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Re: Sleepy & Hurting (very long post)

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  • medit8ionsociety
    ... even something in the nervous system. In the mean time take a break from meditation. Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
      <bethjams9@...> wrote:
      >
      > Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or
      even something in the nervous system. In the mean time take a break
      from meditation. Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after
      dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
      > sean
      >
      Dear Aideen,
      I totally agree with Sean's suggestion that you see
      your physician. Also, I do have several other things
      to add and that partially they can be found in the article
      on our web site titled "Visualization of Cellular Healing"
      (particularly about pain in part #8), as copied below and at
      http://www.meditationsociety.com/week29.html
      Additionally, I want to remind you that virtually everything
      that happens in your life can be a pointer to you to look
      within and analyze "Who is this happening to?". Not knowing
      this is the real pain in our heart. And when you are not
      enquiring into "Who am I?", simply silently
      witnessing your life as it takes place is what I
      suggest is the most beneficial (and truly meditative)
      thing you can do for your Self. Witness your life
      as it takes place in a detached manner. Your body
      is ever changing and sometimes there will be pain and at
      other times there will be good feelings. What will
      remain always available is to be attentive to what
      the senses receive and send out, what the emotions
      are feeling, and what thoughts are flying by. And do this
      without commenting in any way. Shut up the inner
      chatterer. By positioning your Self in the Witness mode,
      whether you are sitting in meditation or doing your
      income producing job, or any other action, you will have the
      potential to experience very insightful realizations.
      This will be true if you are going through pleasure
      or pain, sadness or joy,or any other of the dualities
      of life. The inner Witness is your real Self and
      knowing It without conditional reactivity to your mood
      swings, your thought patterns, or your physical
      sensation changes... frees you from the illusion
      that duality chains you to, and that is that
      you are this "separate from the rest of creation
      entity". This transcendent perspective is the
      key to freedom from the situation that most people
      find themselves in, and that can be described as one
      where they are constantly trying to fulfill a series
      of ever changing desires that will comfort their
      body, mind, and/or emotions. And they never do get
      fulfilled. One desire is simply replaced with another.
      Life then is a circle of frustrating suffering involved
      in chasing after one gold ring after another. But the
      person meditating with stability in their dispassionate
      awareness has an open the door to always being in a
      state that is evolving in consciousness, and is not
      suffering from trying to reactively feed the voracious
      desire appetite of a fearful ego. As the cliche goes
      "Nice work if you can get it!". In any event, I
      know that you are really trying to be a vehicle
      for all good to flow through you and I am sure
      that this will happen. Be patient and persevere.
      I wish you well.
      Peace and blessings,
      Bob

      Visualization of Cellular Healing
      When you go to a doctor, s/he prescribes a medication for you to take,
      or a treatment you will undergo, your body starts the healing process
      before the medicine is in your system or the exercise or surgical
      procedure has taken place. For most people, just seeing a doctor gives
      confidence that healing will occur. Depending on the patient's
      cultural background, this is true whether the physician is a
      neurosurgeon at the Mayo Clinic or a tribal witch doctor. This is
      attributable to an extraordinary healing ability of the body by a
      process known as the placebo effect. What happens is that healing
      starts when you believe it will occur. Your mind buys into it and your
      body makes it happen. The great physician and humanitarian, Dr. Albert
      Schweitzer, gives us this insight - "The witch doctor succeeds for the
      same reason all the rest of us (medical doctors) succeed. Each patient
      carries his own doctor inside himself. They come to us not knowing
      that truth. We are at our best when we give the doctor who resides
      within each patient a chance to go to work."

      Our body is a fantastic chemical factory that is capable of seemingly
      unbelievable things. For instance, there is the case of a 95-pound
      woman lifting up a two-ton car to save the life of her child who was
      trapped under its weight. This was due to a gigantic adrenaline
      release. As impressive a display of adaptability to a need this is,
      our body is capable of doing even more seemingly miraculous feats.
      Perhaps the most impressive of all is its' ability to heal itself - of
      anything!

      There are several methods dealing with visualizing healing
      meditatively at the cellular level. To begin any of them, use the
      position, breathing pattern, physical relaxing technique, and emptying
      of mental and emotional reactivity that you have found best prepares
      you to fill with the object of your meditation. Try each of these ways
      separately, and try combining them until your healing has occurred.
      This may take mere seconds, or decades, as has whatever happened to
      you that now needs a change back to wellness.

      1. In your minds eye, see aberrant or inflamed cells changing into
      healthy cells. If there is a damaged or corrupted area within the
      cells, visualize them changing and becoming free from injury. See your
      whole body becoming pure. Visualize yourself as perfectly healthy.

      2. There are cells within your body that act as protectors and
      actually attack and kill damaging invader cells. See these warrior
      cells destroy those cells that could cause you injury. See your whole
      body becoming pure. Visualize yourself as perfectly healthy.

      3. There are cells within your body that eat threatening cells.
      See them devour the harm causing structures. See your whole body
      becoming pure. Visualize yourself as perfectly healthy.

      4. Visualize groups of healthy cells combining to replace any
      damaged areas of your body. For instance, if you have suffered a
      broken bone, see the cells come together in healing, bonding together
      to reform a complete structure. Visualize the bone as perfectly healthy.

      5. Visualize healing energy filling you. The energy can be felt to
      originate from a higher power that gifts you with healing. See this
      holy energy filling and changing your cellular structure to a perfect
      condition. Watch as the specific organ, body system, or part heals.
      See your whole body becoming pure. Visualize yourself as perfectly
      healthy.

      6. Visualize yourself standing, sitting, or prostrating in front
      of your personal deity. See your deity heal you by touch. See your
      deity heal you by sending divine energy to you. See your deity end
      your suffering. See your whole body becoming pure. Visualize yourself
      as perfectly healthy.

      7. Get an anatomy book and study the body structure you want
      healing to take place in. Look at how the part appears when in a state
      of perfection. When doing a healing visualization meditation, see your
      body part as being in this state of perfection.

      8. If you are suffering from pain, see in your minds eye, as
      clearly as possible, the nerve endings that are in the specific area
      of your discomfort, or all of the nerve endings in your entire body.
      With every inhalation, feel and visualize healing air flowing from a
      higher power and enter you and fill your lungs. See your red blood
      cells absorb the air through the walls of your lungs and flow through
      your arteries spreading healing oxygen to every cell in your body.
      Witness the inflamed nerve endings become soothed and witness your
      body start to glow with wellbeing and serenity.

      Perhaps the most important suggestion of all is to sincerely want the
      healing to take place and believe that it will occur. The Meditation
      Society of America doesn't favor one religion over another, or even
      suggest that one has to believe in God at all for the benefits of
      meditation to help you, but we do sometimes quote from religious
      sources. In this case, we cite the Bible - Mark 11:24 "...what things
      ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall
      have them."

      This 2000-year-old statement is in perfect accord with the most
      cutting edge scientific and medical understanding of the 21st century.
      To quote Dr. Herbert Benson of the Harvard Medical School, "We know
      that belief can lead to healing or at least improvement in 50 percent
      to 90 percent of diseases, including asthma, angina pectoris, and skin
      rashes, many forms of pain, rheumatoid arthritis, congestive heart
      failure. They're all influenced by belief. We in medicine have made
      fun of belief by calling it the "placebo effect," or insisting that
      "It's all in your head." Yet, belief is one of the most powerful
      healing tools we have in our therapeutic arsenal."
    • Aideen McKenna
      Thanks to Sean & Bob. Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben s post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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        Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben’s post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.

        The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it’s arthritis, & there are times when it’s more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 

        For the present, I’ll make dish-washing my meditation & I’ll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.

        It’s all good.

        Aideen

         


        From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
        Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
        To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

         

        Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.

        sean

        aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:

        --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, "aideenmck"
        <aideenmck@. ..> wrote:
        >
        > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
        it's a
        > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
        > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
        > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
        what
        > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
        egoic
        > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
        >
        > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
        is
        > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
        adjust
        > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
        foot,
        > leg, whatever.
        >
        > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
        one
        > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
        about
        > it.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Aideen
        >
        I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
        problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
        it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
        Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
        could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
        I'd appreciate some advice.
        Thanks,
        Aideen

         

         


        Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
        Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

      • Aideen McKenna
        Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly. --Aideen _____ From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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          Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen

           


          From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
          Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
          To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

           

          Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben’s post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.

          The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it’s arthritis, & there are times when it’s more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 

          For the present, I’ll make dish-washing my meditation & I’ll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.

          It’s all good.

          Aideen

           


          From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
          Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
          To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
          Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

           

          Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.

          sean

          aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:

          --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, "aideenmck"
          <aideenmck@. ..> wrote:
          >
          > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
          it's a
          > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
          > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
          > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
          what
          > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
          egoic
          > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
          >
          > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
          is
          > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
          adjust
          > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
          foot,
          > leg, whatever.
          >
          > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
          one
          > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
          about
          > it.
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Aideen
          >
          I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
          problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
          it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
          Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
          could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
          I'd appreciate some advice.
          Thanks,
          Aideen

           

           


          Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
          Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

        • Daniel Bonekeeper
          Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can t sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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            Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

            About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

            Daniel

            On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@...> wrote:

            Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen

             


            From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
            Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
            To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

             

            Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.

            The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 

            For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.

            It's all good.

            Aideen

             


            From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
            Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
            To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

             

            Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.

            sean

            aideenmck <aideenmck@...> wrote:

            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com , "aideenmck"
            <aideenmck@...> wrote:
            >
            > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
            it's a
            > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
            > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
            > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
            what
            > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
            egoic
            > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
            >
            > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
            is
            > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
            adjust
            > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
            foot,
            > leg, whatever.
            >
            > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
            one
            > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
            about
            > it.
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Aideen
            >
            I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
            problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
            it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
            Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
            could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
            I'd appreciate some advice.
            Thanks,
            Aideen

             

             


            Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
            Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.




            --
            "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."
          • Grace Yllana
            Hello all...I m confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to observe pain, discomforts and other sensations...and realize
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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              Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations...and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary...etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

              Grace Yllana

              Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@...> wrote:
              Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

              About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

              Daniel

              On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
              Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen
               

              From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
              Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
              To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
               
              Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.
              The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 
              For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.
              It's all good.
              Aideen
               

              From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
              Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
              To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
               
              Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
              sean

              aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
              --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
              <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
              >
              > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
              it's a
              > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
              > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
              > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
              what
              > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
              egoic
              > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
              >
              > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
              is
              > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
              adjust
              > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
              foot,
              > leg, whatever.
              >
              > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
              one
              > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
              about
              > it.
              >
              > Thanks,
              > Aideen
              >
              I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
              problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
              it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
              Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
              could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
              I'd appreciate some advice.
              Thanks,
              Aideen
               
               

              Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
              Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.



              --
              "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."


              Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

            • Aideen McKenna
              Exactly. That s what confuses me, too. ---Aideen _____ From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com]
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                Exactly.  That’s what confuses me, too.  ---Aideen

                 

                 


                From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Grace Yllana
                Sent: July 16, 2007 10:52 AM
                To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

                 

                Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations.. .and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary... etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

                Grace Yllana

                Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@gmail. com> wrote:

                Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

                About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

                Daniel

                On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:

                Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen

                 


                From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
                Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
                To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

                 

                Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.

                The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 

                For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.

                It's all good.

                Aideen

                 


                From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
                Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
                To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

                 

                Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.

                sean

                aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:

                --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
                <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
                >
                > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
                it's a
                > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
                > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
                > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
                what
                > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
                egoic
                > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
                >
                > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
                is
                > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
                adjust
                > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
                foot,
                > leg, whatever.
                >
                > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
                one
                > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
                about
                > it.
                >
                > Thanks,
                > Aideen
                >
                I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
                problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
                it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
                Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
                could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
                I'd appreciate some advice.
                Thanks,
                Aideen

                 

                 


                Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.




                --
                "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."

                 

                 


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              • sean tremblay
                When I was in the Army I used to go by the philosophy that Pain is weakness leaving the body after having back surgery my wife who s an RN and yoga
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                  When I was in the Army I used to go by the philosophy that "Pain is weakness leaving the body" after having back surgery my wife who's an RN and yoga instructor reminded me "No Sean pain is an indication that something is wrong!"
                  She's smarter than me!

                  Grace Yllana <yllanagr@...> wrote:
                  Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations.. .and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary... etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

                  Grace Yllana

                  Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@gmail. com> wrote:
                  Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

                  About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

                  Daniel

                  On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                  Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen
                   

                  From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
                  Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
                  To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                   
                  Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.
                  The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 
                  For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.
                  It's all good.
                  Aideen
                   

                  From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
                  Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
                  To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                   
                  Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
                  sean

                  aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                  --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
                  <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
                  >
                  > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
                  it's a
                  > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
                  > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
                  > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
                  what
                  > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
                  egoic
                  > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
                  >
                  > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
                  is
                  > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
                  adjust
                  > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
                  foot,
                  > leg, whatever.
                  >
                  > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
                  one
                  > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
                  about
                  > it.
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  > Aideen
                  >
                  I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
                  problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
                  it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
                  Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
                  could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
                  I'd appreciate some advice.
                  Thanks,
                  Aideen
                   
                   

                  Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                  Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.



                  --
                  "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."


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                • Grace Yllana
                  Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I do know that with
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                    Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused on the pain issue..

                    Grace

                    sean tremblay <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                    When I was in the Army I used to go by the philosophy that "Pain is weakness leaving the body" after having back surgery my wife who's an RN and yoga instructor reminded me "No Sean pain is an indication that something is wrong!"
                    She's smarter than me!

                    Grace Yllana <yllanagr@yahoo. com> wrote:
                    Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations.. .and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary... etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

                    Grace Yllana

                    Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@gmail. com> wrote:
                    Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

                    About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

                    Daniel

                    On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                    Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen
                     

                    From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
                    Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
                    To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                     
                    Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.
                    The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 
                    For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.
                    It's all good.
                    Aideen
                     

                    From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
                    Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
                    To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                     
                    Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
                    sean

                    aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                    --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
                    <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
                    >
                    > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
                    it's a
                    > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
                    > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
                    > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
                    what
                    > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
                    egoic
                    > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
                    >
                    > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
                    is
                    > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
                    adjust
                    > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
                    foot,
                    > leg, whatever.
                    >
                    > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
                    one
                    > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
                    about
                    > it.
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    > Aideen
                    >
                    I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
                    problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
                    it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
                    Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
                    could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
                    I'd appreciate some advice.
                    Thanks,
                    Aideen
                     
                     

                    Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                    Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.



                    --
                    "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."


                    Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.


                    Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.


                    Got a little couch potato?
                    Check out fun summer activities for kids.

                  • medit8ionsociety
                    ... without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the pain and
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Grace Yllana
                      <yllanagr@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position
                      without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I
                      do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the
                      pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it
                      away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out
                      from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able
                      to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the
                      only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be
                      the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused
                      on the pain issue..
                      >
                      > Grace
                      >
                      Working with intense pain - Ram Dass

                      "What I've learned from all this is what a delicate
                      game it is to work with intense pain. Like all
                      the experiences of an incarnation, pain has to be
                      experienced fully by the Ego in order to be an
                      effective learning experience for the Soul, but
                      plunging in like that locks you into the pain.
                      The only solution is to be on two planes at once:
                      you have to enter the pain fully, and yet be in
                      the Soul level at the same time. That's fierce?
                      You feel the full intensity of the pain, and at the
                      same time you transcend it by being in the Witness state.
                      Pain demands that you establish yourself
                      simultaneously in Ego and Soul. What an incredible
                      teacher it is."

                      From: Still Here by Ram Dass
                    • Grace Yllana
                      Thanks...that makes more sense to me now...whether I will ever get to the 2 plane state..I don t know..hopefully it happens with practice. Grace
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                        Thanks...that makes more sense to me now...whether I will ever get to the 2 plane state..I don't know..hopefully it happens with practice.

                        Grace

                        medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                        --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, Grace Yllana
                        <yllanagr@.. .> wrote:
                        >
                        > Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position
                        without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I
                        do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the
                        pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it
                        away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out
                        from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able
                        to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the
                        only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be
                        the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused
                        on the pain issue..
                        >
                        > Grace
                        >
                        Working with intense pain - Ram Dass

                        "What I've learned from all this is what a delicate
                        game it is to work with intense pain. Like all
                        the experiences of an incarnation, pain has to be
                        experienced fully by the Ego in order to be an
                        effective learning experience for the Soul, but
                        plunging in like that locks you into the pain.
                        The only solution is to be on two planes at once:
                        you have to enter the pain fully, and yet be in
                        the Soul level at the same time. That's fierce?
                        You feel the full intensity of the pain, and at the
                        same time you transcend it by being in the Witness state.
                        Pain demands that you establish yourself
                        simultaneously in Ego and Soul. What an incredible
                        teacher it is."

                        From: Still Here by Ram Dass



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                      • sean tremblay
                        The Idea of observing the pain is restricted to the level of minor discomfort. IF pain is continual and extreme that is an indication that there is something
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                          The Idea of observing the pain is restricted to the level of minor discomfort. IF pain is continual and extreme that is an indication that there is something wrong biologicaly, remember there is a difference in transending suffering and enduring it.  The practice of Hatha Yoga is to create a mind body connection through fittness and strength as well as flexibility the true purpose of this yoga is to prepare the body for meditation, it frees the mind from the aches and pains a healthy body enables the meditator to focus on meditation rather than getting beyond pain.  In my career I have had to push many physical limits, mentaly override physical pain and injury to achieve a certain goal. The mind can be trained to do this easy enough the threshold for pain increases with exposure BUT this is the extreme and should be reserved for extremes.
                          As grandpa Harvey always told me
                          "Bull strength and ignorence will only get you so far"

                          Grace Yllana <yllanagr@...> wrote:
                          Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused on the pain issue..

                          Grace

                          sean tremblay <bethjams9@yahoo. com> wrote:
                          When I was in the Army I used to go by the philosophy that "Pain is weakness leaving the body" after having back surgery my wife who's an RN and yoga instructor reminded me "No Sean pain is an indication that something is wrong!"
                          She's smarter than me!

                          Grace Yllana <yllanagr@yahoo. com> wrote:
                          Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations.. .and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary... etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

                          Grace Yllana

                          Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@gmail. com> wrote:
                          Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

                          About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

                          Daniel

                          On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                          Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen
                           

                          From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
                          Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
                          To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                           
                          Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.
                          The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 
                          For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.
                          It's all good.
                          Aideen
                           

                          From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
                          Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
                          To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                           
                          Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
                          sean

                          aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                          --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
                          <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
                          >
                          > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
                          it's a
                          > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
                          > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
                          > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
                          what
                          > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
                          egoic
                          > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
                          >
                          > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
                          is
                          > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
                          adjust
                          > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
                          foot,
                          > leg, whatever.
                          >
                          > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
                          one
                          > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
                          about
                          > it.
                          >
                          > Thanks,
                          > Aideen
                          >
                          I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
                          problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
                          it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
                          Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
                          could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
                          I'd appreciate some advice.
                          Thanks,
                          Aideen
                           
                           

                          Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                          Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.



                          --
                          "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."


                          Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.


                          Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.


                          Got a little couch potato?
                          Check out fun summer activities for kids.


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                        • sean tremblay
                          Sure thats true but, bones break, cuts bleed, and the body is subject to physical inury regardless of the state ID, Ego, soul, Super Ego, planes of existence.
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                            Sure thats true but, bones break, cuts bleed, and the body is subject to physical inury
                            regardless of the state ID, Ego, soul, Super Ego, planes of existence. A brocken bone needs mending you can check your inner self after the emergency room visit.
                            A man was shot with a poison arrow
                            many rushed to pull it out
                            Before they did the man wanted to know
                            who shot the arrow
                            and what was the poison
                            what kind of fethers made the fletching
                            The Buddha's lesson
                            Just pull out the arrow

                            Grace Yllana <yllanagr@...> wrote:
                            Thanks...that makes more sense to me now...whether I will ever get to the 2 plane state..I don't know..hopefully it happens with practice.

                            Grace

                            medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:
                            --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, Grace Yllana
                            <yllanagr@.. .> wrote:
                            >
                            > Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position
                            without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I
                            do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the
                            pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it
                            away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out
                            from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able
                            to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the
                            only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be
                            the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused
                            on the pain issue..
                            >
                            > Grace
                            >
                            Working with intense pain - Ram Dass

                            "What I've learned from all this is what a delicate
                            game it is to work with intense pain. Like all
                            the experiences of an incarnation, pain has to be
                            experienced fully by the Ego in order to be an
                            effective learning experience for the Soul, but
                            plunging in like that locks you into the pain.
                            The only solution is to be on two planes at once:
                            you have to enter the pain fully, and yet be in
                            the Soul level at the same time. That's fierce?
                            You feel the full intensity of the pain, and at the
                            same time you transcend it by being in the Witness state.
                            Pain demands that you establish yourself
                            simultaneously in Ego and Soul. What an incredible
                            teacher it is."

                            From: Still Here by Ram Dass



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