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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Mambo #5 with God

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  • Bruce Morgen
    ... True. ... True. ... Iow, unknowable -- and capitalizing that K doesn t change that fact. Please consider that fortunate realized folks still have the
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 17, 2008
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      Jeff Belyea wrote:
      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
      > <editor@...> wrote:
      >
      >> Jeff Belyea wrote:
      >>
      >>> In response to Bob and Bruce's
      >>> response to Era's post about
      >>> "knowing God"...
      >>>
      >>> Here's my "little bit of this,
      >>> little bit of that" from my dance:
      >>>
      >>> >From The Old Testament
      >>> (repeated in the New One
      >>> and reference several times
      >>> as "having come to pass"):
      >>>
      >>> "Behold, the days come,
      >>> saith the LORD, that I
      >>> will make a a new covenant...
      >>>
      >>> I will put my law in their
      >>> inward parts, and write it in
      >>> their hearts; ...
      >>>
      >>> they shall all know me."
      >>>
      >>> So, if the wise say that
      >>> they know that God is
      >>> unknowable, they err. And
      >>> they are wise in their
      >>> own mind - which is
      >>> incidently the major block
      >>> to enlightenment.
      >>>
      >>> Enlightenment IS coming
      >>> into the knowledgable
      >>> presence of God..
      >>> as promised.
      >>>
      >>> I know God.
      >>>
      >>> Formally introduced
      >>> July 21, many years ago,
      >>> at about 9:30am.
      >>>
      >>> And we continue to
      >>> stay in touch.
      >>>
      >>> Call me ignorant if
      >>> you must. God knows.
      >>>
      >>>
      >> I see you as not "ignorant,"
      >> but perhaps playing somewhat
      >> fast and loose with the word
      >> "knowledge," which essentially
      >> means "stored information."
      >>
      >> As an illustration, can you
      >> tell me what it is you "know"
      >> of this "God?"
      >>
      >>
      >
      > It is the inadequacy of words
      > to explain the fuller meaning
      > of "Knowledge" in the context
      > of my earlier post that makes it
      > seem as a fast and loose dance.
      >

      True.

      > Knowledge becomes secondary stored
      > information when it enters
      > the necessarily dualistic world
      > of mental reflection and any
      > attempt at "telling".
      >

      True.

      > God can be Known, but God
      > cannot be explained in words;
      > only Known by direct experience...
      > which, to be redundant, is
      > beyond words.
      >

      Iow, "unknowable" -- and
      capitalizing that "K"
      doesn't change that fact.

      Please consider that
      fortunate "realized" folks
      still have the failings of
      incarnate life to deal with.
      Religious conditioning is
      especially problematic and
      can easily lead to mistaking
      the ecstatic response of our
      personal meat puppets to the
      unknowable (aka "Holy
      Spirit") with "knowing God"
      or some such -- our heads
      are full of old scripture
      vouchsafing this knowledge
      to us, so in the aftermoment
      ego "backfills" the miracle
      of realization with that
      stuff and we are quite prone
      to claiming that we now
      "know God." It sure sounds
      good from the pulpit too!

      > Thanks, Bruce. Always
      > enjoy your perspective.
      >

      Right back atcha, Jeff!

      > Jeff
      >
      Much love -- Bruce
    • Jeff Belyea
      ... Interesting syntax - ego backfilling vs new enlightened understanding of scripture. There would be more of a case for the headroom filled with scripture
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 17, 2008
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
        <editor@...> wrote:
        >
        > Jeff Belyea wrote:
        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
        > > <editor@> wrote:
        > >
        > >> Jeff Belyea wrote:
        > >>
        > >>> In response to Bob and Bruce's
        > >>> response to Era's post about
        > >>> "knowing God"...
        > >>>
        > >>> Here's my "little bit of this,
        > >>> little bit of that" from my dance:
        > >>>
        > >>> >From The Old Testament
        > >>> (repeated in the New One
        > >>> and reference several times
        > >>> as "having come to pass"):
        > >>>
        > >>> "Behold, the days come,
        > >>> saith the LORD, that I
        > >>> will make a a new covenant...
        > >>>
        > >>> I will put my law in their
        > >>> inward parts, and write it in
        > >>> their hearts; ...
        > >>>
        > >>> they shall all know me."
        > >>>
        > >>> So, if the wise say that
        > >>> they know that God is
        > >>> unknowable, they err. And
        > >>> they are wise in their
        > >>> own mind - which is
        > >>> incidently the major block
        > >>> to enlightenment.
        > >>>
        > >>> Enlightenment IS coming
        > >>> into the knowledgable
        > >>> presence of God..
        > >>> as promised.
        > >>>
        > >>> I know God.
        > >>>
        > >>> Formally introduced
        > >>> July 21, many years ago,
        > >>> at about 9:30am.
        > >>>
        > >>> And we continue to
        > >>> stay in touch.
        > >>>
        > >>> Call me ignorant if
        > >>> you must. God knows.
        > >>>
        > >>>
        > >> I see you as not "ignorant,"
        > >> but perhaps playing somewhat
        > >> fast and loose with the word
        > >> "knowledge," which essentially
        > >> means "stored information."
        > >>
        > >> As an illustration, can you
        > >> tell me what it is you "know"
        > >> of this "God?"
        > >>
        > >>
        > >
        > > It is the inadequacy of words
        > > to explain the fuller meaning
        > > of "Knowledge" in the context
        > > of my earlier post that makes it
        > > seem as a fast and loose dance.
        > >
        >
        > True.
        >
        > > Knowledge becomes secondary stored
        > > information when it enters
        > > the necessarily dualistic world
        > > of mental reflection and any
        > > attempt at "telling".
        > >
        >
        > True.
        >
        > > God can be Known, but God
        > > cannot be explained in words;
        > > only Known by direct experience...
        > > which, to be redundant, is
        > > beyond words.
        > >
        >
        > Iow, "unknowable" -- and
        > capitalizing that "K"
        > doesn't change that fact.
        >
        > Please consider that
        > fortunate "realized" folks
        > still have the failings of
        > incarnate life to deal with.
        > Religious conditioning is
        > especially problematic and
        > can easily lead to mistaking
        > the ecstatic response of our
        > personal meat puppets to the
        > unknowable (aka "Holy
        > Spirit") with "knowing God"
        > or some such -- our heads
        > are full of old scripture
        > vouchsafing this knowledge
        > to us, so in the aftermoment
        > ego "backfills" the miracle
        > of realization with that
        > stuff and we are quite prone
        > to claiming that we now
        > "know God." It sure sounds
        > good from the pulpit too!
        >
        > > Thanks, Bruce. Always
        > > enjoy your perspective.
        > >
        >
        > Right back atcha, Jeff!
        >
        > > Jeff
        > >
        > Much love -- Bruce
        >

        Interesting syntax -
        ego backfilling vs new
        enlightened understanding
        of scripture. There would
        be more of a case for the
        headroom filled with
        scripture that is used
        by the ego to backfill,
        if the backfilling were
        model specific (the home
        of the fundamentalist),
        but when the knowledge
        with a capital K (a literary
        and graphic design convention,
        I know) reveals a core
        understanding in all
        spiritual traditions
        (the mystical path),
        the case is less
        convincing.

        The meat puppets who
        think morph into meat
        puppets who have a
        pseudo-spiritual experience?

        Cosmic, man.

        I'll take theist language,
        thanks. Sure sounds better
        from the pulpit - especially
        when it comes from the
        mystic heart of Knowledge.

        Thanks,

        Cosmic Man

        PS: Just had flashback
        to the punch and Judy days.
      • Bruce Morgen
        Jeff knows this, but just for clarity: I m not questioning his authenticity, just noting what I see as the pitfalls of adopting theistic expression. We all
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 17, 2008
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          Jeff knows this, but just for
          clarity: I'm not questioning
          his authenticity, just noting
          what I see as the pitfalls of
          adopting theistic expression.
          We all have to weigh pulpit
          impact vs. possibly misleading
          or occluding effects, and we
          tend to make our calls based
          on conditioning -- both the
          environmental conditioning of
          our upbringings (cum other
          formative experiences) and the
          biological/genetic conditioning
          that determines our places on
          the bhakta-jnana spectrum.

          Thanks for the dialogue, Jeff!


          Jeff Belyea wrote:
          > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
          > <editor@...> wrote:
          >
          >> Jeff Belyea wrote:
          >>
          >>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
          >>> <editor@> wrote:
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>> Jeff Belyea wrote:
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>>>> In response to Bob and Bruce's
          >>>>> response to Era's post about
          >>>>> "knowing God"...
          >>>>>
          >>>>> Here's my "little bit of this,
          >>>>> little bit of that" from my dance:
          >>>>>
          >>>>> >From The Old Testament
          >>>>> (repeated in the New One
          >>>>> and reference several times
          >>>>> as "having come to pass"):
          >>>>>
          >>>>> "Behold, the days come,
          >>>>> saith the LORD, that I
          >>>>> will make a a new covenant...
          >>>>>
          >>>>> I will put my law in their
          >>>>> inward parts, and write it in
          >>>>> their hearts; ...
          >>>>>
          >>>>> they shall all know me."
          >>>>>
          >>>>> So, if the wise say that
          >>>>> they know that God is
          >>>>> unknowable, they err. And
          >>>>> they are wise in their
          >>>>> own mind - which is
          >>>>> incidently the major block
          >>>>> to enlightenment.
          >>>>>
          >>>>> Enlightenment IS coming
          >>>>> into the knowledgable
          >>>>> presence of God..
          >>>>> as promised.
          >>>>>
          >>>>> I know God.
          >>>>>
          >>>>> Formally introduced
          >>>>> July 21, many years ago,
          >>>>> at about 9:30am.
          >>>>>
          >>>>> And we continue to
          >>>>> stay in touch.
          >>>>>
          >>>>> Call me ignorant if
          >>>>> you must. God knows.
          >>>>>
          >>>>>
          >>>>>
          >>>> I see you as not "ignorant,"
          >>>> but perhaps playing somewhat
          >>>> fast and loose with the word
          >>>> "knowledge," which essentially
          >>>> means "stored information."
          >>>>
          >>>> As an illustration, can you
          >>>> tell me what it is you "know"
          >>>> of this "God?"
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>>>
          >>> It is the inadequacy of words
          >>> to explain the fuller meaning
          >>> of "Knowledge" in the context
          >>> of my earlier post that makes it
          >>> seem as a fast and loose dance.
          >>>
          >>>
          >> True.
          >>
          >>
          >>> Knowledge becomes secondary stored
          >>> information when it enters
          >>> the necessarily dualistic world
          >>> of mental reflection and any
          >>> attempt at "telling".
          >>>
          >>>
          >> True.
          >>
          >>
          >>> God can be Known, but God
          >>> cannot be explained in words;
          >>> only Known by direct experience...
          >>> which, to be redundant, is
          >>> beyond words.
          >>>
          >>>
          >> Iow, "unknowable" -- and
          >> capitalizing that "K"
          >> doesn't change that fact.
          >>
          >> Please consider that
          >> fortunate "realized" folks
          >> still have the failings of
          >> incarnate life to deal with.
          >> Religious conditioning is
          >> especially problematic and
          >> can easily lead to mistaking
          >> the ecstatic response of our
          >> personal meat puppets to the
          >> unknowable (aka "Holy
          >> Spirit") with "knowing God"
          >> or some such -- our heads
          >> are full of old scripture
          >> vouchsafing this knowledge
          >> to us, so in the aftermoment
          >> ego "backfills" the miracle
          >> of realization with that
          >> stuff and we are quite prone
          >> to claiming that we now
          >> "know God." It sure sounds
          >> good from the pulpit too!
          >>
          >>
          >>> Thanks, Bruce. Always
          >>> enjoy your perspective.
          >>>
          >>>
          >> Right back atcha, Jeff!
          >>
          >>
          >>> Jeff
          >>>
          >>>
          >> Much love -- Bruce
          >>
          >>
          >
          > Interesting syntax -
          > ego backfilling vs new
          > enlightened understanding
          > of scripture. There would
          > be more of a case for the
          > headroom filled with
          > scripture that is used
          > by the ego to backfill,
          > if the backfilling were
          > model specific (the home
          > of the fundamentalist),
          > but when the knowledge
          > with a capital K (a literary
          > and graphic design convention,
          > I know) reveals a core
          > understanding in all
          > spiritual traditions
          > (the mystical path),
          > the case is less
          > convincing.
          >
          > The meat puppets who
          > think morph into meat
          > puppets who have a
          > pseudo-spiritual experience?
          >
          > Cosmic, man.
          >
          > I'll take theist language,
          > thanks. Sure sounds better
          > from the pulpit - especially
          > when it comes from the
          > mystic heart of Knowledge.
          >
          > Thanks,
          >
          > Cosmic Man
          >
          > PS: Just had flashback
          > to the punch and Judy days.
          >
          >
        • Jeff Belyea
          ... You re welcome, Bruce. True, your responses to me are never taken as questioning authenticity. I couldn t help but note the plot twist at the end of your
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 17, 2008
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            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:
            >
            > Jeff knows this, but just for
            > clarity: I'm not questioning
            > his authenticity, just noting
            > what I see as the pitfalls of
            > adopting theistic expression.
            > We all have to weigh pulpit
            > impact vs. possibly misleading
            > or occluding effects, and we
            > tend to make our calls based
            > on conditioning -- both the
            > environmental conditioning of
            > our upbringings (cum other
            > formative experiences) and the
            > biological/genetic conditioning
            > that determines our places on
            > the bhakta-jnana spectrum.
            >
            > Thanks for the dialogue, Jeff!

            You're welcome, Bruce.
            True, your responses to
            me are never taken as
            questioning authenticity.

            I couldn't help but note
            the "plot twist" at the end
            of your post. Two of us
            from Judeo (you)-Christian (me)
            backgrounds discussing
            the pros and pitfalls of
            theistic language ends with
            a reference to the bhakta-
            jnana spectrum. Smilling.

            How about, God is knowable,
            but not wordable?

            Peace, love and blessings,

            Jeff

            PS: Not sure why you mixed
            in the little aside about fortunate
            "realized" ones having to cope with
            the slings and arrows of life on
            earth, but, of course, agreed.

            Above the fray (in a way), but not
            above stubbing a toe on a bedpost
            during a night-time sojourn...
            and spouting a burst of profanity.





            >
            >
            > Jeff Belyea wrote:
            > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
            > > <editor@> wrote:
            > >
            > >> Jeff Belyea wrote:
            > >>
            > >>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
            > >>> <editor@> wrote:
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >>>> Jeff Belyea wrote:
            > >>>>
            > >>>>
            > >>>>> In response to Bob and Bruce's
            > >>>>> response to Era's post about
            > >>>>> "knowing God"...
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>> Here's my "little bit of this,
            > >>>>> little bit of that" from my dance:
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>> >From The Old Testament
            > >>>>> (repeated in the New One
            > >>>>> and reference several times
            > >>>>> as "having come to pass"):
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>> "Behold, the days come,
            > >>>>> saith the LORD, that I
            > >>>>> will make a a new covenant...
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>> I will put my law in their
            > >>>>> inward parts, and write it in
            > >>>>> their hearts; ...
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>> they shall all know me."
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>> So, if the wise say that
            > >>>>> they know that God is
            > >>>>> unknowable, they err. And
            > >>>>> they are wise in their
            > >>>>> own mind - which is
            > >>>>> incidently the major block
            > >>>>> to enlightenment.
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>> Enlightenment IS coming
            > >>>>> into the knowledgable
            > >>>>> presence of God..
            > >>>>> as promised.
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>> I know God.
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>> Formally introduced
            > >>>>> July 21, many years ago,
            > >>>>> at about 9:30am.
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>> And we continue to
            > >>>>> stay in touch.
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>> Call me ignorant if
            > >>>>> you must. God knows.
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>>
            > >>>>>
            > >>>> I see you as not "ignorant,"
            > >>>> but perhaps playing somewhat
            > >>>> fast and loose with the word
            > >>>> "knowledge," which essentially
            > >>>> means "stored information."
            > >>>>
            > >>>> As an illustration, can you
            > >>>> tell me what it is you "know"
            > >>>> of this "God?"
            > >>>>
            > >>>>
            > >>>>
            > >>> It is the inadequacy of words
            > >>> to explain the fuller meaning
            > >>> of "Knowledge" in the context
            > >>> of my earlier post that makes it
            > >>> seem as a fast and loose dance.
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >> True.
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>> Knowledge becomes secondary stored
            > >>> information when it enters
            > >>> the necessarily dualistic world
            > >>> of mental reflection and any
            > >>> attempt at "telling".
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >> True.
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>> God can be Known, but God
            > >>> cannot be explained in words;
            > >>> only Known by direct experience...
            > >>> which, to be redundant, is
            > >>> beyond words.
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >> Iow, "unknowable" -- and
            > >> capitalizing that "K"
            > >> doesn't change that fact.
            > >>
            > >> Please consider that
            > >> fortunate "realized" folks
            > >> still have the failings of
            > >> incarnate life to deal with.
            > >> Religious conditioning is
            > >> especially problematic and
            > >> can easily lead to mistaking
            > >> the ecstatic response of our
            > >> personal meat puppets to the
            > >> unknowable (aka "Holy
            > >> Spirit") with "knowing God"
            > >> or some such -- our heads
            > >> are full of old scripture
            > >> vouchsafing this knowledge
            > >> to us, so in the aftermoment
            > >> ego "backfills" the miracle
            > >> of realization with that
            > >> stuff and we are quite prone
            > >> to claiming that we now
            > >> "know God." It sure sounds
            > >> good from the pulpit too!
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>> Thanks, Bruce. Always
            > >>> enjoy your perspective.
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >> Right back atcha, Jeff!
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>> Jeff
            > >>>
            > >>>
            > >> Much love -- Bruce
            > >>
            > >>
            > >
            > > Interesting syntax -
            > > ego backfilling vs new
            > > enlightened understanding
            > > of scripture. There would
            > > be more of a case for the
            > > headroom filled with
            > > scripture that is used
            > > by the ego to backfill,
            > > if the backfilling were
            > > model specific (the home
            > > of the fundamentalist),
            > > but when the knowledge
            > > with a capital K (a literary
            > > and graphic design convention,
            > > I know) reveals a core
            > > understanding in all
            > > spiritual traditions
            > > (the mystical path),
            > > the case is less
            > > convincing.
            > >
            > > The meat puppets who
            > > think morph into meat
            > > puppets who have a
            > > pseudo-spiritual experience?
            > >
            > > Cosmic, man.
            > >
            > > I'll take theist language,
            > > thanks. Sure sounds better
            > > from the pulpit - especially
            > > when it comes from the
            > > mystic heart of Knowledge.
            > >
            > > Thanks,
            > >
            > > Cosmic Man
            > >
            > > PS: Just had flashback
            > > to the punch and Judy days.
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Bruce Morgen
            ... No sale -- but thanks for playing! :-) ... Right back atcha! ... Because our language preferences tend to be part and parcel of conditioning
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 17, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Jeff Belyea wrote:
              > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:
              >
              >> Jeff knows this, but just for
              >> clarity: I'm not questioning
              >> his authenticity, just noting
              >> what I see as the pitfalls of
              >> adopting theistic expression.
              >> We all have to weigh pulpit
              >> impact vs. possibly misleading
              >> or occluding effects, and we
              >> tend to make our calls based
              >> on conditioning -- both the
              >> environmental conditioning of
              >> our upbringings (cum other
              >> formative experiences) and the
              >> biological/genetic conditioning
              >> that determines our places on
              >> the bhakta-jnana spectrum.
              >>
              >> Thanks for the dialogue, Jeff!
              >>
              >
              > You're welcome, Bruce.
              > True, your responses to
              > me are never taken as
              > questioning authenticity.
              >
              > I couldn't help but note
              > the "plot twist" at the end
              > of your post. Two of us
              > from Judeo (you)-Christian (me)
              > backgrounds discussing
              > the pros and pitfalls of
              > theistic language ends with
              > a reference to the bhakta-
              > jnana spectrum. Smilling.
              >
              > How about, God is knowable,
              > but not wordable?
              >

              No sale -- but thanks for
              playing! :-)

              > Peace, love and blessings,
              >

              Right back atcha!

              > Jeff
              >
              > PS: Not sure why you mixed
              > in the little aside about fortunate
              > "realized" ones having to cope with
              > the slings and arrows of life on
              > earth, but, of course, agreed.
              >
              Because our language
              preferences tend to be part
              and parcel of conditioning
              rather than imparted by our
              "Holy Spirit" encounter(s).

              > Above the fray (in a way), but not
              > above stubbing a toe on a bedpost
              > during a night-time sojourn...
              > and spouting a burst of profanity.
              >
              bcnu around, Jeff!

              >
              >
              >
              >> Jeff Belyea wrote:
              >>
              >>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
              >>> <editor@> wrote:
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>> Jeff Belyea wrote:
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
              >>>>> <editor@> wrote:
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>> Jeff Belyea wrote:
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>>> In response to Bob and Bruce's
              >>>>>>> response to Era's post about
              >>>>>>> "knowing God"...
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> Here's my "little bit of this,
              >>>>>>> little bit of that" from my dance:
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> >From The Old Testament
              >>>>>>> (repeated in the New One
              >>>>>>> and reference several times
              >>>>>>> as "having come to pass"):
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> "Behold, the days come,
              >>>>>>> saith the LORD, that I
              >>>>>>> will make a a new covenant...
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> I will put my law in their
              >>>>>>> inward parts, and write it in
              >>>>>>> their hearts; ...
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> they shall all know me."
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> So, if the wise say that
              >>>>>>> they know that God is
              >>>>>>> unknowable, they err. And
              >>>>>>> they are wise in their
              >>>>>>> own mind - which is
              >>>>>>> incidently the major block
              >>>>>>> to enlightenment.
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> Enlightenment IS coming
              >>>>>>> into the knowledgable
              >>>>>>> presence of God..
              >>>>>>> as promised.
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> I know God.
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> Formally introduced
              >>>>>>> July 21, many years ago,
              >>>>>>> at about 9:30am.
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> And we continue to
              >>>>>>> stay in touch.
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>> Call me ignorant if
              >>>>>>> you must. God knows.
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>>>
              >>>>>> I see you as not "ignorant,"
              >>>>>> but perhaps playing somewhat
              >>>>>> fast and loose with the word
              >>>>>> "knowledge," which essentially
              >>>>>> means "stored information."
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>> As an illustration, can you
              >>>>>> tell me what it is you "know"
              >>>>>> of this "God?"
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>>
              >>>>>>
              >>>>> It is the inadequacy of words
              >>>>> to explain the fuller meaning
              >>>>> of "Knowledge" in the context
              >>>>> of my earlier post that makes it
              >>>>> seem as a fast and loose dance.
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>> True.
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>> Knowledge becomes secondary stored
              >>>>> information when it enters
              >>>>> the necessarily dualistic world
              >>>>> of mental reflection and any
              >>>>> attempt at "telling".
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>> True.
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>> God can be Known, but God
              >>>>> cannot be explained in words;
              >>>>> only Known by direct experience...
              >>>>> which, to be redundant, is
              >>>>> beyond words.
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>> Iow, "unknowable" -- and
              >>>> capitalizing that "K"
              >>>> doesn't change that fact.
              >>>>
              >>>> Please consider that
              >>>> fortunate "realized" folks
              >>>> still have the failings of
              >>>> incarnate life to deal with.
              >>>> Religious conditioning is
              >>>> especially problematic and
              >>>> can easily lead to mistaking
              >>>> the ecstatic response of our
              >>>> personal meat puppets to the
              >>>> unknowable (aka "Holy
              >>>> Spirit") with "knowing God"
              >>>> or some such -- our heads
              >>>> are full of old scripture
              >>>> vouchsafing this knowledge
              >>>> to us, so in the aftermoment
              >>>> ego "backfills" the miracle
              >>>> of realization with that
              >>>> stuff and we are quite prone
              >>>> to claiming that we now
              >>>> "know God." It sure sounds
              >>>> good from the pulpit too!
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>> Thanks, Bruce. Always
              >>>>> enjoy your perspective.
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>> Right back atcha, Jeff!
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>> Jeff
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>>>
              >>>> Much love -- Bruce
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>>>
              >>> Interesting syntax -
              >>> ego backfilling vs new
              >>> enlightened understanding
              >>> of scripture. There would
              >>> be more of a case for the
              >>> headroom filled with
              >>> scripture that is used
              >>> by the ego to backfill,
              >>> if the backfilling were
              >>> model specific (the home
              >>> of the fundamentalist),
              >>> but when the knowledge
              >>> with a capital K (a literary
              >>> and graphic design convention,
              >>> I know) reveals a core
              >>> understanding in all
              >>> spiritual traditions
              >>> (the mystical path),
              >>> the case is less
              >>> convincing.
              >>>
              >>> The meat puppets who
              >>> think morph into meat
              >>> puppets who have a
              >>> pseudo-spiritual experience?
              >>>
              >>> Cosmic, man.
              >>>
              >>> I'll take theist language,
              >>> thanks. Sure sounds better
              >>> from the pulpit - especially
              >>> when it comes from the
              >>> mystic heart of Knowledge.
              >>>
              >>> Thanks,
              >>>
              >>> Cosmic Man
              >>>
              >>> PS: Just had flashback
              >>> to the punch and Judy days.
              >>>
              >>>
            • sean tremblay
              Gods favorite color is Blue God is a people person God likes water, sunshine and the outdoors God loves astronomy I m not sure what Gods musical preference is
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 18, 2008
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                Gods favorite color is Blue
                God is a people person
                God likes water,
                 sunshine
                and the outdoors
                God loves astronomy
                I'm not sure what Gods musical preference is
                God looks nothing like Gorge Burns
                But I'm sure God would enjoy a good cigar(who doesnt)
                Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:
                Jeff Belyea wrote:
                > In response to Bob and Bruce's
                > response to Era's post about
                > "knowing God"...
                >
                > Here's my "little bit of this,
                > little bit of that" from my dance:
                >
                > >From The Old Testament
                > (repeated in the New One
                > and reference several times
                > as "having come to pass"):
                >
                > "Behold, the days come,
                > saith the LORD, that I
                > will make a a new covenant...
                >
                > I will put my law in their
                > inward parts, and write it in
                > their hearts; ...
                >
                > they shall all know me."
                >
                > So, if the wise say that
                > they know that God is
                > unknowable, they err. And
                > they are wise in their
                > own mind - which is
                > incidently the major block
                > to enlightenment.
                >
                > Enlightenment IS coming
                > into the knowledgable
                > presence of God..
                > as promised.
                >
                > I know God.
                >
                > Formally introduced
                > July 21, many years ago,
                > at about 9:30am.
                >
                > And we continue to
                > stay in touch.
                >
                > Call me ignorant if
                > you must. God knows.
                >
                I see you as not "ignorant,"
                but perhaps playing somewhat
                fast and loose with the word
                "knowledge," which essentially
                means "stored information. "

                As an illustration, can you
                tell me what it is you "know"
                of this "God?"



                Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

              • Jeff Belyea
                God s musical preference is the harp...not the wimpy harp, but more of the Blues Travelers lung-rippin harp.
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 18, 2008
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                  God's musical preference
                  is the harp...not the wimpy
                  harp, but more of the Blues
                  Travelers lung-rippin' harp.


                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
                  <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Gods favorite color is Blue
                  > God is a people person
                  > God likes water,
                  > sunshine
                  > and the outdoors
                  > God loves astronomy
                  > I'm not sure what Gods musical preference is
                  > God looks nothing like Gorge Burns
                  > But I'm sure God would enjoy a good cigar(who doesnt)
                  > Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:
                  > Jeff Belyea wrote:
                  > > In response to Bob and Bruce's
                  > > response to Era's post about
                  > > "knowing God"...
                  > >
                  > > Here's my "little bit of this,
                  > > little bit of that" from my dance:
                  > >
                  > > >From The Old Testament
                  > > (repeated in the New One
                  > > and reference several times
                  > > as "having come to pass"):
                  > >
                  > > "Behold, the days come,
                  > > saith the LORD, that I
                  > > will make a a new covenant...
                  > >
                  > > I will put my law in their
                  > > inward parts, and write it in
                  > > their hearts; ...
                  > >
                  > > they shall all know me."
                  > >
                  > > So, if the wise say that
                  > > they know that God is
                  > > unknowable, they err. And
                  > > they are wise in their
                  > > own mind - which is
                  > > incidently the major block
                  > > to enlightenment.
                  > >
                  > > Enlightenment IS coming
                  > > into the knowledgable
                  > > presence of God..
                  > > as promised.
                  > >
                  > > I know God.
                  > >
                  > > Formally introduced
                  > > July 21, many years ago,
                  > > at about 9:30am.
                  > >
                  > > And we continue to
                  > > stay in touch.
                  > >
                  > > Call me ignorant if
                  > > you must. God knows.
                  > >
                  > I see you as not "ignorant,"
                  > but perhaps playing somewhat
                  > fast and loose with the word
                  > "knowledge," which essentially
                  > means "stored information."
                  >
                  > As an illustration, can you
                  > tell me what it is you "know"
                  > of this "God?"
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
                  >
                • Bruce Morgen
                  nuff said....
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 18, 2008
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                    <http://youtube.com/watch?v=OmC4SJ42Z-s>

                    'nuff said....


                    Jeff Belyea wrote:
                    > God's musical preference
                    > is the harp...not the wimpy
                    > harp, but more of the Blues
                    > Travelers lung-rippin' harp.
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
                    > <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >> Gods favorite color is Blue
                    >> God is a people person
                    >> God likes water,
                    >> sunshine
                    >> and the outdoors
                    >> God loves astronomy
                    >> I'm not sure what Gods musical preference is
                    >> God looks nothing like Gorge Burns
                    >> But I'm sure God would enjoy a good cigar(who doesnt)
                    >> Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:
                    >> Jeff Belyea wrote:
                    >>
                    >>> In response to Bob and Bruce's
                    >>> response to Era's post about
                    >>> "knowing God"...
                    >>>
                    >>> Here's my "little bit of this,
                    >>> little bit of that" from my dance:
                    >>>
                    >>> >From The Old Testament
                    >>> (repeated in the New One
                    >>> and reference several times
                    >>> as "having come to pass"):
                    >>>
                    >>> "Behold, the days come,
                    >>> saith the LORD, that I
                    >>> will make a a new covenant...
                    >>>
                    >>> I will put my law in their
                    >>> inward parts, and write it in
                    >>> their hearts; ...
                    >>>
                    >>> they shall all know me."
                    >>>
                    >>> So, if the wise say that
                    >>> they know that God is
                    >>> unknowable, they err. And
                    >>> they are wise in their
                    >>> own mind - which is
                    >>> incidently the major block
                    >>> to enlightenment.
                    >>>
                    >>> Enlightenment IS coming
                    >>> into the knowledgable
                    >>> presence of God..
                    >>> as promised.
                    >>>
                    >>> I know God.
                    >>>
                    >>> Formally introduced
                    >>> July 21, many years ago,
                    >>> at about 9:30am.
                    >>>
                    >>> And we continue to
                    >>> stay in touch.
                    >>>
                    >>> Call me ignorant if
                    >>> you must. God knows.
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >> I see you as not "ignorant,"
                    >> but perhaps playing somewhat
                    >> fast and loose with the word
                    >> "knowledge," which essentially
                    >> means "stored information."
                    >>
                    >> As an illustration, can you
                    >> tell me what it is you "know"
                    >> of this "God?"
                    >>
                  • Jeff Belyea
                    heavenly
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 18, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      heavenly

                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
                      <editor@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > <http://youtube.com/watch?v=OmC4SJ42Z-s>
                      >
                      > 'nuff said....
                      >
                      >
                      > Jeff Belyea wrote:
                      > > God's musical preference
                      > > is the harp...not the wimpy
                      > > harp, but more of the Blues
                      > > Travelers lung-rippin' harp.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
                      > > <bethjams9@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >> Gods favorite color is Blue
                      > >> God is a people person
                      > >> God likes water,
                      > >> sunshine
                      > >> and the outdoors
                      > >> God loves astronomy
                      > >> I'm not sure what Gods musical preference is
                      > >> God looks nothing like Gorge Burns
                      > >> But I'm sure God would enjoy a good cigar(who doesnt)
                      > >> Bruce Morgen <editor@> wrote:
                      > >> Jeff Belyea wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >>> In response to Bob and Bruce's
                      > >>> response to Era's post about
                      > >>> "knowing God"...
                      > >>>
                      > >>> Here's my "little bit of this,
                      > >>> little bit of that" from my dance:
                      > >>>
                      > >>> >From The Old Testament
                      > >>> (repeated in the New One
                      > >>> and reference several times
                      > >>> as "having come to pass"):
                      > >>>
                      > >>> "Behold, the days come,
                      > >>> saith the LORD, that I
                      > >>> will make a a new covenant...
                      > >>>
                      > >>> I will put my law in their
                      > >>> inward parts, and write it in
                      > >>> their hearts; ...
                      > >>>
                      > >>> they shall all know me."
                      > >>>
                      > >>> So, if the wise say that
                      > >>> they know that God is
                      > >>> unknowable, they err. And
                      > >>> they are wise in their
                      > >>> own mind - which is
                      > >>> incidently the major block
                      > >>> to enlightenment.
                      > >>>
                      > >>> Enlightenment IS coming
                      > >>> into the knowledgable
                      > >>> presence of God..
                      > >>> as promised.
                      > >>>
                      > >>> I know God.
                      > >>>
                      > >>> Formally introduced
                      > >>> July 21, many years ago,
                      > >>> at about 9:30am.
                      > >>>
                      > >>> And we continue to
                      > >>> stay in touch.
                      > >>>
                      > >>> Call me ignorant if
                      > >>> you must. God knows.
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >> I see you as not "ignorant,"
                      > >> but perhaps playing somewhat
                      > >> fast and loose with the word
                      > >> "knowledge," which essentially
                      > >> means "stored information."
                      > >>
                      > >> As an illustration, can you
                      > >> tell me what it is you "know"
                      > >> of this "God?"
                      > >>
                      >
                    • Aideen McKenna
                      Oh thank you – that video made my week! _____ From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jan 18, 2008
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                        Oh thank you – that video made my week!

                         


                        From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bruce Morgen
                        Sent: January 18, 2008 10:30 AM
                        To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America ] Mambo #5 with God

                         

                        <http://youtube. com/watch? v=OmC4SJ42Z- s>

                        'nuff said....

                        Jeff Belyea wrote:

                        > God's musical preference
                        > is the harp...not the wimpy
                        > harp, but more of the Blues
                        > Travelers lung-rippin' harp.
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com,
                        sean tremblay
                        > <bethjams9@. ..> wrote:
                        >
                        >> Gods favorite color is Blue
                        >> God is a people person
                        >> God likes water,
                        >> sunshine
                        >> and the outdoors
                        >> God loves astronomy
                        >> I'm not sure what Gods musical preference is
                        >> God looks nothing like Gorge Burns
                        >> But I'm sure God would enjoy a good cigar(who doesnt)
                        >> Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:
                        >> Jeff Belyea wrote:
                        >>
                        >>> In response to Bob and Bruce's
                        >>> response to Era's post about
                        >>> "knowing God"...
                        >>>
                        >>> Here's my "little bit of this,
                        >>> little bit of that" from my dance:
                        >>>
                        >>> >From The Old Testament
                        >>> (repeated in the New One
                        >>> and reference several times
                        >>> as "having come to pass"):
                        >>>
                        >>> "Behold, the days come,
                        >>> saith the LORD, that I
                        >>> will make a a new covenant...
                        >>>
                        >>> I will put my law in their
                        >>> inward parts, and write it in
                        >>> their hearts; ...
                        >>>
                        >>> they shall all know me."
                        >>>
                        >>> So, if the wise say that
                        >>> they know that God is
                        >>> unknowable, they err. And
                        >>> they are wise in their
                        >>> own mind - which is
                        >>> incidently the major block
                        >>> to enlightenment.
                        >>>
                        >>> Enlightenment IS coming
                        >>> into the knowledgable
                        >>> presence of God..
                        >>> as promised.
                        >>>
                        >>> I know God.
                        >>>
                        >>> Formally introduced
                        >>> July 21, many years ago,
                        >>> at about 9:30am.
                        >>>
                        >>> And we continue to
                        >>> stay in touch.
                        >>>
                        >>> Call me ignorant if
                        >>> you must. God knows.
                        >>>
                        >>>
                        >> I see you as not "ignorant,"
                        >> but perhaps playing somewhat
                        >> fast and loose with the word
                        >> "knowledge," which essentially
                        >> means "stored information. "
                        >>
                        >> As an illustration, can you
                        >> tell me what it is you "know"
                        >> of this "God?"
                        >>


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