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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: The power of knowledge gives you an extra ed

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  • C. Joubert
    Ted, That s beautiful. I m a stay at home mom to a 3 year old girl and it is amazing. There is no place I d rather be than holding her, hearing her thoughts,
    Message 1 of 65 , Aug 27, 2007
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      Ted,
      That's beautiful. I'm a stay at home mom to a 3 year old girl and it is amazing. There is no place I'd rather be than holding her, hearing her thoughts, or watching her figure something out for the first time. Blessing upon your family for taking in the outcast children and providing them the love of a parent. That's life you've given them.
       
      Candy
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Ted
      Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:11 PM
      Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: The power of knowledge gives you an extra ed

      Nice to meet you too, Sean.  Sure, we're talking.  And thanks.  The
      fact is, though, those kids are the greatest gift.  My boy, when he
      came, was as wild as one can imagine, worse probably.  Today I stood
      at the end of our long drive and watched the kids get off the bus at
      the other end.  When he saw me he ran the whole way, almost a quarter
      of a mile, to give me a hug.  That says it all.

      The funny thing is, I never wanted kids.  The foster idea was to make
      my wife happy, the last ditch effort to get kids.  We'd tried
      everything else.  I had figured when we had kids I'd really be
      isolated as my wife would have the kids.  It's incredible how wrong I
      was.  Kids are heart melters.  Some time I'll have to tell about
      Football... a baby we had I dubbed Football because he looked just
      like one naked.  He was five days old when we got him.  Turned out he
      was blind.  CPS yanked him from us and gave him back to his mother in
      drug rehab after we had him three months.  They gave us ten hours
      notice.  As with all foster kids, I have no idea what happened to him.
       Talk about a heart ripper...

      Well, again, glad to met ya.  Off now to get some sleep before I rouse
      the kids for school in the morning.



      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
      <bethjams9@...> wrote:
      >
      > Ted koodo's and much respect,  there are alot of good kids (all of
      them are good) and its nice to see folks or so willing to provide the
      love they need.  I've done the stay at home Dad thing in spurts for a
      month here and there.  And I do enjoy it. 
      >   y wife and I make a good team as far as trading off and partnering
      together with all the child stuff and thats what it takes for us
      professionaly and personnaly but again the fostering and adoption I
      greatly admire.  Ive heard alot of people say they don't want kids my
      reply is Good I'm glad you know that and please don't.
      >   Also I'm glad you got a kick out of my outburst, It does just kind
      of slip out sometimes when your tired and you just want to read an
      interesting thought on a chat sight and somebody's trying to sell you
      something real or imaginary, sometimes you just want to tell them
      where a bear shits.
      >   But at least we are all talking again
      >   by the way
      >   nice to meet you
      >  
      >
      > Ted <txhandyman57@...> wrote:
      >           Gee thanks! Gee, look how many times I used Gee! haha
      >
      > I do appreciate your kind words. Some folks aren't so understanding.
      >
      > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Grace Yllana
      > <yllanagr@> wrote:
      > >
      > > I am soooooo impressed with stay at home dads...great example..
      > >
      > > Ted <txhandyman57@> wrote: Gee,
      > Sean, 'tis an interesting life you've lived. I've been around
      > > the block once or twice but hardly with such adventure. What you say
      > > about kids, though, I certainly understand.
      > >
      > > Three and a half years ago I was a 46 year old guy, married 25 years
      > > to a wonderful wife, but never had any little feet in our house. Bad
      > > biology. Then one Indian Summer morning in early February Child
      > > Protective Services caseworkers delivered for of the most
      > > ragged-looking kids you've ever seen. A couple of weeks later my job
      > > evaporated and I became home-daddy to those four, ages 20 months to 7
      > > years. Talk about a new perspective!
      > >
      > > Since then we've had a total of ten foster kids (up to six at a time!)
      > > from ages five days to 13 years. I've learned more about life, love,
      > > and myself in the past few years than in all my rambling days before.
      > > Kids are our best teachers. I get all kinds of odd looks when I say I
      > > stay at home with kids... a man of my age being a "housewife!" I've
      > > had people think all kinds of unkind things of me simply because I'm
      > > not out winning bread. In our case it worked this way. My wife had a
      > > great career she loved and I had a short-term crummy job. Anyway, I
      > > don't care what anyone says, these years at home with kids I wouldn't
      > > trade for a trip to the moon... and I really want to go to the moon!
      > >
      > > Once upon a time I was as stoic as they come. Now I'm a walking
      > > mush-bucket. One upon a time I didn't know what true compassion was.
      > > Now I'm just too much of a softie.
      > >
      > > You are right, too, kids live in a lightness of being. I think it's
      > > because they live in the here-and-now far more than we do. They can't
      > > even understand some of the things we have discovered, experienced,
      > > and that have made us rough around the edges. Kids are bright, too.
      > > Mine always amaze me with their intuition. My boy looks up to me as
      > > his hero. What he doesn't realize is that he's my hero, too.
      > >
      > > Grab every moment you can with those wee ones. They're gone so fast.
      > > We quit fostering in 2005 a few months after we adopted three. I
      > > settled in to write. I was home with my little girl school year
      > > before last. We had many quality days together. I turned her loose
      > > on a computer and she figured the thing out all by herself. But then,
      > > alas, she started Kindergarten and now she's in first grade and
      > > they're all inches taller, smarter, stronger, and older. In a few
      > > short--way too short--years they'll all be off doing their own thing.
      > > Time is indeed a thief. It can't steal away those memories, though.
      > >
      > > *Sigh* don't mind me, it's the first week of school here. Kids gone
      > > all day now. All summer I had them pestering me while I tried to
      > > write and always available for hugs. Doggone it if they didn't all
      > > rush off to school (except my boy who had to be pushed a little) and
      > > Daddy was the one bawling like a baby. Sad, huh?
      > >
      > > OK, so there. Daddy has spoken.
      > >
      > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
      > > <bethjams9@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Jeff,
      > > > I've had a revelationion this morning, something I have been
      > > trying to articulate. In life I guess I've gleened some insights
      > > about people and things. I've been to the bottom of the ocean and
      > > around the world, I've played cards with prostitutes, drank cheap wine
      > > with bums, flown with CEO's in private jets and dined with
      > > millionairs. All these things have taught me something, but thier is
      > > also something I've lost, something I've wittnessed with my kids.
      > > It's a lightness of being, I remember it well, that garden of eden but
      > > I can't seem to get back to it, I catch glimpses of it. With every
      > > pain felt or experienced or witnessed it seems I have grown harder and
      > > denser like the callouses of my hands. The worlds edges that define
      > > the boundry of objects in view seem sharper. And the yoga and
      > > meditaion under the wise tutorage of my wife just don't seem to be
      > > enough, I supose I need to spend more time with my kids and rediscover
      > > the joy of finding butterfly eggs or a tree
      > > > frog or simply hanging out and realy enjoying chocolate milk.
      > > >
      > > > Jeff Belyea <jeff@> wrote:
      > > > Hey Sean, I love your humor
      > > > and your colorful play of words.
      > > >
      > > > Email and online discussions
      > > > do tend to flatten the tone,
      > > > and often tongue-in-check
      > > > humor can sound sarcastic,
      > > > and beside the point. But...
      > > >
      > > > You seem to be one of those
      > > > writers who layers their prose
      > > > with several meanings. Some
      > > > are good at reading this, and
      > > > some miss all but the superficial
      > > > layer. Not to worry. It's all
      > > > perfect.
      > > >
      > > > Love, as always,
      > > >
      > > > Jeff
      > > >
      > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
      > > > <bethjams9@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > I guess thats what I was trying to say.....thanks Jeff. I
      > suppose I
      > > > have a courser manner of putting it and a bit crass as well, but
      > > > thats my humor of couse nobody can hear the inflections of tone
      > in my
      > > > voice. There are those out there who seek to lead others and there
      > > > are those out there who seek to be lead.. hence drugged monkeys and
      > > > organ grinders.
      > > > > I do supose it's not my role to correct this it's as as humanity
      > > > itself, and the Buddha cautioned against taking anybodies word a
      > face
      > > > value even his. I of course don't have the patience of the Buddha
      > > > > But I am glad we got the ball rolling again and thier are some
      > > > real discusions taking place
      > > > > Thanks guy's
      > > > >
      > > > > Jeff Belyea <jeff@> wrote:
      > > > > I hope to add clarity here
      > > > > and not confusion...
      > > > >
      > > > > While it is ultimately true
      > > > > that there is no seeking and
      > > > > nothing to be sought...it is
      > > > > a matter of timing.
      > > > >
      > > > > When we are stirred by the
      > > > > sense of unhappiness or "something
      > > > > missing" in our lives, we do
      > > > > initially seek an ineffable
      > > > > "something" to satisfy the longing
      > > > > for contentment and happiness.
      > > > >
      > > > > Often, that occurs to us as
      > > > > a new job, new car, bigger house,
      > > > > bigger muscles, success on our
      > > > > terms, new relationships, and so on.
      > > > >
      > > > > But when we achieve any or all
      > > > > of these "things", we find that
      > > > > the longing remains and we hear
      > > > > the old refrain, "Is this all there
      > > > > is?"...and we're back on the search,
      > > > > again.
      > > > >
      > > > > However, as tough as it may be
      > > > > to swallow, the paradox is that
      > > > > we must give up the search (the
      > > > > seduction as Sean described it)
      > > > > and come to a place of absolute
      > > > > surrender of the search, the
      > > > > desires, the longing. We must
      > > > > give it all up and just stop.
      > > > >
      > > > > It is here, at the stop sign,
      > > > > that the magic may happen. We
      > > > > have "seeded" our magic garden
      > > > > earlier with the search. To stay
      > > > > with this metaphor, we must now
      > > > > wait silently while the growth
      > > > > begins without our conscious
      > > > > knowledge. Any attempt to peek
      > > > > too soon destroys the potential
      > > > > fruit (or veggie) of Awakening.
      > > > >
      > > > > This timing aspect causes a lot
      > > > > of confusion and discouragement -
      > > > > especially when those who are
      > > > > not authentic in their "teaching"
      > > > > speak and write about not seeking.
      > > > >
      > > > > The curriculum runs: Seeking, Not
      > > > > Seeking, SURPRISE! The surprise
      > > > > is beyond anything we could think
      > > > > or imagine, beyond description,
      > > > > a joy unspeakable, a peace beyond
      > > > > understanding. Of course, we cannot
      > > > > seek it in advance, because IT
      > > > > does not yield to concept or idea.
      > > > >
      > > > > This is not the same as saying
      > > > > that IT does not exist or IT is
      > > > > some mental fabrication and opium
      > > > > of the masses (or spritually
      > > > > drugged monkies on minimum wage
      > > > > for an organ grinder).
      > > > >
      > > > > Too long already. Hope there's
      > > > > something here of clarity.
      > > > >
      > > > > Jeff
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Sandeep
      > > > > <sandeep1960@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > sean tremblay wrote:
      > > > > > > Sandeep,
      > > > > > > Anouther great reply
      > > > > > > I think what I am getting at is there is a seduction in
      > Finding
      > > > > this
      > > > > > > THING and having possesion of it.
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > *The very sense of "something-to-be-sought" call it THING or
      > > > Self,
      > > > > or
      > > > > > Enlightenment or happiness
      > > > > > constructs the sense of "you-the-seeker-of-the-defined-sought".
      > > > > >
      > > > > > The perpetuating of the sense of "something-to-be-sought"
      > > > > perpetuates
      > > > > > the sense of "you-the-seeker-of-the-defined-sought".
      > > > > >
      > > > > > The term being used is sense of..........as no such
      construction
      > > > > > actually takes place.
      > > > > > *
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > > I like to use the terms of dependent and independent
      > realities,
      > > > > that
      > > > > > > kinda jives with me
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > > The dependent reality as you know is the cause and efect
      > > > response
      > > > > that
      > > > > > > causes suffering, and alienation, raises questions and
      > fills in
      > > > > the
      > > > > > > blanks.... I'ts the filling in the blanks part that may
      lead a
      > > > > person
      > > > > > > to manufacture an answer that may or may not lead to
      > fullfilment
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > *Is there anything as independent reality?
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Is there anything really independent .......aka.......that
      which
      > > > > is not
      > > > > > dependent on........... which it is supposed to be
      > independent of?
      > > > > > *
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > *//*__,_._,__
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > ---------------------------------
      > > > > Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo!
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      > > > Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
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      > > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who
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      > > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
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    • kumara_maniin
      to state briefly man in india we call manushan.manas meaning mind.meditation aims at stilling the mind.by chanting one mantra and slowly driving out all other
      Message 65 of 65 , Oct 10, 2007
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        to state briefly man in india we call manushan.manas meaning
        mind.meditation aims at stilling the mind.by chanting one mantra and
        slowly driving out all other thoughts and finally the mantra also
        the mind becomes blank.having started TM thirty years back with a
        mantra,initially i felt euphoric and felt thats it.but slowly there
        was a feeling of dissatisfaction.i now feel mind is like any other
        organ like hand or feet or eyes or ears.since this mind is involved
        in almost all the sensory perceptions in recalling recollecting or
        in some way it has slowly become a master and has gone crazy acting
        without stop and trying to lead the person than just being an
        instrument.yes while we are able to use it constructively to
        analyse.judge conclude and plan we are helpless to switch it off
        when not required.the children do not think much.a butterfly chase
        can make them more happy than a great property.i think we have lost
        the ability to switch off the mind.now the gr88 question is
        fine...but how to switch off?in my opinion it is not that difficult
        either.from ecckhart tolles power of now,i realised always being
        focussed on anything that we are engaged at the moment...at this
        very moment..and bringing the mind constantly back to whatever we
        are doing now..( not asking for much isnt it?)..not thinking about
        the consequences or results or fretting about why we have not done
        this yesterday or any other thought interfering...just be
        here...now..100% is one thing.
        secondly when we are not doing anything ..just observing what our
        thoughts.mind is unable to think when looked at.
        the gap in thoughts could be only couple of seconds but it is a
        start..and i think ..as i read here earlier not seeking just
        watching.. watchingintently to catch a thought...
        mani

        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
        <bethjams9@...> wrote:
        >
        > Jeff ,
        > I have had many teachers in some most unlikely places. Most did
        not see themselves as such. The way of many teachers is the way of
        being open to all around you, and aware of the inate knowlege
        possed by many from all walks of life, there are truly wise sages
        amoungst us. What ever blockage I am currently feeling I have to
        work it out on my own. My reluctance to submit my will to anouther
        comes from the fact that I have met many charlotains as well as
        sages, A point in case I am a pretty smart dude and I could concoct
        some line of bull shit and even make myself believe it! even derive
        a sense of deep satifaction from it, then the next step I could
        affect a manner of speach in the style of David Carridine and walk
        around calmly despencing my knowlege. At this point I could even
        develope a fallowing, but I would not do that nor have it done to me!
        > But the great sages are out thier and I just have ro Tune My
        Dial Back In
        > P/S I likke the qoutes from J.C. truly a great master I always
        dug his work
        >
        > Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
        > Sean,
        >
        > There is so much information
        > and insight into your perspective
        > in the short paragraph you wrote,
        > that it will be impossible to be
        > brief in reply...but I'll try.
        >
        > One other thing: I'll also try
        > not to sound "preachy". There
        > was a teacher who used anologies
        > in his really beautiful teachings,
        > and I draw upon them often -
        > because they are so on point.
        >
        > Unfortunately, the church has
        > created such a trainwreck of
        > what this particular master
        > taught that many people have
        > "thrown the baby out with the
        > bathwater". (You and I have each
        > used this expression).
        >
        > He is reported to have said that,
        > "Only as child do you enter the
        > Kingdom of Heaven". And as you
        > have written, it is the lightness
        > of being that a child knows that
        > we miss as life coerces us into
        > worry and stress and obligation.
        >
        > The good news is that there is
        > a Truth that sets you free...and
        > returns you to the garden - that
        > lightness of being, as a nearly
        > constant state of Being. Life
        > will still through an occasionally
        > curve ball, a shot of adrenalin,
        > and a temporary rush of negativity -
        > but once the Truth is discovered,
        > these are only momentary flashes
        > with no residual. Kind of the
        > reverse of what you mention as
        > glimpses into the lightness, in
        > a life that lacks the lightness
        > of Being - it is a lightness of
        > Being with glimpses into the
        > negativity the world bombards
        > us with daily.
        >
        > It is possible to rise above the
        > circumstances and enjoy a fullness
        > of joy as a way of life.
        >
        > Some people seem to never experience
        > the angst of uneasiness and longing
        > for the light, but those who do find
        > that is just doesn't go away. And so,
        > we find ourselves "seeking". We try
        > meditation and yoga, and attempt to
        > pump ourselves up with resolve to
        > be grateful and appreciative of
        > the beauty that surrounds us every
        > day in nature, music, relationships,
        > and even commerce. But to resolve
        > never seems to last - until...
        >
        > "When the student is ready, the
        > teacher appears." The "teacher" can
        > take many forms, and that light
        > can come on when least expected.
        > It seems to ALWAYS come as a rush
        > of sudden wisdom.
        >
        > We seem more removed as time passes,
        > and your keen polymorphic (a 25
        > center word that I don't have a
        > chance to use often) insight into the
        > parallels of actually seeing the edges
        > of objects more distinctly is a
        > powerful reflection of that sense
        > of separation and longing for
        > lightness.
        >
        > For me, it became a desparate
        > search, until I was willing to
        > lose my life to/or find it. That
        > doesn't have to be the case, but
        > there seems to come a point where
        > the longing becomes all consuming
        > for some.
        >
        > (The following is necessarily
        > subjective and offered as opinion.
        > We can only teach from our own
        > experiences, and there may others
        > here who will offer other approaches...
        >
        > If you find yourself approaching that
        > consuming level of inquiry...pitch your camp
        > at one sight. Find a teacher. Accept
        > the teaching of someone who has
        > made the journey, and who is willing
        > to be your guide.
        >
        > Your heart will resonate from the
        > sound of their voice, the content
        > of their teaching, or even a book
        > they have written - even their
        > photograph. If your teacher happens
        > to be in nature, it may be to
        > magic of sunrises or sunsets that
        > will speak to you. You get the idea.
        >
        > Meditation seems to be a pretty
        > common gateway to the garden to
        > which you wish to return. Patience
        > is virtue when it comes to this.
        > (I know that's not your strongest
        > virtue, and it may require some
        > time in the patience gym).
        >
        > More later.
        >
        > Love, as always,
        >
        > Jeff
        >
        > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
        > <bethjams9@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Jeff,
        > > I've had a revelationion this morning, something I have been
        > trying to articulate. In life I guess I've gleened some insights
        > about people and things. I've been to the bottom of the ocean and
        > around the world, I've played cards with prostitutes, drank cheap
        > wine with bums, flown with CEO's in private jets and dined with
        > millionairs. All these things have taught me something, but thier
        is
        > also something I've lost, something I've wittnessed with my kids.
        > It's a lightness of being, I remember it well, that garden of eden
        > but I can't seem to get back to it, I catch glimpses of it. With
        > every pain felt or experienced or witnessed it seems I have grown
        > harder and denser like the callouses of my hands. The worlds edges
        > that define the boundry of objects in view seem sharper. And the
        > yoga and meditaion under the wise tutorage of my wife just don't
        seem
        > to be enough, I supose I need to spend more time with my kids and
        > rediscover the joy of finding butterfly eggs or a tree
        > > frog or simply hanging out and realy enjoying chocolate milk.
        > >
        > > Jeff Belyea <jeff@> wrote:
        > > Hey Sean, I love your humor
        > > and your colorful play of words.
        > >
        > > Email and online discussions
        > > do tend to flatten the tone,
        > > and often tongue-in-check
        > > humor can sound sarcastic,
        > > and beside the point. But...
        > >
        > > You seem to be one of those
        > > writers who layers their prose
        > > with several meanings. Some
        > > are good at reading this, and
        > > some miss all but the superficial
        > > layer. Not to worry. It's all
        > > perfect.
        > >
        > > Love, as always,
        > >
        > > Jeff
        > >
        > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
        > > <bethjams9@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I guess thats what I was trying to say.....thanks Jeff. I
        suppose
        > I
        > > have a courser manner of putting it and a bit crass as well, but
        > > thats my humor of couse nobody can hear the inflections of tone
        in
        > my
        > > voice. There are those out there who seek to lead others and
        there
        > > are those out there who seek to be lead.. hence drugged monkeys
        and
        > > organ grinders.
        > > > I do supose it's not my role to correct this it's as as
        humanity
        > > itself, and the Buddha cautioned against taking anybodies word a
        > face
        > > value even his. I of course don't have the patience of the Buddha
        > > > But I am glad we got the ball rolling again and thier are some
        > > real discusions taking place
        > > > Thanks guy's
        > > >
        > > > Jeff Belyea <jeff@> wrote:
        > > > I hope to add clarity here
        > > > and not confusion...
        > > >
        > > > While it is ultimately true
        > > > that there is no seeking and
        > > > nothing to be sought...it is
        > > > a matter of timing.
        > > >
        > > > When we are stirred by the
        > > > sense of unhappiness or "something
        > > > missing" in our lives, we do
        > > > initially seek an ineffable
        > > > "something" to satisfy the longing
        > > > for contentment and happiness.
        > > >
        > > > Often, that occurs to us as
        > > > a new job, new car, bigger house,
        > > > bigger muscles, success on our
        > > > terms, new relationships, and so on.
        > > >
        > > > But when we achieve any or all
        > > > of these "things", we find that
        > > > the longing remains and we hear
        > > > the old refrain, "Is this all there
        > > > is?"...and we're back on the search,
        > > > again.
        > > >
        > > > However, as tough as it may be
        > > > to swallow, the paradox is that
        > > > we must give up the search (the
        > > > seduction as Sean described it)
        > > > and come to a place of absolute
        > > > surrender of the search, the
        > > > desires, the longing. We must
        > > > give it all up and just stop.
        > > >
        > > > It is here, at the stop sign,
        > > > that the magic may happen. We
        > > > have "seeded" our magic garden
        > > > earlier with the search. To stay
        > > > with this metaphor, we must now
        > > > wait silently while the growth
        > > > begins without our conscious
        > > > knowledge. Any attempt to peek
        > > > too soon destroys the potential
        > > > fruit (or veggie) of Awakening.
        > > >
        > > > This timing aspect causes a lot
        > > > of confusion and discouragement -
        > > > especially when those who are
        > > > not authentic in their "teaching"
        > > > speak and write about not seeking.
        > > >
        > > > The curriculum runs: Seeking, Not
        > > > Seeking, SURPRISE! The surprise
        > > > is beyond anything we could think
        > > > or imagine, beyond description,
        > > > a joy unspeakable, a peace beyond
        > > > understanding. Of course, we cannot
        > > > seek it in advance, because IT
        > > > does not yield to concept or idea.
        > > >
        > > > This is not the same as saying
        > > > that IT does not exist or IT is
        > > > some mental fabrication and opium
        > > > of the masses (or spritually
        > > > drugged monkies on minimum wage
        > > > for an organ grinder).
        > > >
        > > > Too long already. Hope there's
        > > > something here of clarity.
        > > >
        > > > Jeff
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Sandeep
        > > > <sandeep1960@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > sean tremblay wrote:
        > > > > > Sandeep,
        > > > > > Anouther great reply
        > > > > > I think what I am getting at is there is a seduction in
        > Finding
        > > > this
        > > > > > THING and having possesion of it.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > *The very sense of "something-to-be-sought" call it THING or
        > > Self,
        > > > or
        > > > > Enlightenment or happiness
        > > > > constructs the sense of "you-the-seeker-of-the-defined-
        sought".
        > > > >
        > > > > The perpetuating of the sense of "something-to-be-sought"
        > > > perpetuates
        > > > > the sense of "you-the-seeker-of-the-defined-sought".
        > > > >
        > > > > The term being used is sense of..........as no such
        > construction
        > > > > actually takes place.
        > > > > *
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > > I like to use the terms of dependent and independent
        > realities,
        > > > that
        > > > > > kinda jives with me
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > > The dependent reality as you know is the cause and efect
        > > response
        > > > that
        > > > > > causes suffering, and alienation, raises questions and
        fills
        > in
        > > > the
        > > > > > blanks.... I'ts the filling in the blanks part that may
        lead
        > a
        > > > person
        > > > > > to manufacture an answer that may or may not lead to
        > fullfilment
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > *Is there anything as independent reality?
        > > > >
        > > > > Is there anything really independent .......aka.......that
        > which
        > > > is not
        > > > > dependent on........... which it is supposed to be
        independent
        > of?
        > > > > *
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > *//*__,_._,__
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
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