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Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

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  • sean tremblay
    Eat when your hungry Sleep when your tired When it rains go inside Love Sean ... it s a ... what ... egoic ... is ... adjust ... foot, ... one ... about ...
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 12, 2007
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      Eat when your hungry
      Sleep when your tired
      When it rains go inside
      Love
      Sean

      "M.V.T. DHANANJEYAN" <dhanmvt1@...> wrote:
      --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, "aideenmck"
      <aideenmck@. ..> wrote:
      >
      > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
      it's a
      > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
      > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
      > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
      what
      > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
      egoic
      > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
      >
      > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
      is
      > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
      adjust
      > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
      foot,
      > leg, whatever.
      >
      > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
      one
      > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
      about
      > it.
      >
      > Thanks,
      > Aideen
      >

      Dear Aideen

      It is not a great mistake or harm when you pass thro sleeping
      or sleeping condition at the time of doing meditation. Your body and
      soul may be tired. Body and soul has very good relation. So, only
      easy way sleep well. Then do meditation. Avoid heavy food or food at
      the (near) time of doing meditation. Empty stomach is highly
      preferable.

      Higly, well cleared bowl is good for meditaion.
      Airy place is more required.



      Got a little couch potato?
      Check out fun summer activities for kids.

    • aideenmck
      ... it s a ... what ... egoic ... is ... adjust ... foot, ... one ... about ... I m still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the problem of
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 15, 2007
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "aideenmck"
        <aideenmck@...> wrote:
        >
        > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
        it's a
        > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
        > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
        > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
        what
        > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
        egoic
        > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
        >
        > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
        is
        > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
        adjust
        > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
        foot,
        > leg, whatever.
        >
        > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
        one
        > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
        about
        > it.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Aideen
        >
        I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
        problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
        it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
        Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
        could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
        I'd appreciate some advice.
        Thanks,
        Aideen
      • sean tremblay
        Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system. In the mean time take a break from meditation. Get
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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          Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
          sean

          aideenmck <aideenmck@...> wrote:
          --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, "aideenmck"
          <aideenmck@. ..> wrote:
          >
          > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
          it's a
          > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
          > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
          > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
          what
          > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
          egoic
          > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
          >
          > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
          is
          > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
          adjust
          > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
          foot,
          > leg, whatever.
          >
          > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
          one
          > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
          about
          > it.
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Aideen
          >
          I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
          problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
          it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
          Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
          could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
          I'd appreciate some advice.
          Thanks,
          Aideen



          Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
          Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

        • medit8ionsociety
          ... even something in the nervous system. In the mean time take a break from meditation. Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
            <bethjams9@...> wrote:
            >
            > Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or
            even something in the nervous system. In the mean time take a break
            from meditation. Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after
            dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
            > sean
            >
            Dear Aideen,
            I totally agree with Sean's suggestion that you see
            your physician. Also, I do have several other things
            to add and that partially they can be found in the article
            on our web site titled "Visualization of Cellular Healing"
            (particularly about pain in part #8), as copied below and at
            http://www.meditationsociety.com/week29.html
            Additionally, I want to remind you that virtually everything
            that happens in your life can be a pointer to you to look
            within and analyze "Who is this happening to?". Not knowing
            this is the real pain in our heart. And when you are not
            enquiring into "Who am I?", simply silently
            witnessing your life as it takes place is what I
            suggest is the most beneficial (and truly meditative)
            thing you can do for your Self. Witness your life
            as it takes place in a detached manner. Your body
            is ever changing and sometimes there will be pain and at
            other times there will be good feelings. What will
            remain always available is to be attentive to what
            the senses receive and send out, what the emotions
            are feeling, and what thoughts are flying by. And do this
            without commenting in any way. Shut up the inner
            chatterer. By positioning your Self in the Witness mode,
            whether you are sitting in meditation or doing your
            income producing job, or any other action, you will have the
            potential to experience very insightful realizations.
            This will be true if you are going through pleasure
            or pain, sadness or joy,or any other of the dualities
            of life. The inner Witness is your real Self and
            knowing It without conditional reactivity to your mood
            swings, your thought patterns, or your physical
            sensation changes... frees you from the illusion
            that duality chains you to, and that is that
            you are this "separate from the rest of creation
            entity". This transcendent perspective is the
            key to freedom from the situation that most people
            find themselves in, and that can be described as one
            where they are constantly trying to fulfill a series
            of ever changing desires that will comfort their
            body, mind, and/or emotions. And they never do get
            fulfilled. One desire is simply replaced with another.
            Life then is a circle of frustrating suffering involved
            in chasing after one gold ring after another. But the
            person meditating with stability in their dispassionate
            awareness has an open the door to always being in a
            state that is evolving in consciousness, and is not
            suffering from trying to reactively feed the voracious
            desire appetite of a fearful ego. As the cliche goes
            "Nice work if you can get it!". In any event, I
            know that you are really trying to be a vehicle
            for all good to flow through you and I am sure
            that this will happen. Be patient and persevere.
            I wish you well.
            Peace and blessings,
            Bob

            Visualization of Cellular Healing
            When you go to a doctor, s/he prescribes a medication for you to take,
            or a treatment you will undergo, your body starts the healing process
            before the medicine is in your system or the exercise or surgical
            procedure has taken place. For most people, just seeing a doctor gives
            confidence that healing will occur. Depending on the patient's
            cultural background, this is true whether the physician is a
            neurosurgeon at the Mayo Clinic or a tribal witch doctor. This is
            attributable to an extraordinary healing ability of the body by a
            process known as the placebo effect. What happens is that healing
            starts when you believe it will occur. Your mind buys into it and your
            body makes it happen. The great physician and humanitarian, Dr. Albert
            Schweitzer, gives us this insight - "The witch doctor succeeds for the
            same reason all the rest of us (medical doctors) succeed. Each patient
            carries his own doctor inside himself. They come to us not knowing
            that truth. We are at our best when we give the doctor who resides
            within each patient a chance to go to work."

            Our body is a fantastic chemical factory that is capable of seemingly
            unbelievable things. For instance, there is the case of a 95-pound
            woman lifting up a two-ton car to save the life of her child who was
            trapped under its weight. This was due to a gigantic adrenaline
            release. As impressive a display of adaptability to a need this is,
            our body is capable of doing even more seemingly miraculous feats.
            Perhaps the most impressive of all is its' ability to heal itself - of
            anything!

            There are several methods dealing with visualizing healing
            meditatively at the cellular level. To begin any of them, use the
            position, breathing pattern, physical relaxing technique, and emptying
            of mental and emotional reactivity that you have found best prepares
            you to fill with the object of your meditation. Try each of these ways
            separately, and try combining them until your healing has occurred.
            This may take mere seconds, or decades, as has whatever happened to
            you that now needs a change back to wellness.

            1. In your minds eye, see aberrant or inflamed cells changing into
            healthy cells. If there is a damaged or corrupted area within the
            cells, visualize them changing and becoming free from injury. See your
            whole body becoming pure. Visualize yourself as perfectly healthy.

            2. There are cells within your body that act as protectors and
            actually attack and kill damaging invader cells. See these warrior
            cells destroy those cells that could cause you injury. See your whole
            body becoming pure. Visualize yourself as perfectly healthy.

            3. There are cells within your body that eat threatening cells.
            See them devour the harm causing structures. See your whole body
            becoming pure. Visualize yourself as perfectly healthy.

            4. Visualize groups of healthy cells combining to replace any
            damaged areas of your body. For instance, if you have suffered a
            broken bone, see the cells come together in healing, bonding together
            to reform a complete structure. Visualize the bone as perfectly healthy.

            5. Visualize healing energy filling you. The energy can be felt to
            originate from a higher power that gifts you with healing. See this
            holy energy filling and changing your cellular structure to a perfect
            condition. Watch as the specific organ, body system, or part heals.
            See your whole body becoming pure. Visualize yourself as perfectly
            healthy.

            6. Visualize yourself standing, sitting, or prostrating in front
            of your personal deity. See your deity heal you by touch. See your
            deity heal you by sending divine energy to you. See your deity end
            your suffering. See your whole body becoming pure. Visualize yourself
            as perfectly healthy.

            7. Get an anatomy book and study the body structure you want
            healing to take place in. Look at how the part appears when in a state
            of perfection. When doing a healing visualization meditation, see your
            body part as being in this state of perfection.

            8. If you are suffering from pain, see in your minds eye, as
            clearly as possible, the nerve endings that are in the specific area
            of your discomfort, or all of the nerve endings in your entire body.
            With every inhalation, feel and visualize healing air flowing from a
            higher power and enter you and fill your lungs. See your red blood
            cells absorb the air through the walls of your lungs and flow through
            your arteries spreading healing oxygen to every cell in your body.
            Witness the inflamed nerve endings become soothed and witness your
            body start to glow with wellbeing and serenity.

            Perhaps the most important suggestion of all is to sincerely want the
            healing to take place and believe that it will occur. The Meditation
            Society of America doesn't favor one religion over another, or even
            suggest that one has to believe in God at all for the benefits of
            meditation to help you, but we do sometimes quote from religious
            sources. In this case, we cite the Bible - Mark 11:24 "...what things
            ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall
            have them."

            This 2000-year-old statement is in perfect accord with the most
            cutting edge scientific and medical understanding of the 21st century.
            To quote Dr. Herbert Benson of the Harvard Medical School, "We know
            that belief can lead to healing or at least improvement in 50 percent
            to 90 percent of diseases, including asthma, angina pectoris, and skin
            rashes, many forms of pain, rheumatoid arthritis, congestive heart
            failure. They're all influenced by belief. We in medicine have made
            fun of belief by calling it the "placebo effect," or insisting that
            "It's all in your head." Yet, belief is one of the most powerful
            healing tools we have in our therapeutic arsenal."
          • Aideen McKenna
            Thanks to Sean & Bob. Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben s post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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              Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben’s post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.

              The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it’s arthritis, & there are times when it’s more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 

              For the present, I’ll make dish-washing my meditation & I’ll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.

              It’s all good.

              Aideen

               


              From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
              Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
              To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

               

              Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.

              sean

              aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:

              --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, "aideenmck"
              <aideenmck@. ..> wrote:
              >
              > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
              it's a
              > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
              > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
              > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
              what
              > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
              egoic
              > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
              >
              > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
              is
              > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
              adjust
              > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
              foot,
              > leg, whatever.
              >
              > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
              one
              > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
              about
              > it.
              >
              > Thanks,
              > Aideen
              >
              I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
              problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
              it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
              Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
              could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
              I'd appreciate some advice.
              Thanks,
              Aideen

               

               


              Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
              Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

            • Aideen McKenna
              Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly. --Aideen _____ From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen

                 


                From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
                Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
                To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

                 

                Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben’s post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.

                The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it’s arthritis, & there are times when it’s more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 

                For the present, I’ll make dish-washing my meditation & I’ll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.

                It’s all good.

                Aideen

                 


                From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
                Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
                To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
                Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

                 

                Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.

                sean

                aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:

                --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, "aideenmck"
                <aideenmck@. ..> wrote:
                >
                > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
                it's a
                > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
                > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
                > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
                what
                > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
                egoic
                > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
                >
                > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
                is
                > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
                adjust
                > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
                foot,
                > leg, whatever.
                >
                > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
                one
                > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
                about
                > it.
                >
                > Thanks,
                > Aideen
                >
                I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
                problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
                it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
                Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
                could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
                I'd appreciate some advice.
                Thanks,
                Aideen

                 

                 


                Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

              • Daniel Bonekeeper
                Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can t sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                  Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

                  About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

                  Daniel

                  On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@...> wrote:

                  Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen

                   


                  From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
                  Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
                  To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

                   

                  Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.

                  The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 

                  For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.

                  It's all good.

                  Aideen

                   


                  From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
                  Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
                  To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

                   

                  Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.

                  sean

                  aideenmck <aideenmck@...> wrote:

                  --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com , "aideenmck"
                  <aideenmck@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
                  it's a
                  > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
                  > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
                  > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
                  what
                  > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
                  egoic
                  > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
                  >
                  > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
                  is
                  > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
                  adjust
                  > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
                  foot,
                  > leg, whatever.
                  >
                  > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
                  one
                  > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
                  about
                  > it.
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  > Aideen
                  >
                  I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
                  problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
                  it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
                  Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
                  could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
                  I'd appreciate some advice.
                  Thanks,
                  Aideen

                   

                   


                  Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                  Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.




                  --
                  "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."
                • Grace Yllana
                  Hello all...I m confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to observe pain, discomforts and other sensations...and realize
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                    Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations...and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary...etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

                    Grace Yllana

                    Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@...> wrote:
                    Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

                    About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

                    Daniel

                    On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                    Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen
                     

                    From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
                    Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
                    To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                     
                    Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.
                    The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 
                    For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.
                    It's all good.
                    Aideen
                     

                    From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
                    Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
                    To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                     
                    Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
                    sean

                    aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                    --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
                    <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
                    >
                    > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
                    it's a
                    > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
                    > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
                    > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
                    what
                    > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
                    egoic
                    > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
                    >
                    > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
                    is
                    > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
                    adjust
                    > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
                    foot,
                    > leg, whatever.
                    >
                    > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
                    one
                    > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
                    about
                    > it.
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    > Aideen
                    >
                    I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
                    problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
                    it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
                    Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
                    could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
                    I'd appreciate some advice.
                    Thanks,
                    Aideen
                     
                     

                    Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                    Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.



                    --
                    "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."


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                  • Aideen McKenna
                    Exactly. That s what confuses me, too. ---Aideen _____ From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com]
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                      Exactly.  That’s what confuses me, too.  ---Aideen

                       

                       


                      From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Grace Yllana
                      Sent: July 16, 2007 10:52 AM
                      To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

                       

                      Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations.. .and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary... etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

                      Grace Yllana

                      Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@gmail. com> wrote:

                      Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

                      About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

                      Daniel

                      On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:

                      Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen

                       


                      From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
                      Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
                      To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

                       

                      Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.

                      The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 

                      For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.

                      It's all good.

                      Aideen

                       


                      From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
                      Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
                      To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

                       

                      Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.

                      sean

                      aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:

                      --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
                      <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
                      >
                      > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
                      it's a
                      > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
                      > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
                      > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
                      what
                      > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
                      egoic
                      > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
                      >
                      > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
                      is
                      > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
                      adjust
                      > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
                      foot,
                      > leg, whatever.
                      >
                      > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
                      one
                      > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
                      about
                      > it.
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      > Aideen
                      >
                      I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
                      problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
                      it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
                      Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
                      could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
                      I'd appreciate some advice.
                      Thanks,
                      Aideen

                       

                       


                      Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                      Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.




                      --
                      "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."

                       

                       


                      Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

                    • sean tremblay
                      When I was in the Army I used to go by the philosophy that Pain is weakness leaving the body after having back surgery my wife who s an RN and yoga
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                        When I was in the Army I used to go by the philosophy that "Pain is weakness leaving the body" after having back surgery my wife who's an RN and yoga instructor reminded me "No Sean pain is an indication that something is wrong!"
                        She's smarter than me!

                        Grace Yllana <yllanagr@...> wrote:
                        Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations.. .and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary... etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

                        Grace Yllana

                        Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@gmail. com> wrote:
                        Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

                        About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

                        Daniel

                        On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                        Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen
                         

                        From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
                        Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
                        To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                         
                        Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.
                        The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 
                        For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.
                        It's all good.
                        Aideen
                         

                        From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
                        Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
                        To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                         
                        Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
                        sean

                        aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                        --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
                        <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
                        >
                        > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
                        it's a
                        > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
                        > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
                        > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
                        what
                        > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
                        egoic
                        > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
                        >
                        > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
                        is
                        > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
                        adjust
                        > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
                        foot,
                        > leg, whatever.
                        >
                        > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
                        one
                        > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
                        about
                        > it.
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        > Aideen
                        >
                        I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
                        problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
                        it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
                        Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
                        could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
                        I'd appreciate some advice.
                        Thanks,
                        Aideen
                         
                         

                        Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                        Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.



                        --
                        "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."


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                      • Grace Yllana
                        Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I do know that with
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                          Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused on the pain issue..

                          Grace

                          sean tremblay <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                          When I was in the Army I used to go by the philosophy that "Pain is weakness leaving the body" after having back surgery my wife who's an RN and yoga instructor reminded me "No Sean pain is an indication that something is wrong!"
                          She's smarter than me!

                          Grace Yllana <yllanagr@yahoo. com> wrote:
                          Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations.. .and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary... etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

                          Grace Yllana

                          Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@gmail. com> wrote:
                          Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

                          About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

                          Daniel

                          On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                          Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen
                           

                          From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
                          Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
                          To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                           
                          Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.
                          The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 
                          For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.
                          It's all good.
                          Aideen
                           

                          From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
                          Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
                          To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                           
                          Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
                          sean

                          aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                          --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
                          <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
                          >
                          > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
                          it's a
                          > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
                          > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
                          > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
                          what
                          > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
                          egoic
                          > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
                          >
                          > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
                          is
                          > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
                          adjust
                          > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
                          foot,
                          > leg, whatever.
                          >
                          > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
                          one
                          > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
                          about
                          > it.
                          >
                          > Thanks,
                          > Aideen
                          >
                          I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
                          problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
                          it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
                          Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
                          could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
                          I'd appreciate some advice.
                          Thanks,
                          Aideen
                           
                           

                          Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                          Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.



                          --
                          "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."


                          Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.


                          Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.


                          Got a little couch potato?
                          Check out fun summer activities for kids.

                        • medit8ionsociety
                          ... without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the pain and
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Grace Yllana
                            <yllanagr@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position
                            without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I
                            do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the
                            pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it
                            away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out
                            from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able
                            to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the
                            only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be
                            the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused
                            on the pain issue..
                            >
                            > Grace
                            >
                            Working with intense pain - Ram Dass

                            "What I've learned from all this is what a delicate
                            game it is to work with intense pain. Like all
                            the experiences of an incarnation, pain has to be
                            experienced fully by the Ego in order to be an
                            effective learning experience for the Soul, but
                            plunging in like that locks you into the pain.
                            The only solution is to be on two planes at once:
                            you have to enter the pain fully, and yet be in
                            the Soul level at the same time. That's fierce?
                            You feel the full intensity of the pain, and at the
                            same time you transcend it by being in the Witness state.
                            Pain demands that you establish yourself
                            simultaneously in Ego and Soul. What an incredible
                            teacher it is."

                            From: Still Here by Ram Dass
                          • Grace Yllana
                            Thanks...that makes more sense to me now...whether I will ever get to the 2 plane state..I don t know..hopefully it happens with practice. Grace
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                              Thanks...that makes more sense to me now...whether I will ever get to the 2 plane state..I don't know..hopefully it happens with practice.

                              Grace

                              medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                              --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, Grace Yllana
                              <yllanagr@.. .> wrote:
                              >
                              > Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position
                              without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I
                              do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the
                              pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it
                              away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out
                              from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able
                              to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the
                              only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be
                              the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused
                              on the pain issue..
                              >
                              > Grace
                              >
                              Working with intense pain - Ram Dass

                              "What I've learned from all this is what a delicate
                              game it is to work with intense pain. Like all
                              the experiences of an incarnation, pain has to be
                              experienced fully by the Ego in order to be an
                              effective learning experience for the Soul, but
                              plunging in like that locks you into the pain.
                              The only solution is to be on two planes at once:
                              you have to enter the pain fully, and yet be in
                              the Soul level at the same time. That's fierce?
                              You feel the full intensity of the pain, and at the
                              same time you transcend it by being in the Witness state.
                              Pain demands that you establish yourself
                              simultaneously in Ego and Soul. What an incredible
                              teacher it is."

                              From: Still Here by Ram Dass



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                            • sean tremblay
                              The Idea of observing the pain is restricted to the level of minor discomfort. IF pain is continual and extreme that is an indication that there is something
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                                The Idea of observing the pain is restricted to the level of minor discomfort. IF pain is continual and extreme that is an indication that there is something wrong biologicaly, remember there is a difference in transending suffering and enduring it.  The practice of Hatha Yoga is to create a mind body connection through fittness and strength as well as flexibility the true purpose of this yoga is to prepare the body for meditation, it frees the mind from the aches and pains a healthy body enables the meditator to focus on meditation rather than getting beyond pain.  In my career I have had to push many physical limits, mentaly override physical pain and injury to achieve a certain goal. The mind can be trained to do this easy enough the threshold for pain increases with exposure BUT this is the extreme and should be reserved for extremes.
                                As grandpa Harvey always told me
                                "Bull strength and ignorence will only get you so far"

                                Grace Yllana <yllanagr@...> wrote:
                                Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused on the pain issue..

                                Grace

                                sean tremblay <bethjams9@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                When I was in the Army I used to go by the philosophy that "Pain is weakness leaving the body" after having back surgery my wife who's an RN and yoga instructor reminded me "No Sean pain is an indication that something is wrong!"
                                She's smarter than me!

                                Grace Yllana <yllanagr@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations.. .and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary... etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

                                Grace Yllana

                                Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@gmail. com> wrote:
                                Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

                                About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

                                Daniel

                                On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                                Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen
                                 

                                From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
                                Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
                                To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                                 
                                Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.
                                The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 
                                For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.
                                It's all good.
                                Aideen
                                 

                                From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
                                Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
                                To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                                 
                                Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
                                sean

                                aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                                --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
                                <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
                                >
                                > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
                                it's a
                                > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
                                > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
                                > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
                                what
                                > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
                                egoic
                                > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
                                >
                                > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
                                is
                                > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
                                adjust
                                > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
                                foot,
                                > leg, whatever.
                                >
                                > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
                                one
                                > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
                                about
                                > it.
                                >
                                > Thanks,
                                > Aideen
                                >
                                I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
                                problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
                                it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
                                Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
                                could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
                                I'd appreciate some advice.
                                Thanks,
                                Aideen
                                 
                                 

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                                --
                                "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."


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                              • sean tremblay
                                Sure thats true but, bones break, cuts bleed, and the body is subject to physical inury regardless of the state ID, Ego, soul, Super Ego, planes of existence.
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                                  Sure thats true but, bones break, cuts bleed, and the body is subject to physical inury
                                  regardless of the state ID, Ego, soul, Super Ego, planes of existence. A brocken bone needs mending you can check your inner self after the emergency room visit.
                                  A man was shot with a poison arrow
                                  many rushed to pull it out
                                  Before they did the man wanted to know
                                  who shot the arrow
                                  and what was the poison
                                  what kind of fethers made the fletching
                                  The Buddha's lesson
                                  Just pull out the arrow

                                  Grace Yllana <yllanagr@...> wrote:
                                  Thanks...that makes more sense to me now...whether I will ever get to the 2 plane state..I don't know..hopefully it happens with practice.

                                  Grace

                                  medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:
                                  --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, Grace Yllana
                                  <yllanagr@.. .> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position
                                  without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I
                                  do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the
                                  pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it
                                  away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out
                                  from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able
                                  to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the
                                  only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be
                                  the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused
                                  on the pain issue..
                                  >
                                  > Grace
                                  >
                                  Working with intense pain - Ram Dass

                                  "What I've learned from all this is what a delicate
                                  game it is to work with intense pain. Like all
                                  the experiences of an incarnation, pain has to be
                                  experienced fully by the Ego in order to be an
                                  effective learning experience for the Soul, but
                                  plunging in like that locks you into the pain.
                                  The only solution is to be on two planes at once:
                                  you have to enter the pain fully, and yet be in
                                  the Soul level at the same time. That's fierce?
                                  You feel the full intensity of the pain, and at the
                                  same time you transcend it by being in the Witness state.
                                  Pain demands that you establish yourself
                                  simultaneously in Ego and Soul. What an incredible
                                  teacher it is."

                                  From: Still Here by Ram Dass



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