > forms, colors. Faces of people like they are standing right in
            front
            > of me. I do not know who any of these people I have seen are. I
            have
            > known all kinds of physical sensations while meditating, some
            painful.
            > I've gone through what I could only consider to be "healing".
            >
            > In these scant two months I have been meditating daily I have
            noticed
            > a greater feeling of power over my body or perhaps unity IN my
            body. I
            > have been able to reduce and in some cases totally cease chronic
            pain
            > I think a lot of this comes from yogic exercises in relaxing
            various
            > parts of my body. My thinking has changed. There is not so
            much "mind
            > chatter" going on before I do somethings. It's like
            I "intuitively" do
            > things or think of answers to problems without "thinking". I've
            only
            > tasted these benefits and I'm hungry for more. You know how it is
            with
            > this though, you can't "hunger" for it. You just have to let it be.
            > Which of course is much easier than it sounds, or is it ? 8)
            >
            > I wrote the following after, what I would call, my first
            experience in
            > this deeper, more fulfilling meditation as "journey":
            >
            >
            > <i>January 8, 2008
            >
            > Today, midway on my walk , I sat on the picnic bench in the park
            > to meditate. I entered a warm and lucid state, like the soft
            > core in a total and engulfing sphere. With my eyes shut, all
            > the sounds surrounding, changing, interweaving, with tens of
            > thousands of voices coming from the torrents and trickling
            > of the creek forty feet in front of me. They changed and
            > morphed into one another, always in harmony, always imperfect
            > yet pure, as we too could be. When I gently awoke, there was a
            > beautiful woman, like some sweet revelation,
            > walking by on the otherside.
            >
            > After some alternate breathing exercises, I struck out,
            > fresh and renewed, on the trail I often take. An old
            > rotted oak had fallen by the trails head, and I thought,
            > "This is how all living things must die, from the inside out
            > not from the outside in." Then I thought how all living
            > things are spherical in nature, trillions upon trillions
            > of spheres, of every form and size, vibrating together,
            > making one huge sphere, The Earth. Then on and on,
            > planets, solar systems, and galaxies, on into infinity,
            > never point A to B, rather round and round and round.
            >
            > On my way out of the woods, I slipped on a muddy bank.
            > I grasped the branch of an oak sapling, wiping off the
            > mud on my hands on it's dead leaves. I thought,
            > "This is how I must touch all things, with ease, gently."</i>
            >
            >
            > peace
            >
          • J
            so you must tell us what these exercises are ! simulated dreams/translogical exercises sounds very interesting ! please do go on ! I should add, I had a
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 1, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              so you must tell us what these exercises are !

              "simulated dreams/translogical exercises"


              sounds very interesting ! please do go on !

              I should add, I had a profound experience in meditation today.

              I decided to do some mid morning and wound up awakening two to three
              hours later. I fell into some trance dream, very intense, colorful,
              joyful. when I came out of it I was filled with pleasure and joy, it
              did not feel like I had been asleep, like a further journey perhaps,
              but I was most renewed and rested. I have no conscious memory of WHAT
              happened, just the feeling of peace and joy,
              it was so profound, and with me the whole day.

              namaste
              J



              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
              <jogeshwarmahanta@...> wrote:
              >
              > Just I came out from the class at 11.20am imparting 2 practical
              > exercises on simulated dreams/translogical exercises with a view to
              > (1)stimulate brain cells to keep them healthy(2)prevent bad dreams
              > and so on.Participants of every hue enjoy the experience.
              > regards
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
              > <no_reply@> wrote:
              > >
              > > --- In
              > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
              > > <westwindwood2003@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Here is mine:
              > > >
              > > > I was thinking about how natural it is to meditate. In a
              > beautiful
              > > > rural setting, my eyes gaze upon the wonderful surroundings and
              > it is
              > > > just myself taking it in and not analyzing it. Some gardens are
              > > > specifically laid out for meditation, a garden at a Zen temple
              > for
              > > > instance. The intellectual mind just stops and I am left with
              > my
              > > > feelings coming to the fore of my consciousness. At another
              > time I
              > > > will be doing a simple task like washing dishes and again my
              > feelings
              > > > and emotional propensities come into view. Before I became wise
              > to
              > > > the ways of meditation, I would shut off these feelings flowing
              > into
              > > > my awareness because invariably it would seem that the subject
              > matter
              > > > would have a turmoil to it that would be uncomfortable,
              > > > disconcerting, needing a way out of what came to the forefront.
              > > >
              > > > I prefer these natural ways of meditating because with a mantra,
              > > > breath watching, a candle flame, a rosary, the meditative state
              > is
              > > > occupied much of the time with the method of getting into
              > meditation,
              > > > and there is less room for the unconscious desires that are
              > mucking
              > > > up my life to come forth for resolution. There are other
              > altered
              > > > states for comparison. In a state of sexual passion, the
              > > > intellectual mind shuts down and a lot of feelings come forth
              > and at
              > > > a peak even feelings seem to shut down, but what happens is much
              > more
              > > > intense that meditation, and maybe a baby is created into a
              > loving
              > > > home. There are drugs that bring forth visions, such as LSD,
              > > > opiates, or alcohol addiction hallucinations (well, I never
              > > > experienced that), but there is no single subject that flows
              > forth
              > > > into awareness and evolves towards recognition with drug-induced
              > > > visions. Sleep brings dreams, and this is much more intense than
              > > > meditation, and if the subject matter of a dream is deliberately
              > > > remembered while meditating, the feeling brought forth is much
              > more
              > > > intense that what is normally experienced in meditation.
              > > >
              > > > It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can be
              > > > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue
              > or
              > > > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single clear
              > > > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
              > > > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above
              > mentioned
              > > > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of ones
              > own
              > > > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity
              > while
              > > > meditating for 45 minutes. If a person follows what that wisdom
              > > > tells them to do, the person eventually evolves towards what
              > > > enlightenment wisdom is and after lifetimes merges into it.
              > > >
              > > Yo Westwind,
              > > I resonate with much of what you are sharing
              > > and recognize some things that we differ about,
              > > such as the statements about dreams being "much
              > > more intense than meditation". But I think we
              > > may just have different things in mind when we
              > > use the terms we do that are meant to describe
              > > various states of consciousness. For instance,
              > > to answer 'What Meditation Is Like For Me', I feel
              > > that before meditation became an ongoing part of
              > > my life, I was in a dream-like state even when I
              > > was "awake". And nothing in that level of consciousness
              > > was really clear or "Real", much like a fetus cannot
              > > be said to be appreciating the full experience of
              > > life as a human. And with meditation, just as the new-born
              > > child can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel in
              > > a way that never was known before, the adult in
              > > us can relate to Reality in ways never before possible.
              > > In any event, I enjoy what you share and it points
              > > to beneficial concepts that are well worth
              > > meditating upon.
              > > Peace and blessings,
              > > Bob
              > >
              >
            • jogeshwarmahanta
              Thanks. May be as your experience shows you do not need. However, I will post it. regards ... three ... colorful, ... it ... perhaps, ... WHAT ...
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 2, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Thanks. May be as your experience shows you do not need. However, I
                will post it.
                regards

                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "J"
                <thebluze@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > so you must tell us what these exercises are !
                >
                > "simulated dreams/translogical exercises"
                >
                >
                > sounds very interesting ! please do go on !
                >
                > I should add, I had a profound experience in meditation today.
                >
                > I decided to do some mid morning and wound up awakening two to
                three
                > hours later. I fell into some trance dream, very intense,
                colorful,
                > joyful. when I came out of it I was filled with pleasure and joy,
                it
                > did not feel like I had been asleep, like a further journey
                perhaps,
                > but I was most renewed and rested. I have no conscious memory of
                WHAT
                > happened, just the feeling of peace and joy,
                > it was so profound, and with me the whole day.
                >
                > namaste
                > J
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In
                meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
                > <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Just I came out from the class at 11.20am imparting 2 practical
                > > exercises on simulated dreams/translogical exercises with a view
                to
                > > (1)stimulate brain cells to keep them healthy(2)prevent bad
                dreams
                > > and so on.Participants of every hue enjoy the experience.
                > > regards
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                medit8ionsociety
                > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > --- In
                > > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
                > > > <westwindwood2003@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Here is mine:
                > > > >
                > > > > I was thinking about how natural it is to meditate. In a
                > > beautiful
                > > > > rural setting, my eyes gaze upon the wonderful surroundings
                and
                > > it is
                > > > > just myself taking it in and not analyzing it. Some gardens
                are
                > > > > specifically laid out for meditation, a garden at a Zen
                temple
                > > for
                > > > > instance. The intellectual mind just stops and I am left
                with
                > > my
                > > > > feelings coming to the fore of my consciousness. At another
                > > time I
                > > > > will be doing a simple task like washing dishes and again my
                > > feelings
                > > > > and emotional propensities come into view. Before I became
                wise
                > > to
                > > > > the ways of meditation, I would shut off these feelings
                flowing
                > > into
                > > > > my awareness because invariably it would seem that the
                subject
                > > matter
                > > > > would have a turmoil to it that would be uncomfortable,
                > > > > disconcerting, needing a way out of what came to the
                forefront.
                > > > >
                > > > > I prefer these natural ways of meditating because with a
                mantra,
                > > > > breath watching, a candle flame, a rosary, the meditative
                state
                > > is
                > > > > occupied much of the time with the method of getting into
                > > meditation,
                > > > > and there is less room for the unconscious desires that are
                > > mucking
                > > > > up my life to come forth for resolution. There are other
                > > altered
                > > > > states for comparison. In a state of sexual passion, the
                > > > > intellectual mind shuts down and a lot of feelings come
                forth
                > > and at
                > > > > a peak even feelings seem to shut down, but what happens is
                much
                > > more
                > > > > intense that meditation, and maybe a baby is created into a
                > > loving
                > > > > home. There are drugs that bring forth visions, such as
                LSD,
                > > > > opiates, or alcohol addiction hallucinations (well, I never
                > > > > experienced that), but there is no single subject that flows
                > > forth
                > > > > into awareness and evolves towards recognition with drug-
                induced
                > > > > visions. Sleep brings dreams, and this is much more intense
                than
                > > > > meditation, and if the subject matter of a dream is
                deliberately
                > > > > remembered while meditating, the feeling brought forth is
                much
                > > more
                > > > > intense that what is normally experienced in meditation.
                > > > >
                > > > > It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as
                can be
                > > > > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the
                issue
                > > or
                > > > > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single
                clear
                > > > > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first
                is
                > > > > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above
                > > mentioned
                > > > > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of
                ones
                > > own
                > > > > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity
                > > while
                > > > > meditating for 45 minutes. If a person follows what that
                wisdom
                > > > > tells them to do, the person eventually evolves towards what
                > > > > enlightenment wisdom is and after lifetimes merges into it.
                > > > >
                > > > Yo Westwind,
                > > > I resonate with much of what you are sharing
                > > > and recognize some things that we differ about,
                > > > such as the statements about dreams being "much
                > > > more intense than meditation". But I think we
                > > > may just have different things in mind when we
                > > > use the terms we do that are meant to describe
                > > > various states of consciousness. For instance,
                > > > to answer 'What Meditation Is Like For Me', I feel
                > > > that before meditation became an ongoing part of
                > > > my life, I was in a dream-like state even when I
                > > > was "awake". And nothing in that level of consciousness
                > > > was really clear or "Real", much like a fetus cannot
                > > > be said to be appreciating the full experience of
                > > > life as a human. And with meditation, just as the new-born
                > > > child can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel in
                > > > a way that never was known before, the adult in
                > > > us can relate to Reality in ways never before possible.
                > > > In any event, I enjoy what you share and it points
                > > > to beneficial concepts that are well worth
                > > > meditating upon.
                > > > Peace and blessings,
                > > > Bob
                > > >
                > >
                >
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