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[Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

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  • medit8ionsociety
    ... without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the pain and
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 16 12:39 PM
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Grace Yllana
      <yllanagr@...> wrote:
      >
      > Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position
      without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I
      do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the
      pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it
      away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out
      from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able
      to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the
      only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be
      the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused
      on the pain issue..
      >
      > Grace
      >
      Working with intense pain - Ram Dass

      "What I've learned from all this is what a delicate
      game it is to work with intense pain. Like all
      the experiences of an incarnation, pain has to be
      experienced fully by the Ego in order to be an
      effective learning experience for the Soul, but
      plunging in like that locks you into the pain.
      The only solution is to be on two planes at once:
      you have to enter the pain fully, and yet be in
      the Soul level at the same time. That's fierce?
      You feel the full intensity of the pain, and at the
      same time you transcend it by being in the Witness state.
      Pain demands that you establish yourself
      simultaneously in Ego and Soul. What an incredible
      teacher it is."

      From: Still Here by Ram Dass
    • Grace Yllana
      Thanks...that makes more sense to me now...whether I will ever get to the 2 plane state..I don t know..hopefully it happens with practice. Grace
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 16 12:57 PM
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        Thanks...that makes more sense to me now...whether I will ever get to the 2 plane state..I don't know..hopefully it happens with practice.

        Grace

        medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
        --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, Grace Yllana
        <yllanagr@.. .> wrote:
        >
        > Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position
        without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I
        do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the
        pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it
        away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out
        from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able
        to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the
        only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be
        the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused
        on the pain issue..
        >
        > Grace
        >
        Working with intense pain - Ram Dass

        "What I've learned from all this is what a delicate
        game it is to work with intense pain. Like all
        the experiences of an incarnation, pain has to be
        experienced fully by the Ego in order to be an
        effective learning experience for the Soul, but
        plunging in like that locks you into the pain.
        The only solution is to be on two planes at once:
        you have to enter the pain fully, and yet be in
        the Soul level at the same time. That's fierce?
        You feel the full intensity of the pain, and at the
        same time you transcend it by being in the Witness state.
        Pain demands that you establish yourself
        simultaneously in Ego and Soul. What an incredible
        teacher it is."

        From: Still Here by Ram Dass



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      • sean tremblay
        The Idea of observing the pain is restricted to the level of minor discomfort. IF pain is continual and extreme that is an indication that there is something
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 16 2:37 PM
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          The Idea of observing the pain is restricted to the level of minor discomfort. IF pain is continual and extreme that is an indication that there is something wrong biologicaly, remember there is a difference in transending suffering and enduring it.  The practice of Hatha Yoga is to create a mind body connection through fittness and strength as well as flexibility the true purpose of this yoga is to prepare the body for meditation, it frees the mind from the aches and pains a healthy body enables the meditator to focus on meditation rather than getting beyond pain.  In my career I have had to push many physical limits, mentaly override physical pain and injury to achieve a certain goal. The mind can be trained to do this easy enough the threshold for pain increases with exposure BUT this is the extreme and should be reserved for extremes.
          As grandpa Harvey always told me
          "Bull strength and ignorence will only get you so far"

          Grace Yllana <yllanagr@...> wrote:
          Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused on the pain issue..

          Grace

          sean tremblay <bethjams9@yahoo. com> wrote:
          When I was in the Army I used to go by the philosophy that "Pain is weakness leaving the body" after having back surgery my wife who's an RN and yoga instructor reminded me "No Sean pain is an indication that something is wrong!"
          She's smarter than me!

          Grace Yllana <yllanagr@yahoo. com> wrote:
          Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations.. .and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary... etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

          Grace Yllana

          Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@gmail. com> wrote:
          Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

          About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

          Daniel

          On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
          Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen
           

          From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
          Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
          To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
           
          Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.
          The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 
          For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.
          It's all good.
          Aideen
           

          From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
          Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
          To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
           
          Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
          sean

          aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
          --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
          <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
          >
          > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
          it's a
          > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
          > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
          > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
          what
          > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
          egoic
          > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
          >
          > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
          is
          > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
          adjust
          > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
          foot,
          > leg, whatever.
          >
          > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
          one
          > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
          about
          > it.
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Aideen
          >
          I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
          problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
          it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
          Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
          could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
          I'd appreciate some advice.
          Thanks,
          Aideen
           
           

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          --
          "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."


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        • sean tremblay
          Sure thats true but, bones break, cuts bleed, and the body is subject to physical inury regardless of the state ID, Ego, soul, Super Ego, planes of existence.
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 16 2:46 PM
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            Sure thats true but, bones break, cuts bleed, and the body is subject to physical inury
            regardless of the state ID, Ego, soul, Super Ego, planes of existence. A brocken bone needs mending you can check your inner self after the emergency room visit.
            A man was shot with a poison arrow
            many rushed to pull it out
            Before they did the man wanted to know
            who shot the arrow
            and what was the poison
            what kind of fethers made the fletching
            The Buddha's lesson
            Just pull out the arrow

            Grace Yllana <yllanagr@...> wrote:
            Thanks...that makes more sense to me now...whether I will ever get to the 2 plane state..I don't know..hopefully it happens with practice.

            Grace

            medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:
            --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, Grace Yllana
            <yllanagr@.. .> wrote:
            >
            > Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position
            without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I
            do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the
            pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it
            away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out
            from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able
            to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the
            only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be
            the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused
            on the pain issue..
            >
            > Grace
            >
            Working with intense pain - Ram Dass

            "What I've learned from all this is what a delicate
            game it is to work with intense pain. Like all
            the experiences of an incarnation, pain has to be
            experienced fully by the Ego in order to be an
            effective learning experience for the Soul, but
            plunging in like that locks you into the pain.
            The only solution is to be on two planes at once:
            you have to enter the pain fully, and yet be in
            the Soul level at the same time. That's fierce?
            You feel the full intensity of the pain, and at the
            same time you transcend it by being in the Witness state.
            Pain demands that you establish yourself
            simultaneously in Ego and Soul. What an incredible
            teacher it is."

            From: Still Here by Ram Dass



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