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What is Your Meditation Like

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  • westwindwood2003
    Here is mine: I was thinking about how natural it is to meditate. In a beautiful rural setting, my eyes gaze upon the wonderful surroundings and it is just
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 23, 2008
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      Here is mine:

      I was thinking about how natural it is to meditate. In a beautiful
      rural setting, my eyes gaze upon the wonderful surroundings and it is
      just myself taking it in and not analyzing it. Some gardens are
      specifically laid out for meditation, a garden at a Zen temple for
      instance. The intellectual mind just stops and I am left with my
      feelings coming to the fore of my consciousness. At another time I
      will be doing a simple task like washing dishes and again my feelings
      and emotional propensities come into view. Before I became wise to
      the ways of meditation, I would shut off these feelings flowing into
      my awareness because invariably it would seem that the subject matter
      would have a turmoil to it that would be uncomfortable,
      disconcerting, needing a way out of what came to the forefront.

      I prefer these natural ways of meditating because with a mantra,
      breath watching, a candle flame, a rosary, the meditative state is
      occupied much of the time with the method of getting into meditation,
      and there is less room for the unconscious desires that are mucking
      up my life to come forth for resolution. There are other altered
      states for comparison. In a state of sexual passion, the
      intellectual mind shuts down and a lot of feelings come forth and at
      a peak even feelings seem to shut down, but what happens is much more
      intense that meditation, and maybe a baby is created into a loving
      home. There are drugs that bring forth visions, such as LSD,
      opiates, or alcohol addiction hallucinations (well, I never
      experienced that), but there is no single subject that flows forth
      into awareness and evolves towards recognition with drug-induced
      visions. Sleep brings dreams, and this is much more intense than
      meditation, and if the subject matter of a dream is deliberately
      remembered while meditating, the feeling brought forth is much more
      intense that what is normally experienced in meditation.

      It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can be
      dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue or
      subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single clear
      awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
      revealed to a person is much more intense than any above mentioned
      altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of ones own
      nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity while
      meditating for 45 minutes. If a person follows what that wisdom
      tells them to do, the person eventually evolves towards what
      enlightenment wisdom is and after lifetimes merges into it.
    • medit8ionsociety
      ... Yo Westwind, I resonate with much of what you are sharing and recognize some things that we differ about, such as the statements about dreams being much
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 24, 2008
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
        <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
        >
        > Here is mine:
        >
        > I was thinking about how natural it is to meditate. In a beautiful
        > rural setting, my eyes gaze upon the wonderful surroundings and it is
        > just myself taking it in and not analyzing it. Some gardens are
        > specifically laid out for meditation, a garden at a Zen temple for
        > instance. The intellectual mind just stops and I am left with my
        > feelings coming to the fore of my consciousness. At another time I
        > will be doing a simple task like washing dishes and again my feelings
        > and emotional propensities come into view. Before I became wise to
        > the ways of meditation, I would shut off these feelings flowing into
        > my awareness because invariably it would seem that the subject matter
        > would have a turmoil to it that would be uncomfortable,
        > disconcerting, needing a way out of what came to the forefront.
        >
        > I prefer these natural ways of meditating because with a mantra,
        > breath watching, a candle flame, a rosary, the meditative state is
        > occupied much of the time with the method of getting into meditation,
        > and there is less room for the unconscious desires that are mucking
        > up my life to come forth for resolution. There are other altered
        > states for comparison. In a state of sexual passion, the
        > intellectual mind shuts down and a lot of feelings come forth and at
        > a peak even feelings seem to shut down, but what happens is much more
        > intense that meditation, and maybe a baby is created into a loving
        > home. There are drugs that bring forth visions, such as LSD,
        > opiates, or alcohol addiction hallucinations (well, I never
        > experienced that), but there is no single subject that flows forth
        > into awareness and evolves towards recognition with drug-induced
        > visions. Sleep brings dreams, and this is much more intense than
        > meditation, and if the subject matter of a dream is deliberately
        > remembered while meditating, the feeling brought forth is much more
        > intense that what is normally experienced in meditation.
        >
        > It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can be
        > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue or
        > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single clear
        > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
        > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above mentioned
        > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of ones own
        > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity while
        > meditating for 45 minutes. If a person follows what that wisdom
        > tells them to do, the person eventually evolves towards what
        > enlightenment wisdom is and after lifetimes merges into it.
        >
        Yo Westwind,
        I resonate with much of what you are sharing
        and recognize some things that we differ about,
        such as the statements about dreams being "much
        more intense than meditation". But I think we
        may just have different things in mind when we
        use the terms we do that are meant to describe
        various states of consciousness. For instance,
        to answer 'What Meditation Is Like For Me', I feel
        that before meditation became an ongoing part of
        my life, I was in a dream-like state even when I
        was "awake". And nothing in that level of consciousness
        was really clear or "Real", much like a fetus cannot
        be said to be appreciating the full experience of
        life as a human. And with meditation, just as the new-born
        child can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel in
        a way that never was known before, the adult in
        us can relate to Reality in ways never before possible.
        In any event, I enjoy what you share and it points
        to beneficial concepts that are well worth
        meditating upon.
        Peace and blessings,
        Bob
      • jogeshwarmahanta
        Just I came out from the class at 11.20am imparting 2 practical exercises on simulated dreams/translogical exercises with a view to (1)stimulate brain cells to
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 24, 2008
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          Just I came out from the class at 11.20am imparting 2 practical
          exercises on simulated dreams/translogical exercises with a view to
          (1)stimulate brain cells to keep them healthy(2)prevent bad dreams
          and so on.Participants of every hue enjoy the experience.
          regards



          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
          <no_reply@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In
          meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
          > <westwindwood2003@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Here is mine:
          > >
          > > I was thinking about how natural it is to meditate. In a
          beautiful
          > > rural setting, my eyes gaze upon the wonderful surroundings and
          it is
          > > just myself taking it in and not analyzing it. Some gardens are
          > > specifically laid out for meditation, a garden at a Zen temple
          for
          > > instance. The intellectual mind just stops and I am left with
          my
          > > feelings coming to the fore of my consciousness. At another
          time I
          > > will be doing a simple task like washing dishes and again my
          feelings
          > > and emotional propensities come into view. Before I became wise
          to
          > > the ways of meditation, I would shut off these feelings flowing
          into
          > > my awareness because invariably it would seem that the subject
          matter
          > > would have a turmoil to it that would be uncomfortable,
          > > disconcerting, needing a way out of what came to the forefront.
          > >
          > > I prefer these natural ways of meditating because with a mantra,
          > > breath watching, a candle flame, a rosary, the meditative state
          is
          > > occupied much of the time with the method of getting into
          meditation,
          > > and there is less room for the unconscious desires that are
          mucking
          > > up my life to come forth for resolution. There are other
          altered
          > > states for comparison. In a state of sexual passion, the
          > > intellectual mind shuts down and a lot of feelings come forth
          and at
          > > a peak even feelings seem to shut down, but what happens is much
          more
          > > intense that meditation, and maybe a baby is created into a
          loving
          > > home. There are drugs that bring forth visions, such as LSD,
          > > opiates, or alcohol addiction hallucinations (well, I never
          > > experienced that), but there is no single subject that flows
          forth
          > > into awareness and evolves towards recognition with drug-induced
          > > visions. Sleep brings dreams, and this is much more intense than
          > > meditation, and if the subject matter of a dream is deliberately
          > > remembered while meditating, the feeling brought forth is much
          more
          > > intense that what is normally experienced in meditation.
          > >
          > > It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can be
          > > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue
          or
          > > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single clear
          > > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
          > > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above
          mentioned
          > > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of ones
          own
          > > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity
          while
          > > meditating for 45 minutes. If a person follows what that wisdom
          > > tells them to do, the person eventually evolves towards what
          > > enlightenment wisdom is and after lifetimes merges into it.
          > >
          > Yo Westwind,
          > I resonate with much of what you are sharing
          > and recognize some things that we differ about,
          > such as the statements about dreams being "much
          > more intense than meditation". But I think we
          > may just have different things in mind when we
          > use the terms we do that are meant to describe
          > various states of consciousness. For instance,
          > to answer 'What Meditation Is Like For Me', I feel
          > that before meditation became an ongoing part of
          > my life, I was in a dream-like state even when I
          > was "awake". And nothing in that level of consciousness
          > was really clear or "Real", much like a fetus cannot
          > be said to be appreciating the full experience of
          > life as a human. And with meditation, just as the new-born
          > child can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel in
          > a way that never was known before, the adult in
          > us can relate to Reality in ways never before possible.
          > In any event, I enjoy what you share and it points
          > to beneficial concepts that are well worth
          > meditating upon.
          > Peace and blessings,
          > Bob
          >
        • John Balch
          I found that when I meditate regularly, I do not have dreams, or at least if I did, I could not rememeber them at all. jogeshwarmahanta
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 25, 2008
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            I found that when I meditate regularly, I do not have dreams, or at least if I did, I could not rememeber them at all.

            jogeshwarmahanta <jogeshwarmahanta@...> wrote:
            Just I came out from the class at 11.20am imparting 2 practical
            exercises on simulated dreams/translogical exercises with a view to
            (1)stimulate brain cells to keep them healthy(2)prevent bad dreams
            and so on.Participants of every hue enjoy the experience.
            regards

            --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
            <no_reply@.. .> wrote:
            >
            > --- In
            meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, "westwindwood2003"
            > <westwindwood2003@ > wrote:
            > >
            > > Here is mine:
            > >
            > > I was thinking about how natural it is to meditate. In a
            beautiful
            > > rural setting, my eyes gaze upon the wonderful surroundings and
            it is
            > > just myself taking it in and not analyzing it. Some gardens are
            > > specifically laid out for meditation, a garden at a Zen temple
            for
            > > instance. The intellectual mind just stops and I am left with
            my
            > > feelings coming to the fore of my consciousness. At another
            time I
            > > will be doing a simple task like washing dishes and again my
            feelings
            > > and emotional propensities come into view. Before I became wise
            to
            > > the ways of meditation, I would shut off these feelings flowing
            into
            > > my awareness because invariably it would seem that the subject
            matter
            > > would have a turmoil to it that would be uncomfortable,
            > > disconcerting, needing a way out of what came to the forefront.
            > >
            > > I prefer these natural ways of meditating because with a mantra,
            > > breath watching, a candle flame, a rosary, the meditative state
            is
            > > occupied much of the time with the method of getting into
            meditation,
            > > and there is less room for the unconscious desires that are
            mucking
            > > up my life to come forth for resolution. There are other
            altered
            > > states for comparison. In a state of sexual passion, the
            > > intellectual mind shuts down and a lot of feelings come forth
            and at
            > > a peak even feelings seem to shut down, but what happens is much
            more
            > > intense that meditation, and maybe a baby is created into a
            loving
            > > home. There are drugs that bring forth visions, such as LSD,
            > > opiates, or alcohol addiction hallucinations (well, I never
            > > experienced that), but there is no single subject that flows
            forth
            > > into awareness and evolves towards recognition with drug-induced
            > > visions. Sleep brings dreams, and this is much more intense than
            > > meditation, and if the subject matter of a dream is deliberately
            > > remembered while meditating, the feeling brought forth is much
            more
            > > intense that what is normally experienced in meditation.
            > >
            > > It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can be
            > > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue
            or
            > > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single clear
            > > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
            > > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above
            mentioned
            > > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of ones
            own
            > > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity
            while
            > > meditating for 45 minutes. If a person follows what that wisdom
            > > tells them to do, the person eventually evolves towards what
            > > enlightenment wisdom is and after lifetimes merges into it.
            > >
            > Yo Westwind,
            > I resonate with much of what you are sharing
            > and recognize some things that we differ about,
            > such as the statements about dreams being "much
            > more intense than meditation". But I think we
            > may just have different things in mind when we
            > use the terms we do that are meant to describe
            > various states of consciousness. For instance,
            > to answer 'What Meditation Is Like For Me', I feel
            > that before meditation became an ongoing part of
            > my life, I was in a dream-like state even when I
            > was "awake". And nothing in that level of consciousness
            > was really clear or "Real", much like a fetus cannot
            > be said to be appreciating the full experience of
            > life as a human. And with meditation, just as the new-born
            > child can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel in
            > a way that never was known before, the adult in
            > us can relate to Reality in ways never before possible.
            > In any event, I enjoy what you share and it points
            > to beneficial concepts that are well worth
            > meditating upon.
            > Peace and blessings,
            > Bob
            >


            Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

          • Balasubramanian Radhakrishnan Kumar
            One should never be afraid of darkness. Light, howsoever small, is far more powerful than darkness howsoever big, howsoever old. In fact, darkness has no
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 25, 2008
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              One should never be afraid of darkness. Light, howsoever small, is far more powerful than darkness howsoever big, howsoever old. In fact, darkness has no power, light has power.--- OSHO 


              To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
              From: westwindwood2003@...
              Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:16:05 -0800
              Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: What is Your Meditation Like

              I found that when I meditate regularly, I do not have dreams, or at least if I did, I could not rememeber them at all.

              jogeshwarmahanta <jogeshwarmahanta@ yahoo.com> wrote:
              Just I came out from the class at 11.20am imparting 2 practical
              exercises on simulated dreams/translogical exercises with a view to
              (1)stimulate brain cells to keep them healthy(2)prevent bad dreams
              and so on.Participants of every hue enjoy the experience.
              regards

              --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, medit8ionsociety
              <no_reply@.. .> wrote:
              >
              > --- In
              meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, "westwindwood2003"
              > <westwindwood2003@ > wrote:
              > >
              > > Here is mine:
              > >
              > > I was thinking about how natural it is to meditate. In a
              beautiful
              > > rural setting, my eyes gaze upon the wonderful surroundings and
              it is
              > > just myself taking it in and not analyzing it. Some gardens are
              > > specifically laid out for meditation, a garden at a Zen temple
              for
              > > instance. The intellectual mind just stops and I am left with
              my
              > > feelings coming to the fore of my consciousness. At another
              time I
              > > will be doing a simple task like washing dishes and again my
              feelings
              > > and emotional propensities come into view. Before I became wise
              to
              > > the ways of meditation, I would shut off these feelings flowing
              into
              > > my awareness because invariably it would seem that the subject
              matter
              > > would have a turmoil to it that would be uncomfortable,
              > > disconcerting, needing a way out of what came to the forefront.
              > >
              > > I prefer these natural ways of meditating because with a mantra,
              > > breath watching, a candle flame, a rosary, the meditative state
              is
              > > occupied much of the time with the method of getting into
              meditation,
              > > and there is less room for the unconscious desires that are
              mucking
              > > up my life to come forth for resolution. There are other
              altered
              > > states for comparison. In a state of sexual passion, the
              > > intellectual mind shuts down and a lot of feelings come forth
              and at
              > > a peak even feelings seem to shut down, but what happens is much
              more
              > > intense that meditation, and maybe a baby is created into a
              loving
              > > home. There are drugs that bring forth visions, such as LSD,
              > > opiates, or alcohol addiction hallucinations (well, I never
              > > experienced that), but there is no single subject that flows
              forth
              > > into awareness and evolves towards recognition with drug-induced
              > > visions. Sleep brings dreams, and this is much more intense than
              > > meditation, and if the subject matter of a dream is deliberately
              > > remembered while meditating, the feeling brought forth is much
              more
              > > intense that what is normally experienced in meditation.
              > >
              > > It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can be
              > > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue
              or
              > > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single clear
              > > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
              > > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above
              mentioned
              > > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of ones
              own
              > > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity
              while
              > > meditating for 45 minutes. If a person follows what that wisdom
              > > tells them to do, the person eventually evolves towards what
              > > enlightenment wisdom is and after lifetimes merges into it.
              > >
              > Yo Westwind,
              > I resonate with much of what you are sharing
              > and recognize some things that we differ about,
              > such as the statements about dreams being "much
              > more intense than meditation". But I think we
              > may just have different things in mind when we
              > use the terms we do that are meant to describe
              > various states of consciousness. For instance,
              > to answer 'What Meditation Is Like For Me', I feel
              > that before meditation became an ongoing part of
              > my life, I was in a dream-like state even when I
              > was "awake". And nothing in that level of consciousness
              > was really clear or "Real", much like a fetus cannot
              > be said to be appreciating the full experience of
              > life as a human. And with meditation, just as the new-born
              > child can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel in
              > a way that never was known before, the adult in
              > us can relate to Reality in ways never before possible.
              > In any event, I enjoy what you share and it points
              > to beneficial concepts that are well worth
              > meditating upon.
              > Peace and blessings,
              > Bob
              >


              Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.




              It's about getting married. Click here! Try it!
            • jogeshwarmahanta
              The second part is correct. Dreaming is natural and normally we forget the dreams. However,quality of dreams is very important.Healthy dreams promote health
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 25, 2008
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                The second part is correct. Dreaming is natural and normally we
                forget the dreams.

                However,quality of dreams is very important.Healthy dreams promote
                health and healthy people have sweet dreams.
                regards


                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, John Balch
                <westwindwood2003@...> wrote:
                >
                > I found that when I meditate regularly, I do not have dreams, or
                at least if I did, I could not rememeber them at all.
                >
                > jogeshwarmahanta <jogeshwarmahanta@...> wrote: Just I came
                out from the class at 11.20am imparting 2 practical
                > exercises on simulated dreams/translogical exercises with a view to
                > (1)stimulate brain cells to keep them healthy(2)prevent bad dreams
                > and so on.Participants of every hue enjoy the experience.
                > regards
                >
                > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                medit8ionsociety
                > <no_reply@> wrote:
                > >
                > > --- In
                > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
                > > <westwindwood2003@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Here is mine:
                > > >
                > > > I was thinking about how natural it is to meditate. In a
                > beautiful
                > > > rural setting, my eyes gaze upon the wonderful surroundings
                and
                > it is
                > > > just myself taking it in and not analyzing it. Some gardens
                are
                > > > specifically laid out for meditation, a garden at a Zen temple
                > for
                > > > instance. The intellectual mind just stops and I am left with
                > my
                > > > feelings coming to the fore of my consciousness. At another
                > time I
                > > > will be doing a simple task like washing dishes and again my
                > feelings
                > > > and emotional propensities come into view. Before I became
                wise
                > to
                > > > the ways of meditation, I would shut off these feelings
                flowing
                > into
                > > > my awareness because invariably it would seem that the subject
                > matter
                > > > would have a turmoil to it that would be uncomfortable,
                > > > disconcerting, needing a way out of what came to the
                forefront.
                > > >
                > > > I prefer these natural ways of meditating because with a
                mantra,
                > > > breath watching, a candle flame, a rosary, the meditative
                state
                > is
                > > > occupied much of the time with the method of getting into
                > meditation,
                > > > and there is less room for the unconscious desires that are
                > mucking
                > > > up my life to come forth for resolution. There are other
                > altered
                > > > states for comparison. In a state of sexual passion, the
                > > > intellectual mind shuts down and a lot of feelings come forth
                > and at
                > > > a peak even feelings seem to shut down, but what happens is
                much
                > more
                > > > intense that meditation, and maybe a baby is created into a
                > loving
                > > > home. There are drugs that bring forth visions, such as LSD,
                > > > opiates, or alcohol addiction hallucinations (well, I never
                > > > experienced that), but there is no single subject that flows
                > forth
                > > > into awareness and evolves towards recognition with drug-
                induced
                > > > visions. Sleep brings dreams, and this is much more intense
                than
                > > > meditation, and if the subject matter of a dream is
                deliberately
                > > > remembered while meditating, the feeling brought forth is much
                > more
                > > > intense that what is normally experienced in meditation.
                > > >
                > > > It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can
                be
                > > > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue
                > or
                > > > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single
                clear
                > > > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
                > > > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above
                > mentioned
                > > > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of
                ones
                > own
                > > > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity
                > while
                > > > meditating for 45 minutes. If a person follows what that
                wisdom
                > > > tells them to do, the person eventually evolves towards what
                > > > enlightenment wisdom is and after lifetimes merges into it.
                > > >
                > > Yo Westwind,
                > > I resonate with much of what you are sharing
                > > and recognize some things that we differ about,
                > > such as the statements about dreams being "much
                > > more intense than meditation". But I think we
                > > may just have different things in mind when we
                > > use the terms we do that are meant to describe
                > > various states of consciousness. For instance,
                > > to answer 'What Meditation Is Like For Me', I feel
                > > that before meditation became an ongoing part of
                > > my life, I was in a dream-like state even when I
                > > was "awake". And nothing in that level of consciousness
                > > was really clear or "Real", much like a fetus cannot
                > > be said to be appreciating the full experience of
                > > life as a human. And with meditation, just as the new-born
                > > child can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel in
                > > a way that never was known before, the adult in
                > > us can relate to Reality in ways never before possible.
                > > In any event, I enjoy what you share and it points
                > > to beneficial concepts that are well worth
                > > meditating upon.
                > > Peace and blessings,
                > > Bob
                > >
                >
                >
                >
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              • J
                ... Dear friends...... It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can be ... I think there is a lot to that statement. I do not think there
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 1, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
                  <no_reply@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
                  > <westwindwood2003@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Here is mine:
                  > >
                  > > I was thinking about how natural it is to meditate. In a beautiful
                  > > rural setting, my eyes gaze upon the wonderful surroundings and it is
                  > > just myself taking it in and not analyzing it. Some gardens are
                  > > specifically laid out for meditation, a garden at a Zen temple for
                  > > instance. The intellectual mind just stops and I am left with my
                  > > feelings coming to the fore of my consciousness. At another time I
                  > > will be doing a simple task like washing dishes and again my feelings
                  > > and emotional propensities come into view. Before I became wise to
                  > > the ways of meditation, I would shut off these feelings flowing into
                  > > my awareness because invariably it would seem that the subject matter
                  > > would have a turmoil to it that would be uncomfortable,
                  > > disconcerting, needing a way out of what came to the forefront.
                  > >
                  > > I prefer these natural ways of meditating because with a mantra,
                  > > breath watching, a candle flame, a rosary, the meditative state is
                  > > occupied much of the time with the method of getting into meditation,
                  > > and there is less room for the unconscious desires that are mucking
                  > > up my life to come forth for resolution. There are other altered
                  > > states for comparison. In a state of sexual passion, the
                  > > intellectual mind shuts down and a lot of feelings come forth and at
                  > > a peak even feelings seem to shut down, but what happens is much more
                  > > intense that meditation, and maybe a baby is created into a loving
                  > > home. There are drugs that bring forth visions, such as LSD,
                  > > opiates, or alcohol addiction hallucinations (well, I never
                  > > experienced that), but there is no single subject that flows forth
                  > > into awareness and evolves towards recognition with drug-induced
                  > > visions. Sleep brings dreams, and this is much more intense than
                  > > meditation, and if the subject matter of a dream is deliberately
                  > > remembered while meditating, the feeling brought forth is much more
                  > > intense that what is normally experienced in meditation.
                  > >
                  > > It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can be
                  > > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue or
                  > > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single clear
                  > > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
                  > > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above mentioned
                  > > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of ones own
                  > > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity while
                  > > meditating for 45 minutes. If a person follows what that wisdom
                  > > tells them to do, the person eventually evolves towards what
                  > > enlightenment wisdom is and after lifetimes merges into it.
                  > >
                  > Yo Westwind,
                  > I resonate with much of what you are sharing
                  > and recognize some things that we differ about,
                  > such as the statements about dreams being "much
                  > more intense than meditation". But I think we
                  > may just have different things in mind when we
                  > use the terms we do that are meant to describe
                  > various states of consciousness. For instance,
                  > to answer 'What Meditation Is Like For Me', I feel
                  > that before meditation became an ongoing part of
                  > my life, I was in a dream-like state even when I
                  > was "awake". And nothing in that level of consciousness
                  > was really clear or "Real", much like a fetus cannot
                  > be said to be appreciating the full experience of
                  > life as a human. And with meditation, just as the new-born
                  > child can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel in
                  > a way that never was known before, the adult in
                  > us can relate to Reality in ways never before possible.
                  > In any event, I enjoy what you share and it points
                  > to beneficial concepts that are well worth
                  > meditating upon.
                  > Peace and blessings,
                  > Bob




                  Dear friends......

                  <i>It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can be
                  > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue or
                  > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single clear
                  > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
                  > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above mentioned
                  > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of ones own
                  > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity while
                  > meditating for 45 minutes.</i>


                  I think there is a lot to that statement. I do not think there is any
                  forcing any "jhana" or euphoric state associated with meditation.

                  Lately I would say my meditation has plateaued. I think there are
                  greater things going on to be discovered when they are to be
                  discovered. I think some of the best things are discovered on one's
                  own, with only an attitude of fearlessness, going forth in "the
                  journey". Meditation can be truly scary, when you enter states,
                  without an awareness of self, being or "ego". The herb <i> Salvia
                  Divinorum</i> is used in religious ceremonies by various cultures, and
                  produces a state where there is no "ego" and the spirit seems to
                  function "out of body" and mind. I've had some experience with this
                  "ethnogen" and the "egolessness" experienced may have assisted me in
                  attaining certain meditative states, but I think the primary element
                  responsible was simpling meditating at least twice daily, in a variety
                  of settings.

                  I started TM and yoga after I'd been jumped by three convicts on the
                  run. They assaulted me and knocked me unconscious on Halloween night.

                  Oddly the Halloween night two years before that, I had a vivid
                  nightmare about being attacked, pursued by three individuals
                  oddly like those assaulters. This was about the time I started
                  getting into dream journaling and became conscious in my dreams that I
                  was "dreaming" and could control those dreams, also known as "lucid
                  dreaming".

                  During one "lucid" moment, in a dream, when I was actually able to
                  stay asleep while being in full awareness of my dreamstate, I put a
                  hand forth, into the face of an old man walking across a rope bridge
                  towards me in some huge primeval bottomless gorge. Following my hand,
                  I tumbled forth, into this "old man" through space and mists and times
                  and ended up in what felt like some ancient civilization, sitting in a
                  meditation pose with a "teacher" sitting in front of me.

                  If meditation has taught me one thing, it is that "reality" is a
                  highly dynamic quantity and like anything "in time", it is continually
                  changing, reflecting, creating and destroying life, like there is no
                  creating and destroying, only life in spirit and spirit in life,
                  constantly morphing, flowing, creating and recreating.

                  I have had some truly profound and "psychic" experiences as the result
                  of the "dream waking" state. The level I have reached, while just
                  "resting" a few times, not "trying" to reach any state. That's a whole
                  nother story though ! 8)

                  I have had some profoundly pleasurable and frightening experiences in
                  meditation this year. Really this year is the only time I have
                  dedicated myself to twice daily meditation and I think other
                  experiences in life have led me to some really deep substantive
                  mediations. I have seen some incredible vistas. collages of shapes,
                  forms, colors. Faces of people like they are standing right in front
                  of me. I do not know who any of these people I have seen are. I have
                  known all kinds of physical sensations while meditating, some painful.
                  I've gone through what I could only consider to be "healing".

                  In these scant two months I have been meditating daily I have noticed
                  a greater feeling of power over my body or perhaps unity IN my body. I
                  have been able to reduce and in some cases totally cease chronic pain
                  I think a lot of this comes from yogic exercises in relaxing various
                  parts of my body. My thinking has changed. There is not so much "mind
                  chatter" going on before I do somethings. It's like I "intuitively" do
                  things or think of answers to problems without "thinking". I've only
                  tasted these benefits and I'm hungry for more. You know how it is with
                  this though, you can't "hunger" for it. You just have to let it be.
                  Which of course is much easier than it sounds, or is it ? 8)

                  I wrote the following after, what I would call, my first experience in
                  this deeper, more fulfilling meditation as "journey":


                  <i>January 8, 2008

                  Today, midway on my walk , I sat on the picnic bench in the park
                  to meditate. I entered a warm and lucid state, like the soft
                  core in a total and engulfing sphere. With my eyes shut, all
                  the sounds surrounding, changing, interweaving, with tens of
                  thousands of voices coming from the torrents and trickling
                  of the creek forty feet in front of me. They changed and
                  morphed into one another, always in harmony, always imperfect
                  yet pure, as we too could be. When I gently awoke, there was a
                  beautiful woman, like some sweet revelation,
                  walking by on the otherside.

                  After some alternate breathing exercises, I struck out,
                  fresh and renewed, on the trail I often take. An old
                  rotted oak had fallen by the trails head, and I thought,
                  "This is how all living things must die, from the inside out
                  not from the outside in." Then I thought how all living
                  things are spherical in nature, trillions upon trillions
                  of spheres, of every form and size, vibrating together,
                  making one huge sphere, The Earth. Then on and on,
                  planets, solar systems, and galaxies, on into infinity,
                  never point A to B, rather round and round and round.

                  On my way out of the woods, I slipped on a muddy bank.
                  I grasped the branch of an oak sapling, wiping off the
                  mud on my hands on it's dead leaves. I thought,
                  "This is how I must touch all things, with ease, gently."</i>


                  peace
                • jogeshwarmahanta
                  It depends. Whether meditation is like DWCL(Daily Wager Casual Labourer)OR like DWCL(Daily Wager Continuous Labourer). regards ...
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 1, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    It depends. Whether meditation is like DWCL(Daily Wager Casual
                    Labourer)OR like DWCL(Daily Wager Continuous Labourer).
                    regards



                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "J"
                    <thebluze@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
                    > <no_reply@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > --- In
                    meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
                    > > <westwindwood2003@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Here is mine:
                    > > >
                    > > > I was thinking about how natural it is to meditate. In a
                    beautiful
                    > > > rural setting, my eyes gaze upon the wonderful surroundings
                    and it is
                    > > > just myself taking it in and not analyzing it. Some gardens
                    are
                    > > > specifically laid out for meditation, a garden at a Zen temple
                    for
                    > > > instance. The intellectual mind just stops and I am left with
                    my
                    > > > feelings coming to the fore of my consciousness. At another
                    time I
                    > > > will be doing a simple task like washing dishes and again my
                    feelings
                    > > > and emotional propensities come into view. Before I became
                    wise to
                    > > > the ways of meditation, I would shut off these feelings
                    flowing into
                    > > > my awareness because invariably it would seem that the subject
                    matter
                    > > > would have a turmoil to it that would be uncomfortable,
                    > > > disconcerting, needing a way out of what came to the
                    forefront.
                    > > >
                    > > > I prefer these natural ways of meditating because with a
                    mantra,
                    > > > breath watching, a candle flame, a rosary, the meditative
                    state is
                    > > > occupied much of the time with the method of getting into
                    meditation,
                    > > > and there is less room for the unconscious desires that are
                    mucking
                    > > > up my life to come forth for resolution. There are other
                    altered
                    > > > states for comparison. In a state of sexual passion, the
                    > > > intellectual mind shuts down and a lot of feelings come forth
                    and at
                    > > > a peak even feelings seem to shut down, but what happens is
                    much more
                    > > > intense that meditation, and maybe a baby is created into a
                    loving
                    > > > home. There are drugs that bring forth visions, such as LSD,
                    > > > opiates, or alcohol addiction hallucinations (well, I never
                    > > > experienced that), but there is no single subject that flows
                    forth
                    > > > into awareness and evolves towards recognition with drug-
                    induced
                    > > > visions. Sleep brings dreams, and this is much more intense
                    than
                    > > > meditation, and if the subject matter of a dream is
                    deliberately
                    > > > remembered while meditating, the feeling brought forth is much
                    more
                    > > > intense that what is normally experienced in meditation.
                    > > >
                    > > > It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can
                    be
                    > > > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue
                    or
                    > > > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single
                    clear
                    > > > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
                    > > > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above
                    mentioned
                    > > > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of
                    ones own
                    > > > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity
                    while
                    > > > meditating for 45 minutes. If a person follows what that
                    wisdom
                    > > > tells them to do, the person eventually evolves towards what
                    > > > enlightenment wisdom is and after lifetimes merges into it.
                    > > >
                    > > Yo Westwind,
                    > > I resonate with much of what you are sharing
                    > > and recognize some things that we differ about,
                    > > such as the statements about dreams being "much
                    > > more intense than meditation". But I think we
                    > > may just have different things in mind when we
                    > > use the terms we do that are meant to describe
                    > > various states of consciousness. For instance,
                    > > to answer 'What Meditation Is Like For Me', I feel
                    > > that before meditation became an ongoing part of
                    > > my life, I was in a dream-like state even when I
                    > > was "awake". And nothing in that level of consciousness
                    > > was really clear or "Real", much like a fetus cannot
                    > > be said to be appreciating the full experience of
                    > > life as a human. And with meditation, just as the new-born
                    > > child can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel in
                    > > a way that never was known before, the adult in
                    > > us can relate to Reality in ways never before possible.
                    > > In any event, I enjoy what you share and it points
                    > > to beneficial concepts that are well worth
                    > > meditating upon.
                    > > Peace and blessings,
                    > > Bob
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Dear friends......
                    >
                    > <i>It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can be
                    > > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue or
                    > > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single clear
                    > > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
                    > > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above
                    mentioned
                    > > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of ones
                    own
                    > > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity while
                    > > meditating for 45 minutes.</i>
                    >
                    >
                    > I think there is a lot to that statement. I do not think there is
                    any
                    > forcing any "jhana" or euphoric state associated with meditation.
                    >
                    > Lately I would say my meditation has plateaued. I think there are
                    > greater things going on to be discovered when they are to be
                    > discovered. I think some of the best things are discovered on
                    one's
                    > own, with only an attitude of fearlessness, going forth in "the
                    > journey". Meditation can be truly scary, when you enter states,
                    > without an awareness of self, being or "ego". The herb <i> Salvia
                    > Divinorum</i> is used in religious ceremonies by various cultures,
                    and
                    > produces a state where there is no "ego" and the spirit seems to
                    > function "out of body" and mind. I've had some experience with
                    this
                    > "ethnogen" and the "egolessness" experienced may have assisted me
                    in
                    > attaining certain meditative states, but I think the primary
                    element
                    > responsible was simpling meditating at least twice daily, in a
                    variety
                    > of settings.
                    >
                    > I started TM and yoga after I'd been jumped by three convicts on
                    the
                    > run. They assaulted me and knocked me unconscious on Halloween
                    night.
                    >
                    > Oddly the Halloween night two years before that, I had a vivid
                    > nightmare about being attacked, pursued by three individuals
                    > oddly like those assaulters. This was about the time I started
                    > getting into dream journaling and became conscious in my dreams
                    that I
                    > was "dreaming" and could control those dreams, also known as "lucid
                    > dreaming".
                    >
                    > During one "lucid" moment, in a dream, when I was actually able to
                    > stay asleep while being in full awareness of my dreamstate, I put a
                    > hand forth, into the face of an old man walking across a rope
                    bridge
                    > towards me in some huge primeval bottomless gorge. Following my
                    hand,
                    > I tumbled forth, into this "old man" through space and mists and
                    times
                    > and ended up in what felt like some ancient civilization, sitting
                    in a
                    > meditation pose with a "teacher" sitting in front of me.
                    >
                    > If meditation has taught me one thing, it is that "reality" is a
                    > highly dynamic quantity and like anything "in time", it is
                    continually
                    > changing, reflecting, creating and destroying life, like there is
                    no
                    > creating and destroying, only life in spirit and spirit in life,
                    > constantly morphing, flowing, creating and recreating.
                    >
                    > I have had some truly profound and "psychic" experiences as the
                    result
                    > of the "dream waking" state. The level I have reached, while just
                    > "resting" a few times, not "trying" to reach any state. That's a
                    whole
                    > nother story though ! 8)
                    >
                    > I have had some profoundly pleasurable and frightening experiences
                    in
                    > meditation this year. Really this year is the only time I have
                    > dedicated myself to twice daily meditation and I think other
                    > experiences in life have led me to some really deep substantive
                    > mediations. I have seen some incredible vistas. collages of shapes,
                    > forms, colors. Faces of people like they are standing right in
                    front
                    > of me. I do not know who any of these people I have seen are. I
                    have
                    > known all kinds of physical sensations while meditating, some
                    painful.
                    > I've gone through what I could only consider to be "healing".
                    >
                    > In these scant two months I have been meditating daily I have
                    noticed
                    > a greater feeling of power over my body or perhaps unity IN my
                    body. I
                    > have been able to reduce and in some cases totally cease chronic
                    pain
                    > I think a lot of this comes from yogic exercises in relaxing
                    various
                    > parts of my body. My thinking has changed. There is not so
                    much "mind
                    > chatter" going on before I do somethings. It's like
                    I "intuitively" do
                    > things or think of answers to problems without "thinking". I've
                    only
                    > tasted these benefits and I'm hungry for more. You know how it is
                    with
                    > this though, you can't "hunger" for it. You just have to let it be.
                    > Which of course is much easier than it sounds, or is it ? 8)
                    >
                    > I wrote the following after, what I would call, my first
                    experience in
                    > this deeper, more fulfilling meditation as "journey":
                    >
                    >
                    > <i>January 8, 2008
                    >
                    > Today, midway on my walk , I sat on the picnic bench in the park
                    > to meditate. I entered a warm and lucid state, like the soft
                    > core in a total and engulfing sphere. With my eyes shut, all
                    > the sounds surrounding, changing, interweaving, with tens of
                    > thousands of voices coming from the torrents and trickling
                    > of the creek forty feet in front of me. They changed and
                    > morphed into one another, always in harmony, always imperfect
                    > yet pure, as we too could be. When I gently awoke, there was a
                    > beautiful woman, like some sweet revelation,
                    > walking by on the otherside.
                    >
                    > After some alternate breathing exercises, I struck out,
                    > fresh and renewed, on the trail I often take. An old
                    > rotted oak had fallen by the trails head, and I thought,
                    > "This is how all living things must die, from the inside out
                    > not from the outside in." Then I thought how all living
                    > things are spherical in nature, trillions upon trillions
                    > of spheres, of every form and size, vibrating together,
                    > making one huge sphere, The Earth. Then on and on,
                    > planets, solar systems, and galaxies, on into infinity,
                    > never point A to B, rather round and round and round.
                    >
                    > On my way out of the woods, I slipped on a muddy bank.
                    > I grasped the branch of an oak sapling, wiping off the
                    > mud on my hands on it's dead leaves. I thought,
                    > "This is how I must touch all things, with ease, gently."</i>
                    >
                    >
                    > peace
                    >
                  • J
                    so you must tell us what these exercises are ! simulated dreams/translogical exercises sounds very interesting ! please do go on ! I should add, I had a
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 1, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      so you must tell us what these exercises are !

                      "simulated dreams/translogical exercises"


                      sounds very interesting ! please do go on !

                      I should add, I had a profound experience in meditation today.

                      I decided to do some mid morning and wound up awakening two to three
                      hours later. I fell into some trance dream, very intense, colorful,
                      joyful. when I came out of it I was filled with pleasure and joy, it
                      did not feel like I had been asleep, like a further journey perhaps,
                      but I was most renewed and rested. I have no conscious memory of WHAT
                      happened, just the feeling of peace and joy,
                      it was so profound, and with me the whole day.

                      namaste
                      J



                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
                      <jogeshwarmahanta@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Just I came out from the class at 11.20am imparting 2 practical
                      > exercises on simulated dreams/translogical exercises with a view to
                      > (1)stimulate brain cells to keep them healthy(2)prevent bad dreams
                      > and so on.Participants of every hue enjoy the experience.
                      > regards
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
                      > <no_reply@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > --- In
                      > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
                      > > <westwindwood2003@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Here is mine:
                      > > >
                      > > > I was thinking about how natural it is to meditate. In a
                      > beautiful
                      > > > rural setting, my eyes gaze upon the wonderful surroundings and
                      > it is
                      > > > just myself taking it in and not analyzing it. Some gardens are
                      > > > specifically laid out for meditation, a garden at a Zen temple
                      > for
                      > > > instance. The intellectual mind just stops and I am left with
                      > my
                      > > > feelings coming to the fore of my consciousness. At another
                      > time I
                      > > > will be doing a simple task like washing dishes and again my
                      > feelings
                      > > > and emotional propensities come into view. Before I became wise
                      > to
                      > > > the ways of meditation, I would shut off these feelings flowing
                      > into
                      > > > my awareness because invariably it would seem that the subject
                      > matter
                      > > > would have a turmoil to it that would be uncomfortable,
                      > > > disconcerting, needing a way out of what came to the forefront.
                      > > >
                      > > > I prefer these natural ways of meditating because with a mantra,
                      > > > breath watching, a candle flame, a rosary, the meditative state
                      > is
                      > > > occupied much of the time with the method of getting into
                      > meditation,
                      > > > and there is less room for the unconscious desires that are
                      > mucking
                      > > > up my life to come forth for resolution. There are other
                      > altered
                      > > > states for comparison. In a state of sexual passion, the
                      > > > intellectual mind shuts down and a lot of feelings come forth
                      > and at
                      > > > a peak even feelings seem to shut down, but what happens is much
                      > more
                      > > > intense that meditation, and maybe a baby is created into a
                      > loving
                      > > > home. There are drugs that bring forth visions, such as LSD,
                      > > > opiates, or alcohol addiction hallucinations (well, I never
                      > > > experienced that), but there is no single subject that flows
                      > forth
                      > > > into awareness and evolves towards recognition with drug-induced
                      > > > visions. Sleep brings dreams, and this is much more intense than
                      > > > meditation, and if the subject matter of a dream is deliberately
                      > > > remembered while meditating, the feeling brought forth is much
                      > more
                      > > > intense that what is normally experienced in meditation.
                      > > >
                      > > > It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as can be
                      > > > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the issue
                      > or
                      > > > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single clear
                      > > > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first is
                      > > > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above
                      > mentioned
                      > > > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of ones
                      > own
                      > > > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity
                      > while
                      > > > meditating for 45 minutes. If a person follows what that wisdom
                      > > > tells them to do, the person eventually evolves towards what
                      > > > enlightenment wisdom is and after lifetimes merges into it.
                      > > >
                      > > Yo Westwind,
                      > > I resonate with much of what you are sharing
                      > > and recognize some things that we differ about,
                      > > such as the statements about dreams being "much
                      > > more intense than meditation". But I think we
                      > > may just have different things in mind when we
                      > > use the terms we do that are meant to describe
                      > > various states of consciousness. For instance,
                      > > to answer 'What Meditation Is Like For Me', I feel
                      > > that before meditation became an ongoing part of
                      > > my life, I was in a dream-like state even when I
                      > > was "awake". And nothing in that level of consciousness
                      > > was really clear or "Real", much like a fetus cannot
                      > > be said to be appreciating the full experience of
                      > > life as a human. And with meditation, just as the new-born
                      > > child can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel in
                      > > a way that never was known before, the adult in
                      > > us can relate to Reality in ways never before possible.
                      > > In any event, I enjoy what you share and it points
                      > > to beneficial concepts that are well worth
                      > > meditating upon.
                      > > Peace and blessings,
                      > > Bob
                      > >
                      >
                    • jogeshwarmahanta
                      Thanks. May be as your experience shows you do not need. However, I will post it. regards ... three ... colorful, ... it ... perhaps, ... WHAT ...
                      Message 10 of 10 , Mar 2, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Thanks. May be as your experience shows you do not need. However, I
                        will post it.
                        regards

                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "J"
                        <thebluze@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > so you must tell us what these exercises are !
                        >
                        > "simulated dreams/translogical exercises"
                        >
                        >
                        > sounds very interesting ! please do go on !
                        >
                        > I should add, I had a profound experience in meditation today.
                        >
                        > I decided to do some mid morning and wound up awakening two to
                        three
                        > hours later. I fell into some trance dream, very intense,
                        colorful,
                        > joyful. when I came out of it I was filled with pleasure and joy,
                        it
                        > did not feel like I had been asleep, like a further journey
                        perhaps,
                        > but I was most renewed and rested. I have no conscious memory of
                        WHAT
                        > happened, just the feeling of peace and joy,
                        > it was so profound, and with me the whole day.
                        >
                        > namaste
                        > J
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In
                        meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
                        > <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Just I came out from the class at 11.20am imparting 2 practical
                        > > exercises on simulated dreams/translogical exercises with a view
                        to
                        > > (1)stimulate brain cells to keep them healthy(2)prevent bad
                        dreams
                        > > and so on.Participants of every hue enjoy the experience.
                        > > regards
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
                        medit8ionsociety
                        > > <no_reply@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In
                        > > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "westwindwood2003"
                        > > > <westwindwood2003@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Here is mine:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I was thinking about how natural it is to meditate. In a
                        > > beautiful
                        > > > > rural setting, my eyes gaze upon the wonderful surroundings
                        and
                        > > it is
                        > > > > just myself taking it in and not analyzing it. Some gardens
                        are
                        > > > > specifically laid out for meditation, a garden at a Zen
                        temple
                        > > for
                        > > > > instance. The intellectual mind just stops and I am left
                        with
                        > > my
                        > > > > feelings coming to the fore of my consciousness. At another
                        > > time I
                        > > > > will be doing a simple task like washing dishes and again my
                        > > feelings
                        > > > > and emotional propensities come into view. Before I became
                        wise
                        > > to
                        > > > > the ways of meditation, I would shut off these feelings
                        flowing
                        > > into
                        > > > > my awareness because invariably it would seem that the
                        subject
                        > > matter
                        > > > > would have a turmoil to it that would be uncomfortable,
                        > > > > disconcerting, needing a way out of what came to the
                        forefront.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I prefer these natural ways of meditating because with a
                        mantra,
                        > > > > breath watching, a candle flame, a rosary, the meditative
                        state
                        > > is
                        > > > > occupied much of the time with the method of getting into
                        > > meditation,
                        > > > > and there is less room for the unconscious desires that are
                        > > mucking
                        > > > > up my life to come forth for resolution. There are other
                        > > altered
                        > > > > states for comparison. In a state of sexual passion, the
                        > > > > intellectual mind shuts down and a lot of feelings come
                        forth
                        > > and at
                        > > > > a peak even feelings seem to shut down, but what happens is
                        much
                        > > more
                        > > > > intense that meditation, and maybe a baby is created into a
                        > > loving
                        > > > > home. There are drugs that bring forth visions, such as
                        LSD,
                        > > > > opiates, or alcohol addiction hallucinations (well, I never
                        > > > > experienced that), but there is no single subject that flows
                        > > forth
                        > > > > into awareness and evolves towards recognition with drug-
                        induced
                        > > > > visions. Sleep brings dreams, and this is much more intense
                        than
                        > > > > meditation, and if the subject matter of a dream is
                        deliberately
                        > > > > remembered while meditating, the feeling brought forth is
                        much
                        > > more
                        > > > > intense that what is normally experienced in meditation.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > It seems for me that meditation only brings up as much as
                        can be
                        > > > > dealt with and after meditating for about 45 minutes the
                        issue
                        > > or
                        > > > > subject that came up in meditation resolves into a single
                        clear
                        > > > > awareness of the problem. Now enlightenment when it first
                        is
                        > > > > revealed to a person is much more intense than any above
                        > > mentioned
                        > > > > altered states and from enlightenment flows a wisdom not of
                        ones
                        > > own
                        > > > > nature about what to do with the issue that came to clarity
                        > > while
                        > > > > meditating for 45 minutes. If a person follows what that
                        wisdom
                        > > > > tells them to do, the person eventually evolves towards what
                        > > > > enlightenment wisdom is and after lifetimes merges into it.
                        > > > >
                        > > > Yo Westwind,
                        > > > I resonate with much of what you are sharing
                        > > > and recognize some things that we differ about,
                        > > > such as the statements about dreams being "much
                        > > > more intense than meditation". But I think we
                        > > > may just have different things in mind when we
                        > > > use the terms we do that are meant to describe
                        > > > various states of consciousness. For instance,
                        > > > to answer 'What Meditation Is Like For Me', I feel
                        > > > that before meditation became an ongoing part of
                        > > > my life, I was in a dream-like state even when I
                        > > > was "awake". And nothing in that level of consciousness
                        > > > was really clear or "Real", much like a fetus cannot
                        > > > be said to be appreciating the full experience of
                        > > > life as a human. And with meditation, just as the new-born
                        > > > child can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel in
                        > > > a way that never was known before, the adult in
                        > > > us can relate to Reality in ways never before possible.
                        > > > In any event, I enjoy what you share and it points
                        > > > to beneficial concepts that are well worth
                        > > > meditating upon.
                        > > > Peace and blessings,
                        > > > Bob
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
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