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Sleepy & Hurting

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  • aideenmck
    Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate; it s a constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2 conflicting views in
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 12, 2007
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      Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate; it's a
      constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
      conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
      accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is what
      happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the egoic
      mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.

      Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness is
      pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to adjust
      my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the foot,
      leg, whatever.

      It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't one
      thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say about
      it.

      Thanks,
      Aideen
    • M.V.T. DHANANJEYAN
      ... it s a ... what ... egoic ... is ... adjust ... foot, ... one ... about ... Dear Aideen It is not a great mistake or harm when you pass thro sleeping or
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 12, 2007
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        --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "aideenmck"
        <aideenmck@...> wrote:
        >
        > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
        it's a
        > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
        > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
        > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
        what
        > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
        egoic
        > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
        >
        > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
        is
        > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
        adjust
        > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
        foot,
        > leg, whatever.
        >
        > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
        one
        > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
        about
        > it.
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Aideen
        >

        Dear Aideen

        It is not a great mistake or harm when you pass thro sleeping
        or sleeping condition at the time of doing meditation. Your body and
        soul may be tired. Body and soul has very good relation. So, only
        easy way sleep well. Then do meditation. Avoid heavy food or food at
        the (near) time of doing meditation. Empty stomach is highly
        preferable.

        Higly, well cleared bowl is good for meditaion.
        Airy place is more required.
      • sean tremblay
        Eat when your hungry Sleep when your tired When it rains go inside Love Sean ... it s a ... what ... egoic ... is ... adjust ... foot, ... one ... about ...
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 12, 2007
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          Eat when your hungry
          Sleep when your tired
          When it rains go inside
          Love
          Sean

          "M.V.T. DHANANJEYAN" <dhanmvt1@...> wrote:
          --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, "aideenmck"
          <aideenmck@. ..> wrote:
          >
          > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
          it's a
          > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
          > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
          > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
          what
          > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
          egoic
          > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
          >
          > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
          is
          > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
          adjust
          > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
          foot,
          > leg, whatever.
          >
          > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
          one
          > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
          about
          > it.
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Aideen
          >

          Dear Aideen

          It is not a great mistake or harm when you pass thro sleeping
          or sleeping condition at the time of doing meditation. Your body and
          soul may be tired. Body and soul has very good relation. So, only
          easy way sleep well. Then do meditation. Avoid heavy food or food at
          the (near) time of doing meditation. Empty stomach is highly
          preferable.

          Higly, well cleared bowl is good for meditaion.
          Airy place is more required.



          Got a little couch potato?
          Check out fun summer activities for kids.

        • aideenmck
          ... it s a ... what ... egoic ... is ... adjust ... foot, ... one ... about ... I m still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the problem of
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 15, 2007
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            --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "aideenmck"
            <aideenmck@...> wrote:
            >
            > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
            it's a
            > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
            > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
            > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
            what
            > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
            egoic
            > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
            >
            > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
            is
            > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
            adjust
            > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
            foot,
            > leg, whatever.
            >
            > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
            one
            > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
            about
            > it.
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Aideen
            >
            I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
            problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
            it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
            Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
            could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
            I'd appreciate some advice.
            Thanks,
            Aideen
          • sean tremblay
            Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system. In the mean time take a break from meditation. Get
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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              Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
              sean

              aideenmck <aideenmck@...> wrote:
              --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, "aideenmck"
              <aideenmck@. ..> wrote:
              >
              > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
              it's a
              > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
              > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
              > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
              what
              > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
              egoic
              > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
              >
              > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
              is
              > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
              adjust
              > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
              foot,
              > leg, whatever.
              >
              > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
              one
              > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
              about
              > it.
              >
              > Thanks,
              > Aideen
              >
              I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
              problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
              it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
              Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
              could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
              I'd appreciate some advice.
              Thanks,
              Aideen



              Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
              Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

            • medit8ionsociety
              ... even something in the nervous system. In the mean time take a break from meditation. Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay
                <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                >
                > Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or
                even something in the nervous system. In the mean time take a break
                from meditation. Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after
                dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
                > sean
                >
                Dear Aideen,
                I totally agree with Sean's suggestion that you see
                your physician. Also, I do have several other things
                to add and that partially they can be found in the article
                on our web site titled "Visualization of Cellular Healing"
                (particularly about pain in part #8), as copied below and at
                http://www.meditationsociety.com/week29.html
                Additionally, I want to remind you that virtually everything
                that happens in your life can be a pointer to you to look
                within and analyze "Who is this happening to?". Not knowing
                this is the real pain in our heart. And when you are not
                enquiring into "Who am I?", simply silently
                witnessing your life as it takes place is what I
                suggest is the most beneficial (and truly meditative)
                thing you can do for your Self. Witness your life
                as it takes place in a detached manner. Your body
                is ever changing and sometimes there will be pain and at
                other times there will be good feelings. What will
                remain always available is to be attentive to what
                the senses receive and send out, what the emotions
                are feeling, and what thoughts are flying by. And do this
                without commenting in any way. Shut up the inner
                chatterer. By positioning your Self in the Witness mode,
                whether you are sitting in meditation or doing your
                income producing job, or any other action, you will have the
                potential to experience very insightful realizations.
                This will be true if you are going through pleasure
                or pain, sadness or joy,or any other of the dualities
                of life. The inner Witness is your real Self and
                knowing It without conditional reactivity to your mood
                swings, your thought patterns, or your physical
                sensation changes... frees you from the illusion
                that duality chains you to, and that is that
                you are this "separate from the rest of creation
                entity". This transcendent perspective is the
                key to freedom from the situation that most people
                find themselves in, and that can be described as one
                where they are constantly trying to fulfill a series
                of ever changing desires that will comfort their
                body, mind, and/or emotions. And they never do get
                fulfilled. One desire is simply replaced with another.
                Life then is a circle of frustrating suffering involved
                in chasing after one gold ring after another. But the
                person meditating with stability in their dispassionate
                awareness has an open the door to always being in a
                state that is evolving in consciousness, and is not
                suffering from trying to reactively feed the voracious
                desire appetite of a fearful ego. As the cliche goes
                "Nice work if you can get it!". In any event, I
                know that you are really trying to be a vehicle
                for all good to flow through you and I am sure
                that this will happen. Be patient and persevere.
                I wish you well.
                Peace and blessings,
                Bob

                Visualization of Cellular Healing
                When you go to a doctor, s/he prescribes a medication for you to take,
                or a treatment you will undergo, your body starts the healing process
                before the medicine is in your system or the exercise or surgical
                procedure has taken place. For most people, just seeing a doctor gives
                confidence that healing will occur. Depending on the patient's
                cultural background, this is true whether the physician is a
                neurosurgeon at the Mayo Clinic or a tribal witch doctor. This is
                attributable to an extraordinary healing ability of the body by a
                process known as the placebo effect. What happens is that healing
                starts when you believe it will occur. Your mind buys into it and your
                body makes it happen. The great physician and humanitarian, Dr. Albert
                Schweitzer, gives us this insight - "The witch doctor succeeds for the
                same reason all the rest of us (medical doctors) succeed. Each patient
                carries his own doctor inside himself. They come to us not knowing
                that truth. We are at our best when we give the doctor who resides
                within each patient a chance to go to work."

                Our body is a fantastic chemical factory that is capable of seemingly
                unbelievable things. For instance, there is the case of a 95-pound
                woman lifting up a two-ton car to save the life of her child who was
                trapped under its weight. This was due to a gigantic adrenaline
                release. As impressive a display of adaptability to a need this is,
                our body is capable of doing even more seemingly miraculous feats.
                Perhaps the most impressive of all is its' ability to heal itself - of
                anything!

                There are several methods dealing with visualizing healing
                meditatively at the cellular level. To begin any of them, use the
                position, breathing pattern, physical relaxing technique, and emptying
                of mental and emotional reactivity that you have found best prepares
                you to fill with the object of your meditation. Try each of these ways
                separately, and try combining them until your healing has occurred.
                This may take mere seconds, or decades, as has whatever happened to
                you that now needs a change back to wellness.

                1. In your minds eye, see aberrant or inflamed cells changing into
                healthy cells. If there is a damaged or corrupted area within the
                cells, visualize them changing and becoming free from injury. See your
                whole body becoming pure. Visualize yourself as perfectly healthy.

                2. There are cells within your body that act as protectors and
                actually attack and kill damaging invader cells. See these warrior
                cells destroy those cells that could cause you injury. See your whole
                body becoming pure. Visualize yourself as perfectly healthy.

                3. There are cells within your body that eat threatening cells.
                See them devour the harm causing structures. See your whole body
                becoming pure. Visualize yourself as perfectly healthy.

                4. Visualize groups of healthy cells combining to replace any
                damaged areas of your body. For instance, if you have suffered a
                broken bone, see the cells come together in healing, bonding together
                to reform a complete structure. Visualize the bone as perfectly healthy.

                5. Visualize healing energy filling you. The energy can be felt to
                originate from a higher power that gifts you with healing. See this
                holy energy filling and changing your cellular structure to a perfect
                condition. Watch as the specific organ, body system, or part heals.
                See your whole body becoming pure. Visualize yourself as perfectly
                healthy.

                6. Visualize yourself standing, sitting, or prostrating in front
                of your personal deity. See your deity heal you by touch. See your
                deity heal you by sending divine energy to you. See your deity end
                your suffering. See your whole body becoming pure. Visualize yourself
                as perfectly healthy.

                7. Get an anatomy book and study the body structure you want
                healing to take place in. Look at how the part appears when in a state
                of perfection. When doing a healing visualization meditation, see your
                body part as being in this state of perfection.

                8. If you are suffering from pain, see in your minds eye, as
                clearly as possible, the nerve endings that are in the specific area
                of your discomfort, or all of the nerve endings in your entire body.
                With every inhalation, feel and visualize healing air flowing from a
                higher power and enter you and fill your lungs. See your red blood
                cells absorb the air through the walls of your lungs and flow through
                your arteries spreading healing oxygen to every cell in your body.
                Witness the inflamed nerve endings become soothed and witness your
                body start to glow with wellbeing and serenity.

                Perhaps the most important suggestion of all is to sincerely want the
                healing to take place and believe that it will occur. The Meditation
                Society of America doesn't favor one religion over another, or even
                suggest that one has to believe in God at all for the benefits of
                meditation to help you, but we do sometimes quote from religious
                sources. In this case, we cite the Bible - Mark 11:24 "...what things
                ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall
                have them."

                This 2000-year-old statement is in perfect accord with the most
                cutting edge scientific and medical understanding of the 21st century.
                To quote Dr. Herbert Benson of the Harvard Medical School, "We know
                that belief can lead to healing or at least improvement in 50 percent
                to 90 percent of diseases, including asthma, angina pectoris, and skin
                rashes, many forms of pain, rheumatoid arthritis, congestive heart
                failure. They're all influenced by belief. We in medicine have made
                fun of belief by calling it the "placebo effect," or insisting that
                "It's all in your head." Yet, belief is one of the most powerful
                healing tools we have in our therapeutic arsenal."
              • Aideen McKenna
                Thanks to Sean & Bob. Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben s post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                  Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben’s post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.

                  The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it’s arthritis, & there are times when it’s more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 

                  For the present, I’ll make dish-washing my meditation & I’ll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.

                  It’s all good.

                  Aideen

                   


                  From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
                  Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
                  To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

                   

                  Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.

                  sean

                  aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:

                  --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, "aideenmck"
                  <aideenmck@. ..> wrote:
                  >
                  > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
                  it's a
                  > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
                  > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
                  > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
                  what
                  > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
                  egoic
                  > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
                  >
                  > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
                  is
                  > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
                  adjust
                  > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
                  foot,
                  > leg, whatever.
                  >
                  > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
                  one
                  > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
                  about
                  > it.
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  > Aideen
                  >
                  I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
                  problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
                  it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
                  Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
                  could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
                  I'd appreciate some advice.
                  Thanks,
                  Aideen

                   

                   


                  Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                  Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

                • Aideen McKenna
                  Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly. --Aideen _____ From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                    Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen

                     


                    From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
                    Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
                    To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

                     

                    Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben’s post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.

                    The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it’s arthritis, & there are times when it’s more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 

                    For the present, I’ll make dish-washing my meditation & I’ll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.

                    It’s all good.

                    Aideen

                     


                    From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com ] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
                    Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
                    To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

                     

                    Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.

                    sean

                    aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:

                    --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, "aideenmck"
                    <aideenmck@. ..> wrote:
                    >
                    > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
                    it's a
                    > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
                    > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
                    > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
                    what
                    > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
                    egoic
                    > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
                    >
                    > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
                    is
                    > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
                    adjust
                    > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
                    foot,
                    > leg, whatever.
                    >
                    > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
                    one
                    > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
                    about
                    > it.
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    > Aideen
                    >
                    I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
                    problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
                    it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
                    Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
                    could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
                    I'd appreciate some advice.
                    Thanks,
                    Aideen

                     

                     


                    Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                    Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.

                  • Daniel Bonekeeper
                    Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can t sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                      Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

                      About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

                      Daniel

                      On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@...> wrote:

                      Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen

                       


                      From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
                      Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
                      To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

                       

                      Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.

                      The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 

                      For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.

                      It's all good.

                      Aideen

                       


                      From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
                      Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
                      To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

                       

                      Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.

                      sean

                      aideenmck <aideenmck@...> wrote:

                      --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com , "aideenmck"
                      <aideenmck@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
                      it's a
                      > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
                      > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
                      > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
                      what
                      > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
                      egoic
                      > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
                      >
                      > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
                      is
                      > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
                      adjust
                      > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
                      foot,
                      > leg, whatever.
                      >
                      > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
                      one
                      > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
                      about
                      > it.
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      > Aideen
                      >
                      I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
                      problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
                      it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
                      Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
                      could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
                      I'd appreciate some advice.
                      Thanks,
                      Aideen

                       

                       


                      Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                      Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.




                      --
                      "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."
                    • Grace Yllana
                      Hello all...I m confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to observe pain, discomforts and other sensations...and realize
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                        Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations...and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary...etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

                        Grace Yllana

                        Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@...> wrote:
                        Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

                        About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

                        Daniel

                        On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                        Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen
                         

                        From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
                        Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
                        To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                         
                        Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.
                        The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 
                        For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.
                        It's all good.
                        Aideen
                         

                        From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
                        Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
                        To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                         
                        Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
                        sean

                        aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                        --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
                        <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
                        >
                        > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
                        it's a
                        > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
                        > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
                        > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
                        what
                        > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
                        egoic
                        > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
                        >
                        > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
                        is
                        > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
                        adjust
                        > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
                        foot,
                        > leg, whatever.
                        >
                        > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
                        one
                        > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
                        about
                        > it.
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        > Aideen
                        >
                        I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
                        problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
                        it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
                        Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
                        could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
                        I'd appreciate some advice.
                        Thanks,
                        Aideen
                         
                         

                        Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                        Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.



                        --
                        "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."


                        Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

                      • Aideen McKenna
                        Exactly. That s what confuses me, too. ---Aideen _____ From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com]
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                          Exactly.  That’s what confuses me, too.  ---Aideen

                           

                           


                          From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com [mailto: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Grace Yllana
                          Sent: July 16, 2007 10:52 AM
                          To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

                           

                          Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations.. .and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary... etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

                          Grace Yllana

                          Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@gmail. com> wrote:

                          Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

                          About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

                          Daniel

                          On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:

                          Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen

                           


                          From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
                          Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
                          To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

                           

                          Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.

                          The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 

                          For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.

                          It's all good.

                          Aideen

                           


                          From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
                          Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
                          To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America ] Re: Sleepy & Hurting

                           

                          Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.

                          sean

                          aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:

                          --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
                          <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
                          >
                          > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
                          it's a
                          > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
                          > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
                          > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
                          what
                          > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
                          egoic
                          > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
                          >
                          > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
                          is
                          > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
                          adjust
                          > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
                          foot,
                          > leg, whatever.
                          >
                          > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
                          one
                          > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
                          about
                          > it.
                          >
                          > Thanks,
                          > Aideen
                          >
                          I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
                          problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
                          it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
                          Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
                          could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
                          I'd appreciate some advice.
                          Thanks,
                          Aideen

                           

                           


                          Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                          Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.




                          --
                          "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."

                           

                           


                          Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

                        • sean tremblay
                          When I was in the Army I used to go by the philosophy that Pain is weakness leaving the body after having back surgery my wife who s an RN and yoga
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                            When I was in the Army I used to go by the philosophy that "Pain is weakness leaving the body" after having back surgery my wife who's an RN and yoga instructor reminded me "No Sean pain is an indication that something is wrong!"
                            She's smarter than me!

                            Grace Yllana <yllanagr@...> wrote:
                            Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations.. .and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary... etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

                            Grace Yllana

                            Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@gmail. com> wrote:
                            Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

                            About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

                            Daniel

                            On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                            Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen
                             

                            From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
                            Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
                            To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                             
                            Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.
                            The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 
                            For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.
                            It's all good.
                            Aideen
                             

                            From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
                            Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
                            To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                             
                            Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
                            sean

                            aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                            --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
                            <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
                            >
                            > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
                            it's a
                            > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
                            > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
                            > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
                            what
                            > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
                            egoic
                            > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
                            >
                            > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
                            is
                            > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
                            adjust
                            > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
                            foot,
                            > leg, whatever.
                            >
                            > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
                            one
                            > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
                            about
                            > it.
                            >
                            > Thanks,
                            > Aideen
                            >
                            I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
                            problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
                            it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
                            Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
                            could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
                            I'd appreciate some advice.
                            Thanks,
                            Aideen
                             
                             

                            Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                            Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.



                            --
                            "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."


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                            Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

                          • Grace Yllana
                            Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I do know that with
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                              Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused on the pain issue..

                              Grace

                              sean tremblay <bethjams9@...> wrote:
                              When I was in the Army I used to go by the philosophy that "Pain is weakness leaving the body" after having back surgery my wife who's an RN and yoga instructor reminded me "No Sean pain is an indication that something is wrong!"
                              She's smarter than me!

                              Grace Yllana <yllanagr@yahoo. com> wrote:
                              Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations.. .and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary... etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

                              Grace Yllana

                              Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@gmail. com> wrote:
                              Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

                              About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

                              Daniel

                              On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                              Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen
                               

                              From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
                              Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
                              To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                               
                              Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.
                              The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 
                              For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.
                              It's all good.
                              Aideen
                               

                              From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
                              Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
                              To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                               
                              Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
                              sean

                              aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                              --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
                              <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
                              >
                              > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
                              it's a
                              > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
                              > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
                              > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
                              what
                              > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
                              egoic
                              > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
                              >
                              > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
                              is
                              > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
                              adjust
                              > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
                              foot,
                              > leg, whatever.
                              >
                              > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
                              one
                              > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
                              about
                              > it.
                              >
                              > Thanks,
                              > Aideen
                              >
                              I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
                              problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
                              it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
                              Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
                              could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
                              I'd appreciate some advice.
                              Thanks,
                              Aideen
                               
                               

                              Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
                              Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.



                              --
                              "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."


                              Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.


                              Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.


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                              Check out fun summer activities for kids.

                            • medit8ionsociety
                              ... without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the pain and
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                                --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Grace Yllana
                                <yllanagr@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position
                                without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I
                                do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the
                                pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it
                                away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out
                                from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able
                                to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the
                                only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be
                                the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused
                                on the pain issue..
                                >
                                > Grace
                                >
                                Working with intense pain - Ram Dass

                                "What I've learned from all this is what a delicate
                                game it is to work with intense pain. Like all
                                the experiences of an incarnation, pain has to be
                                experienced fully by the Ego in order to be an
                                effective learning experience for the Soul, but
                                plunging in like that locks you into the pain.
                                The only solution is to be on two planes at once:
                                you have to enter the pain fully, and yet be in
                                the Soul level at the same time. That's fierce?
                                You feel the full intensity of the pain, and at the
                                same time you transcend it by being in the Witness state.
                                Pain demands that you establish yourself
                                simultaneously in Ego and Soul. What an incredible
                                teacher it is."

                                From: Still Here by Ram Dass
                              • Grace Yllana
                                Thanks...that makes more sense to me now...whether I will ever get to the 2 plane state..I don t know..hopefully it happens with practice. Grace
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Thanks...that makes more sense to me now...whether I will ever get to the 2 plane state..I don't know..hopefully it happens with practice.

                                  Grace

                                  medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                  --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, Grace Yllana
                                  <yllanagr@.. .> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position
                                  without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I
                                  do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the
                                  pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it
                                  away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out
                                  from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able
                                  to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the
                                  only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be
                                  the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused
                                  on the pain issue..
                                  >
                                  > Grace
                                  >
                                  Working with intense pain - Ram Dass

                                  "What I've learned from all this is what a delicate
                                  game it is to work with intense pain. Like all
                                  the experiences of an incarnation, pain has to be
                                  experienced fully by the Ego in order to be an
                                  effective learning experience for the Soul, but
                                  plunging in like that locks you into the pain.
                                  The only solution is to be on two planes at once:
                                  you have to enter the pain fully, and yet be in
                                  the Soul level at the same time. That's fierce?
                                  You feel the full intensity of the pain, and at the
                                  same time you transcend it by being in the Witness state.
                                  Pain demands that you establish yourself
                                  simultaneously in Ego and Soul. What an incredible
                                  teacher it is."

                                  From: Still Here by Ram Dass



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                                • sean tremblay
                                  The Idea of observing the pain is restricted to the level of minor discomfort. IF pain is continual and extreme that is an indication that there is something
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
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                                    The Idea of observing the pain is restricted to the level of minor discomfort. IF pain is continual and extreme that is an indication that there is something wrong biologicaly, remember there is a difference in transending suffering and enduring it.  The practice of Hatha Yoga is to create a mind body connection through fittness and strength as well as flexibility the true purpose of this yoga is to prepare the body for meditation, it frees the mind from the aches and pains a healthy body enables the meditator to focus on meditation rather than getting beyond pain.  In my career I have had to push many physical limits, mentaly override physical pain and injury to achieve a certain goal. The mind can be trained to do this easy enough the threshold for pain increases with exposure BUT this is the extreme and should be reserved for extremes.
                                    As grandpa Harvey always told me
                                    "Bull strength and ignorence will only get you so far"

                                    Grace Yllana <yllanagr@...> wrote:
                                    Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused on the pain issue..

                                    Grace

                                    sean tremblay <bethjams9@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                    When I was in the Army I used to go by the philosophy that "Pain is weakness leaving the body" after having back surgery my wife who's an RN and yoga instructor reminded me "No Sean pain is an indication that something is wrong!"
                                    She's smarter than me!

                                    Grace Yllana <yllanagr@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                    Hello all...I'm confused about the pain issue...I heard that part of meditation is to be able to "observe" pain, discomforts and other sensations.. .and realize they have a shelf life..or are temporary... etc...what is the word on pain..not from arthritis or any ailment...the pain and discomfort that sitting in one position for a long time produce??

                                    Grace Yllana

                                    Daniel Bonekeeper <bonekeeper@gmail. com> wrote:
                                    Aideen, have you tried to sleep as much as you could, to the point where you just can't sleep anymore ? Try this. Sleep until you are fully rested and just can't sleep anymore, even if you tried. Then, try to meditate, and we'll see.

                                    About the pain, I can't tell much... personally I like to meditate in an reclinable armchair, very confortable, so it's easy to just forget the body.

                                    Daniel

                                    On 7/16/07, Aideen McKenna <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                                    Errata: I exercise regularly, not irregularly.  --Aideen
                                     

                                    From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Aideen McKenna
                                    Sent: July 16, 2007 9:17 AM
                                    To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                                     
                                    Thanks to Sean & Bob.  Thanks also to the people who responded to Ben's post, because what they said reminded me that here are other ways of meditating besides sitting on a zafu.
                                    The cause of my painful joints is no mystery – it's arthritis, & there are times when it's more painful than other times.  I exercise irregularly & take long daily walks. 
                                    For the present, I'll make dish-washing my meditation & I'll position myself as Witness to the pain in my hands, which is less frightful than hip-joint pain.
                                    It's all good.
                                    Aideen
                                     

                                    From: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean tremblay
                                    Sent: July 16, 2007 3:59 AM
                                    To: meditationsocietyof america@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] Re: Sleepy & Hurting
                                     
                                    Aideen: you may need to see a doctor, it could be circulatory or even something in the nervous system.  In the mean time take a break from meditation.  Get plenty of rest and exercise especialy after dinner take a long walk if it's safe to do so.
                                    sean

                                    aideenmck <aideenmck@telus. net> wrote:
                                    --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com , "aideenmck"
                                    <aideenmck@.. .> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Lately I tend to fall asleep every time I sit down to meditate;
                                    it's a
                                    > constant battle to remain awake. Regarding this matter, I find 2
                                    > conflicting views in books & articles about meditation. One is to
                                    > accept that what's needed at that time is sleep, so if sleep is
                                    what
                                    > happens, so be it. The other is to regard the sleepiness as the
                                    egoic
                                    > mind, fearful of annihilation, setting up a hindrance.
                                    >
                                    > Another problem which arose about the same time as the sleepiness
                                    is
                                    > pain. Again, I read conflicting advice about whether or not to
                                    adjust
                                    > my position. Be one with the excruciating pain, or shift the
                                    foot,
                                    > leg, whatever.
                                    >
                                    > It's a bad patch I'm going through, I guess, because if it isn't
                                    one
                                    > thing, it's the other. I'd like to hear what anybody has to say
                                    about
                                    > it.
                                    >
                                    > Thanks,
                                    > Aideen
                                    >
                                    I'm still wondering whether anybody has words of wisdom about the
                                    problem of pain to which I referred. Does one go into the pain, as
                                    it were, remaining physically still? Or move to alleviate it?
                                    Lately, there's always leg pain when I sit down to meditate, so I
                                    could be fidgeting constantly. I don't know what to do about this.
                                    I'd appreciate some advice.
                                    Thanks,
                                    Aideen
                                     
                                     

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                                    --
                                    "If you are still asking for the result, then a very subtle effort will continuously be there. You will not be just sitting; you cannot just sit if there are any desires. The desire will be a subtle movement in you, and the movement will continue. You may be sitting like a stone or like a buddha, but still within the stone will be moving. Desire is movement."


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                                  • sean tremblay
                                    Sure thats true but, bones break, cuts bleed, and the body is subject to physical inury regardless of the state ID, Ego, soul, Super Ego, planes of existence.
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Jul 16, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Sure thats true but, bones break, cuts bleed, and the body is subject to physical inury
                                      regardless of the state ID, Ego, soul, Super Ego, planes of existence. A brocken bone needs mending you can check your inner self after the emergency room visit.
                                      A man was shot with a poison arrow
                                      many rushed to pull it out
                                      Before they did the man wanted to know
                                      who shot the arrow
                                      and what was the poison
                                      what kind of fethers made the fletching
                                      The Buddha's lesson
                                      Just pull out the arrow

                                      Grace Yllana <yllanagr@...> wrote:
                                      Thanks...that makes more sense to me now...whether I will ever get to the 2 plane state..I don't know..hopefully it happens with practice.

                                      Grace

                                      medit8ionsociety <no_reply@yahoogroup s.com> wrote:
                                      --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, Grace Yllana
                                      <yllanagr@.. .> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Does that mean that when the teacher...says locked in one position
                                      without moving...we should move and not practice observing the pain? I
                                      do know that with practice..I got better and better at observing the
                                      pain and watching it come and go...and one time actually "think" it
                                      away..like self hypnosis...but during meditation retreat..I passed out
                                      from trying to "observe" the pain..I was hyperventilating to be able
                                      to keep in the locked position we were told to keep...and I was the
                                      only one who was going to move after 2 hours and did not want to be
                                      the one..result I passed out and they took me to ER..so still confused
                                      on the pain issue..
                                      >
                                      > Grace
                                      >
                                      Working with intense pain - Ram Dass

                                      "What I've learned from all this is what a delicate
                                      game it is to work with intense pain. Like all
                                      the experiences of an incarnation, pain has to be
                                      experienced fully by the Ego in order to be an
                                      effective learning experience for the Soul, but
                                      plunging in like that locks you into the pain.
                                      The only solution is to be on two planes at once:
                                      you have to enter the pain fully, and yet be in
                                      the Soul level at the same time. That's fierce?
                                      You feel the full intensity of the pain, and at the
                                      same time you transcend it by being in the Witness state.
                                      Pain demands that you establish yourself
                                      simultaneously in Ego and Soul. What an incredible
                                      teacher it is."

                                      From: Still Here by Ram Dass



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