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RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

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  • Aideen McKenna
    Thanks to Sean & Bob. Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben s post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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      Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben’s post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.

      The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it’s arthritis, & there are times when it’s more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 

      For the present, I’ll make dish-washing my meditation & I’ll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.

      It’s all good.

      Aideen

       


      From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
      Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
      To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

       

      Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.

      sean

      aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:

      --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, "aideenmck"
      <aideenmck@. ..> wrote:
      >
      > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
      it's a
      > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
      > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
      > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
      what
      > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
      egoic
      > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
      >
      > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
      is
      > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
      adjust
      > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
      foot,
      > leg, whatever.
      >
      > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
      one
      > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
      about
      > it.
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Aideen
      >
      I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
      problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
      it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
      Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
      could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
      I'd appreciate some advice.
      Thanks,
      Aideen

       

       


      Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
      Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

    • Aideen McKenna
      Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly. --Aideen _____ From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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        Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen

         


        From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
        Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
        To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

         

        Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben’s post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.

        The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it’s arthritis, & there are times when it’s more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 

        For the present, I’ll make dish-washing my meditation & I’ll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.

        It’s all good.

        Aideen

         


        From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
        Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
        To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
        Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

         

        Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.

        sean

        aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:

        --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, "aideenmck"
        <aideenmck@. ..> wrote:
        >
        > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
        it's a
        > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
        > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
        > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
        what
        > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
        egoic
        > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
        >
        > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
        is
        > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
        adjust
        > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
        foot,
        > leg, whatever.
        >
        > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
        one
        > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
        about
        > it.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Aideen
        >
        I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
        problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
        it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
        Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
        could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
        I'd appreciate some advice.
        Thanks,
        Aideen

         

         


        Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
        Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

      • Daniel Bonekeeper
        Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can t sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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          Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

          About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

          Daniel

          On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@...> wrote:

          Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen

           


          From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
          Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
          To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

           

          Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.

          The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 

          For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.

          It's all good.

          Aideen

           


          From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
          Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
          To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

           

          Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.

          sean

          aideenmck <aideenmck@...> wrote:

          --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com , "aideenmck"
          <aideenmck@...> wrote:
          >
          > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
          it's a
          > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
          > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
          > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
          what
          > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
          egoic
          > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
          >
          > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
          is
          > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
          adjust
          > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
          foot,
          > leg, whatever.
          >
          > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
          one
          > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
          about
          > it.
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Aideen
          >
          I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
          problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
          it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
          Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
          could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
          I'd appreciate some advice.
          Thanks,
          Aideen

           

           


          Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
          Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.




          --
          "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."
        • Grace Yllana
          Hello all...I m confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to observe pain, discomforts and other sensations...and realize
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations...and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary...etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

            Grace Yllana

            Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@...> wrote:
            Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

            About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

            Daniel

            On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
            Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen
             

            From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
            Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
            To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
             
            Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.
            The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 
            For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.
            It's all good.
            Aideen
             

            From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
            Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
            To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
             
            Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
            sean

            aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
            --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
            <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
            >
            > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
            it's a
            > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
            > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
            > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
            what
            > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
            egoic
            > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
            >
            > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
            is
            > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
            adjust
            > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
            foot,
            > leg, whatever.
            >
            > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
            one
            > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
            about
            > it.
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Aideen
            >
            I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
            problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
            it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
            Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
            could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
            I'd appreciate some advice.
            Thanks,
            Aideen
             
             

            Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
            Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.



            --
            "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."


            Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

          • Aideen McKenna
            Exactly. That s what confuses me, too. ---Aideen _____ From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com]
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
            • 0 Attachment

              Exactly.  That’s what confuses me, too.  ---Aideen

               

               


              From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Grace Yllana
              Sent: July 16, 2007 10:52 AM
              To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

               

              Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations.. .and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary... etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

              Grace Yllana

              Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@gmail. com> wrote:

              Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

              About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

              Daniel

              On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:

              Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen

               


              From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
              Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
              To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

               

              Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.

              The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 

              For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.

              It's all good.

              Aideen

               


              From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
              Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
              To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

               

              Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.

              sean

              aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:

              --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
              <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
              >
              > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
              it's a
              > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
              > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
              > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
              what
              > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
              egoic
              > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
              >
              > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
              is
              > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
              adjust
              > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
              foot,
              > leg, whatever.
              >
              > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
              one
              > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
              about
              > it.
              >
              > Thanks,
              > Aideen
              >
              I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
              problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
              it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
              Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
              could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
              I'd appreciate some advice.
              Thanks,
              Aideen

               

               


              Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
              Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.




              --
              "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."

               

               


              Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

            • sean tremblay
              When I was in the Army I used to go by the philosophy that Pain is weakness leaving the body after having back surgery my wife who s an RN and yoga
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                When I was in the Army I used to go by the philosophy that "Pain is weakness leaving the body" after having back surgery my wife who's an RN and yoga instructor reminded me "No Sean pain is an indication that something is wrong!"
                She's smarter than me!

                Grace Yllana <yllanagr@...> wrote:
                Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations.. .and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary... etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

                Grace Yllana

                Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@gmail. com> wrote:
                Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

                About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

                Daniel

                On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen
                 

                From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
                Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
                To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                 
                Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.
                The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 
                For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.
                It's all good.
                Aideen
                 

                From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
                Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
                To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                 
                Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
                sean

                aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
                <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
                >
                > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
                it's a
                > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
                > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
                > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
                what
                > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
                egoic
                > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
                >
                > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
                is
                > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
                adjust
                > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
                foot,
                > leg, whatever.
                >
                > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
                one
                > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
                about
                > it.
                >
                > Thanks,
                > Aideen
                >
                I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
                problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
                it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
                Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
                could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
                I'd appreciate some advice.
                Thanks,
                Aideen
                 
                 

                Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.



                --
                "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."


                Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.


                Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

              • Grace Yllana
                Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I do know that with
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused on the pain issue..

                  Grace

                  sean tremblay <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                  When I was in the Army I used to go by the philosophy that "Pain is weakness leaving the body" after having back surgery my wife who's an RN and yoga instructor reminded me "No Sean pain is an indication that something is wrong!"
                  She's smarter than me!

                  Grace Yllana <yllanagr@yahoo. com> wrote:
                  Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations.. .and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary... etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

                  Grace Yllana

                  Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@gmail. com> wrote:
                  Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

                  About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

                  Daniel

                  On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                  Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen
                   

                  From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
                  Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
                  To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                   
                  Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.
                  The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 
                  For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.
                  It's all good.
                  Aideen
                   

                  From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
                  Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
                  To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                   
                  Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
                  sean

                  aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                  --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
                  <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
                  >
                  > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
                  it's a
                  > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
                  > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
                  > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
                  what
                  > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
                  egoic
                  > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
                  >
                  > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
                  is
                  > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
                  adjust
                  > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
                  foot,
                  > leg, whatever.
                  >
                  > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
                  one
                  > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
                  about
                  > it.
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  > Aideen
                  >
                  I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
                  problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
                  it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
                  Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
                  could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
                  I'd appreciate some advice.
                  Thanks,
                  Aideen
                   
                   

                  Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                  Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.



                  --
                  "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."


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                • medit8ionsociety
                  ... without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the pain and
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Grace Yllana
                    <yllanagr@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position
                    without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I
                    do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the
                    pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it
                    away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out
                    from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able
                    to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the
                    only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be
                    the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused
                    on the pain issue..
                    >
                    > Grace
                    >
                    Working with intense pain - Ram Dass

                    "What I've learned from all this is what a delicate
                    game it is to work with intense pain. Like all
                    the experiences of an incarnation, pain has to be
                    experienced fully by the Ego in order to be an
                    effective learning experience for the Soul, but
                    plunging in like that locks you into the pain.
                    The only solution is to be on two planes at once:
                    you have to enter the pain fully, and yet be in
                    the Soul level at the same time. That's fierce?
                    You feel the full intensity of the pain, and at the
                    same time you transcend it by being in the Witness state.
                    Pain demands that you establish yourself
                    simultaneously in Ego and Soul. What an incredible
                    teacher it is."

                    From: Still Here by Ram Dass
                  • Grace Yllana
                    Thanks...that makes more sense to me now...whether I will ever get to the 2 plane state..I don t know..hopefully it happens with practice. Grace
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Thanks...that makes more sense to me now...whether I will ever get to the 2 plane state..I don't know..hopefully it happens with practice.

                      Grace

                      medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                      --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, Grace Yllana
                      <yllanagr@.. .> wrote:
                      >
                      > Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position
                      without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I
                      do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the
                      pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it
                      away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out
                      from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able
                      to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the
                      only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be
                      the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused
                      on the pain issue..
                      >
                      > Grace
                      >
                      Working with intense pain - Ram Dass

                      "What I've learned from all this is what a delicate
                      game it is to work with intense pain. Like all
                      the experiences of an incarnation, pain has to be
                      experienced fully by the Ego in order to be an
                      effective learning experience for the Soul, but
                      plunging in like that locks you into the pain.
                      The only solution is to be on two planes at once:
                      you have to enter the pain fully, and yet be in
                      the Soul level at the same time. That's fierce?
                      You feel the full intensity of the pain, and at the
                      same time you transcend it by being in the Witness state.
                      Pain demands that you establish yourself
                      simultaneously in Ego and Soul. What an incredible
                      teacher it is."

                      From: Still Here by Ram Dass



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                    • sean tremblay
                      The Idea of observing the pain is restricted to the level of minor discomfort. IF pain is continual and extreme that is an indication that there is something
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        The Idea of observing the pain is restricted to the level of minor discomfort. IF pain is continual and extreme that is an indication that there is something wrong biologicaly, remember there is a difference in transending suffering and enduring it.  The practice of Hatha Yoga is to create a mind body connection through fittness and strength as well as flexibility the true purpose of this yoga is to prepare the body for meditation, it frees the mind from the aches and pains a healthy body enables the meditator to focus on meditation rather than getting beyond pain.  In my career I have had to push many physical limits, mentaly override physical pain and injury to achieve a certain goal. The mind can be trained to do this easy enough the threshold for pain increases with exposure BUT this is the extreme and should be reserved for extremes.
                        As grandpa Harvey always told me
                        "Bull strength and ignorence will only get you so far"

                        Grace Yllana <yllanagr@...> wrote:
                        Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused on the pain issue..

                        Grace

                        sean tremblay <bethjams9@yahoo. com> wrote:
                        When I was in the Army I used to go by the philosophy that "Pain is weakness leaving the body" after having back surgery my wife who's an RN and yoga instructor reminded me "No Sean pain is an indication that something is wrong!"
                        She's smarter than me!

                        Grace Yllana <yllanagr@yahoo. com> wrote:
                        Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations.. .and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary... etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

                        Grace Yllana

                        Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@gmail. com> wrote:
                        Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

                        About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

                        Daniel

                        On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                        Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen
                         

                        From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
                        Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
                        To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                         
                        Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.
                        The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 
                        For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.
                        It's all good.
                        Aideen
                         

                        From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
                        Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
                        To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                         
                        Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
                        sean

                        aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                        --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
                        <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
                        >
                        > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
                        it's a
                        > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
                        > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
                        > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
                        what
                        > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
                        egoic
                        > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
                        >
                        > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
                        is
                        > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
                        adjust
                        > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
                        foot,
                        > leg, whatever.
                        >
                        > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
                        one
                        > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
                        about
                        > it.
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        > Aideen
                        >
                        I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
                        problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
                        it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
                        Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
                        could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
                        I'd appreciate some advice.
                        Thanks,
                        Aideen
                         
                         

                        Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                        Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.



                        --
                        "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."


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                        Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.


                        Got a little couch potato?
                        Check out fun summer activities for kids.


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                      • sean tremblay
                        Sure thats true but, bones break, cuts bleed, and the body is subject to physical inury regardless of the state ID, Ego, soul, Super Ego, planes of existence.
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Sure thats true but, bones break, cuts bleed, and the body is subject to physical inury
                          regardless of the state ID, Ego, soul, Super Ego, planes of existence. A brocken bone needs mending you can check your inner self after the emergency room visit.
                          A man was shot with a poison arrow
                          many rushed to pull it out
                          Before they did the man wanted to know
                          who shot the arrow
                          and what was the poison
                          what kind of fethers made the fletching
                          The Buddha's lesson
                          Just pull out the arrow

                          Grace Yllana <yllanagr@...> wrote:
                          Thanks...that makes more sense to me now...whether I will ever get to the 2 plane state..I don't know..hopefully it happens with practice.

                          Grace

                          medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:
                          --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, Grace Yllana
                          <yllanagr@.. .> wrote:
                          >
                          > Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position
                          without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I
                          do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the
                          pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it
                          away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out
                          from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able
                          to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the
                          only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be
                          the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused
                          on the pain issue..
                          >
                          > Grace
                          >
                          Working with intense pain - Ram Dass

                          "What I've learned from all this is what a delicate
                          game it is to work with intense pain. Like all
                          the experiences of an incarnation, pain has to be
                          experienced fully by the Ego in order to be an
                          effective learning experience for the Soul, but
                          plunging in like that locks you into the pain.
                          The only solution is to be on two planes at once:
                          you have to enter the pain fully, and yet be in
                          the Soul level at the same time. That's fierce?
                          You feel the full intensity of the pain, and at the
                          same time you transcend it by being in the Witness state.
                          Pain demands that you establish yourself
                          simultaneously in Ego and Soul. What an incredible
                          teacher it is."

                          From: Still Here by Ram Dass



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