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Re: Applied Meditation and into The Mystic

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  • Jeff Belyea
    Thanks, Sean. First of all, let me write that you are one of the most beautiful and pristine BE-INGS I have ever known. (Note for readers: I first met Sean
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 21, 2007
      Thanks, Sean. First of all, let me write that you are one of the most
      beautiful and pristine BE-INGS I have ever known. (Note for readers:
      I first met Sean when he was 8 months old, and spent time with him
      until age 6, and for the past 30 years have had little contact). It
      was evident from the first days I knew you.

      Secondly, I apologize for misspelling Tremblay (Trembley), my lame
      excuse is that it was late (for me) and we share a lot of B E L Y and
      A letters in our names.

      Yes, I perfectly agree that the childlike state IS the return to the
      Garden of Eden, and I appreciate your comments that your earthy view
      if from that perspective. As I wrote, the primary identity
      (Transcendence) enfolds the secondary identify without sacrificing
      the joy of both. So, you can enjoy the sensual delights and the
      blissful non-attachment at the same time. This may boogle the literal
      mind, but the transcendent realization harmonizes this naturally.

      About the pain issue, that I have not followed closely...

      Again, you are right. If pain and discomfort has manifested, it has
      not been dealt with spiritually and is best addressed on the physical
      level, through the wisdom of much of conventional medicine and trauma
      treatment. (Bob Rose has both the knowledge of the traditional
      medical approach and, of course, the meditative approach...and he may
      expond on this).

      Your recall of listening to the Joe Cocker album just about gave me
      an out-of-body experience. Thanks for the delicious taste of
      nostalgia. (BTW - Your mother was a great cook in those days.)

      Love, as always,


      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
      <bethjams9@...> wrote:
      > Jeff, I think a few need to respond. What I have been reading
      recently in reference to pain and meditation Does not seem to
      adiquitly adress Aideen's problem. The article sent refers to
      the "Normal" and "Minor" aches and pains assciated with sitting in
      Zazen for a determinate amount of time, or on a bus or an airport
      bench for that matter. It does not adress pain indications of serious
      problems and what Aideen was describing was an indication that
      something may be Biologically wrong, Saint Hildigard, Mary Baker Eddy
      the Buddha and many others have discussed the inner roots of disease
      and injury, but the injury must be treated as well as the cause of it
      in the physical as well as the metaphysical. The point is the
      student needs to develope not an intuitive link to understanding the
      mind and bodies relationship and to understand the signals that the
      body sends us. "Transending" physical limitations are both
      powerfull and positive things examples being marathon runners
      > and endurance events. That is not the same thing as ignoring a
      potentialy serious inury for the sake of a vaque "Attachment" to
      ideas of transendence. It would defeat the purpose of meditation for
      the student to endure physical suffering especialy suffering that may
      indicate a serious heath problem. Most of us know the difference
      between serious pain and superficial discomfort but the fear of
      failure at our practice or disciplin might cause us to ignore of
      override the physical indications of injury. Biologicaly speaking
      our minds and bodies are born, grow and then decay. At a certain
      point on a cellular level we begin to die and we spend years doing
      it. in the interim, we can transend that discomfort of dieing, we can
      override the discomfort of dieing but we are still dieing. Pain
      injury and illness are are a part of this. And if not fully adressed
      they can become a self consuming thing in and of itself. AN example
      would be my Aunt who died of cancer. It took her
      > ten years to die, after many years of diet, meditation, chemo, and
      more meditation she died, she felt pain and discomfort but she died
      and was at peace the moment she did.
      > I wanted to touch also on Jeffs point returning to a pure state
      like childhood, I agree completly, that is what I refer to as the
      garden of eden, because that is the condition of our essencial
      human "BE-ING" when I was a kid I still remember running as fat as i
      could through the main woods occasionaly stopping to pick wild
      blackberry or an occasioal wild strawberry, I remember climbing trees
      and dicovering a stream to be forded or a cool little grotto to hide
      out in, there were horseshoe crabs in the bay inlets and blue heron,
      the woods had porcupine and racoons. The world was wonderfull and as
      a kid you directly experience it for what it is and not what you want
      it to be, and you took people the same way. That original state free
      from judgement when we were free to observe "Idependent Reality"
      instead of the frustrated, diasapointed, hurt angry dependent reality
      of the Adult world. So to return to that free state is a return to
      being the kid whos spacing out watching
      > light reflect off of dust particles while listening to Jeff's Joe
      cocker albums on the head phones. In the next room Jeff scrapes
      something of an alum cover, and in the KItchen my moms burning down
      the house trying to make home made doughnuts.
      > The dependent reality is the one of cause and effect. He said she
      said. That make me so made. She made me do this and all the other
      Attachements to things and Stuff of this world as if they realy had
      value. A car is a car a dollar is a dollar, render onto Ceasar and
      all that stuff. The return to BE-ING is the basis of my sensual and
      earthy philosphy. It is about the here and now the just being
      enjoying the experience of Family and experiencing relationships and
      my relationship with the world around me as it is. For me exploration
      is also a big part of experiencing the world, the joy of discovery.
      An example of attachments and suffering would be to save hundreds or
      thousands of dollars for your dream vacation....lets say to
      Thailand. you've done your research and planned every little detail
      down to the minute. A beach bungalo so on and so forth.....When the
      vacationer arrives he realizes it nothing like what he imagined.
      Now he is about to experience the worst
      > disaster of his life setting him back thousands of dollars and
      hard work for nothing! or... he is about to embark on the most life
      altering adventure in his life!
      > Just a few afternoon rambles
      > I didnt hit spell check, because the kids want tuna sandwiches.
      > Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
      > The practical application of meditation
      > for stress and as part of goal achievement
      > strategies - ranging from quiting smoking to
      > supremely practical goal of transcendence
      > is well known, and has been part of many
      > meditation teachings (including my own)
      > for....ever.
      > www.mindgoal.com/mysticheart.html
      > Your mind may have hit a pothole at
      > reading the words practical and
      > transcendence in the same sentence...
      > but all goals have the very same
      > core: happiness and peace of mind.
      > These are success at its core, regardless
      > of the "vehicles" (new house, car, career,
      > relationship, fitness,...) viewed as
      > necessary for success.
      > Transcendence, therefore, is the
      > supremely practical goal, because
      > transcendence brings happiness and
      > peace of mind beyond what any of the
      > temporary thrill ofmaterial vehicles
      > can bring.
      > Transcendent is a return
      > to the childlike, goal free, worry
      > free, sheer joy that is our birthright -
      > and which we forfeited and forgot through
      > coercian by our early teachers,
      > who forced social order on us, and
      > robbed us of our true identity
      > and our true home.
      > Meditation can return us to our
      > true home. However, the phrase true home
      > is meaningless, in its "true" sense,
      > unless the return has been experienced.
      > If it hasn't, we settle for much less
      > - a secondary existence and limited
      > perspective that we naively mistate
      > for our true existence.
      > When the earthy, solid, practical
      > philosophies of say, a Sean Trembley,
      > and Zen teachings of chop wood, carry
      > water before and after transcendence
      > are presented, they are unassailably
      > worthwhile: eat good food, raise happy
      > kids, come in out of the rain...
      > But...
      > These are aspects of secondary consciousness
      > and limited intrepretations, limited to the
      > sensual and emotional apparatus that we have
      > "inherited" as home on this earthly plane.
      > And...these are adopted reflections
      > that satisfy the "I" of the ego, the
      > I that does not recognize (has forgotten)
      > the freedom from goals and need for
      > sensual delights (including food and
      > dry clothes) in order to shine. (That
      > is not to say that sensual delights
      > and dry clothes are not to be enjoyed.
      > It is just a matter of recognized
      > their impermanence, and the impermanence
      > of the joy they bring.
      > Transcendence, on the other hand,
      > is primary existence, a timeless
      > and blissful level of consciousness
      > that has nothing to do with the mortal
      > life or sensory apparatus. The secondary
      > existence is blended into the transcendent
      > level of consciousness, but it is
      > recognized as secondary, and allows
      > for absolute freedom from self-consciousness
      > in favor of blissful Self consciousness.
      > Meditation can open the door to this
      > new (renewed) understanding.
      > Just a midnight ramble.
      > Jeff
      > ---------------------------------
      > Got a little couch potato?
      > Check out fun summer activities for kids.
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