Re: [Meditation Society of America] Enlightenment or Grace
- --- westwindwood2003 <westwindwood2003@...>
> > Witness, surrender all effort, and fill with thisThe term "gift" has been used to point that there is
> most precious
> gift of Grace.
> Enlightenment is a gift.
no casual linkage.
That it is not an end destination of a process
happening in time.
> One-day enlightenment justThere is an "I" still left to wonder whether it
> happened and I
> cannot say I deserved it or had any idea of what I
> was getting into.
deserved or not?
To wonder what is being got into?
> Someone told me that while in a state ofA "blanked mind" needs someone to note and conclude of
> concentration that is with
> the calculating mind bored and so shut down, just
> make my mind blank
> and this would be meditation.
the blanked mind.
Meditation is not the blanking of the mind, for the
blanking of the mind is more mind-stuff.
Meditation is cessation of all conceptualizing,
including the conceptualizing of a mind which needs to
Including even the conceptualizing of something as a
state of meditation, which can be achieved, attained,
obtained, experienced, related to, defined, explained
benefited from.... et al.
Further, since the "end of conceptualizing" is yet
...The absence of the presence of conceptualizing AND
the absence of the absence of the presence of
> I found out laterThere has been some posts recently on the danger of
> that this is the
> intellectual approach to enlightenment and is
> considered dangerous
> compared to the devotional approach, which is not
meditation and the correct way etc etc.
There is nothing as danger.
For there is nothing as inappropriate in Life.
Yes, actions bring consequences.
But whatever be the state of this moment, could not
have been any different to what it is, for all the
Shivas on Mount Kailash.
So in playfullness, explore.... knowing in childlike
innocence, that there is nothing which can happen
which was not meant to be as so.
If there is a sense of discomfort or dis-ease, cease
whetver is casuing the discomfort.
Or boldly dive further into the discomfort.
All the nonsense of posed dangers with paths or the
incorrect doings in such paths are mere clever devices
to atttract and build a fan club.
After all the mind is least interested in something
which is safe and boring.
There has to be a hint of danger, to attract.
And with the suggestion of the danger, is the birth of
the "expert", the "Guru", without whom you will go mad
See through the con job.
> TheThe >devotional approach is God's will
> intellectual approach is considered dangerous
> because one can be distracted by occult powers.
If everything is God's will, "getting distracted by
occult powers, or an attractive male/female specimen
walking by " is not God's will?
> be done and offering up some particular desire foundThe need to let go of a desire is yet another desire.
> at this point in
> my development, like what do I do God with this
> craving I am
> experiencing right now? How do I proceed with this
> problem? It's a
> letting go of an ego driven desire I am
> experiencing. Then God gives
> a direct answer, it just comes into the mind. The
> blank mind
> approach is a ceasing of the bubbling up of the ego
> driven desire or
> problem into the consciousness. In each of these
> two approaches to
> enlightenment, there is a letting go of this desire.
Thus a cul de sac.
Round and round the same mulberry bush.
Desire is an arising thought with maybe an associated
senstation in the body-mind complex.
Which disipates in time.
There is no issue whatsover with an arising thought,
any arising thought.
The issue with an arising thought arises with the
sense of a stake associated with the arising thought.
For whom is this sense of a stake?
For whom are approaches to enlightenment, of
For whom is the very concept of something like
"enlightenment" of relevance, of interest?
>It is an experience to which, a relating is possible.
> Now this relationship with the enlightenment process
> goes on for a
> few decades, the giving up, and eventually all the
> cravings dissolve,
> burn up, and become nothing.
Relating in the sense of able to define, refine,
describe, concretize, expand, amplify etc.
An experience, any experience... having a duration of
maybe minutes or maybe of a thousand years, is a
durational occurrance in time and no matter how
profound or profane...
... is mind stuff.
That to which no relating is possible, for there is
none separated......left to relate...
...that is neither an occurrence,
nor a non-occurrence.
> If you want a goodAs soon as time is accepted to be a reality and thus
> description of this,
> read The Dark Night of the Soul by Saint John of the
> Cross. He got
> the material from Jewish mysticism, by the way. Now
> a little hint
> here, Dark Night does not mean a hard time is in
> store. Rather it
> means that ones desires are extinguished and dark
> means there is
> nothing left to desire. Dark means craving is gone.
> At this point
> meditation shifts and one slowly takes on the nature
> of God and again
> this takes decades, or maybe it is lifetimes. I am
> not sure about
> how long this takes. Maybe it does not matter how
> long it takes as
> long as the journey eventually ends.
concepts of journey, end-destinations, the traveler to
traverse the journey etc etc....
....mind has been birthed,
the separative, individuated entity is birthed.
For this sense of the entity, it is only round and
round the mulberry bush.
Changing mulberry bushes, does not cease the running
However since even the state of deep sleep is a durational occurrence, it is also within the gestalt of time.
The state of deep sleep has a start and an end.
That which is trancendental to even the state of deep sleep is.....
yeshwanthi vasudevan wrote:
> But Sandeep, isn't that like a deep-sleep state. While I'am asleep (in deep-sleep) there is no form, identity or any past, present or future related to that identity of "me", while I'am in a deep-sleep. While I'am in a deep sleep, there is no "me" to be aware of the fact that there is no "me" (along with all the baggage that the "me" carries with itself, such as form, identity, past, present future etc). In other words, while I'am in a deep sleep, I don't even know if I'am alive or dead. sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@ yahoo.com> wrote: Jeff Belyea <jeff@mindgoal. com> wrote: --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , sandeep chatterjee <sandeep1960@ ...> wrote: > Changing mulberry bushes, does not cease the running > around. This true, but it is through the running around, and finding of just the right mulberry bush in just the right light that entices the mind to cease running andconceptualizing. ------------ The mind can never cease running or conceptualizing. The very presence of the sense of conceptualizing. .. infers the existence of the
> mind. The very sense that such and such act which may be enfolding as the moment, moment to moment will get "me" such and such, infers the existence of the "me". The very presence of a sense of enticement, no matter about what........ ..is the sense of the mind. The very presence of a sense of a stake (and enticement is nothing but a stake), no matter about what........ ..is the sense of the mind. Thus the mind can never know or experience the state (so to say) of the absence of the presence of conceptualizing. And thus the state....... ....(to use a mere term).. . of the absence of the presence of conceptualizing and the absence of this very absence..... .....has no cognition of a mind........ ... let alone a mind to be enticed to cease. Awakened.... ......there is nothing which is not already
> awakened. Nor is there anything which is awakened either. And yet this post as a pointing over cyber space....... ... happens. .
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