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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Enlightenment or Grace

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  • Jeff Belyea
    ... meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sandeep chatterjee ... existence of the mind. ... the moment, moment to moment will get me such and such,
    Message 1 of 35 , Feb 14, 2008
      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sandeep chatterjee
      <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote: --- In
      meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sandeep chatterjee
      > <sandeep1960@> wrote:
      >
      > > Changing mulberry bushes, does not cease the running
      > > around.
      >
      > This true, but it is through
      > the running around, and finding
      > of just the right mulberry bush
      > in just the right light that
      > entices the mind to cease running
      > and conceptualizing.
      > ------------
      > The mind can never cease running or conceptualizing.
      > The very presence of the sense of conceptualizing... infers the
      existence of the mind.
      > The very sense that such and such act which may be enfolding as
      the moment, moment to moment will get "me" such and such, infers the
      existence of the "me".
      > The very presence of a sense of enticement, no matter about
      what..........is the sense of the mind.
      > The very presence of a sense of a stake (and enticement is
      nothing but a stake), no matter about what..........is the sense of
      the mind.
      > Thus the mind can never know or experience the state (so to say)
      of the absence of the presence of conceptualizing.
      > And thus the state...........(to use a mere term)..
      > . of the absence of the presence of conceptualizing and the
      absence of this very absence.....
      > .....has no cognition of a mind........... let alone a mind to
      be enticed to cease.
      >
      > Awakened....
      > ......there is nothing which is not already awakened.
      > Nor is there anything which is awakened either.
      >
      > And yet this post as a pointing over cyber space..........
      happens.
      >

      Ah, the Sandeep shuffle, once again.

      No sale. The mind can and does
      stop conceptualizing just before
      the leap into another realm
      of consciousness previously
      unknown and therefore not
      subject to conceptualizing.

      Relating the leap requires
      nondual languge, but that
      does not negate the holistic
      reality of the leap into
      Christ or Krisna or
      Cosmic Consciousness.

      The mind that can and does stop
      conceptualizing, as in "trance
      ending" nevertheless "experiences"
      another level of consciousness
      commonly called awakening (or
      enlightenment) on the other side
      of the stillpoint - the moment
      before stillpoint is the entrance
      into what Buddhist call the
      emptiness that is (soon) not
      nothing.

      The monkey trap is to view
      or espouse that the mind can
      never stop conceptualizing
      and that there is nothing other
      than linear process of mind.

      This is not true. The realm
      in which neither time
      nor space (nor awakening or
      one to awaken) exists is not
      comprehended by the thinking
      mind, but is accessible to
      through the still mind - the
      entrance to enlightenment -
      the logos of our being - the I-I
      (to use Ramana's term).

      The advaita shuffle of no
      awakening and no one to awaken -
      or the ever popular, "there
      is nothing ot realize, and
      you just have to realize
      that." speaks only to the
      linear mind - inappropriately.
      The linear mind does not
      follw this, and the internal
      "clank" of this doesn't
      compute goes off.

      The mind, or consciousness
      beyond linear mind, does
      comprehend this...but only
      after awakening.

      Fundamentalist advaitans
      enjoy befuddling. Awakened
      non-dualists allow for the
      transition from duality
      to nonduality.

      Teachings from the Mulberry Bush
      which does not exist, but which
      we nevertheless enjoy running around.

      Jeff
    • sandeep chatterjee
      Yes. However since even the state of deep sleep is a durational occurrence, it is also within the gestalt of time. The state of deep sleep has a start and an
      Message 35 of 35 , Feb 14, 2008
        Yes.
        However since even the state of deep sleep is a durational occurrence, it is also within the gestalt of time.
        The state of deep sleep has a start and an end.

        That which is trancendental to even the state of deep sleep is.....

        yeshwanthi vasudevan wrote:
        > But Sandeep, isn't that like a deep-sleep state. While I'am asleep (in deep-sleep) there is no form, identity or any past, present or future related to that identity of "me", while I'am in a deep-sleep.   While I'am in a deep sleep, there is no "me" to be aware of the fact that there is no "me" (along with all the baggage that the "me" carries with itself, such as form, identity, past, present future etc).    In other words, while I'am in a deep sleep, I don't even know if I'am alive or dead.   sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@ yahoo.com> wrote: Jeff Belyea <jeff@mindgoal. com> wrote: --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@ ...> wrote: > Changing mulberry bushes, does not cease the running > around. This true, but it is through the running around, and finding of just the right mulberry bush in just the right light that entices the mind to cease running and
        conceptualizing. ------------ The mind can never cease running or conceptualizing. The very presence of the sense of conceptualizing. .. infers the existence of the
        > mind. The very sense that such and such act which may be enfolding as the moment, moment to moment will get "me" such and such, infers the existence of the "me". The very presence of a sense of enticement, no matter about what........ ..is the sense of the mind. The very presence of a sense of a stake (and enticement is nothing but a stake), no matter about what........ ..is the sense of the mind. Thus the mind can never know or experience the state (so to say) of the absence of the presence of conceptualizing. And thus the state....... ....(to use a mere term).. . of the absence of the presence of conceptualizing and the absence of this very absence..... .....has no cognition of a mind........ ... let alone a mind  to be enticed to cease.   Awakened.... ......there is nothing which is not already
        > awakened. Nor is there anything which is awakened either.   And yet this post as a pointing over cyber space....... ... happens.   .
        > Now you can chat without downloading messenger. Click here to know how.
        >
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