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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Mambo #5 with God

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  • Jeff Belyea
    ... It is the inadequacy of words to explain the fuller meaning of Knowledge in the context of my earlier post that makes it seem as a fast and loose dance.
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 17, 2008
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
      <editor@...> wrote:
      >
      > Jeff Belyea wrote:
      > > In response to Bob and Bruce's
      > > response to Era's post about
      > > "knowing God"...
      > >
      > > Here's my "little bit of this,
      > > little bit of that" from my dance:
      > >
      > > >From The Old Testament
      > > (repeated in the New One
      > > and reference several times
      > > as "having come to pass"):
      > >
      > > "Behold, the days come,
      > > saith the LORD, that I
      > > will make a a new covenant...
      > >
      > > I will put my law in their
      > > inward parts, and write it in
      > > their hearts; ...
      > >
      > > they shall all know me."
      > >
      > > So, if the wise say that
      > > they know that God is
      > > unknowable, they err. And
      > > they are wise in their
      > > own mind - which is
      > > incidently the major block
      > > to enlightenment.
      > >
      > > Enlightenment IS coming
      > > into the knowledgable
      > > presence of God..
      > > as promised.
      > >
      > > I know God.
      > >
      > > Formally introduced
      > > July 21, many years ago,
      > > at about 9:30am.
      > >
      > > And we continue to
      > > stay in touch.
      > >
      > > Call me ignorant if
      > > you must. God knows.
      > >
      > I see you as not "ignorant,"
      > but perhaps playing somewhat
      > fast and loose with the word
      > "knowledge," which essentially
      > means "stored information."
      >
      > As an illustration, can you
      > tell me what it is you "know"
      > of this "God?"
      >

      It is the inadequacy of words
      to explain the fuller meaning
      of "Knowledge" in the context
      of my earlier post that makes it
      seem as a fast and loose dance.

      Knowledge becomes secondary stored
      information when it enters
      the necessarily dualistic world
      of mental reflection and any
      attemp at "telling".

      God can be Known, but God
      cannot be explained in words;
      only Known by direct experience...
      which, to be redundant, is
      beyond words.

      Thanks, Bruce. Always
      enjoy your perspective.

      Jeff
    • Bruce Morgen
      ... True. ... True. ... Iow, unknowable -- and capitalizing that K doesn t change that fact. Please consider that fortunate realized folks still have the
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 17, 2008
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        Jeff Belyea wrote:
        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
        > <editor@...> wrote:
        >
        >> Jeff Belyea wrote:
        >>
        >>> In response to Bob and Bruce's
        >>> response to Era's post about
        >>> "knowing God"...
        >>>
        >>> Here's my "little bit of this,
        >>> little bit of that" from my dance:
        >>>
        >>> >From The Old Testament
        >>> (repeated in the New One
        >>> and reference several times
        >>> as "having come to pass"):
        >>>
        >>> "Behold, the days come,
        >>> saith the LORD, that I
        >>> will make a a new covenant...
        >>>
        >>> I will put my law in their
        >>> inward parts, and write it in
        >>> their hearts; ...
        >>>
        >>> they shall all know me."
        >>>
        >>> So, if the wise say that
        >>> they know that God is
        >>> unknowable, they err. And
        >>> they are wise in their
        >>> own mind - which is
        >>> incidently the major block
        >>> to enlightenment.
        >>>
        >>> Enlightenment IS coming
        >>> into the knowledgable
        >>> presence of God..
        >>> as promised.
        >>>
        >>> I know God.
        >>>
        >>> Formally introduced
        >>> July 21, many years ago,
        >>> at about 9:30am.
        >>>
        >>> And we continue to
        >>> stay in touch.
        >>>
        >>> Call me ignorant if
        >>> you must. God knows.
        >>>
        >>>
        >> I see you as not "ignorant,"
        >> but perhaps playing somewhat
        >> fast and loose with the word
        >> "knowledge," which essentially
        >> means "stored information."
        >>
        >> As an illustration, can you
        >> tell me what it is you "know"
        >> of this "God?"
        >>
        >>
        >
        > It is the inadequacy of words
        > to explain the fuller meaning
        > of "Knowledge" in the context
        > of my earlier post that makes it
        > seem as a fast and loose dance.
        >

        True.

        > Knowledge becomes secondary stored
        > information when it enters
        > the necessarily dualistic world
        > of mental reflection and any
        > attempt at "telling".
        >

        True.

        > God can be Known, but God
        > cannot be explained in words;
        > only Known by direct experience...
        > which, to be redundant, is
        > beyond words.
        >

        Iow, "unknowable" -- and
        capitalizing that "K"
        doesn't change that fact.

        Please consider that
        fortunate "realized" folks
        still have the failings of
        incarnate life to deal with.
        Religious conditioning is
        especially problematic and
        can easily lead to mistaking
        the ecstatic response of our
        personal meat puppets to the
        unknowable (aka "Holy
        Spirit") with "knowing God"
        or some such -- our heads
        are full of old scripture
        vouchsafing this knowledge
        to us, so in the aftermoment
        ego "backfills" the miracle
        of realization with that
        stuff and we are quite prone
        to claiming that we now
        "know God." It sure sounds
        good from the pulpit too!

        > Thanks, Bruce. Always
        > enjoy your perspective.
        >

        Right back atcha, Jeff!

        > Jeff
        >
        Much love -- Bruce
      • Jeff Belyea
        ... Interesting syntax - ego backfilling vs new enlightened understanding of scripture. There would be more of a case for the headroom filled with scripture
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 17, 2008
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          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
          <editor@...> wrote:
          >
          > Jeff Belyea wrote:
          > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
          > > <editor@> wrote:
          > >
          > >> Jeff Belyea wrote:
          > >>
          > >>> In response to Bob and Bruce's
          > >>> response to Era's post about
          > >>> "knowing God"...
          > >>>
          > >>> Here's my "little bit of this,
          > >>> little bit of that" from my dance:
          > >>>
          > >>> >From The Old Testament
          > >>> (repeated in the New One
          > >>> and reference several times
          > >>> as "having come to pass"):
          > >>>
          > >>> "Behold, the days come,
          > >>> saith the LORD, that I
          > >>> will make a a new covenant...
          > >>>
          > >>> I will put my law in their
          > >>> inward parts, and write it in
          > >>> their hearts; ...
          > >>>
          > >>> they shall all know me."
          > >>>
          > >>> So, if the wise say that
          > >>> they know that God is
          > >>> unknowable, they err. And
          > >>> they are wise in their
          > >>> own mind - which is
          > >>> incidently the major block
          > >>> to enlightenment.
          > >>>
          > >>> Enlightenment IS coming
          > >>> into the knowledgable
          > >>> presence of God..
          > >>> as promised.
          > >>>
          > >>> I know God.
          > >>>
          > >>> Formally introduced
          > >>> July 21, many years ago,
          > >>> at about 9:30am.
          > >>>
          > >>> And we continue to
          > >>> stay in touch.
          > >>>
          > >>> Call me ignorant if
          > >>> you must. God knows.
          > >>>
          > >>>
          > >> I see you as not "ignorant,"
          > >> but perhaps playing somewhat
          > >> fast and loose with the word
          > >> "knowledge," which essentially
          > >> means "stored information."
          > >>
          > >> As an illustration, can you
          > >> tell me what it is you "know"
          > >> of this "God?"
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          > > It is the inadequacy of words
          > > to explain the fuller meaning
          > > of "Knowledge" in the context
          > > of my earlier post that makes it
          > > seem as a fast and loose dance.
          > >
          >
          > True.
          >
          > > Knowledge becomes secondary stored
          > > information when it enters
          > > the necessarily dualistic world
          > > of mental reflection and any
          > > attempt at "telling".
          > >
          >
          > True.
          >
          > > God can be Known, but God
          > > cannot be explained in words;
          > > only Known by direct experience...
          > > which, to be redundant, is
          > > beyond words.
          > >
          >
          > Iow, "unknowable" -- and
          > capitalizing that "K"
          > doesn't change that fact.
          >
          > Please consider that
          > fortunate "realized" folks
          > still have the failings of
          > incarnate life to deal with.
          > Religious conditioning is
          > especially problematic and
          > can easily lead to mistaking
          > the ecstatic response of our
          > personal meat puppets to the
          > unknowable (aka "Holy
          > Spirit") with "knowing God"
          > or some such -- our heads
          > are full of old scripture
          > vouchsafing this knowledge
          > to us, so in the aftermoment
          > ego "backfills" the miracle
          > of realization with that
          > stuff and we are quite prone
          > to claiming that we now
          > "know God." It sure sounds
          > good from the pulpit too!
          >
          > > Thanks, Bruce. Always
          > > enjoy your perspective.
          > >
          >
          > Right back atcha, Jeff!
          >
          > > Jeff
          > >
          > Much love -- Bruce
          >

          Interesting syntax -
          ego backfilling vs new
          enlightened understanding
          of scripture. There would
          be more of a case for the
          headroom filled with
          scripture that is used
          by the ego to backfill,
          if the backfilling were
          model specific (the home
          of the fundamentalist),
          but when the knowledge
          with a capital K (a literary
          and graphic design convention,
          I know) reveals a core
          understanding in all
          spiritual traditions
          (the mystical path),
          the case is less
          convincing.

          The meat puppets who
          think morph into meat
          puppets who have a
          pseudo-spiritual experience?

          Cosmic, man.

          I'll take theist language,
          thanks. Sure sounds better
          from the pulpit - especially
          when it comes from the
          mystic heart of Knowledge.

          Thanks,

          Cosmic Man

          PS: Just had flashback
          to the punch and Judy days.
        • Bruce Morgen
          Jeff knows this, but just for clarity: I m not questioning his authenticity, just noting what I see as the pitfalls of adopting theistic expression. We all
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 17, 2008
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            Jeff knows this, but just for
            clarity: I'm not questioning
            his authenticity, just noting
            what I see as the pitfalls of
            adopting theistic expression.
            We all have to weigh pulpit
            impact vs. possibly misleading
            or occluding effects, and we
            tend to make our calls based
            on conditioning -- both the
            environmental conditioning of
            our upbringings (cum other
            formative experiences) and the
            biological/genetic conditioning
            that determines our places on
            the bhakta-jnana spectrum.

            Thanks for the dialogue, Jeff!


            Jeff Belyea wrote:
            > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
            > <editor@...> wrote:
            >
            >> Jeff Belyea wrote:
            >>
            >>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
            >>> <editor@> wrote:
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>> Jeff Belyea wrote:
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>> In response to Bob and Bruce's
            >>>>> response to Era's post about
            >>>>> "knowing God"...
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Here's my "little bit of this,
            >>>>> little bit of that" from my dance:
            >>>>>
            >>>>> >From The Old Testament
            >>>>> (repeated in the New One
            >>>>> and reference several times
            >>>>> as "having come to pass"):
            >>>>>
            >>>>> "Behold, the days come,
            >>>>> saith the LORD, that I
            >>>>> will make a a new covenant...
            >>>>>
            >>>>> I will put my law in their
            >>>>> inward parts, and write it in
            >>>>> their hearts; ...
            >>>>>
            >>>>> they shall all know me."
            >>>>>
            >>>>> So, if the wise say that
            >>>>> they know that God is
            >>>>> unknowable, they err. And
            >>>>> they are wise in their
            >>>>> own mind - which is
            >>>>> incidently the major block
            >>>>> to enlightenment.
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Enlightenment IS coming
            >>>>> into the knowledgable
            >>>>> presence of God..
            >>>>> as promised.
            >>>>>
            >>>>> I know God.
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Formally introduced
            >>>>> July 21, many years ago,
            >>>>> at about 9:30am.
            >>>>>
            >>>>> And we continue to
            >>>>> stay in touch.
            >>>>>
            >>>>> Call me ignorant if
            >>>>> you must. God knows.
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>>>
            >>>> I see you as not "ignorant,"
            >>>> but perhaps playing somewhat
            >>>> fast and loose with the word
            >>>> "knowledge," which essentially
            >>>> means "stored information."
            >>>>
            >>>> As an illustration, can you
            >>>> tell me what it is you "know"
            >>>> of this "God?"
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>>>
            >>> It is the inadequacy of words
            >>> to explain the fuller meaning
            >>> of "Knowledge" in the context
            >>> of my earlier post that makes it
            >>> seem as a fast and loose dance.
            >>>
            >>>
            >> True.
            >>
            >>
            >>> Knowledge becomes secondary stored
            >>> information when it enters
            >>> the necessarily dualistic world
            >>> of mental reflection and any
            >>> attempt at "telling".
            >>>
            >>>
            >> True.
            >>
            >>
            >>> God can be Known, but God
            >>> cannot be explained in words;
            >>> only Known by direct experience...
            >>> which, to be redundant, is
            >>> beyond words.
            >>>
            >>>
            >> Iow, "unknowable" -- and
            >> capitalizing that "K"
            >> doesn't change that fact.
            >>
            >> Please consider that
            >> fortunate "realized" folks
            >> still have the failings of
            >> incarnate life to deal with.
            >> Religious conditioning is
            >> especially problematic and
            >> can easily lead to mistaking
            >> the ecstatic response of our
            >> personal meat puppets to the
            >> unknowable (aka "Holy
            >> Spirit") with "knowing God"
            >> or some such -- our heads
            >> are full of old scripture
            >> vouchsafing this knowledge
            >> to us, so in the aftermoment
            >> ego "backfills" the miracle
            >> of realization with that
            >> stuff and we are quite prone
            >> to claiming that we now
            >> "know God." It sure sounds
            >> good from the pulpit too!
            >>
            >>
            >>> Thanks, Bruce. Always
            >>> enjoy your perspective.
            >>>
            >>>
            >> Right back atcha, Jeff!
            >>
            >>
            >>> Jeff
            >>>
            >>>
            >> Much love -- Bruce
            >>
            >>
            >
            > Interesting syntax -
            > ego backfilling vs new
            > enlightened understanding
            > of scripture. There would
            > be more of a case for the
            > headroom filled with
            > scripture that is used
            > by the ego to backfill,
            > if the backfilling were
            > model specific (the home
            > of the fundamentalist),
            > but when the knowledge
            > with a capital K (a literary
            > and graphic design convention,
            > I know) reveals a core
            > understanding in all
            > spiritual traditions
            > (the mystical path),
            > the case is less
            > convincing.
            >
            > The meat puppets who
            > think morph into meat
            > puppets who have a
            > pseudo-spiritual experience?
            >
            > Cosmic, man.
            >
            > I'll take theist language,
            > thanks. Sure sounds better
            > from the pulpit - especially
            > when it comes from the
            > mystic heart of Knowledge.
            >
            > Thanks,
            >
            > Cosmic Man
            >
            > PS: Just had flashback
            > to the punch and Judy days.
            >
            >
          • Jeff Belyea
            ... You re welcome, Bruce. True, your responses to me are never taken as questioning authenticity. I couldn t help but note the plot twist at the end of your
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 17, 2008
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              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:
              >
              > Jeff knows this, but just for
              > clarity: I'm not questioning
              > his authenticity, just noting
              > what I see as the pitfalls of
              > adopting theistic expression.
              > We all have to weigh pulpit
              > impact vs. possibly misleading
              > or occluding effects, and we
              > tend to make our calls based
              > on conditioning -- both the
              > environmental conditioning of
              > our upbringings (cum other
              > formative experiences) and the
              > biological/genetic conditioning
              > that determines our places on
              > the bhakta-jnana spectrum.
              >
              > Thanks for the dialogue, Jeff!

              You're welcome, Bruce.
              True, your responses to
              me are never taken as
              questioning authenticity.

              I couldn't help but note
              the "plot twist" at the end
              of your post. Two of us
              from Judeo (you)-Christian (me)
              backgrounds discussing
              the pros and pitfalls of
              theistic language ends with
              a reference to the bhakta-
              jnana spectrum. Smilling.

              How about, God is knowable,
              but not wordable?

              Peace, love and blessings,

              Jeff

              PS: Not sure why you mixed
              in the little aside about fortunate
              "realized" ones having to cope with
              the slings and arrows of life on
              earth, but, of course, agreed.

              Above the fray (in a way), but not
              above stubbing a toe on a bedpost
              during a night-time sojourn...
              and spouting a burst of profanity.





              >
              >
              > Jeff Belyea wrote:
              > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
              > > <editor@> wrote:
              > >
              > >> Jeff Belyea wrote:
              > >>
              > >>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
              > >>> <editor@> wrote:
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>> Jeff Belyea wrote:
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>> In response to Bob and Bruce's
              > >>>>> response to Era's post about
              > >>>>> "knowing God"...
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>> Here's my "little bit of this,
              > >>>>> little bit of that" from my dance:
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>> >From The Old Testament
              > >>>>> (repeated in the New One
              > >>>>> and reference several times
              > >>>>> as "having come to pass"):
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>> "Behold, the days come,
              > >>>>> saith the LORD, that I
              > >>>>> will make a a new covenant...
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>> I will put my law in their
              > >>>>> inward parts, and write it in
              > >>>>> their hearts; ...
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>> they shall all know me."
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>> So, if the wise say that
              > >>>>> they know that God is
              > >>>>> unknowable, they err. And
              > >>>>> they are wise in their
              > >>>>> own mind - which is
              > >>>>> incidently the major block
              > >>>>> to enlightenment.
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>> Enlightenment IS coming
              > >>>>> into the knowledgable
              > >>>>> presence of God..
              > >>>>> as promised.
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>> I know God.
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>> Formally introduced
              > >>>>> July 21, many years ago,
              > >>>>> at about 9:30am.
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>> And we continue to
              > >>>>> stay in touch.
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>> Call me ignorant if
              > >>>>> you must. God knows.
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>>>
              > >>>> I see you as not "ignorant,"
              > >>>> but perhaps playing somewhat
              > >>>> fast and loose with the word
              > >>>> "knowledge," which essentially
              > >>>> means "stored information."
              > >>>>
              > >>>> As an illustration, can you
              > >>>> tell me what it is you "know"
              > >>>> of this "God?"
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>>>
              > >>> It is the inadequacy of words
              > >>> to explain the fuller meaning
              > >>> of "Knowledge" in the context
              > >>> of my earlier post that makes it
              > >>> seem as a fast and loose dance.
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >> True.
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>> Knowledge becomes secondary stored
              > >>> information when it enters
              > >>> the necessarily dualistic world
              > >>> of mental reflection and any
              > >>> attempt at "telling".
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >> True.
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>> God can be Known, but God
              > >>> cannot be explained in words;
              > >>> only Known by direct experience...
              > >>> which, to be redundant, is
              > >>> beyond words.
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >> Iow, "unknowable" -- and
              > >> capitalizing that "K"
              > >> doesn't change that fact.
              > >>
              > >> Please consider that
              > >> fortunate "realized" folks
              > >> still have the failings of
              > >> incarnate life to deal with.
              > >> Religious conditioning is
              > >> especially problematic and
              > >> can easily lead to mistaking
              > >> the ecstatic response of our
              > >> personal meat puppets to the
              > >> unknowable (aka "Holy
              > >> Spirit") with "knowing God"
              > >> or some such -- our heads
              > >> are full of old scripture
              > >> vouchsafing this knowledge
              > >> to us, so in the aftermoment
              > >> ego "backfills" the miracle
              > >> of realization with that
              > >> stuff and we are quite prone
              > >> to claiming that we now
              > >> "know God." It sure sounds
              > >> good from the pulpit too!
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>> Thanks, Bruce. Always
              > >>> enjoy your perspective.
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >> Right back atcha, Jeff!
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>> Jeff
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >> Much love -- Bruce
              > >>
              > >>
              > >
              > > Interesting syntax -
              > > ego backfilling vs new
              > > enlightened understanding
              > > of scripture. There would
              > > be more of a case for the
              > > headroom filled with
              > > scripture that is used
              > > by the ego to backfill,
              > > if the backfilling were
              > > model specific (the home
              > > of the fundamentalist),
              > > but when the knowledge
              > > with a capital K (a literary
              > > and graphic design convention,
              > > I know) reveals a core
              > > understanding in all
              > > spiritual traditions
              > > (the mystical path),
              > > the case is less
              > > convincing.
              > >
              > > The meat puppets who
              > > think morph into meat
              > > puppets who have a
              > > pseudo-spiritual experience?
              > >
              > > Cosmic, man.
              > >
              > > I'll take theist language,
              > > thanks. Sure sounds better
              > > from the pulpit - especially
              > > when it comes from the
              > > mystic heart of Knowledge.
              > >
              > > Thanks,
              > >
              > > Cosmic Man
              > >
              > > PS: Just had flashback
              > > to the punch and Judy days.
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Bruce Morgen
              ... No sale -- but thanks for playing! :-) ... Right back atcha! ... Because our language preferences tend to be part and parcel of conditioning
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 17, 2008
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                Jeff Belyea wrote:
                > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:
                >
                >> Jeff knows this, but just for
                >> clarity: I'm not questioning
                >> his authenticity, just noting
                >> what I see as the pitfalls of
                >> adopting theistic expression.
                >> We all have to weigh pulpit
                >> impact vs. possibly misleading
                >> or occluding effects, and we
                >> tend to make our calls based
                >> on conditioning -- both the
                >> environmental conditioning of
                >> our upbringings (cum other
                >> formative experiences) and the
                >> biological/genetic conditioning
                >> that determines our places on
                >> the bhakta-jnana spectrum.
                >>
                >> Thanks for the dialogue, Jeff!
                >>
                >
                > You're welcome, Bruce.
                > True, your responses to
                > me are never taken as
                > questioning authenticity.
                >
                > I couldn't help but note
                > the "plot twist" at the end
                > of your post. Two of us
                > from Judeo (you)-Christian (me)
                > backgrounds discussing
                > the pros and pitfalls of
                > theistic language ends with
                > a reference to the bhakta-
                > jnana spectrum. Smilling.
                >
                > How about, God is knowable,
                > but not wordable?
                >

                No sale -- but thanks for
                playing! :-)

                > Peace, love and blessings,
                >

                Right back atcha!

                > Jeff
                >
                > PS: Not sure why you mixed
                > in the little aside about fortunate
                > "realized" ones having to cope with
                > the slings and arrows of life on
                > earth, but, of course, agreed.
                >
                Because our language
                preferences tend to be part
                and parcel of conditioning
                rather than imparted by our
                "Holy Spirit" encounter(s).

                > Above the fray (in a way), but not
                > above stubbing a toe on a bedpost
                > during a night-time sojourn...
                > and spouting a burst of profanity.
                >
                bcnu around, Jeff!

                >
                >
                >
                >> Jeff Belyea wrote:
                >>
                >>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
                >>> <editor@> wrote:
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>> Jeff Belyea wrote:
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
                >>>>> <editor@> wrote:
                >>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>>> Jeff Belyea wrote:
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>> In response to Bob and Bruce's
                >>>>>>> response to Era's post about
                >>>>>>> "knowing God"...
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>> Here's my "little bit of this,
                >>>>>>> little bit of that" from my dance:
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>> >From The Old Testament
                >>>>>>> (repeated in the New One
                >>>>>>> and reference several times
                >>>>>>> as "having come to pass"):
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>> "Behold, the days come,
                >>>>>>> saith the LORD, that I
                >>>>>>> will make a a new covenant...
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>> I will put my law in their
                >>>>>>> inward parts, and write it in
                >>>>>>> their hearts; ...
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>> they shall all know me."
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>> So, if the wise say that
                >>>>>>> they know that God is
                >>>>>>> unknowable, they err. And
                >>>>>>> they are wise in their
                >>>>>>> own mind - which is
                >>>>>>> incidently the major block
                >>>>>>> to enlightenment.
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>> Enlightenment IS coming
                >>>>>>> into the knowledgable
                >>>>>>> presence of God..
                >>>>>>> as promised.
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>> I know God.
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>> Formally introduced
                >>>>>>> July 21, many years ago,
                >>>>>>> at about 9:30am.
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>> And we continue to
                >>>>>>> stay in touch.
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>> Call me ignorant if
                >>>>>>> you must. God knows.
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>>>
                >>>>>> I see you as not "ignorant,"
                >>>>>> but perhaps playing somewhat
                >>>>>> fast and loose with the word
                >>>>>> "knowledge," which essentially
                >>>>>> means "stored information."
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>> As an illustration, can you
                >>>>>> tell me what it is you "know"
                >>>>>> of this "God?"
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>
                >>>>> It is the inadequacy of words
                >>>>> to explain the fuller meaning
                >>>>> of "Knowledge" in the context
                >>>>> of my earlier post that makes it
                >>>>> seem as a fast and loose dance.
                >>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>> True.
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>>> Knowledge becomes secondary stored
                >>>>> information when it enters
                >>>>> the necessarily dualistic world
                >>>>> of mental reflection and any
                >>>>> attempt at "telling".
                >>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>> True.
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>>> God can be Known, but God
                >>>>> cannot be explained in words;
                >>>>> only Known by direct experience...
                >>>>> which, to be redundant, is
                >>>>> beyond words.
                >>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>> Iow, "unknowable" -- and
                >>>> capitalizing that "K"
                >>>> doesn't change that fact.
                >>>>
                >>>> Please consider that
                >>>> fortunate "realized" folks
                >>>> still have the failings of
                >>>> incarnate life to deal with.
                >>>> Religious conditioning is
                >>>> especially problematic and
                >>>> can easily lead to mistaking
                >>>> the ecstatic response of our
                >>>> personal meat puppets to the
                >>>> unknowable (aka "Holy
                >>>> Spirit") with "knowing God"
                >>>> or some such -- our heads
                >>>> are full of old scripture
                >>>> vouchsafing this knowledge
                >>>> to us, so in the aftermoment
                >>>> ego "backfills" the miracle
                >>>> of realization with that
                >>>> stuff and we are quite prone
                >>>> to claiming that we now
                >>>> "know God." It sure sounds
                >>>> good from the pulpit too!
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>>> Thanks, Bruce. Always
                >>>>> enjoy your perspective.
                >>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>> Right back atcha, Jeff!
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>>> Jeff
                >>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>> Much love -- Bruce
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>>>
                >>> Interesting syntax -
                >>> ego backfilling vs new
                >>> enlightened understanding
                >>> of scripture. There would
                >>> be more of a case for the
                >>> headroom filled with
                >>> scripture that is used
                >>> by the ego to backfill,
                >>> if the backfilling were
                >>> model specific (the home
                >>> of the fundamentalist),
                >>> but when the knowledge
                >>> with a capital K (a literary
                >>> and graphic design convention,
                >>> I know) reveals a core
                >>> understanding in all
                >>> spiritual traditions
                >>> (the mystical path),
                >>> the case is less
                >>> convincing.
                >>>
                >>> The meat puppets who
                >>> think morph into meat
                >>> puppets who have a
                >>> pseudo-spiritual experience?
                >>>
                >>> Cosmic, man.
                >>>
                >>> I'll take theist language,
                >>> thanks. Sure sounds better
                >>> from the pulpit - especially
                >>> when it comes from the
                >>> mystic heart of Knowledge.
                >>>
                >>> Thanks,
                >>>
                >>> Cosmic Man
                >>>
                >>> PS: Just had flashback
                >>> to the punch and Judy days.
                >>>
                >>>
              • sean tremblay
                Gods favorite color is Blue God is a people person God likes water, sunshine and the outdoors God loves astronomy I m not sure what Gods musical preference is
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 18, 2008
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                  Gods favorite color is Blue
                  God is a people person
                  God likes water,
                   sunshine
                  and the outdoors
                  God loves astronomy
                  I'm not sure what Gods musical preference is
                  God looks nothing like Gorge Burns
                  But I'm sure God would enjoy a good cigar(who doesnt)
                  Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:
                  Jeff Belyea wrote:
                  > In response to Bob and Bruce's
                  > response to Era's post about
                  > "knowing God"...
                  >
                  > Here's my "little bit of this,
                  > little bit of that" from my dance:
                  >
                  > >From The Old Testament
                  > (repeated in the New One
                  > and reference several times
                  > as "having come to pass"):
                  >
                  > "Behold, the days come,
                  > saith the LORD, that I
                  > will make a a new covenant...
                  >
                  > I will put my law in their
                  > inward parts, and write it in
                  > their hearts; ...
                  >
                  > they shall all know me."
                  >
                  > So, if the wise say that
                  > they know that God is
                  > unknowable, they err. And
                  > they are wise in their
                  > own mind - which is
                  > incidently the major block
                  > to enlightenment.
                  >
                  > Enlightenment IS coming
                  > into the knowledgable
                  > presence of God..
                  > as promised.
                  >
                  > I know God.
                  >
                  > Formally introduced
                  > July 21, many years ago,
                  > at about 9:30am.
                  >
                  > And we continue to
                  > stay in touch.
                  >
                  > Call me ignorant if
                  > you must. God knows.
                  >
                  I see you as not "ignorant,"
                  but perhaps playing somewhat
                  fast and loose with the word
                  "knowledge," which essentially
                  means "stored information. "

                  As an illustration, can you
                  tell me what it is you "know"
                  of this "God?"



                  Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                • Jeff Belyea
                  God s musical preference is the harp...not the wimpy harp, but more of the Blues Travelers lung-rippin harp.
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 18, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    God's musical preference
                    is the harp...not the wimpy
                    harp, but more of the Blues
                    Travelers lung-rippin' harp.


                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
                    <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Gods favorite color is Blue
                    > God is a people person
                    > God likes water,
                    > sunshine
                    > and the outdoors
                    > God loves astronomy
                    > I'm not sure what Gods musical preference is
                    > God looks nothing like Gorge Burns
                    > But I'm sure God would enjoy a good cigar(who doesnt)
                    > Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:
                    > Jeff Belyea wrote:
                    > > In response to Bob and Bruce's
                    > > response to Era's post about
                    > > "knowing God"...
                    > >
                    > > Here's my "little bit of this,
                    > > little bit of that" from my dance:
                    > >
                    > > >From The Old Testament
                    > > (repeated in the New One
                    > > and reference several times
                    > > as "having come to pass"):
                    > >
                    > > "Behold, the days come,
                    > > saith the LORD, that I
                    > > will make a a new covenant...
                    > >
                    > > I will put my law in their
                    > > inward parts, and write it in
                    > > their hearts; ...
                    > >
                    > > they shall all know me."
                    > >
                    > > So, if the wise say that
                    > > they know that God is
                    > > unknowable, they err. And
                    > > they are wise in their
                    > > own mind - which is
                    > > incidently the major block
                    > > to enlightenment.
                    > >
                    > > Enlightenment IS coming
                    > > into the knowledgable
                    > > presence of God..
                    > > as promised.
                    > >
                    > > I know God.
                    > >
                    > > Formally introduced
                    > > July 21, many years ago,
                    > > at about 9:30am.
                    > >
                    > > And we continue to
                    > > stay in touch.
                    > >
                    > > Call me ignorant if
                    > > you must. God knows.
                    > >
                    > I see you as not "ignorant,"
                    > but perhaps playing somewhat
                    > fast and loose with the word
                    > "knowledge," which essentially
                    > means "stored information."
                    >
                    > As an illustration, can you
                    > tell me what it is you "know"
                    > of this "God?"
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
                    >
                  • Bruce Morgen
                    nuff said....
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 18, 2008
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                      <http://youtube.com/watch?v=OmC4SJ42Z-s>

                      'nuff said....


                      Jeff Belyea wrote:
                      > God's musical preference
                      > is the harp...not the wimpy
                      > harp, but more of the Blues
                      > Travelers lung-rippin' harp.
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
                      > <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >> Gods favorite color is Blue
                      >> God is a people person
                      >> God likes water,
                      >> sunshine
                      >> and the outdoors
                      >> God loves astronomy
                      >> I'm not sure what Gods musical preference is
                      >> God looks nothing like Gorge Burns
                      >> But I'm sure God would enjoy a good cigar(who doesnt)
                      >> Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:
                      >> Jeff Belyea wrote:
                      >>
                      >>> In response to Bob and Bruce's
                      >>> response to Era's post about
                      >>> "knowing God"...
                      >>>
                      >>> Here's my "little bit of this,
                      >>> little bit of that" from my dance:
                      >>>
                      >>> >From The Old Testament
                      >>> (repeated in the New One
                      >>> and reference several times
                      >>> as "having come to pass"):
                      >>>
                      >>> "Behold, the days come,
                      >>> saith the LORD, that I
                      >>> will make a a new covenant...
                      >>>
                      >>> I will put my law in their
                      >>> inward parts, and write it in
                      >>> their hearts; ...
                      >>>
                      >>> they shall all know me."
                      >>>
                      >>> So, if the wise say that
                      >>> they know that God is
                      >>> unknowable, they err. And
                      >>> they are wise in their
                      >>> own mind - which is
                      >>> incidently the major block
                      >>> to enlightenment.
                      >>>
                      >>> Enlightenment IS coming
                      >>> into the knowledgable
                      >>> presence of God..
                      >>> as promised.
                      >>>
                      >>> I know God.
                      >>>
                      >>> Formally introduced
                      >>> July 21, many years ago,
                      >>> at about 9:30am.
                      >>>
                      >>> And we continue to
                      >>> stay in touch.
                      >>>
                      >>> Call me ignorant if
                      >>> you must. God knows.
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >> I see you as not "ignorant,"
                      >> but perhaps playing somewhat
                      >> fast and loose with the word
                      >> "knowledge," which essentially
                      >> means "stored information."
                      >>
                      >> As an illustration, can you
                      >> tell me what it is you "know"
                      >> of this "God?"
                      >>
                    • Jeff Belyea
                      heavenly
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jan 18, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        heavenly

                        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
                        <editor@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > <http://youtube.com/watch?v=OmC4SJ42Z-s>
                        >
                        > 'nuff said....
                        >
                        >
                        > Jeff Belyea wrote:
                        > > God's musical preference
                        > > is the harp...not the wimpy
                        > > harp, but more of the Blues
                        > > Travelers lung-rippin' harp.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
                        > > <bethjams9@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >> Gods favorite color is Blue
                        > >> God is a people person
                        > >> God likes water,
                        > >> sunshine
                        > >> and the outdoors
                        > >> God loves astronomy
                        > >> I'm not sure what Gods musical preference is
                        > >> God looks nothing like Gorge Burns
                        > >> But I'm sure God would enjoy a good cigar(who doesnt)
                        > >> Bruce Morgen <editor@> wrote:
                        > >> Jeff Belyea wrote:
                        > >>
                        > >>> In response to Bob and Bruce's
                        > >>> response to Era's post about
                        > >>> "knowing God"...
                        > >>>
                        > >>> Here's my "little bit of this,
                        > >>> little bit of that" from my dance:
                        > >>>
                        > >>> >From The Old Testament
                        > >>> (repeated in the New One
                        > >>> and reference several times
                        > >>> as "having come to pass"):
                        > >>>
                        > >>> "Behold, the days come,
                        > >>> saith the LORD, that I
                        > >>> will make a a new covenant...
                        > >>>
                        > >>> I will put my law in their
                        > >>> inward parts, and write it in
                        > >>> their hearts; ...
                        > >>>
                        > >>> they shall all know me."
                        > >>>
                        > >>> So, if the wise say that
                        > >>> they know that God is
                        > >>> unknowable, they err. And
                        > >>> they are wise in their
                        > >>> own mind - which is
                        > >>> incidently the major block
                        > >>> to enlightenment.
                        > >>>
                        > >>> Enlightenment IS coming
                        > >>> into the knowledgable
                        > >>> presence of God..
                        > >>> as promised.
                        > >>>
                        > >>> I know God.
                        > >>>
                        > >>> Formally introduced
                        > >>> July 21, many years ago,
                        > >>> at about 9:30am.
                        > >>>
                        > >>> And we continue to
                        > >>> stay in touch.
                        > >>>
                        > >>> Call me ignorant if
                        > >>> you must. God knows.
                        > >>>
                        > >>>
                        > >> I see you as not "ignorant,"
                        > >> but perhaps playing somewhat
                        > >> fast and loose with the word
                        > >> "knowledge," which essentially
                        > >> means "stored information."
                        > >>
                        > >> As an illustration, can you
                        > >> tell me what it is you "know"
                        > >> of this "God?"
                        > >>
                        >
                      • Aideen McKenna
                        Oh thank you – that video made my week! _____ From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jan 18, 2008
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                          Oh thank you – that video made my week!

                           


                          From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bruce Morgen
                          Sent: January 18, 2008 10:30 AM
                          To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America ] Mambo #5 with God

                           

                          <http://youtube. com/watch? v=OmC4SJ42Z- s>

                          'nuff said....

                          Jeff Belyea wrote:

                          > God's musical preference
                          > is the harp...not the wimpy
                          > harp, but more of the Blues
                          > Travelers lung-rippin' harp.
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com,
                          sean tremblay
                          > <bethjams9@. ..> wrote:
                          >
                          >> Gods favorite color is Blue
                          >> God is a people person
                          >> God likes water,
                          >> sunshine
                          >> and the outdoors
                          >> God loves astronomy
                          >> I'm not sure what Gods musical preference is
                          >> God looks nothing like Gorge Burns
                          >> But I'm sure God would enjoy a good cigar(who doesnt)
                          >> Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:
                          >> Jeff Belyea wrote:
                          >>
                          >>> In response to Bob and Bruce's
                          >>> response to Era's post about
                          >>> "knowing God"...
                          >>>
                          >>> Here's my "little bit of this,
                          >>> little bit of that" from my dance:
                          >>>
                          >>> >From The Old Testament
                          >>> (repeated in the New One
                          >>> and reference several times
                          >>> as "having come to pass"):
                          >>>
                          >>> "Behold, the days come,
                          >>> saith the LORD, that I
                          >>> will make a a new covenant...
                          >>>
                          >>> I will put my law in their
                          >>> inward parts, and write it in
                          >>> their hearts; ...
                          >>>
                          >>> they shall all know me."
                          >>>
                          >>> So, if the wise say that
                          >>> they know that God is
                          >>> unknowable, they err. And
                          >>> they are wise in their
                          >>> own mind - which is
                          >>> incidently the major block
                          >>> to enlightenment.
                          >>>
                          >>> Enlightenment IS coming
                          >>> into the knowledgable
                          >>> presence of God..
                          >>> as promised.
                          >>>
                          >>> I know God.
                          >>>
                          >>> Formally introduced
                          >>> July 21, many years ago,
                          >>> at about 9:30am.
                          >>>
                          >>> And we continue to
                          >>> stay in touch.
                          >>>
                          >>> Call me ignorant if
                          >>> you must. God knows.
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >> I see you as not "ignorant,"
                          >> but perhaps playing somewhat
                          >> fast and loose with the word
                          >> "knowledge," which essentially
                          >> means "stored information. "
                          >>
                          >> As an illustration, can you
                          >> tell me what it is you "know"
                          >> of this "God?"
                          >>


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