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Re: THE SAGE'S VIEW OF THE WORLD

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  • judirhodes <judirhodes@zianet.com>
    ... ********* There is no separate reality Jeff, this is it, and any ideas of joy or whatever are merely your personal feelings and interpreations, your
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 1, 2003
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea
      <jeff@m...>" <jeff@m...> wrote:
      > Thanks, Bob. Beautiful satsang from Sivananda.
      > The sense of two worlds and especially the
      > two languages resonate clearly.
      >
      > So often, religious admonition to live by
      > a certain code or set of rituals, and even
      > the claim to exclusivity, is based on
      > the new language wrongly interpreted as
      > relative to the physical world and then
      > "taught" by those who do not know of what
      > they speak. These are the false prophets
      > so often warned about by Jesus (and Judi).
      >
      > Awakened teachers speaking of the results
      > of their new perceptions of a separate reality
      > in which a perfect joy, perfect love and perfect
      > harmony can be known intuitively, are speaking
      > from experiential knowledge and understanding.
      >
      ********* There is no separate reality Jeff, this is it, and any
      ideas of "joy" or whatever are merely your "personal" feelings and
      interpreations, your "experience". Whereas understanding itself is
      completely and utterly "impersonal". And that is why understanding
      is NOT and can never be an "experience". In order for there to be
      an "experience" *you* have to be there. Understanding undermines ALL
      experience. A lot of people have had experiential moments of
      openness, la-la-la, as you obviously have, but understanding
      undermines all of that - the *you* that's having your "precious"
      experience and puts it all to rest. In my own case, starting in my
      20's I had many experiences of openness and so-called "blow out"
      experiences, some with some degree of understanding with them. But
      all that comes to end, when that whole "adventure" is "uprooted" and
      *finally* seen for the nonsense that it is - an "experiential
      adventure", which is either suffered OR enjoyed. In other words, I
      now laugh in the face of bliss. I laugh at it all. There is now only
      freedom, and I am it. And so are you, but you persist in holding on
      to your "experience" as though there's something "wunnerful" about
      it. :-) Does "ego" have any relevance here?

      Judi
    • judirhodes <judirhodes@zianet.com>
      ... only ... ****** I know how desperately you want to be a teacher , whatever sort of egotistical nonsense THAT is? I suggest you stick to teaching the
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 1, 2003
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        > *finally* seen for the nonsense that it is - an "experiential
        > adventure", which is either suffered OR enjoyed. In other words, I
        > now laugh in the face of bliss. I laugh at it all. There is now
        only
        > freedom, and I am it. And so are you, but you persist in holding on
        > to your "experience" as though there's something "wunnerful" about
        > it. :-) Does "ego" have any relevance here?
        >
        > Judi

        ****** I know how desperately you want to be a "teacher", whatever
        sort of egotistical nonsense THAT is? I suggest you stick
        to "teaching" the piano. Now you might consider me a "teacher"
        because I'm telling you to knock the hell it off! Your "slip" is
        showing. I'm not a teacher, I'm your friend. You should learn the
        difference.

        Judi
      • judirhodes <judirhodes@zianet.com>
        ... ******* The bottom line here Jeff and for the rest of you peddlers trying to push some product of which there is none! Your product is nothing but
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 1, 2003
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          >
          > ****** I know how desperately you want to be a "teacher", whatever
          > sort of egotistical nonsense THAT is? I suggest you stick
          > to "teaching" the piano. Now you might consider me a "teacher"
          > because I'm telling you to knock the hell it off! Your "slip" is
          > showing. I'm not a teacher, I'm your friend. You should learn the
          > difference.
          >
          > Judi

          ******* The bottom line here Jeff and for the rest of you "peddlers"
          trying to push some "product" of which there is none! Your "product"
          is nothing but your own infatuation, your own ego.

          Judi
        • judirhodes <judirhodes@zianet.com>
          ... you peddlers ... Your product ... ******** And if you guys can t see that, heaven help us all! I d rather hang with a goddamn used car salesman than to
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 1, 2003
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            >
            > ******* The bottom line here Jeff and for the rest of
            you "peddlers"
            > trying to push some "product" of which there is none!
            Your "product"
            > is nothing but your own infatuation, your own ego.
            >
            > Judi

            ******** And if you guys can't see that, heaven help us all!
            I'd rather hang with a goddamn used car salesman than to look at the
            likes of you "teachers" and "gurus".

            Judi
          • Jeff Belyea <jeff@mindgoal.com>
            Sweet friend, Judi - Can you possibly keep your slasher tongue in its holster long enough to read more than one sentence? Your self-contradiction is showing
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 1, 2003
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              Sweet friend, Judi -

              Can you possibly keep your
              slasher tongue in its holster
              long enough to read more
              than one sentence? Your
              self-contradiction is
              showing all over the place.
              You say it's not joy, but you call
              it pure joy. It's not experience
              but you call it a new
              perceptual condition.
              New is necessarily experiential,
              perception is experiential -
              understanding is experiential.
              Semantic hair-splitting
              just to be an antagonist
              is your tiresome game.

              And speaking of place, this
              really isn't the place for this,
              but I'm tired of stepping
              in your smelly bullshit
              everywhere I go...and I want
              a shoot out, Rocky.

              Go ahead and run back to the ranch.
              I'll be on your trail. I don't
              like your style, but I grew
              up with people who walked it
              and talked it, and I'm willing
              and able to stand my ground
              against your bluster, buster.

              I guess you don't have enough
              to rant about at the ranch.
              You got an extra bunk?.
              You didn't run me off, you
              invited me back "anytime".
              Still a standing invitation?
              You'll have your boys there.

              I left because your juvenile boys
              grew ridiculously boring.
              They didn't scare me off, my
              side was hurting from laughing
              at their naivety, pompous parroting,
              and pitiful pandering to you.
              You talk about others wanting fawning
              disciples. What do you have at
              the ranch? They got nothing.
              Less than Snarlo's Guru Raters,
              even.

              And get real, you jumped around
              like a tenderfoot with someone
              shooting at her feet when my
              inquiries got too hot.

              You, I challenge to duel...
              Hot-Air filled Cream puffs
              at 50 paces. That's about
              all you got other than
              a bundt pan.

              Still reading?...

              On July 21, 1975 at about
              9:30am my life changed, a
              door opened. It was not a flash,
              not a la la la moment, it was a
              permanent shift of identity,
              a new awareness of a reality
              that I had been separated
              from - a separate reality -
              until known, a new overriding
              current running through my every
              conscious moment from that
              moment on. And it was and is
              blissful, peaceful beyond
              understanding, and full of joy.
              Still is.Doesn't mean I don't have
              a bold and bad-ass ego, or
              that I run from a scrap.

              Not all sages are milquetoasts,
              the best of them have been
              known to fashion a whip and
              crack a few heads.

              Whatever I choose to call
              my awakening experience
              cannot be negated by your
              constant carping. Its wasted.
              The person who entered
              the meditation center,
              after 24 years of seeking,
              never left. He ceased to exit.
              (Sound familiar?)

              So you don't subscribe to
              the Boddisattva vow? I do.
              I took it. I honor it.

              Your shots at my ego
              are in vain. I grin
              and bear it, because I don't
              miss the wry smile behind
              all your seeming ferocity.

              But for the sake of
              those who are here
              for inquiry...

              Can't you ever just shut
              the fuck up, and let someone
              speak without whacking them on
              the head with your tight-ass,
              self-righteous, know-it-all
              table of the Judi commandments?

              Your need to straighten
              out all the error you
              see in everyone else
              might have something to
              do with the ego you
              consistently see
              all around you.

              Rude enough to win
              you over?

              Your blissed out bawdy friend,

              Jeff

              PS: My apologies to the gentle folks here
              for this evening's R-Rated entertainment.
              Somewhere there's a lesson here.I'm going
              to go see what's cookin' at the ranch.
            • judirhodes <judirhodes@zianet.com>
              Aha! Struck a nerve did I? Well there you have it. Sure, come on over the ranch, I m not the only one who can see through your pink experiential panties .
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 1, 2003
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                Aha! Struck a nerve did I? Well there you have it.
                Sure, come on over the ranch, I'm not the only one who can see
                through your "pink experiential panties". :-)

                Judi



                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea
                <jeff@m...>" <jeff@m...> wrote:
                > Sweet friend, Judi -
                >
                > Can you possibly keep your
                > slasher tongue in its holster
                > long enough to read more
                > than one sentence? Your
                > self-contradiction is
                > showing all over the place.
                > You say it's not joy, but you call
                > it pure joy. It's not experience
                > but you call it a new
                > perceptual condition.
                > New is necessarily experiential,
                > perception is experiential -
                > understanding is experiential.
                > Semantic hair-splitting
                > just to be an antagonist
                > is your tiresome game.
                >
                > And speaking of place, this
                > really isn't the place for this,
                > but I'm tired of stepping
                > in your smelly bullshit
                > everywhere I go...and I want
                > a shoot out, Rocky.
                >
                > Go ahead and run back to the ranch.
                > I'll be on your trail. I don't
                > like your style, but I grew
                > up with people who walked it
                > and talked it, and I'm willing
                > and able to stand my ground
                > against your bluster, buster.
                >
                > I guess you don't have enough
                > to rant about at the ranch.
                > You got an extra bunk?.
                > You didn't run me off, you
                > invited me back "anytime".
                > Still a standing invitation?
                > You'll have your boys there.
                >
                > I left because your juvenile boys
                > grew ridiculously boring.
                > They didn't scare me off, my
                > side was hurting from laughing
                > at their naivety, pompous parroting,
                > and pitiful pandering to you.
                > You talk about others wanting fawning
                > disciples. What do you have at
                > the ranch? They got nothing.
                > Less than Snarlo's Guru Raters,
                > even.
                >
                > And get real, you jumped around
                > like a tenderfoot with someone
                > shooting at her feet when my
                > inquiries got too hot.
                >
                > You, I challenge to duel...
                > Hot-Air filled Cream puffs
                > at 50 paces. That's about
                > all you got other than
                > a bundt pan.
                >
                > Still reading?...
                >
                > On July 21, 1975 at about
                > 9:30am my life changed, a
                > door opened. It was not a flash,
                > not a la la la moment, it was a
                > permanent shift of identity,
                > a new awareness of a reality
                > that I had been separated
                > from - a separate reality -
                > until known, a new overriding
                > current running through my every
                > conscious moment from that
                > moment on. And it was and is
                > blissful, peaceful beyond
                > understanding, and full of joy.
                > Still is.Doesn't mean I don't have
                > a bold and bad-ass ego, or
                > that I run from a scrap.
                >
                > Not all sages are milquetoasts,
                > the best of them have been
                > known to fashion a whip and
                > crack a few heads.
                >
                > Whatever I choose to call
                > my awakening experience
                > cannot be negated by your
                > constant carping. Its wasted.
                > The person who entered
                > the meditation center,
                > after 24 years of seeking,
                > never left. He ceased to exit.
                > (Sound familiar?)
                >
                > So you don't subscribe to
                > the Boddisattva vow? I do.
                > I took it. I honor it.
                >
                > Your shots at my ego
                > are in vain. I grin
                > and bear it, because I don't
                > miss the wry smile behind
                > all your seeming ferocity.
                >
                > But for the sake of
                > those who are here
                > for inquiry...
                >
                > Can't you ever just shut
                > the fuck up, and let someone
                > speak without whacking them on
                > the head with your tight-ass,
                > self-righteous, know-it-all
                > table of the Judi commandments?
                >
                > Your need to straighten
                > out all the error you
                > see in everyone else
                > might have something to
                > do with the ego you
                > consistently see
                > all around you.
                >
                > Rude enough to win
                > you over?
                >
                > Your blissed out bawdy friend,
                >
                > Jeff
                >
                > PS: My apologies to the gentle folks here
                > for this evening's R-Rated entertainment.
                > Somewhere there's a lesson here.I'm going
                > to go see what's cookin' at the ranch.
              • tosime
                I keep seeing the word Ranch . What is it? Is it another group? Where is it? What happens there? Are we all invited? ...Tony
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 1, 2003
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                  I keep seeing the word "Ranch". What is it?

                  Is it another group?
                  Where is it?
                  What happens there?

                  Are we all invited?


                  ...Tony
                • tosime
                  I find the banter very entertaining. It reminds me of the French Cafe dance sequence where a man and woman perform a modern ballet that simulates ugly fight
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 1, 2003
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                    I find the banter very entertaining.

                    It reminds me of the 'French Cafe' dance sequence where a man and woman
                    perform a modern ballet that simulates ugly fight movements - but they end
                    up kissing each other since they really are in love.

                    ...Tony
                  • judirhodes <judirhodes@zianet.com>
                    ... ***** Big difference. It s indistinguishable . It s not experience ... ****** Nope, for experience to be, there would have to be an experiencer , of
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 1, 2003
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                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea
                      <jeff@m...>" <jeff@m...> wrote:
                      > Sweet friend, Judi -
                      >
                      > Can you possibly keep your
                      > slasher tongue in its holster
                      > long enough to read more
                      > than one sentence? Your
                      > self-contradiction is
                      > showing all over the place.
                      > You say it's not joy, but you call
                      > it pure joy.

                      ***** Big difference. It's "indistinguishable".

                      It's not experience
                      > but you call it a new
                      > perceptual condition.

                      ******** Yep.

                      > New is necessarily experiential,
                      > perception is experiential -

                      ****** Nope, for "experience" to be, there would have to be
                      an "experiencer", of which there is none. :-)


                      > understanding is experiential.

                      ****** Wrong again! Understanding is non-experiential.
                      Ever heard the term "non-duality"? Well there you have it.

                      > Semantic hair-splitting
                      > just to be an antagonist
                      > is your tiresome game.
                      >
                      ******** It's not hair-splitting Jeff, it's just the way it is.
                      You're splitting yourself off as the "haver" of experience.
                      Into good and bad experience, which is true for you, but not for me,
                      I see all experience for what it is. Therein lies the difference.


                      > And speaking of place, this
                      > really isn't the place for this,
                      > but I'm tired of stepping
                      > in your smelly bullshit
                      > everywhere I go...and I want
                      > a shoot out, Rocky.
                      >
                      > Go ahead and run back to the ranch.
                      > I'll be on your trail. I don't
                      > like your style, but I grew
                      > up with people who walked it
                      > and talked it, and I'm willing
                      > and able to stand my ground
                      > against your bluster, buster.
                      >
                      ****** Take another look, you have no "ground" to stand on.
                      Or more to the point, your "ground" is your own ego.


                      > I guess you don't have enough
                      > to rant about at the ranch.
                      > You got an extra bunk?.
                      > You didn't run me off, you
                      > invited me back "anytime".
                      > Still a standing invitation?
                      > You'll have your boys there.
                      >
                      > I left because your juvenile boys
                      > grew ridiculously boring.

                      ******** Yes, we're "boring" as hell. :-)


                      > They didn't scare me off, my
                      > side was hurting from laughing
                      > at their naivety, pompous parroting,
                      > and pitiful pandering to you.
                      > You talk about others wanting fawning
                      > disciples.

                      ***** There's no such "fawning" going on.

                      What do you have at
                      > the ranch? They got nothing.

                      ****** Well, you're right there. Got plenty of nothing. :-)

                      > Less than Snarlo's Guru Raters,
                      > even.
                      >
                      > And get real, you jumped around
                      > like a tenderfoot with someone
                      > shooting at her feet when my
                      > inquiries got too hot.
                      >
                      ***** Not true, you just didn't like the answers you got.

                      > You, I challenge to duel...
                      > Hot-Air filled Cream puffs
                      > at 50 paces. That's about
                      > all you got other than
                      > a bundt pan.
                      >
                      > Still reading?...
                      >
                      > On July 21, 1975 at about
                      > 9:30am my life changed, a
                      > door opened. It was not a flash,
                      > not a la la la moment, it was a
                      > permanent shift of identity,
                      > a new awareness of a reality
                      > that I had been separated
                      > from - a separate reality -
                      > until known, a new overriding
                      > current running through my every
                      > conscious moment from that
                      > moment on. And it was and is
                      > blissful, peaceful beyond
                      > understanding, and full of joy.
                      > Still is.Doesn't mean I don't have
                      > a bold and bad-ass ego, or
                      > that I run from a scrap.
                      >
                      > Not all sages are milquetoasts,
                      > the best of them have been
                      > known to fashion a whip and
                      > crack a few heads.
                      >
                      > Whatever I choose to call
                      > my awakening experience
                      > cannot be negated by your
                      > constant carping. Its wasted.
                      > The person who entered
                      > the meditation center,
                      > after 24 years of seeking,
                      > never left. He ceased to exit.
                      > (Sound familiar?)
                      >
                      > So you don't subscribe to
                      > the Boddisattva vow? I do.
                      > I took it. I honor it.
                      >
                      ******* I chuckle. :-) LOL You are too funny Jeff!
                      What the hell you honoring? LOL Don't be ridiculous.
                      Give it a rest. :-)

                      Judi
                    • Jeff Belyea <jeff@mindgoal.com>
                      Giddy up.
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jan 1, 2003
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                        Giddy up.
                      • Jeff Belyea <jeff@mindgoal.com>
                        ... Well, thanks a lot, Tony. You gave the whole plot away. I want a refund. Love, Jeff
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jan 1, 2003
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                          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tosime" <
                          tosime@b...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I find the banter very entertaining.
                          >
                          > It reminds me of the 'French Cafe' dance sequence where a man and woman
                          > perform a modern ballet that simulates ugly fight movements - but they end
                          > up kissing each other since they really are in love.
                          >
                          > ...Tony

                          Well, thanks a lot, Tony. You gave
                          the whole plot away. I want a refund.

                          Love,

                          Jeff
                        • tosime
                          oooops.... sorry-o - as we say in pigeon english over here. ...Tony PS - What is the Ranch ? ... From: Jeff Belyea
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jan 1, 2003
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                            oooops...."sorry-o" - as we say in pigeon english over here.

                            ...Tony


                            PS - What is the "Ranch"?

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> [mailto:jeff@...]
                            Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 12:48 AM
                            To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: THE SAGE'S VIEW - all


                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tosime" <
                            tosime@b...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I find the banter very entertaining.
                            >
                            > It reminds me of the 'French Cafe' dance sequence where a man and woman
                            > perform a modern ballet that simulates ugly fight movements - but they end
                            > up kissing each other since they really are in love.
                            >
                            > ...Tony

                            Well, thanks a lot, Tony. You gave
                            the whole plot away. I want a refund.

                            Love,

                            Jeff



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                          • Jeff Belyea <jeff@mindgoal.com>
                            Hi, again, Tony - The Ranch is another group site run by Judi.She approves all members before they can join and moderates all messages before they are posted.
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jan 1, 2003
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                              Hi, again, Tony -

                              The Ranch is another group site
                              run by Judi.She approves all members
                              before they can join and moderates all
                              messages before they are posted.

                              A word to the wise. She's on her
                              best behavior here. She's ruthless
                              at "The Ranch" - full name, The
                              End of The Rope, Ranch.

                              Best,

                              Jeff
                            • Jeff Belyea <jeff@mindgoal.com>
                              Hi, again, Tony - The Ranch is another group site run by Judi.She approves all members before they can join and moderates all messages before they are posted.
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jan 1, 2003
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                                Hi, again, Tony -

                                The Ranch is another group site
                                run by Judi.She approves all members
                                before they can join and moderates all
                                messages before they are posted.

                                A word to the wise. She's on her
                                best behavior here. She's ruthless
                                at "The Ranch" - full name, The
                                End of The Rope, Ranch.

                                Best,

                                Jeff
                              • judirhodes <judirhodes@zianet.com>
                                ... ******* Well that s why I don t people with anger problems on. If someone has an anger problem, they got to work that out first. There s a certain level of
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jan 1, 2003
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                                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea
                                  <jeff@m...>" <jeff@m...> wrote:
                                  > Hi, again, Tony -
                                  >
                                  > The Ranch is another group site
                                  > run by Judi.She approves all members
                                  > before they can join and moderates all
                                  > messages before they are posted.
                                  >
                                  ****** No, that's not true. No posts are moderated.


                                  > A word to the wise. She's on her
                                  > best behavior here. She's ruthless
                                  > at "The Ranch" - full name, The
                                  > End of The Rope, Ranch.
                                  >
                                  ******* Well that's why I don't people with anger problems on.
                                  If someone has an anger problem, they got to work that out first.
                                  There's a certain level of emotional maturity that's required. And
                                  I'm not mean by any means, but rarely do I ever pull any punches
                                  either, but it's all done in love, good fun and humor. And everyone
                                  seems to have a good time.

                                  Judi



                                  > Best,
                                  >
                                  > Jeff
                                • markwotter704 <markwotter704@yahoo.com>
                                  Hi Tony, the ranch is a place where folks go to be slaughtered. Sounds like fun, huh? Mark
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jan 7, 2003
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                                    Hi Tony,

                                    the ranch is a place where folks go to be slaughtered. Sounds like
                                    fun, huh?

                                    Mark

                                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "tosime"
                                    <tosime@b...> wrote:
                                    > I keep seeing the word "Ranch". What is it?
                                    >
                                    > Is it another group?
                                    > Where is it?
                                    > What happens there?
                                    >
                                    > Are we all invited?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ...Tony
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