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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

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  • Grace Yllana
    Hello all...I m confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to observe pain, discomforts and other sensations...and realize
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
      Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations...and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary...etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

      Grace Yllana

      Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@...> wrote:
      Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

      About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

      Daniel

      On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
      Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen
       

      From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
      Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
      To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
       
      Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.
      The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 
      For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.
      It's all good.
      Aideen
       

      From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
      Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
      To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
       
      Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
      sean

      aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
      --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
      <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
      >
      > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
      it's a
      > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
      > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
      > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
      what
      > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
      egoic
      > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
      >
      > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
      is
      > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
      adjust
      > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
      foot,
      > leg, whatever.
      >
      > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
      one
      > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
      about
      > it.
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Aideen
      >
      I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
      problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
      it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
      Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
      could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
      I'd appreciate some advice.
      Thanks,
      Aideen
       
       

      Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
      Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.



      --
      "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."


      Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

    • Aideen McKenna
      Exactly. That s what confuses me, too. ---Aideen _____ From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com]
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007

        Exactly.  That’s what confuses me, too.  ---Aideen

         

         


        From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Grace Yllana
        Sent: July 16, 2007 10:52 AM
        To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

         

        Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations.. .and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary... etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

        Grace Yllana

        Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@gmail. com> wrote:

        Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

        About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

        Daniel

        On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:

        Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen

         


        From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
        Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
        To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

         

        Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.

        The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 

        For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.

        It's all good.

        Aideen

         


        From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
        Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
        To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

         

        Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.

        sean

        aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:

        --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
        <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
        >
        > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
        it's a
        > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
        > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
        > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
        what
        > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
        egoic
        > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
        >
        > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
        is
        > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
        adjust
        > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
        foot,
        > leg, whatever.
        >
        > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
        one
        > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
        about
        > it.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Aideen
        >
        I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
        problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
        it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
        Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
        could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
        I'd appreciate some advice.
        Thanks,
        Aideen

         

         


        Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
        Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.




        --
        "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."

         

         


        Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

      • sean tremblay
        When I was in the Army I used to go by the philosophy that Pain is weakness leaving the body after having back surgery my wife who s an RN and yoga
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
          When I was in the Army I used to go by the philosophy that "Pain is weakness leaving the body" after having back surgery my wife who's an RN and yoga instructor reminded me "No Sean pain is an indication that something is wrong!"
          She's smarter than me!

          Grace Yllana <yllanagr@...> wrote:
          Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations.. .and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary... etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

          Grace Yllana

          Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@gmail. com> wrote:
          Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

          About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

          Daniel

          On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
          Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen
           

          From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
          Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
          To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
           
          Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.
          The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 
          For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.
          It's all good.
          Aideen
           

          From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
          Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
          To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
           
          Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
          sean

          aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
          --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
          <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
          >
          > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
          it's a
          > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
          > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
          > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
          what
          > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
          egoic
          > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
          >
          > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
          is
          > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
          adjust
          > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
          foot,
          > leg, whatever.
          >
          > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
          one
          > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
          about
          > it.
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Aideen
          >
          I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
          problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
          it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
          Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
          could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
          I'd appreciate some advice.
          Thanks,
          Aideen
           
           

          Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
          Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.



          --
          "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."


          Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.


          Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

        • Grace Yllana
          Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I do know that with
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
            Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused on the pain issue..

            Grace

            sean tremblay <bethjams9@...> wrote:
            When I was in the Army I used to go by the philosophy that "Pain is weakness leaving the body" after having back surgery my wife who's an RN and yoga instructor reminded me "No Sean pain is an indication that something is wrong!"
            She's smarter than me!

            Grace Yllana <yllanagr@yahoo. com> wrote:
            Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations.. .and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary... etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

            Grace Yllana

            Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@gmail. com> wrote:
            Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

            About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

            Daniel

            On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
            Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen
             

            From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
            Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
            To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
             
            Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.
            The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 
            For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.
            It's all good.
            Aideen
             

            From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
            Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
            To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
             
            Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
            sean

            aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
            --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
            <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
            >
            > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
            it's a
            > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
            > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
            > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
            what
            > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
            egoic
            > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
            >
            > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
            is
            > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
            adjust
            > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
            foot,
            > leg, whatever.
            >
            > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
            one
            > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
            about
            > it.
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Aideen
            >
            I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
            problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
            it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
            Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
            could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
            I'd appreciate some advice.
            Thanks,
            Aideen
             
             

            Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
            Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.



            --
            "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."


            Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.


            Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.


            Got a little couch potato?
            Check out fun summer activities for kids.

          • medit8ionsociety
            ... without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the pain and
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
              --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Grace Yllana
              <yllanagr@...> wrote:
              >
              > Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position
              without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I
              do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the
              pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it
              away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out
              from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able
              to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the
              only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be
              the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused
              on the pain issue..
              >
              > Grace
              >
              Working with intense pain - Ram Dass

              "What I've learned from all this is what a delicate
              game it is to work with intense pain. Like all
              the experiences of an incarnation, pain has to be
              experienced fully by the Ego in order to be an
              effective learning experience for the Soul, but
              plunging in like that locks you into the pain.
              The only solution is to be on two planes at once:
              you have to enter the pain fully, and yet be in
              the Soul level at the same time. That's fierce?
              You feel the full intensity of the pain, and at the
              same time you transcend it by being in the Witness state.
              Pain demands that you establish yourself
              simultaneously in Ego and Soul. What an incredible
              teacher it is."

              From: Still Here by Ram Dass
            • Grace Yllana
              Thanks...that makes more sense to me now...whether I will ever get to the 2 plane state..I don t know..hopefully it happens with practice. Grace
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
                Thanks...that makes more sense to me now...whether I will ever get to the 2 plane state..I don't know..hopefully it happens with practice.

                Grace

                medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, Grace Yllana
                <yllanagr@.. .> wrote:
                >
                > Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position
                without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I
                do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the
                pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it
                away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out
                from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able
                to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the
                only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be
                the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused
                on the pain issue..
                >
                > Grace
                >
                Working with intense pain - Ram Dass

                "What I've learned from all this is what a delicate
                game it is to work with intense pain. Like all
                the experiences of an incarnation, pain has to be
                experienced fully by the Ego in order to be an
                effective learning experience for the Soul, but
                plunging in like that locks you into the pain.
                The only solution is to be on two planes at once:
                you have to enter the pain fully, and yet be in
                the Soul level at the same time. That's fierce?
                You feel the full intensity of the pain, and at the
                same time you transcend it by being in the Witness state.
                Pain demands that you establish yourself
                simultaneously in Ego and Soul. What an incredible
                teacher it is."

                From: Still Here by Ram Dass



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              • sean tremblay
                The Idea of observing the pain is restricted to the level of minor discomfort. IF pain is continual and extreme that is an indication that there is something
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
                  The Idea of observing the pain is restricted to the level of minor discomfort. IF pain is continual and extreme that is an indication that there is something wrong biologicaly, remember there is a difference in transending suffering and enduring it.  The practice of Hatha Yoga is to create a mind body connection through fittness and strength as well as flexibility the true purpose of this yoga is to prepare the body for meditation, it frees the mind from the aches and pains a healthy body enables the meditator to focus on meditation rather than getting beyond pain.  In my career I have had to push many physical limits, mentaly override physical pain and injury to achieve a certain goal. The mind can be trained to do this easy enough the threshold for pain increases with exposure BUT this is the extreme and should be reserved for extremes.
                  As grandpa Harvey always told me
                  "Bull strength and ignorence will only get you so far"

                  Grace Yllana <yllanagr@...> wrote:
                  Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused on the pain issue..

                  Grace

                  sean tremblay <bethjams9@yahoo. com> wrote:
                  When I was in the Army I used to go by the philosophy that "Pain is weakness leaving the body" after having back surgery my wife who's an RN and yoga instructor reminded me "No Sean pain is an indication that something is wrong!"
                  She's smarter than me!

                  Grace Yllana <yllanagr@yahoo. com> wrote:
                  Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations.. .and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary... etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

                  Grace Yllana

                  Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@gmail. com> wrote:
                  Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

                  About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

                  Daniel

                  On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                  Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen
                   

                  From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
                  Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
                  To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                   
                  Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.
                  The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 
                  For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.
                  It's all good.
                  Aideen
                   

                  From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
                  Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
                  To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                   
                  Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
                  sean

                  aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                  --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
                  <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
                  >
                  > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
                  it's a
                  > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
                  > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
                  > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
                  what
                  > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
                  egoic
                  > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
                  >
                  > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
                  is
                  > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
                  adjust
                  > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
                  foot,
                  > leg, whatever.
                  >
                  > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
                  one
                  > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
                  about
                  > it.
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  > Aideen
                  >
                  I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
                  problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
                  it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
                  Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
                  could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
                  I'd appreciate some advice.
                  Thanks,
                  Aideen
                   
                   

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                  --
                  "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."


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                • sean tremblay
                  Sure thats true but, bones break, cuts bleed, and the body is subject to physical inury regardless of the state ID, Ego, soul, Super Ego, planes of existence.
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
                    Sure thats true but, bones break, cuts bleed, and the body is subject to physical inury
                    regardless of the state ID, Ego, soul, Super Ego, planes of existence. A brocken bone needs mending you can check your inner self after the emergency room visit.
                    A man was shot with a poison arrow
                    many rushed to pull it out
                    Before they did the man wanted to know
                    who shot the arrow
                    and what was the poison
                    what kind of fethers made the fletching
                    The Buddha's lesson
                    Just pull out the arrow

                    Grace Yllana <yllanagr@...> wrote:
                    Thanks...that makes more sense to me now...whether I will ever get to the 2 plane state..I don't know..hopefully it happens with practice.

                    Grace

                    medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:
                    --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, Grace Yllana
                    <yllanagr@.. .> wrote:
                    >
                    > Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position
                    without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I
                    do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the
                    pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it
                    away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out
                    from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able
                    to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the
                    only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be
                    the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused
                    on the pain issue..
                    >
                    > Grace
                    >
                    Working with intense pain - Ram Dass

                    "What I've learned from all this is what a delicate
                    game it is to work with intense pain. Like all
                    the experiences of an incarnation, pain has to be
                    experienced fully by the Ego in order to be an
                    effective learning experience for the Soul, but
                    plunging in like that locks you into the pain.
                    The only solution is to be on two planes at once:
                    you have to enter the pain fully, and yet be in
                    the Soul level at the same time. That's fierce?
                    You feel the full intensity of the pain, and at the
                    same time you transcend it by being in the Witness state.
                    Pain demands that you establish yourself
                    simultaneously in Ego and Soul. What an incredible
                    teacher it is."

                    From: Still Here by Ram Dass



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